Good and Bad Adaptations of Mainline Game Material

[Yung Dramps]

The main series Pokemon games have a long history of spinoffs expanding on the regions and their concepts, from the core anime to the mangas to Masters. This thread exists to talk about this glut of adaptations, where they went right and where they went wrong. Is there a character portrayal in Adventures that annoyed you? How about a regional landmark that got a big glow-up for Ash? Post about it here!

 

[R_N]

I really liked how XYZ adapted XY's climax. Cliche to bring it up, perhaps, but I think stuff like Lumiose under attack by Zygarde, the giant Zygarde statue, the flashbacks to Lysandre's relief efforts, all the gym leaders, Steven & Diantha showing up to help, Bonnie cheerfully ordering the death destruction of lysandre & the zygarde statue, etc was all pretty cool
Granted most of it was original but swapping the Weapon for Zygarde, Lysandre's backstory and spreading out the raid on Lysandre's labs still kept the general thrust that this is still XY's climax.

Lysandre in general tends to get a good adaptation treatment. You get to see more of Lysandre the Philanthropist instead of Lysandre The Why Is No One Arresting This Man. The anime does it well, and I believe both of those mini web series tackled him about similarly. It's consistent enough that I think that in a would-be Z Version he probably would have had his scenes rewritten to preserve that.

 

[DrrT]

I found the Unova games absolutely fantastic, but the anime adaptation was awfully bad. But for XY and its XYZ anime, it was the opposite.

I may elaborate later, but it would be like beating a dead horse, I really think most anime fans are aware of what happened in those. My only hot take is that I never expected Ash to win against Alain and I don't get all the criticisms that battle got. It's nothing compared to ghd Masters Eight (and no I'm not even an Alain fan, he's just...there. Cool outfit.)

If I have more time I may go in-depth about the Mystery Dungeon mangas because they are pretry cool on their own.

Adventures...needs a post for itself.

But this is a fantastic idea for a thread, I will keep it on mind.

 

[R_N]

For Bad I am bringing out that's right you guessed it: Adventures

I despise the HGSS arc, it's Adventures at its absolute worst. It felt like it just went down a checklist of all the new things in the game that it overly lavishly devoted itself too and updates it needed to give the cast. Even the main shtick of Kris trying & failing to catch Arceus didn't do anything for me because it was all too fast and I couldn't stop thinking about the stupid 2 page spread where Archer is telling me every single type Arceus could be.
I liked no one, none of the set pieces worked and it just felt like it was going through the motions. Did people who liked the original GS arc like this because boy I sure hope not.

 

[RocketSurgery]

I liked that the Detective Pikachu movie was about, well, not Detective Pikachu per se, but that it didn't try to adapt the story of Red and Blue but just took place in the Pokemon universe. (Though they did claim that Mewtwo was *the* OG Kanto Mewtwo, which is ignorable enough. Better than the giant Torterras or the magic gas merging people and Pokemon. But I digress.)

The Fallout show was similarly praised for taking place in the Fallout universe and not just trying to adapt one of the games. Now, if the rumors about the Netflix show that a) it exists, and b) it i will focus on Red are true, that will be disappointing. It just seems like the opposite of creative. Make a new story! And don't just use the original 151!

One adaptational thing that slightly annoyed me is the lack of an adaptation: Pokemon Masters has given a lot of trainers Pokemon that the never had in the main games, but with the exception of Cynthia having Kommo-o in one episode, I don't think any of these pairings made it into the anime. In particular, this could have been a way to work some Alola mons into the Masters Eight tournament. Literally no Alolan mons appeared in that tournament! Cynthia could have used Kommo-o, Steven could have used Alolan Sandslash, heck, let Iris have her Halloween Naganadel. It wasn't in the Masters Eight, but they should have given Korrina Marshadow (ok, they wouldn't have done that in a series where one of the main characters is seeking a mythical Pokemon, but c'mon, the Sun & Moon anime showcased a ton of mythicals, including Shaymin, and Marshadow was relegated to a 5 second gag).

 

[Yung Dramps]

I really liked how XYZ adapted XY's climax. Cliche to bring it up, perhaps, but I think stuff like Lumiose under attack by Zygarde, the giant Zygarde statue, the flashbacks to Lysandre's relief efforts, all the gym leaders, Steven & Diantha showing up to help, Bonnie cheerfully ordering the death destruction of lysandre & the zygarde statue, etc was all pretty cool
Granted most of it was original but swapping the Weapon for Zygarde, Lysandre's backstory and spreading out the raid on Lysandre's labs still kept the general thrust that this is still XY's climax.

Lysandre in general tends to get a good adaptation treatment. You get to see more of Lysandre the Philanthropist instead of Lysandre The Why Is No One Arresting This Man. The anime does it well, and I believe both of those mini web series tackled him about similarly. It's consistent enough that I think that in a would-be Z Version he probably would have had his scenes rewritten to preserve that.

Totally fair but I've always scratched my head at the complete absence of AZ in that series. I get that he didn't do much in the immediate plot of XY but he's so central to the history of Kalos. No Ultimate Weapon? No Eternal Floette? I feel like something of substance could've been done with him. Thankfully they did not shaft any other great game characters who could've benefitted massively from more exposure and screentime and had their arc climax perfectly at the Lumiose City siege whatsoever. That would've been most displeasing to me!

I found the Unova games absolutely fantastic, but the anime adaptation was awfully bad. But for XY and its XYZ anime, it was the opposite.

I may elaborate later, but it would be like beating a dead horse, I really think most anime fans are aware of what happened in those. My only hot take is that I never expected Ash to win against Alain and I don't get all the criticisms that battle got. It's nothing compared to ghd Masters Eight (and no I'm not even an Alain fan, he's just...there. Cool outfit.)

If I have more time I may go in-depth about the Mystery Dungeon mangas because they are pretry cool on their own.

Adventures...needs a post for itself.

But this is a fantastic idea for a thread, I will keep it on mind.

Best Wishes Team Plasma is the undisputed pinnacle of botching a villain faction from the games. It's genuinely a huge shame because N is basically the anti-Paul and they could've gotten a ton of mileage out of leaning into that. I've also complained about this before but they didn't even let Shinji Miyazaki work his magic on the Plasma theme suite and I will never forgive them for depriving us of a Decisive Battle! N arrangement from him

 

[R_N]

I give a pass to Team Plasma, it's extremely clear that the earthquake really ruined all their plans for "Season 1" and "Season 2" was a lot of throwing things at the wall.

We even have the leaked script for the plasma 2 parter, it clearly had set up for future Plasma interactions.

 

[Coronis]

For Bad I am bringing out that's right you guessed it: Adventures

I despise the HGSS arc, it's Adventures at its absolute worst. It felt like it just went down a checklist of all the new things in the game that it overly lavishly devoted itself too and updates it needed to give the cast. Even the main shtick of Kris trying & failing to catch Arceus didn't do anything for me because it was all too fast and I couldn't stop thinking about the stupid 2 page spread where Archer is telling me every single type Arceus could be.
I liked no one, none of the set pieces worked and it just felt like it was going through the motions. Did people who liked the original GS arc like this because boy I sure hope not.

tbh I’ve loved what I’ve read of Adventures, but I haven’t actually read beyond the GSC arc. Nothing to do with quality, just keep getting distracted by other things. I’ve heard stories about quality dips later on but yeah can’t speak to them atm.

It is on my bucket list to read the whole thing (I just reread all of OP during the 2 week break) so I do definitely have the capability and time, just maybe lacking some motivation.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I found the Unova games absolutely fantastic, but the anime adaptation was awfully bad. But for XY and its XYZ anime, it was the opposite.

I may elaborate later, but it would be like beating a dead horse, I really think most anime fans are aware of what happened in those. My only hot take is that I never expected Ash to win against Alain and I don't get all the criticisms that battle got. It's nothing compared to ghd Masters Eight (and no I'm not even an Alain fan, he's just...there. Cool outfit.)

If I have more time I may go in-depth about the Mystery Dungeon mangas because they are pretry cool on their own.

Adventures...needs a post for itself.

But this is a fantastic idea for a thread, I will keep it on mind.

BW had a lot of pretty direct adaptations (compared to how a lot of other games were adapted more loosely; but the nature of BW's story means it basically has to be faithfully recreated without much deviation) and tbh I don't think there's one which is superior to the games, they all felt lesser or incomplete.

I absolutely loved the GSC chapter of Adventures, though. The sheer number of characters, subplots, and arcs the chapter covers - and the way it draws them all together for the eventual climax - was very well-crafted and makes it stand out to me as the peak of the series. It felt like it properly captured the sheer expansive size of the combined Kanto-Johto landmass and built on the RBY chapter without having to undo or undermine it as sequels so often fall into the trap of doing*. Adventures often manages to find novel and interesting ways to interpret the game characters, and the trios/quartets that form are usually well-balanced in terms of personalities. Gold, Silver, and Crystal are no exception: Gold's a goofball and wannabe smooth-talking hustler, Silver's an edgy antihero, and Crystal's the Hermione Granger of the group who does things by the book and has hidden altruistic motives. What I also like is that it gives protagonists and villains numerous team picks which made creative and interesting use of various species the games largely ignored (Magcargo, Delibird, Sunflora, Aipom, Mantine, Politoed, Slowking, Tyranitar, Porygon2).

It's long, and sometimes feels like it's threatening to drag but always manages to pull things around and make the length justified by the payoff. It's truly "everyone's story", in the best way - even most of the Gym Leaders have an arc, and the Kanto-Johto tournament pairs them up in ways which either provide some interesting contrasts (Clair/Blaine, Bugsy/Sabrina, Pryce/Erika, Whitney/Misty) or parallels (Jasmine/Brock, Morty/Surge, Chuck/Blue, Falkner/Janine). I half-expected them to limply make it a 4-4 even split and take the whole "I guess we'll never know which region is stronger!" line, but was pleasantly surprised that they didn't sidestep it and had the Kanto leaders emerge victorious. Shouldn't have been a surprise really. We all know Kanto must be venerated and honoured above all else, it's rule #1 of all Pokemon media.

But yeah. It follows the general direction of the game's plot but never slavishly so, expanding on all the mythology of the Johto region in a way no other adaptation really has. Seriously, Ho-oh and Lugia feel downright scary at times. And the Mask of Ice plot is truly one of the most deliciously dark elements in any Pokemon media - Blue and Green's trauma at having been kidnapped by him, and the way in which the children who didn't escape are shown to have been so thoroughly brainwashed and far gone into evil, feels so utterly creepy. I love it.

*ironically, the HGSS chapter is pretty much a perfect example of what I mean by this

 

[pokemon4eva]

Adventures does feel going through the motions in plenty of arcs, specially the more recent ones. SM is one of the worst offenders, for a dialogue heavy game the pacing of this arc is constantly on a rush. Hau, Gladion and even LILLIE stay on the sidelines for way longer that they should despite being crucial characters in their story. And it never stops feeling rushed, later on there is a time skip that doesn't feel impactful at all. It's a shame bc there's interesting elements like Sun being a money obsessed boy without needing to be stereotypically greedy, as a reference to the jobs and quests the player can do in the games for cash and rewards.

SPOILER BC THIS WAS WILD

Also there's a second Cosmog which Guzma gets to use and summon Ultra Beasts to fight for him; it's cool, dope, and I wish we got to fight more UBs during the main story of SM/USUM

On a positive note XY's arc is one of my favorites, I said this before but it employs to better use the ideas that XY presented: the cast of colorful friends following you in this journey, the legendary trio and their role in the story, an organization with inhumane goals whitewashed by the media, Essentia and the huge threat of her abilities. Also I waited the chance to gush at the final chapter...

Spoiler

Team Flare was exposed and stopped for good, but no one finds out who did it and our heroes get discouraged at seeing everyone ignoring and some dismissing them after the whole ordeal they went through to save them. After AZ goads them with a battle to destroy the key to the ultimate weapon, he exposes that it was this line of thought who made Lysandre who he is. It's a pretty mature outcome that bc of one good action that everyone will not turn generous asap, but it's even more mature that to show that you should stay true to your values and continue on with your life's goals, which is what our heroes do.

 

[DrrT]

For Bad I am bringing out that's right you guessed it: Adventures

I despise the HGSS arc, it's Adventures at its absolute worst. It felt like it just went down a checklist of all the new things in the game that it overly lavishly devoted itself too and updates it needed to give the cast. Even the main shtick of Kris trying & failing to catch Arceus didn't do anything for me because it was all too fast and I couldn't stop thinking about the stupid 2 page spread where Archer is telling me every single type Arceus could be.
I liked no one, none of the set pieces worked and it just felt like it was going through the motions. Did people who liked the original GS arc like this because boy I sure hope not.

This is even worse because as QuentinQuonce has mentioned, the GSC arc is nothong sort of fanrastic. And there are good base ideas there, and it ties nicely in the DPPlt arc that happens later chronologically. But yeah...is Swinub fighting Dialga. Cool, I guess. Pryce was such a good villain seeing him back was awesome yet didn't feel like enough.

A similar idea of "past villains come back because the new threat is that worrysome" is repeated in the ORAS arc and...holy Arceus, that arc.

I have seem people defend it's realistic that different parties would want to get rid of the meteor amd get all the glory. I get that. But not only makes every party very unlikable here, there is also the elephant in the room:Maxie and Archie. They were literally reborn to help. They shouldn't be after glory. They should care about doing their job. But because they refuse to say their goals, they are killed after facing the heroes...It's cool to see Red and Blue using Megas and the way this arc tries to resolve the inconsistencies created by being all in the same timeline unlike the games that are remakes (so for example Tabitha is now a title). It probably doesn't help that the Maxie-Archie already got a much better closure in the Emerald arc with Guille and Jirachi (but everything related to a certain Darkrai owner never went anywhere despite the insane buildup so...)

 

[R_N]

This is even worse because as QuentinQuonce has mentioned, the GSC arc is nothong sort of fanrastic. And there are good base ideas there, and it ties nicely in the DPPlt arc that happens later chronologically. But yeah...is Swinub fighting Dialga. Cool, I guess. Pryce was such a good villain seeing him back was awesome yet didn't feel like enough.

A similar idea of "past villains come back because the new threat is that worrysome" is repeated in the ORAS arc and...holy Arceus, that arc.

I have seem people defend it's realistic that different parties would want to get rid of the meteor amd get all the glory. I get that. But not only makes every party very unlikable here, there is also the elephant in the room:Maxie and Archie. They were literally reborn to help. They shouldn't be after glory. They should care about doing their job. But because they refuse to say their goals, they are killed after facing the heroes...It's cool to see Red and Blue using Megas and the way this arc tries to resolve the inconsistencies created by being all in the same timeline unlike the games that are remakes (so for example Tabitha is now a title). It probably doesn't help that the Maxie-Archie already got a much better closure in the Emerald arc with Guille and Jirachi (but everything related to a certain Darkrai owner never went anywhere despite the insane buildup so...)

While we're here, gotta say: the Platinum & Emerald arcs are also not great.
So much of it is understandably spent in the battle facilities, but I didn't find any of it especially interesting and the conceit of playing it exactly like in the games was tiring. Literally characters in-universe got bored of it. And the real plotline both takes forever to get going (probably because they were running concurrently with their "earlier" counterparts) and feels really slim.

I genuinely can't even remember if the Stark Mountain plotline played out in Platinum's arc because everything else just dulled its way over.

(& not even pertaining to an "adaptation" since its entirely original but the reveal that Emerald was the kid Oak was giving a Pokedex to only to recontextualize the scene as him going "no fuck you" felt like a really mean addition for a plot they were entirely in control of)

 

[Yung Dramps]

Byron in Diamond & Pearl Adventure (the one with Hareta) is actually kind of a savage. Physically his design is souped up by having way more defined muscles than his game counterpart and he gets introduced as a shadowy figure who saves Hareta before he trains him. But easily the funniest/coolest part about him is Canalave Gym being this death trap where Hareta has to parkour across suspended girders while fighting off Onix and Steelix. He's so insane I love him

 

[DrrT]

While we're here, gotta say: the Platinum & Emerald arcs are also not great.
So much of it is understandably spent in the battle facilities, but I didn't find any of it especially interesting and the conceit of playing it exactly like in the games was tiring. Literally characters in-universe got bored of it. And the real plotline both takes forever to get going (probably because they were running concurrently with their "earlier" counterparts) and feels really slim.

I genuinely can't even remember if the Stark Mountain plotline played out in Platinum's arc because everything else just dulled its way over.

(& not even pertaining to an "adaptation" since its entirely original but the reveal that Emerald was the kid Oak was giving a Pokedex to only to recontextualize the scene as him going "no fuck you" felt like a really mean addition for a plot they were entirely in control of)

I would argue Emerald is better than Platinum, because I genuinely can't remember anything from the later other than Regigigas' role for some reason, and Darkrai being released which was disappointing.

While I do think the ending of Emerald is trying too hard to be an epic "everyone is here" showdown that never gets to the level of GSC, the villain alone and how it works as a good wrap-up for gen 3 as a whole makes it memorable for me. (Sird deserved a way better resolution but that isn't on the Emerald arc)

There is no denying Emerald feels like a kick in the face tho. Surely you could add him to the group without hurting Wally? The later was just so obviously supposed to be the third , green coded Holder of the gen...and it's training and development are some of the highlights of the RS arc for me. It's just so weird because Yellow is right there without stepping into Blue's footsteps in any way. Sure, Emerald and Wally would share "color" but is it really a dealbreaker? Was it really needed for Emerald to have Sceptile?

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I would argue Emerald is better than Platinum, because I genuinely can't remember anything from the later other than Regigigas' role for some reason, and Darkrai being released which was disappointing.

While I do think the ending of Emerald is trying too hard to be an epic "everyone is here" showdown that never gets to the level of GSC, the villain alone and how it works as a good wrap-up for gen 3 as a whole makes it memorable for me. (Sird deserved a way better resolution but that isn't on the Emerald arc)

There is no denying Emerald feels like a kick in the face tho. Surely you could add him to the group without hurting Wally? The later was just so obviously supposed to be the third , green coded Holder of the gen...and it's training and development are some of the highlights of the RS arc for me. It's just so weird because Yellow is right there without stepping into Blue's footsteps in any way. Sure, Emerald and Wally would share "color" but is it really a dealbreaker? Was it really needed for Emerald to have Sceptile?

I also really disliked how they filled Emerald's team out. Sudowoodo is the one that's encountered in the BF, Sceptile came by way of the Battle Factory and Dusclops was encountered during his Battle Pike challenge... and then he obtains no new Pokemon until the very end of the arc, when bam-bam-bam he gets more three team members all at once who get almost nothing in the way of spotlight and development and only exist to be paired off with the other dex holders' identical species and tease the new baby Pokemon we'll be getting in Gen IV.

Although afaik only one of those ever came to anything, it's mentioned that Red's Snorlax and Emerald's Snorlax made an egg but to my recollection we never hear of the others making a Mantyke or Mime Jr or Bonsly or even a new Eevee (since we see Red's Espeon getting friendly with Blue's Ditto for... some reason) so what was even the point of that. Like it's pretty heavily implied the resulting egg ends up being Dia's Munchlax some time later though I was expecting the HGSS chapter to explain why Red and Emerald and their Snorlax were apparently fine with the egg being taken hundreds of miles away and given to some random kid and it just... never gets discussed. Really bare bones storytelling.

It's all the more annoying since Noland keeps a Mawile for himself, which I think suits Emerald far more (small, tricky, resourceful, ALSO IT'S A GEN III SPECIES)

 

[Yung Dramps]

I mean there's also the more obvious problem of Emerald being one of the worst character designs in all of Pokemon. I don't know if I'd call his goofy-ass look Male Galactic Grunt-level bad but!

 

[DrrT]

Do the "Arceus Chronicles" even count as an adaptation of LA? Considering is the only thing related to LA done in the Ash anime... it must be one of the worst tie-ins they have ever done. I have no idea why the focus was in Heatran instead of, you know, Hisui? But even as a standalone story to tie into Sinnoh I would argue it's pretty bad. It's literally resolved by praying to Arceus (which okay it's kind of hilarious) which has so, so many implications about its priorities and lack of actions in other arcs. Like, I'm not going to pretend Arceus is exactly the most proactive deity around (it yeets a teenager into the past to solve a problem of literally dimensional proportions...and to catch Pokemon for some reason) but at least I don't wonder why conflicts in other games are not resolved by "hey guys let's pray to God". Hisuian Snow is so much better (it's also mostly a original story, but the end credits do tie so nicely with LA and I was fanboying over them so much).

Just for not being so negative, I liked Origins for what it was. Yes, it's a bit of weird how much it focuses on Cubone, and the last episode is basically marketing for the new games. But considering it was just four episodes long and that Kanto isn't exactly a deep story anyways, I think it does well. I specially liked how they handled Giovanni, a character that I have almost always found incredibly overrated (well, the game version. Adventures' is interesting). And they do manage to hype up Mewtwo nicely, which is ironic given its role in XY (oh hey a cave-oh its Mewtwo. Just there. A couple meters from the entrance...)

I mean there's also the more obvious problem of Emerald being one of the worst character designs in all of Pokemon. I don't know if I'd call his goofy-ass look Male Galactic Grunt-level bad but!

I mean I don't actually like it, but at least is unique. The guy is fighting a Pokemon trainer wearing a full armor and sword using a Surskit, I would argue it being goofy and quirkly fits well. In ORAS he just..has funny shoes I guess? His hair somehow managed to get worse imho.

 

[pokemon4eva]

A similar idea of "past villains come back because the new threat is that worrysome" is repeated in the ORAS arc and...holy Arceus, that arc.

I have seem people defend it's realistic that different parties would want to get rid of the meteor amd get all the glory. I get that. But not only makes every party very unlikable here, there is also the elephant in the room:Maxie and Archie. They were literally reborn to help. They shouldn't be after glory. They should care about doing their job. But because they refuse to say their goals, they are killed after facing the heroes...It's cool to see Red and Blue using Megas and the way this arc tries to resolve the inconsistencies created by being all in the same timeline unlike the games that are remakes (so for example Tabitha is now a title). It probably doesn't help that the Maxie-Archie already got a much better closure in the Emerald arc with Guille and Jirachi (but everything related to a certain Darkrai owner never went anywhere despite the insane buildup so...)

Yeah the ORAS arc felt very contrived all around, which says a lot bc it's adapting the already contrived conflict of the ORAS Delta Episode. So for a positive example:

It's really funny how even the miniseries includes the crumbling floor from RSE, sth that the remake infamously didn't do and instead made Sky Pillar an uneventful exposition dump. So when Evolutions covers this it backs up Zinnia's tale with fantastic visuals of the legendary Pokemon. They also skip that part when Zinnia knocks out the player character for no reason (why do this? the meteor is coming close!) and instead start the ceremony at night which, again, works better with the art direction as the sky shifts from night to dawn. It's not all just better visuals tho, those few seconds Zinnia gets when Rayquaza is defeated does her character so well: how she prepared near her whole life for this moment only to fail, and then accepting that it's May's role to be Rayquaza's partner. It's my favorite of the Evolutions episodes, which is surprising considering that it's adapting the Delta episode (or at least the 2nd most interesting part about it after Deoxys haha).

I mean there's also the more obvious problem of Emerald being one of the worst character designs in all of Pokemon. I don't know if I'd call his goofy-ass look Male Galactic Grunt-level bad but!

I won't argue against the Emerald critiques since there's plenty of motives to be disappointed about him (his attitude at the start, his insane abilities, being Wally's replacement, etc.), buuuuuut at least he was, y'know, a character specifically designed for the Emerald arc. I can't say the same about Marvin, a random npc trainer in the games that SOMEHOW became companion of the main protagonists over Hop in the Adventures SWSH arc.

Now, this isn't the first time a generic npc takes an important role in this manga, we had a Super Nerd and a Fisherman in the Yellow arc for example, but not to the same degree as Marvin does, where he receives a starter pokemon and gets to follow along Sword and Shield's journey since the start. Hop just cannot win once lol, like the Alola gang mentioned above, I can't help but feel they severely underutilize him compared to what he does in the mainline games.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Yeah the ORAS arc felt very contrived all around, which is surpising since it's adapting the already contrived conflict of the ORAS Delta Episode. So for a positive example:

It's really funny how even the miniseries includes the crumbling floor from Emerald, sth that the remake infamously didn't do and instead made Sky Pillar an uneventful exposition dump. So when Evolutions covers this it backs up Zinnia's tale with fantastic visuals of the legendary Pokemon. They also skip that part when Zinnia knocks out the player character for no reason (why do this? the meteor is coming close!) and instead start the ceremony at night which, again, works better with the art direction as the sky shifts from night to dawn. It's not all just better visuals tho, those few seconds Zinnia gets when Rayquaza is defeated does her character so well: how she prepared near her whole life for this moment only to fail, and then accepting that it's May's role to be Rayquaza's partner. It's my favorite of the Evolutions episodes, which is surprising considering that it's adapting the Delta episode (or at least the 2nd most interesting part about it after Deoxys haha).



I won't argue against the Emerald critiques since there's plenty of motives to be disappointed about him (his attitude at the start, his insane abilities, being Wally's replacement, etc.), buuuuuut at least he was, y'know, a character specifically designed for the Emerald arc. I can't say the same about Marvin, a random npc trainer in the games that SOMEHOW became companion of the main protagonists over Hop in the Adventures SWSH arc.

View attachment 688252

Now, this isn't the first time a generic npc takes an important role in this manga, we had a Super Nerd and a Fisherman in the Yellow arc for example, but not to the same degree as Marvin does, where he receives a starter pokemon and gets to follow along Sword and Shield's journey since the start. Hop just cannot win once lol, like the Alola gang mentioned above, I can't help but feel they severely underutilize him compared to what he does in the mainline games.

I... Uh... What...????

Ah yes, replace one of the main characters of the game you're adapting with a literal NPC. Brilliant. How is this manga still going lmao

 

[R_N]

I've heard literally no one talk about the SWSH arc in Adventures, but just glancing at his summary it seems like he is fairly present in the manga (certainly in comparison to the anime). Which in some ways makes what you say Marvin does even weirder than if he was just a replacement, honestly.

--

So. Lusamine in the anime.

I've commented on it before, but the way people treat Lusamine in USUM you'd think her entire character was completely changed but it really wasn't. Her selfish megalomania just had a different focus due to the Ultra Recon Squad (somewhat arbitrarily, but that's everything to do with the URS so....whatever, I guess). Like this is still the woman responsible for the Type All project, still the one spearheading the abuse of Nebby to open wormholes for her own reasons, still has that insane room full of frozen Pokemon, still mistreated Lillie, etc. I also think there's actually some interesting aspects to her they touch on after the climax, at this completely humbled woman who has to directly deal with the aftermath of her failures as President, a self-proclaimed protector of Pokemon and most importantly as a Mother. her dialog reads completely exhausted, kind of depressed and only finds resolution to be a better person for her children while letting them move forward with their independence. Honestly post-SM I can see all that still ringing true in various ways for her.
Anyway the way USUM fails her is that all this dialog is optional (& some of it is time sensitive & some of it is RNG) and you have to go out of your way to see it (backtrack all the way to her room in Aether Resort, randomly get her as a Challenger, etc) and the central confrontation with Lillie -by far & away the strongest part of SM's plotline and an iconic climax leagues better than fighting Ultra Necrozma- is put completely off screen putting a damper on any interesting things you could read into or enjoy about how it played. I only really appreciated it when going through her quotes all at once, you know? Rough stuff.

Lusamine in the anime is, to me, what people say USUM Lusamine is. In the anime they change a lot of things to both absolve her of her abuses and her dark side of Aether:
-personality wise she's more like a classic business-man archetype mixed with being a smother. She's always worried about her work above everything else and when she does interact with her children its in a very overwhelming manner rather than a directly controlling one. On the surface stuff like the clothing would be similar, but the intent is very different.
-She learned about UBs from her father, so her obsession doesn't come from the twisted fallout of the Mohn situation, it comes from a childhood dream.
-her reaction to learning Mohn went through the wormhole was to assume he died and her sin is hiding the truth while throwing herself into Aether Foundation work.
-Virtually everything terrible is laid at Faba's feet. Rather than just being a slimey weasel he's the one trying to use Nebby to reopen wormholes & actively trying he's the one who created Silvally behind Lusamine's back (I think? He hid the successful creation of it at aleast, maybe she still gave the okay) and Lusamine is shocked to learn a lot about what happened later on. He's also the one responsible for Lillie's trauma regarding Pokemon and sealing away Silvally into Type Null to cover up his fuck ups.
-So carrying on that, when the wormholes open up from Nebby a Nihilego comes back out, goes for Lillie and Lusamine jumps in the way so it takes her instead
-In the games the Mother Beast is the toxins taking everything terrible about her and amping them up to her absolute worst. In the anime it turns her into a woman child throwing a tantrum. Lillie still has her confrontation pushing back against her but again, the intent & vibes are entirely different.
-After this she sticks around as mission control for the UB stuff and is generally a more level headed person (while still being an "embarassing" mom iirc)

I think that, in a vaccuum, this kind of arc would be fine. A tired & true achetype, there's some cool character moments and she has some fun interactions as mission control, and assuming Mohn is dead is itself an interesting conceit. Heck the stuff parallel to Lusamine, like lillie being around the entire anime and having extra trauma to work through throughout the anime, is even pretty neat.
But as an adaptation of Lusamine's SM arc it's kinda awful.

 

[KalosianPorygon]

I give a pass to Team Plasma, it's extremely clear that the earthquake really ruined all their plans for "Season 1" and "Season 2" was a lot of throwing things at the wall.

We even have the leaked script for the plasma 2 parter, it clearly had set up for future Plasma interactions.

Haven't read this leaked script, but I have the gut feeling I still won't like this Team Plasma arc that could have been because the meteor subplot wouldn't fix two of my biggest gripes about this arc:

1. Where's Zekrom?
2. Where's Ghetsis team?

I really liked how XYZ adapted XY's climax. Cliche to bring it up, perhaps, but I think stuff like Lumiose under attack by Zygarde, the giant Zygarde statue, the flashbacks to Lysandre's relief efforts, all the gym leaders, Steven & Diantha showing up to help, Bonnie cheerfully ordering the death destruction of lysandre & the zygarde statue, etc was all pretty cool
Granted most of it was original but swapping the Weapon for Zygarde, Lysandre's backstory and spreading out the raid on Lysandre's labs still kept the general thrust that this is still XY's climax.

Lysandre in general tends to get a good adaptation treatment. You get to see more of Lysandre the Philanthropist instead of Lysandre The Why Is No One Arresting This Man. The anime does it well, and I believe both of those mini web series tackled him about similarly. It's consistent enough that I think that in a would-be Z Version he probably would have had his scenes rewritten to preserve that.

XYZ's and XY's climaxes are like apples and oranges to me: completely different. Where are Xerneas and Yveltal in the anime, for one?

 

[R_N]

Haven't read this leaked script, but I have the gut feeling I still won't like this Team Plasma arc that could have been because the meteor subplot wouldn't fix two of my biggest gripes about this arc:

1. Where's Zekrom?
2. Where's Ghetsis team?

Well iirc Ghetsis was teased in the arc, so presumably the entire course of the anime's plotline would have been different. It was definitely going to be a slow burn type deal akin to Sinnoh's usage of Galactic except now Team Rocket was more involved. The abbreviated Plasma arc we got in Season 2 with Episode N was likely not fully indicative of what they wanted to happen. Considering they set up Zekrom at the start, I think the only reason it & pokemon owned by Ghetsis didn't show up proper in Episode N was just due to constraints in timing & planning and it was better to zero in on Reshiram.
Best Wishes really was just all over the place and the earthquake definitely lead them into some different directions. It's why I give it a pass.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Ok, genuine question

Are these two the most successful character adaptations of all time by default? They took a pair of literally who generic boss fights with like a dozen lines total combined and transformed them into beloved children's television characters remembered fondly by millions the world over. Imagine if this happened to two of the Megaman 1 robot masters.

By the way, would you guys like an extended rant on how I think XY Spe botched Emma or is the whole Emma hypeman bit getting annoying by now?

 

[R_N]

Ok, genuine question
View attachment 698773
Are these two the most successful character adaptations of all time by default? They took a pair of literally who generic boss fights with like a dozen lines total combined and transformed them into beloved children's television characters remembered fondly by millions the world over. Imagine if this happened to two of the Megaman 1 robot masters.

I think you're not entirely wrong, but I think that "transformed" might be a strong word. You kind of got it in one with "by default." I think any pair of characters chosen from the games would have resulted in being about as popular* just by virtue of being characters who appear in almost every episode for the most influential part of Pokemon's early life time while providing nice straightforward character archetypes to bounce of each other, Ash and COTDs.
I think in a strange world where one of the other anime casts had been in similar shoes (there are too many asterisks involved here so just dont think about the logistics too hard) that even, I dunno, Cilan & Iris would be about as beloved


Also Gary might be the actual most successful adaptation because you still to this day get people -people still playing and talking about Pokemon even!- referring to Blue as "Gary", even after he's been a more pushed character with that name. He's that ingrained into the conciousness , even Red doesn't get called "Ash" nearly as often.
And as far as game -> early anime adaptations go, he's pretty accurate: arrogant and skilled (& experience comeuppance), he just has more opportunities to be funny about it + had the same influencial time period bonus as Brock & Misty despite not making as many appearences.

By the way, would you guys like an extended rant on how I think XY Spe botched Emma or is the whole Emma hypeman bit getting annoying by now?

trying to find a way to say this without sounding mean, because we all have our writing tics that can be annoying but, maybe, if you can find a way to talk about it that doesnt involve referring to soul being taken off the menu, ruining peak, or not being kino.




*Granted the pair are about the only options unless you just want pure OCs or want to have Gary be not a rival. They're the first pair of leaders so most people will recognize them even if they didn't get far in the game, they can reasonably pass for being kids/teens (I mean as a kid i never once in my life thought Brock was 10 sorry Shudo you're just not selling me on this at all, but still young enough to be hanging with Ash) and they're not esoteric.
Giovanni's the villain and an adult, Blaine's an old man, Surge is an adult, Koga's an adult and the ninja shtick probably would feel a bit weird for a whole series (at least, early on; maybe we could have traveled Johto with Janine or something) so your men options are limited. Going away from leaders, Bill maybe? Erika probably could have filled in for Misty -not like they kept the "sleepy & kind" thing for her in the anime- but Sabrina & the psychic type probably has more going on that she'd always be slotted in as a "boss" above anything else. & The E4 were in similar boats, of course.

 

[nitchenkightmares]

Imagine if this happened to two of the Megaman 1 robot masters.

By the way, would you guys like an extended rant on how I think XY Spe botched Emma or is the whole Emma hypeman bit getting annoying by now?

It technically did in a way, if you count the Ruby spears cartoon's meme status

Also, your Emma fangirling hasn't been a problem. Keep up with hyping this underrated Gen VI character as you please.