SS OU goodbye shifu - enter the GOON SQUAD (obstagoon balance)

[rcklssoptmsm]

Obstagoon has always been one of my favorite mons since the beginning of SS, but it struggled to make waves, and when combined with the presence of Urshifu-S (a far superior choice in almost every situation), it never got its chance to shine. However, with the banning of Urshifu-S, I think it's finally time for the goon and his squad to shine. So w/o further ado, here's my first attempt at an Obstagoon balance team. Small disclaimer - I'm no expert at showdown, and I've been stuck in the mid-ladder (1500-1600) for a few months now, so take all of this with a grain of salt. I have about a 72% winrate after 25 games with this team so far, but I'd like as much input as possible to make it even better :)

The team:

UPDATED Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/31d9d4058f9f167e

Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Obstruct/Switcheroo

The star of the team and a powerful ass wallbreaker. Normally I hate shiny sprites but this guy's is really cool so sue me. He's a pretty textbook guts wallbreaker; facade does absolutely ridiculous amounts of damage to anything that doesn't resist it, and knock off is dumb strong too. Close combat is the best coverage move that I've found, to deal with rocks and steels that resist facade. The last slot is up for debate; I've found obstruct to be way more fun, because it's really great to guarantee the burn on the first turn while getting the defense drop on a mon that tries to pivot out, usually allowing for an OHKO on the next turn. It's also really fun to obstruct a high jump kick from cinderace, nabbing the defense drop and 50% crash damage. However, switcheroo could be a good choice because it could be used to cripple faster mons that switch in that aren't named u-turn cinderace. let me know what you think on this one.

Toxapex @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Haze

The goon's speed tier is above average at best, leaving it very vulnerable to fast fighting types or fast mons that run fighting-type coverage moves (Cinderace, Zapdos, even Barraskewda, etc.). I've found that the pex is a great partner to the goon, allowing it to soak up any of those fighting-type moves and hit em right back with some rocky helmet chip. Max defense investment is mandatory, and the moveset is standard pex; scald for burn spam, toxic spikes for any setup opportunities, recover for obvious reasons, and haze to stop any setup sweepers that might try to dance in pex's face.

Slowking-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 176 SpA / 80 SpD
Calm Nature
- Future Sight
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Scald

The goon also can't really do much to bulky fairies, especially those that are named Primarina and physically defensive Clefable; also, though it's rarely used in OU, a Togekiss on the opposing team is usually gg. So, my best shot at countering these is with AV Slowking, who also soaks up any other special hit that Obstagoon can't take. This is the standard AV set from Smogon; max spdef investment isn't necessary because AV gets its spdef already so high, so the special attack investment allows it to actually do some things with its attacks. Sludge bomb, flamethrower, and scald provide great coverage, and I opted for future sight over psychic because it pairs so well with our next mon.

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot

I was realizing that the team needed a stronger offensive presence, so Cinderace was my answer. Its attacks hit dumb hard, and with future sight from Slowking up, it doesn't need to be afraid of its nemesis, Toxapex, switching in on it. Pyro ball and U-turn are absolutely required, and I have gunk shot on there to hit those pesky fairies that screw Obstagoon over. I also chose sucker punch over something like high jump kick because I found it nice for Dragapult, which this team otherwise struggles with; let me know if you think high jump kick (or something else) would be better though.

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off

The next addition I opted for was support Lando, one of my (and everyone else's) favorite and most versatile mons in the current metagame. Intimidate and rocky helmet is a great combo for switching in on a resisted physical hit, and he's my rock setter of choice. Earthquake to do some damage, u-turn for pivoting, and knock off because knocking off rocky helmets and leftovers that would otherwise limit Obstagoon is very helpful.

Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 144 SpD / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn

The last mon in this team is something I'm not sure about. I used to have a bulky Zapdos here, but I opted for Mandibuzz because it handled 3 mons that absolutely countered my team in almost every other situation - scale shot Garchomp, choice band Rillaboom, and almost any Dragapult. This is a standard set off Smogon; foul play to stop mons like Garchomp from setting up too much, defog for hazard control, roost for longevity, and I opted for U-turn in the last slot rather than Knock Off since I already have that on Obstagoon, and the momentum I get from U-turn after switching in on a grassy glide or shadow ball is excellent.

Some mons that I still struggle with are fast ground-types (Garchomp if it can set up, scarf Lando-T, sand rush Excadrill) and mons that abuse weather (Seismitoad, Dracozolt, Arctozolt). Any advice on handling these guys would be great as well.

That's the team! Really fun imo. I was starting to get bored with either seeing Urshifu on every team, or having to run a hard counter for it (goodbye Buzzwole), or both. Let me know what you think, whether it's tweaking just a few things or throwing out half the team. I sort of just threw it together, so I'd really appreciate everyone's input. Thanks :)

 

[musiquepkmn]

Obstagoon has always been one of my favorite mons since the beginning of SS, but it struggled to make waves, and when combined with the presence of Urshifu-S (a far superior choice in almost every situation), it never got its chance to shine. However, with the banning of Urshifu-S, I think it's finally time for the goon and his squad to shine. So w/o further ado, here's my first attempt at an Obstagoon balance team. Small disclaimer - I'm no expert at showdown, and I've been stuck in the mid-ladder (1500-1600) for a few months now, so take all of this with a grain of salt. I have about a 72% winrate after 25 games with this team so far, but I'd like as much input as possible to make it even better :)

The team:

View attachment 306845View attachment 306846View attachment 306848View attachment 306850View attachment 306849View attachment 306932

Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/8257db0cb136b1c9

View attachment 306845
Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Obstruct/Switcheroo

The star of the team and a powerful ass wallbreaker. Normally I hate shiny sprites but this guy's is really cool so sue me. He's a pretty textbook guts wallbreaker; facade does absolutely ridiculous amounts of damage to anything that doesn't resist it, and knock off is dumb strong too. Close combat is the best coverage move that I've found, to deal with rocks and steels that resist facade. The last slot is up for debate; I've found obstruct to be way more fun, because it's really great to guarantee the burn on the first turn while getting the defense drop on a slower mon that tries to pivot out, usually allowing for an OHKO on the next turn. However, switcheroo could be a good choice because it could be used to cripple faster mons that switch in that aren't named u-turn cinderace. let me know what you think on this one.

View attachment 306846
Toxapex @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Haze

The goon's speed tier is above average at best, leaving it very vulnerable to fast fighting types or fast mons that run fighting-type coverage moves (Cinderace, Zapdos, even Barraskewda, etc.). I've found that the pex is a great partner to the goon, allowing it to soak up any of those fighting-type moves and hit em right back with some rocky helmet chip. Max defense investment is mandatory, and the moveset is standard pex; scald for burn spam, toxic spikes for any setup opportunities, recover for obvious reasons, and haze to stop any setup sweepers that might try to dance in pex's face.

View attachment 306848
Slowking-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 176 SpA / 80 SpD
Calm Nature
- Future Sight
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Scald

The goon also can't really do much to bulky fairies, especially those that are named Primarina and physically defensive Clefable; also, though it's rarely used in OU, a Togekiss on the opposing team is usually gg. So, my best shot at countering these is with AV Slowking, who also soaks up any other special hit that Obstagoon can't take. This is the standard AV set from Smogon; max spdef investment isn't necessary because AV gets its spdef already so high, so the special attack investment allows it to actually do some things with its attacks. Sludge bomb, flamethrower, and scald provide great coverage, and I opted for future sight over psychic because it pairs so well with our next mon.

View attachment 306850
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot

I was realizing that the team needed a stronger offensive presence, so Cinderace was my answer. Its attacks hit dumb hard, and with future sight from Slowking up, it doesn't need to be afraid of its nemesis, Toxapex, switching in on it. Pyro ball and U-turn are absolutely required, and I have gunk shot on there to hit those pesky fairies that screw Obstagoon over. I also chose sucker punch over something like high jump kick because I found it nice for Dragapult, which this team otherwise struggles with; let me know if you think high jump kick (or something else) would be better though.

View attachment 306849
Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off

The next addition I opted for was support Lando, one of my (and everyone else's) favorite and most versatile mons in the current metagame. Intimidate and rocky helmet is a great combo for switching in on a resisted physical hit, and he's my rock setter of choice. Earthquake to do some damage, u-turn for pivoting, and knock off because knocking off rocky helmets and leftovers that would otherwise limit Obstagoon is very helpful.

View attachment 306932
Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 144 SpD / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn

The last mon in this team is something I'm not sure about. I used to have a bulky Zapdos here, but I opted for Mandibuzz because it handled 3 mons that absolutely countered my team in almost every other situation - scale shot Garchomp, choice band Rillaboom, and almost any Dragapult. This is a standard set off Smogon; foul play to stop mons like Garchomp from setting up too much, defog for hazard control, roost for longevity, and I opted for U-turn in the last slot rather than Knock Off since I already have that on Obstagoon, and the momentum I get from U-turn after switching in on a grassy glide or shadow ball is excellent.

Some mons that I still struggle with are fast ground-types (Garchomp if it can set up, scarf Lando-T, sand rush Excadrill) and mons that abuse weather (Seismitoad, Dracozolt, Arctozolt). Any advice on handling these guys would be great as well.

That's the team! Really fun imo. I was starting to get bored with either seeing Urshifu on every team, or having to run a hard counter for it (goodbye Buzzwole), or both. Let me know what you think, whether it's tweaking just a few things or throwing out half the team. I sort of just threw it together, so I'd really appreciate everyone's input. Thanks :)

Run Knock Off on Mandibuzz instead of Foul Play, or instead of U-turn. You don't want to be walled by Sub-Wisp Spectrier, who will set up on you and proceed to sweep. Sucks that you have to choose a move to delete, since U-turn removes Mandibuzz's passivity and Foul Play helps you against SD variants of Chomp, Kart, and Rillaboom, but you don't want to be 6-0'd.

Also, try running Earthquake on Galarian Slowking. It turns your team from Magma Storm fodder into a free 50% on Heatran every game, especially since Cinderace is lacking High Jump Kick.

This team looks really fun, boutta hop on the ladder and try it out. Will probably ignore my above edits and switch out Mandi and Lando-T for Spdef Hippo and Corviknight, but that's a lot of edits that will basically make it a new team, so I'm hesitant to suggest it. Plus, Hippo's Sandstorm is so detrimental to this team, pretty much directly nerfing Cinderace, Glowking, and Obstagoon that I may even try it with Spdef Lando-T or Sand Force on Hippo, counterintuitive as both may seem.

Edit: forgot you had obstagoon for Spectrier LMAO. I'll be back when I find a way to add a wishport clef, as obstagoon really needs it.

 

[rcklssoptmsm]

Run Knock Off on Mandibuzz instead of Foul Play, or instead of U-turn. You don't want to be walled by Sub-Wisp Spectrier, who will set up on you and proceed to sweep. Sucks that you have to choose a move to delete, since U-turn removes Mandibuzz's passivity and Foul Play helps you against SD variants of Chomp, Kart, and Rillaboom, but you don't want to be 6-0'd.

Also, try running Earthquake on Galarian Slowking. It turns your team from Magma Storm fodder into a free 50% on Heatran every game, especially since Cinderace is lacking High Jump Kick.

This team looks really fun, boutta hop on the ladder and try it out. Will probably ignore my above edits and switch out Mandi and Lando-T for Spdef Hippo and Corviknight, but that's a lot of edits that will basically make it a new team, so I'm hesitant to suggest it. Plus, Hippo's Sandstorm is so detrimental to this team, pretty much directly nerfing Cinderace, Glowking, and Obstagoon that I may even try it with Spdef Lando-T or Sand Force on Hippo, counterintuitive as both may seem.

Edit: forgot you had obstagoon for Spectrier LMAO. I'll be back when I find a way to add a wishport clef, as obstagoon really needs it.

lmao i was reading about why you were saying I needed a spectrier check like uhh hahaha

let me know if you find a way to incorporate a wishport clef, or if you end up swapping mandi and lando for hippo and corvi. idc if it basically makes it a new team, i'm interested to see how it plays out. cheers x

 

[Atsen01]

just learnt the hard way that you don't have any switch in to nidoking...

 

[musiquepkmn]

just learnt the hard way that you don't have any switch in to nidoking...

This is also remedied with Spdef Hippowdon, unless they're running the rarer ice beam. Spdef Hippo beats Setup Magearnas, Heatran, and Nidoking that this team struggles with, but it really hurts Obstagoon with Sandstorm. I'm running Sand Force Hippo just because I love the defensive utility Hippo provides and I don't like sandstorm, but that may just be really stupid idk.

 

[Smashburn]

This is also remedied with Spdef Hippowdon, unless they're running the rarer ice beam. Spdef Hippo beats Setup Magearnas, Heatran, and Nidoking that this team struggles with, but it really hurts Obstagoon with Sandstorm. I'm running Sand Force Hippo just because I love the defensive utility Hippo provides and I don't like sandstorm, but that may just be really stupid idk.

That set would most likely do well with Protect if it was used, being as you might rely on stalling out poison or yawn because those would be used on the set.

 

[musiquepkmn]

That set would most likely do well with Protect if it was used, being as you might rely on stalling out poison or yawn because those would be used on the set.

Protect would be nice but the slots are already full with Eq, Slack off, Toxic, and Stealth Rocks. If I were to be able to add a fifth move it would probably be Whirlwind or Rock Slide.

 

[rcklssoptmsm]

Protect would be nice but the slots are already full with Eq, Slack off, Toxic, and Stealth Rocks. If I were to be able to add a fifth move it would probably be Whirlwind or Rock Slide.

Would it be possible just to make Lando a bit faster, so it can switch in on a sludge wave or earth power from Nidoking and outspeed with an earthquake assuming no sub is set up?

 

[musiquepkmn]

Would it be possible just to make Lando a bit faster, so it can switch in on a sludge wave or earth power from Nidoking and outspeed with an earthquake assuming no sub is set up?

That's a good idea but nidoking will probably end up just switching out and taking the free damage on Lando, making sure that over time your answers will be whittled down.

 

[rcklssoptmsm]

That's a good idea but nidoking will probably end up just switching out and taking the free damage on Lando, making sure that over time your answers will be whittled down.

Just fought hyper offense with a Nidoking and barely won... I think he knew I was weak to Nidoking bc he saved him for last. Lando was already down thanks to a crit, so basically I just sacked Mandibuzz because i didn't need her anymore, then switched to Obstagoon. He outspeeds, did 78% with a knock, and had enough bulk to take a sludge wave after LO was gone. Still had Cinderace too, but it was a bit too close for comfort. I think I'm going to invest just a bit more speed in Lando so that it outspeeds Nido by 1. This requires me to run Timid though, so I'm losing a lot of bulk...

 

[rcklssoptmsm]

That's a good idea but nidoking will probably end up just switching out and taking the free damage on Lando, making sure that over time your answers will be whittled down.

Do you think Buzzwole could work as a Landorus and Garchomp counter? Although, my only option would be to get rid of Mandibuzz for it

 

[musiquepkmn]

Do you think Buzzwole could work as a Landorus and Garchomp counter? Although, my only option would be to get rid of Mandibuzz for it

Buzzwole is a very bad pokemon defensively. It lets in literally everything for free, such as Magearna (Set-up magearnas trouble this team as Landorus-T is not Scarf and it abuses Glowking as setup fodder), Clefable (free wishpassing), Slowbro (free KO with opposing Cinderace), and numerous defoggers and spikers who could make progress or remove yours. I would highly recommend that you do not do this.

Also, another thing I didn't mention is that I would change Tspikes to another move. Good options are Baneful Bunker, Toxic, and Knock Off. Tspikes are too easily defogged away and don't even hit a large portion of the metagame that use Heavy-Duty Boots/are flying type, such as Volcarona, Moltres, Zapdos, and Dragapult. I replaced it with Toxic but Baneful Bunker can be nice for being safer against Cinderace and Knock Off to just generally be annoying.

 

[rcklssoptmsm]

Buzzwole is a very bad pokemon defensively. It lets in literally everything for free, such as Magearna (Set-up magearnas trouble this team as Landorus-T is not Scarf and it abuses Glowking as setup fodder), Clefable (free wishpassing), Slowbro (free KO with opposing Cinderace), and numerous defoggers and spikers who could make progress or remove yours. I would highly recommend that you do not do this.

Also, another thing I didn't mention is that I would change Tspikes to another move. Good options are Baneful Bunker, Toxic, and Knock Off. Tspikes are too easily defogged away and don't even hit a large portion of the metagame that use Heavy-Duty Boots/are flying type, such as Volcarona, Moltres, Zapdos, and Dragapult. I replaced it with Toxic but Baneful Bunker can be nice for being safer against Cinderace and Knock Off to just generally be annoying.

lol heard that. And i swapped tspikes for toxic on pex, thanks. I think I like the different spread on Landorus better; the bulk difference isn't tooooo noticeable, not like it could take many hits to begin with, and I've gotten some surprise kills on Nidoking bc they expected it to be slower since it's a support set. Still tend to have trouble with SD Garchomp and setup Magearna...

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off

 

[Atsen01]

It is just a suggestion but maybe you could run Corviknight instead of Mandibuzz, to stop being 6-0ed by Tapu Lele which has caused me a lot of troubles lately. It know that doing that you take out the only semi-counter to Garchomp of the team because it can do much to it but you gain a very nice answer to Urshifu Water and Rillaboom is still under control if you run brave bird.

 

[rcklssoptmsm]

It is just a suggestion but maybe you could run Corviknight instead of Mandibuzz, to stop being 6-0ed by Tapu Lele which has caused me a lot of troubles lately. It know that doing that you take out the only semi-counter to Garchomp of the team because it can do much to it but you gain a very nice answer to Urshifu Water and Rillaboom is still under control if you run brave bird.

Yeah, I've been tempted to switch out Mandibuzz for Corviknight but Garchomp just completely ruins this team in every sense of the word no matter the set (scale shot, ss, lo, you name it) and I'm afraid to get rid of it...

What would you suggest for a corv set tho?

 

[musiquepkmn]

Yeah, I've been tempted to switch out Mandibuzz for Corviknight but Garchomp just completely ruins this team in every sense of the word no matter the set (scale shot, ss, lo, you name it) and I'm afraid to get rid of it...

What would you suggest for a corv set tho?

Corviknight is a better Garchomp counter than Mandibuzz, since +2 LO Stone Edge will OHKO your spread. Don't worry about making that switch, Corviknight won't make your team weaker to Garchomp. Dragapult will be a little problematic, but AV Glowking only takes around 60-70% from Specs Shadow Ball, so you can pivot to Glowking to scout and if they hit a ghost move then switch to the Goon.

 

[rcklssoptmsm]

Corviknight is a better Garchomp counter than Mandibuzz, since +2 LO Stone Edge will OHKO your spread. Don't worry about making that switch, Corviknight won't make your team weaker to Garchomp. Dragapult will be a little problematic, but AV Glowking only takes around 60-70% from Specs Shadow Ball, so you can pivot to Glowking to scout and if they hit a ghost move then switch to the Goon.

So I'm going to run roost, defog, brave bird, u-turn... what for EV spread/nature tho? Should I go fully physically defensive or invest more in spdef for setup mag and tapu lele?

 

[musiquepkmn]

So I'm going to run roost, defog, brave bird, u-turn... what for EV spread/nature tho? Should I go fully physically defensive or invest more in spdef for setup mag and tapu lele?

The Standard OU Defog spread should do fine. Tapu Lele is a little bit of a play-around but no mon comfortably switches into Lele anyways. Corviknight is never going to beat Set-up Magearna anyways, since Brave Bird only does around 18%.