Hey everyone,
I am looking for some help in refining my most recent project. I really enjoy fast paced, offensive teams and non-meta types, so the concept of a Grass Sun team intrigued me. However, I feel I've done all I can to maximize my team's potential without some outside help, so I am asking for some assistance in finalizing my EV spreads and movesets to best synergize my mons. Here is the team:
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Weather Ball
- Growth
Venusaur is the focal point of my team, and the inspiration for the whole concept. He is chlorophyll sweeper #1 and does his job very well. His spread is pretty standard, modest nature, max SpA and Spe with the leftovers in SpD, and a Life Orb to better pew pew. Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb for STAB, Weather Ball to deal with pesky Steel types and Grass mirror match-ups, and Growth for maximum sweeping potential. Pretty standard Sun Venusaur spread, so not much to say here.
Shiftry @ Black Glasses
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
Shiftry is Chlorophyll sweeper #2. Also fills his role very well. Dark typing helps him deal with Psychic mons that could otherwise give Venusaur trouble. Adamant nature with max Atk and Spe with the remainder in SpD, and Black Glasses to boost his STAB. Knock Off is his hardest hitting STAB while doubling as a useful utility move, while Sucker Punch lets him beat faster revenge kills (particularly useful when Sun runs out during his sweep, or if I have to use him before I can set Sun to deal with a threat). Swords Dance is used to on a predicted switch or after a Substitute to make a sweep more likely or allow me to spam Sucker Punch more freely. Substitute helps find opportunities to set up while avoiding status, as well. It kind of sucks to only carry Dark attacks, but I honestly haven't been in many situations where that was a deciding factor. Especially after a Swords Dance, I find his pure damage to make up for his lack of coverage. After all, his main role is to clear Psychic types for Venusaur and he does that very well. Furthermore, I find Swords Dance to be crucial in boosting his attack enough to sweep successfully, and Substitute to be a big reason why he's able to get a boost off in the first place (while also taking some pressure off Sucker Punch mind games). So in that respect, it's hard to justify getting rid of either.
Whimsicott @ Heat Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Sunny Day
- Defog
- Memento
Whimsicott is my primary Sunny Day user, so naturally I run Heat Rock to maximize Sun uptime. I chose to maximize physical bulk to allow more opportunities to set up weather, since 3/4 of my moves are given priority through Prankster anyway so speed is not as much of a concern. 248 HP EVs keep my HP an odd number, and the remaining 8 are put into SpA. Moonblast as my one attack to deal with Dragon, Dark, and Fighting types such as Hydreigon and Urshifu who can otherwise prove problematic. Sunny Day is an obvious choice, and against threatening attackers I can then Memento to force a switch and give either Venusaur or Shiftry a free turn to boost. While this strat is certainly effective, it is also situational and so I sometimes wonder how useful it is overall. Defog in the last slot as a tech because I found my team completely crippled by webs. I ran Taunt briefly, but Mental Herb Shuckle could still get webs out and after that I couldn't recuperate against all the Bug STAB. Before running into that issue, I ran Substitute in this slot and really enjoyed using it to scout moves, buy time, or just cause general shenanigans. Unfortunately, with how much webs really cripple my team, I felt the need to include someone who could clear them.
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Psychic
- Earth Power
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
Celebi is my SpD mirror to Whimsicott while maintaining my offensive theme. The EV spreads were just copied from Showdown, so they could use some tweaking I'm sure. 248 HP EVs keep HP odd for switching into hazards, 36 Spe EVs let me outspeed Adamant Bisharp and other uninvested base 100 speed mons, but again I'm sure there is a better way to spend these points. The rest is put into SpD to maximize Special bulk, with Leftovers for passive recovery. Psychic for a primary STAB attack and Earth Power for coverage against Steel and Fire types (the latter being particularly problematic as a Sun Grass team). U-Turn lets me pivot while maintaining momentum, and Stealth Rock for chip damage. I originally ran Recover on this set instead of Earth Power, but found it to be too passive and switching into Celebi in those cases would often lose me momentum. Another thing I've been thinking is building Celebi more for physical bulk and Whimsicott more for special bulk, because it seems like physical Steel types are everywhere, but I'm not sure how effective this would be - especially with the prominence of physical U-Turn users. I have also considered taking out U-Turn for Giga Drain for additional attacking options and a minor form of recovery.
Virizion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Sunny Day
Virizion is my primary revenge killer outside of sun, as well as my backup Sunny Day user in a pinch. This set is pretty standard, Choice Scarf for max Speed and revenge killing prowess, and a Jolly nature with max Atk and Spe EVs and the remainder in SpD. Close Combat is my hard hitting STAB and the ideal move to be locked into. Megahorn as additional coverage to help deal with Dark and Psychic types, although certainly the most situational of my coverage moves. As such, I have been debating replacing it with Smart Strike although I'm unsure how much value this would really add. Stone Edge is invaluable in handling Fire and Bug types that otherwise threaten a lot of my team - so long as it hits. Sunny Day is run for emergencies in case Whimsicott goes down.
Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Superpower
-Earthquake High Horsepower
- U-turn
Rillaboom is my final mon. I wanted to include him because I felt like the Grass damage boost of Grassy Terrain synergized well with my hyper offensive theme, although to harken back to my Whimsicott spread and the need for a spinner/defogger I have been considering replacing Rillaboom with Dhelmise for Rapid Spin. However, at the moment I am fairly happy with Rillaboom as terrain control with the ability to hit hard and even revenge kill with Grassy Glide. Rillaboom runs Choice Band with max Atk and Spe EVs and a Jolly nature to act as a wallbreaker. I chose Grassy Glide over Wood Hammer because of the priority in Grassy Terrain (which Rillaboom can generally rely on having up) as well as the lack of recoil damage. It also felt like in most situations where I needed a hard hitting ability to break a wall, that wall resisted Grass anyway so even with Wood Hammer I'd be using my other coverage options in those situations. Rillaboom runs Superpower to help break Steel types, and Earthquake for additional coverage against Steels as well as a super effective hit against Fire types. U-Turn helps me pivot out after setting up Grassy Terrain. This moveset is probably the one most in need of review - I honestly feel like I don't get much value out of Superpower and would even consider dropping U-Turn, as well (although it is great vs. Psychic and Dark teams). I have considered running a couple different items to avoid being Choice-locked, such as Assault Vest, but I fear the drop in power is too much.
Overall, my biggest questions revolve around the EV spreads for Whimsicott and Celebi, certain coverage options on different mons (Celebi, Rillaboom, Virizion), the best way to include Defog or Rapid Spin, and any major threats to my team that may be unaccounted for. Thanks for taking the time to review my team, and please let me know what you think!
Edit: Edited to update Rillaboom's ground coverage.
I am looking for some help in refining my most recent project. I really enjoy fast paced, offensive teams and non-meta types, so the concept of a Grass Sun team intrigued me. However, I feel I've done all I can to maximize my team's potential without some outside help, so I am asking for some assistance in finalizing my EV spreads and movesets to best synergize my mons. Here is the team:
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Weather Ball
- Growth
Venusaur is the focal point of my team, and the inspiration for the whole concept. He is chlorophyll sweeper #1 and does his job very well. His spread is pretty standard, modest nature, max SpA and Spe with the leftovers in SpD, and a Life Orb to better pew pew. Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb for STAB, Weather Ball to deal with pesky Steel types and Grass mirror match-ups, and Growth for maximum sweeping potential. Pretty standard Sun Venusaur spread, so not much to say here.
Shiftry @ Black Glasses
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
Shiftry is Chlorophyll sweeper #2. Also fills his role very well. Dark typing helps him deal with Psychic mons that could otherwise give Venusaur trouble. Adamant nature with max Atk and Spe with the remainder in SpD, and Black Glasses to boost his STAB. Knock Off is his hardest hitting STAB while doubling as a useful utility move, while Sucker Punch lets him beat faster revenge kills (particularly useful when Sun runs out during his sweep, or if I have to use him before I can set Sun to deal with a threat). Swords Dance is used to on a predicted switch or after a Substitute to make a sweep more likely or allow me to spam Sucker Punch more freely. Substitute helps find opportunities to set up while avoiding status, as well. It kind of sucks to only carry Dark attacks, but I honestly haven't been in many situations where that was a deciding factor. Especially after a Swords Dance, I find his pure damage to make up for his lack of coverage. After all, his main role is to clear Psychic types for Venusaur and he does that very well. Furthermore, I find Swords Dance to be crucial in boosting his attack enough to sweep successfully, and Substitute to be a big reason why he's able to get a boost off in the first place (while also taking some pressure off Sucker Punch mind games). So in that respect, it's hard to justify getting rid of either.
Whimsicott @ Heat Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Sunny Day
- Defog
- Memento
Whimsicott is my primary Sunny Day user, so naturally I run Heat Rock to maximize Sun uptime. I chose to maximize physical bulk to allow more opportunities to set up weather, since 3/4 of my moves are given priority through Prankster anyway so speed is not as much of a concern. 248 HP EVs keep my HP an odd number, and the remaining 8 are put into SpA. Moonblast as my one attack to deal with Dragon, Dark, and Fighting types such as Hydreigon and Urshifu who can otherwise prove problematic. Sunny Day is an obvious choice, and against threatening attackers I can then Memento to force a switch and give either Venusaur or Shiftry a free turn to boost. While this strat is certainly effective, it is also situational and so I sometimes wonder how useful it is overall. Defog in the last slot as a tech because I found my team completely crippled by webs. I ran Taunt briefly, but Mental Herb Shuckle could still get webs out and after that I couldn't recuperate against all the Bug STAB. Before running into that issue, I ran Substitute in this slot and really enjoyed using it to scout moves, buy time, or just cause general shenanigans. Unfortunately, with how much webs really cripple my team, I felt the need to include someone who could clear them.
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Psychic
- Earth Power
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
Celebi is my SpD mirror to Whimsicott while maintaining my offensive theme. The EV spreads were just copied from Showdown, so they could use some tweaking I'm sure. 248 HP EVs keep HP odd for switching into hazards, 36 Spe EVs let me outspeed Adamant Bisharp and other uninvested base 100 speed mons, but again I'm sure there is a better way to spend these points. The rest is put into SpD to maximize Special bulk, with Leftovers for passive recovery. Psychic for a primary STAB attack and Earth Power for coverage against Steel and Fire types (the latter being particularly problematic as a Sun Grass team). U-Turn lets me pivot while maintaining momentum, and Stealth Rock for chip damage. I originally ran Recover on this set instead of Earth Power, but found it to be too passive and switching into Celebi in those cases would often lose me momentum. Another thing I've been thinking is building Celebi more for physical bulk and Whimsicott more for special bulk, because it seems like physical Steel types are everywhere, but I'm not sure how effective this would be - especially with the prominence of physical U-Turn users. I have also considered taking out U-Turn for Giga Drain for additional attacking options and a minor form of recovery.
Virizion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Sunny Day
Virizion is my primary revenge killer outside of sun, as well as my backup Sunny Day user in a pinch. This set is pretty standard, Choice Scarf for max Speed and revenge killing prowess, and a Jolly nature with max Atk and Spe EVs and the remainder in SpD. Close Combat is my hard hitting STAB and the ideal move to be locked into. Megahorn as additional coverage to help deal with Dark and Psychic types, although certainly the most situational of my coverage moves. As such, I have been debating replacing it with Smart Strike although I'm unsure how much value this would really add. Stone Edge is invaluable in handling Fire and Bug types that otherwise threaten a lot of my team - so long as it hits. Sunny Day is run for emergencies in case Whimsicott goes down.
Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Superpower
-
- U-turn
Rillaboom is my final mon. I wanted to include him because I felt like the Grass damage boost of Grassy Terrain synergized well with my hyper offensive theme, although to harken back to my Whimsicott spread and the need for a spinner/defogger I have been considering replacing Rillaboom with Dhelmise for Rapid Spin. However, at the moment I am fairly happy with Rillaboom as terrain control with the ability to hit hard and even revenge kill with Grassy Glide. Rillaboom runs Choice Band with max Atk and Spe EVs and a Jolly nature to act as a wallbreaker. I chose Grassy Glide over Wood Hammer because of the priority in Grassy Terrain (which Rillaboom can generally rely on having up) as well as the lack of recoil damage. It also felt like in most situations where I needed a hard hitting ability to break a wall, that wall resisted Grass anyway so even with Wood Hammer I'd be using my other coverage options in those situations. Rillaboom runs Superpower to help break Steel types, and Earthquake for additional coverage against Steels as well as a super effective hit against Fire types. U-Turn helps me pivot out after setting up Grassy Terrain. This moveset is probably the one most in need of review - I honestly feel like I don't get much value out of Superpower and would even consider dropping U-Turn, as well (although it is great vs. Psychic and Dark teams). I have considered running a couple different items to avoid being Choice-locked, such as Assault Vest, but I fear the drop in power is too much.
Overall, my biggest questions revolve around the EV spreads for Whimsicott and Celebi, certain coverage options on different mons (Celebi, Rillaboom, Virizion), the best way to include Defog or Rapid Spin, and any major threats to my team that may be unaccounted for. Thanks for taking the time to review my team, and please let me know what you think!
Edit: Edited to update Rillaboom's ground coverage.
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