Other Tiers [Gen 9] Modern Gen 1

[Copen]

Approved by staff team / art by Albatross

Discord Server HERE! ​

What is Modern Gen 1?
Modern Gen 1 (MG1) is a solomod that puts every move, type and Pokemon from Gen 9 National Dex into Gen 1, creating a distinctly unique metagame. Mechanics are taken from gen1customgame on PS! and aren't changed by the council. Only Pokemon legal in Gen 9 National Dex are legal here.

How to Play

Paste the challenge command in the PMs of the other person. Command does not check move legality or legality of unreleased mons. You can also play it on Dragon Heaven which has builder support!

/challenge gen1customgame @@@ !! Max Level = 100, !! Max Team Size = 6, !! Max Move Count = 4, Obtainable Formes, -Dig, -Fly, -Bind, -Clamp, -Fire Spin, -Infestation, -Magma Storm, -Sand Tomb, -Snap Trap, -Thunder Cage, -Whirlpool, -Wrap, -Spikes, -Toxic Spikes, -Stealth Rock, -Sticky Web, -Stone Axe, -Ceaseless Edge, Freeze Clause Mod, -all items, -Fake Out, -Wonder Room, -Trick Room, -Magic Room, -Lucky Chant, -Tailwind, -Safeguard, -Gravity, -Confuse Ray, -Supersonic, -Swagger, -Sweet Kiss, -Teeter Dance, -Flatter, -Protect, -Detect, -Shell Smash, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, -Arceus, -Basculegion, -Basculegion-F, -Calyrex-Ice, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Darkrai, -Deoxys-Base, -Deoxys-Attack, -Deoxys-Defense, -Deoxys-Speed, -Dialga, -Dragapult, -Electrode-Hisui, -Eternatus, -Giratina, -Groudon, -Ho-oh, -Inteleon, -Iron-Bundle, -Iron-Valiant, -Koraidon, -Kyogre, -Kyurem-White, -Kyurem-Black, -Lugia, -Lunala, -Magearna, -Marshadow, -Mew, -Mewtwo, -Miraidon, -Naganadel, -Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, -Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, -Palkia, -Pheromosa, -Rayquaza, -Regigigas, -Reshiram, -Slaking, -Sneasler, -Solgaleo, -Xerneas, -Walking-Wake, -Zacian, -Zamazenta, -Zekrom, -all abilities, +No Ability

Here's a rundown of MG1's mechanics:

• Field effects (hazards, weather, etc), items and abilities are not present.
• Special is seperated into Special Attack and Defense for all Pokemon.
• Moves are assigned to physical or special depending on typing.​
  • Physical: Normal, Fighting, Flying, Poison, Ground, Rock, Steel, Bug, Ghost, Fairy
  • Special: Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Psychic, Ice, Dark, Dragon
• Moves and Pokemon are their earliest versions.
• Standard RBY mechanics, including but not limited to old partial trapping and skipping the recharge turn on KO, apply to new moves.
• Some moves are changed, more info here.

F.A.Q
Q: How does Special work?
There's no special, it's seperated into Special Attack and Defense like in later gens. Gen 1 Pokemon have their SpA/SpD equal to their Special. Moves like Nasty Plot that raise SpA do not raise SpD and vice versa. Amnesia, Growth, and Psychic raise/drop both SpA/SpD. SpD changes are invisible.
Q: How do the new types work?
Dark, Steel and Fairy all function properly defensively, but Fire does not resist Steel and Fairy, Poison does not resist Fairy and Dark is not super effective against Ghost or Psychic. Fairy moves are physical.
Q; Why is X banned?
Partial Trapping: Later generation partial trapping moves do not lock the user, so they are banned. As for the four partial trapping moves that already existed in RBY, the many new speed boosting moves like Dragon Dance and Shell Smash, a complex ban of speed boosting + partial trapping would be needed. Rather then introduce a complex ban, which goes against modern tiering policy, the council decided to ban partial trapping moves instead.
Sleep Moves: With the addition of insanely fast sleepers with pivot moves, there is absolutely no counterplay to getting slept. On top of the 1-7 sleep turns, which tends to be an OHKO in a metagame as fast paced as MG1, sleepers can punish you regardless of what you do by using a pivot move, always putting themselves in a good position on top of dishing out sleep.

Council
Copen (Tier Leader)
juoean
DiamondDiancie25

Gen 8 Resources

 

[Copen]

Ruleset:
Banned Pokemon
Arceus
Basculegion
Basculegion-F
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Defense
Deoxys-Speed
Dialga
Dragapult
Electrode-Hisui
Eternatus
Giratina
Groudon
Ho-oh
Inteleon
Iron Bundle
Iron Valiant
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-White
Kyurem-Black
Lugia
Lunala
Magearna
Marshadow
Mew
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Naganadel
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Palkia
Pheromosa
Rayquaza
Regigigas
Reshiram
Slaking
Sneasler
Solgaleo
Walking Wake
Xerneas
Zacian
Zamazenta
Zekrom

Banned Moves

• Confusion status moves (Confuse Ray, Flatter, Supersonic, Swagger, Sweet Kiss, Teeter Dance)
• Detect, Protect
• Fake Out
• Partial trapping moves (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Infestation, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Snap Trap, Thunder Cage, Whirlpool, Wrap)
• Shell Smash

Clauses

• Species Clause: two Pokemon with the same national pokedex number cannot be used.
• Sleep Moves Clause: Players cannot use moves that inflict or otherwise lead to inflicting sleep on foes, such as Sleep Powder or Yawn.
• Evasion Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
• Freeze Clause Mod: Limit of one Pokemon frozen per team.
• OHKO Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
• Field Effect Clause: all moves that enable a lasting field effect (weather, terrains, hazards, rooms, Gravity, Tailwind, Safeguard, Lucky Chant) cannot be in a Pokemon's moveset.
• No Item Clause: a Pokemon cannot hold an item.
• No Ability Clause: a Pokemon has to have the No Ability ability.
• Endless Battle Clause: players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from ending the game without forfeiting.

Other Metagame Rulesets

Gen 8 MG1 Overused Ruleset

Ruleset:
Banned Pokemon
Arceus
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Cloyster
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Speed
Dialga
Dragapult
Eternatus
Genesect
Gorebyss
Groudon
Ho-oh
Inteleon
Kyogre
Kyurem-White
Kyurem-Black
Lugia
Lunala
Marshadow
Mew
Mewtwo
Naganadel
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Omastar
Palkia
Pheromosa
Rayquaza
Regigigas
Reshiram
Slaking
Solgaleo
Xerneas
Zacian
Zamazenta
Zekrom
Zygarde

Banned Moves

• Fake Out
• Partial trapping moves (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Infestation, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Snap Trap, Thunder Cage, Whirlpool, Wrap)

Clauses

• Species Clause: two Pokemon with the same national pokedex number cannot be used.
• Sleep Moves Clause: Players cannot use moves that inflict or otherwise lead to inflicting sleep on foes, such as Sleep Powder or Yawn.
• Evasion Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
• Freeze Clause Mod: Limit of one Pokemon frozen per team.
• OHKO Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
• Field Effect Clause: all moves that enable a lasting field effect (weather, terrains, hazards, rooms, Gravity, Tailwind, Safeguard, Lucky Chant) cannot be in a Pokemon's moveset.
• No Item Clause: a Pokemon cannot hold an item.
• No Ability Clause: a Pokemon has to have the No Ability ability.
• Endless Battle Clause: players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from ending the game without forfeiting.

Challenge Code

Gen8MG1OU /challenge gen1customgame @@@ !! Max Level = 100, !! Max Team Size = 6, !! Max Move Count = 4, Obtainable Formes, -Bind, -Clamp, -Fire Spin, -Infestation, -Magma Storm, -Sand Tomb, -Snap Trap, -Thunder Cage, -Whirlpool, -Wrap, -Spikes, -Toxic Spikes, -Stealth Rock, -Sticky Web, Freeze Clause Mod, -all items, -Fake Out, -Wonder Room, -Trick Room, -Magic Room, -Lucky Chant, -Tailwind, -Safeguard, -Gravity, -Arceus, -Calyrex-Ice, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cloyster, -Darkrai, -Deoxys, -Deoxys-Attack, -Deoxys-Speed, -Dialga, -Dragapult, -Eternatus, -Genesect, -Giratina, -Gorebyss, -Groudon, -Ho-oh, -Inteleon, -Kyogre, -Kyurem, -Kyurem-White, -Kyurem-Black, -Lugia, -Lunala, -Marshadow, -Mew, -Mewtwo, -Naganadel, -Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, -Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, -Omastar, -Palkia, -Pheromosa, -Rayquaza, -Regigigas, -Reshiram, -Slaking, -Solgaleo, -Xerneas, -Zacian, -Zamazenta, -Zekrom, -Zygarde-Base, -all abilities, +No Ability, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves

Gen 9 MG1 Ubers Ruleset

Ruleset:
Banned Pokemon

None!

Banned Moves

• Fake Out
• Partial trapping moves (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Infestation, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Snap Trap, Thunder Cage, Whirlpool, Wrap)

Clauses

• Species Clause: two Pokemon with the same national pokedex number cannot be used.
• Sleep Moves Clause: Players cannot use moves that inflict or otherwise lead to inflicting sleep on foes, such as Sleep Powder or Yawn.
• Evasion Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
• Freeze Clause Mod: Limit of one Pokemon frozen per team.
• OHKO Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
• Field Effect Clause: all moves that enable a lasting field effect (weather, terrains, hazards, rooms, Gravity, Tailwind, Safeguard, Lucky Chant) cannot be in a Pokemon's moveset.
• No Item Clause: a Pokemon cannot hold an item.
• No Ability Clause: a Pokemon has to have the No Ability ability.
• Endless Battle Clause: players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from ending the game without forfeiting.

Challenge Code

Gen9MG1Ubers /challenge gen1customgame @@@ !! Max Level = 100, !! Max Team Size = 6, !! Max Move Count = 4, Obtainable Formes, -Bind, -Clamp, -Fire Spin, -Infestation, -Magma Storm, -Sand Tomb, -Snap Trap, -Thunder Cage, -Whirlpool, -Wrap, -Spikes, -Toxic Spikes, -Stealth Rock, -Sticky Web, -Ceaseless Edge, -Stone Axe, Freeze Clause Mod, -all items, -Fake Out, -Wonder Room, -Trick Room, -Magic Room, -Lucky Chant, -Tailwind, -Safeguard, -Gravity, -all abilities, +No Ability, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause

Gen 9 MG1 Underused

Ruleset:
Banned Pokemon

All Pokemon in Ubers or ranked higher than C on the Overused VR.

Banned Moves

• Confusion status moves (Confuse Ray. Flatter, Supersonic, Swagger, Sweet Kiss)
• Detect, Protect
• Fake Out
• Partial trapping moves (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Infestation, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Snap Trap, Thunder Cage, Whirlpool, Wrap)

Clauses

• Species Clause: two Pokemon with the same national pokedex number cannot be used.
• Sleep Moves Clause: Players cannot use moves that inflict or otherwise lead to inflicting sleep on foes, such as Sleep Powder or Yawn.
• Evasion Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
• Freeze Clause Mod: Limit of one Pokemon frozen per team.
• OHKO Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
• Field Effect Clause: all moves that enable a lasting field effect (weather, terrains, hazards, rooms, Gravity, Tailwind, Safeguard, Lucky Chant) cannot be in a Pokemon's moveset.
• No Item Clause: a Pokemon cannot hold an item.
• No Ability Clause: a Pokemon has to have the No Ability ability.
• Endless Battle Clause: players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from ending the game without forfeiting.

Challenge Code

Gen9MG1Underused /challenge gen1customgame @@@ !! Max Level = 100, !! Max Team Size = 6, !! Max Move Count = 4, Obtainable Formes, -Dig, -Fly, -Bind, -Clamp, -Fire Spin, -Infestation, -Magma Storm, -Sand Tomb, -Snap Trap, -Thunder Cage, -Whirlpool, -Wrap, -Spikes, -Toxic Spikes, -Stealth Rock, -Sticky Web, -Ceaseless Edge, -Stone Axe, Freeze Clause Mod, -all items, -Fake Out, -Wonder Room, -Trick Room, -Magic Room, -Lucky Chant, -Tailwind, -Safeguard, -Gravity, -Confuse Ray, -Supersonic, -Swagger, -Sweet Kiss, -Flatter, -Protect, -Detect, -Arceus, -Calyrex-Ice, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cloyster, -Darkrai, -Deoxys-Base, -Deoxys-Attack, -Deoxys-Speed, -Dialga, -Dragapult, -Eternatus, -Gorebyss, -Groudon, -Ho-oh, -Inteleon, -Iron-Bundle, -Iron-Valiant, -Koraidon, -Kyogre, -Kyurem-White, -Kyurem-Black, -Lugia, -Lunala, -Marshadow, -Mew, -Mewtwo, -Miraidon, -Naganadel, -Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, -Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, -Omastar, -Palkia, -Pheromosa, -Rayquaza, -Regigigas, -Reshiram, -Slaking, -Solgaleo, -Xerneas, -Zacian, -Zamazenta, -Zekrom, -Zygarde-Base, -Walking-Wake, -Archeops, -Garchomp, -Genesect, -Iron-Treads, -Scream-Tail, -Azelf, -Corviknight, -Gastrodon, -Kyurem, -Latios, -Victini, -Zeraora, -Giratina, -Kartana, -Melmetal, -Starmie, -Chansey, -Magearna, -Ninjask, -Sandaconda, -Tapu-Koko, -Yveltal, -Blastoise, -Cobalion, -Cyclizar, -Dudunsparce, -Latias, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, -all abilities, +No Ability

Gen 9 MG1 Little Cup

All Pokemon that have evolved or can evolved are not allowed. Played at level 5, all Pokemon and moves are allowed with the level overflow glitch.

Ruleset:
Banned Pokemon
Basculin-White-Striped
Dunsparce
Girafarig
Qwilfish-Hisui
Scyther
Sneasel
Sneasel-Hisui
Stantler
Tangela
Type: Null

Banned Moves

• Fake Out
• Partial trapping moves (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Infestation, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Snap Trap, Thunder Cage, Whirlpool, Wrap)

Clauses

• Species Clause: two Pokemon with the same national pokedex number cannot be used.
• Sleep Moves Clause: Players cannot use moves that inflict or otherwise lead to inflicting sleep on foes, such as Sleep Powder or Yawn.
• Evasion Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
• Freeze Clause Mod: Limit of one Pokemon frozen per team.
• OHKO Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
• Field Effect Clause: all moves that enable a lasting field effect (weather, terrains, hazards, rooms, Gravity, Tailwind, Safeguard, Lucky Chant) cannot be in a Pokemon's moveset.
• No Item Clause: a Pokemon cannot hold an item.
• No Ability Clause: a Pokemon has to have the No Ability ability.
• Endless Battle Clause: players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from ending the game without forfeiting.

Challenge Code

Gen9MG1LittleCup

/challenge gen1customgame @@@ !!Default Level = 5, !! Max Level = 5, Little Cup , -Dig, -Fly, -Bind, -Clamp, -Fire Spin, -Infestation, -Sand Tomb, -Whirlpool, -Wrap, -Spikes, -Toxic Spikes, -Stealth Rock, -Sticky Web, -Ceaseless Edge, -Stone Axe, Freeze Clause Mod, -all items, -Fake Out, -Wonder Room, -Trick Room, -Magic Room, -Lucky Chant, -Tailwind, -Safeguard, -Gravity, -Basculin-White-Striped, -Qwilfish-Hisui, -Sneasel, -Sneasel-Hisui, -Dunsparce, -Girafarig, -Type:Null, +Onix, +Lickitung, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, -Sonicboom, -Dragon Rage, -all abilities, +No Ability

Gen 9 MG1 Monotype Ruleset

Ruleset:
Banned Pokemon
Arceus
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Cloyster
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Speed
Dialga
Dragapult
Eternatus
Gorebyss
Groudon
Ho-oh
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-White
Kyurem-Black
Lugia
Lunala
Marshadow
Mew
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Naganadel
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Omastar
Palkia
Pheromosa
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Slaking
Solgaleo
Xerneas
Zacian
Zamazenta
Zekrom

Banned Moves

• Fake Out
• Partial trapping moves (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Infestation, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Snap Trap, Thunder Cage, Whirlpool, Wrap)

Clauses

• Species Clause: two Pokemon with the same national pokedex number cannot be used.
• Sleep Moves Clause: Players cannot use moves that inflict or otherwise lead to inflicting sleep on foes, such as Sleep Powder or Yawn.
• Evasion Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
• Freeze Clause Mod: Limit of one Pokemon frozen per team.
• OHKO Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
• Field Effect Clause: all moves that enable a lasting field effect (weather, terrains, hazards, rooms, Gravity, Tailwind, Safeguard, Lucky Chant) cannot be in a Pokemon's moveset.
• No Item Clause: a Pokemon cannot hold an item.
• No Ability Clause: a Pokemon has to have the No Ability ability.
• Endless Battle Clause: players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from ending the game without forfeiting.

Challenge Code

/challenge gen1customgame @@@ !! Max Level = 100, !! Max Team Size = 6, !! Max Move Count = 4, Obtainable Formes, -Dig, -Fly, -Bind, -Clamp, -Fire Spin, -Infestation, -Magma Storm, -Sand Tomb, -Snap Trap, -Thunder Cage, -Whirlpool, -Wrap, -Spikes, -Toxic Spikes, -Stealth Rock, -Sticky Web, -Stone Axe, -Ceaseless Edge, Freeze Clause Mod, -all items, -Fake Out, -Wonder Room, -Trick Room, -Magic Room, -Lucky Chant, -Tailwind, -Safeguard, -Gravity, -Arceus, -Calyrex-Ice, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cloyster, -Deoxys-Base, -Deoxys-Attack, -Deoxys-Speed, -Dialga, -Dragapult, -Eternatus, -Gorebyss, -Groudon, -Ho-oh, -Koraidon, -Kyogre, -Kyurem-White, -Kyurem-Black, -Lugia, -Lunala, -Marshadow, -Mew, -Mewtwo, -Miraidon, -Naganadel, -Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, -Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, -Omastar, -Palkia, -Pheromosa, -Rayquaza, -Reshiram, -Slaking, -Solgaleo, -Xerneas, -Zacian, -Zamazenta, -Zekrom, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Same Type Clause, -all abilities, +No Ability

Gen 9 MG1 Bonus Type Ruleset

Players can nickname their Pokemon a type to add that type onto the Pokemon's existing type(s).

Ruleset:
Banned Pokemon
Arceus
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Cloyster
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Speed
Dialga
Eternatus
Gorebyss
Groudon
Ho-oh
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-White
Kyurem-Black
Lugia
Lunala
Marshadow
Mew
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Naganadel
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Omastar
Palkia
Pheromosa
Rayquaza
Regigigas
Reshiram
Slaking
Solgaleo
Xerneas
Zacian
Zamazenta
Zekrom

Banned Moves

• Fake Out
• Partial trapping moves (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Infestation, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Snap Trap, Thunder Cage, Whirlpool, Wrap)

Clauses

• Species Clause: Two Pokemon with the same national pokedex number cannot be used on the same team.
• Sleep Moves Clause: Players cannot use moves that inflict or otherwise lead to inflicting sleep on foes, such as Sleep Powder or Yawn.
• Evasion Clause: Pokemon cannot have Double Team or Minimize in their movesets.
• Freeze Clause Mod: Limit of one Pokemon frozen per team.
• OHKO Clause: Pokemon cannot have Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill or Sheer Cold in their movesets.
• Field Effect Clause: All moves that enable a lasting field effect (weather, terrains, hazards, rooms, Gravity, Tailwind, Safeguard, Lucky Chant) cannot be in a Pokemon's moveset.
• No Item Clause: Pokemon cannot hold an item.
• No Ability Clause: Pokemon have to have the No Ability ability.
• Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from ending the game without forfeiting.

Challenge Code

Gen9MG1BonusType

/challenge gen1customgame @@@ !! Max Level = 100, !! Max Team Size = 6, !! Max Move Count = 4, Obtainable Formes, -Bind, -Clamp, -Fire Spin, -Infestation, -Magma Storm, -Sand Tomb, -Snap Trap, -Thunder Cage, -Whirlpool, -Wrap, -Spikes, -Toxic Spikes, -Stealth Rock, -Sticky Web, -Ceaseless Edge, -Stone Axe, Freeze Clause Mod, -all items, -Fake Out, -Wonder Room, -Trick Room, -Magic Room, -Lucky Chant, -Tailwind, -Safeguard, -Gravity, -Arceus, -Calyrex-Ice, -Calyrex-Shadow, -Cloyster, -Deoxys, -Deoxys-Attack, -Deoxys-Speed, -Dialga, -Eternatus, -Gorebyss, -Groudon, -Ho-oh, -Koraidon, -Kyogre, -Kyurem-White, -Kyurem-Black, -Lugia, -Lunala, -Marshadow, -Miraidon, -Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, -Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, -Omastar, -Palkia, -Pheromosa, -Rayquaza, -Regigigas, -Reshiram, -Slaking, -Solgaleo, -Xerneas, -Zacian, -Zamazenta, -Zekrom, -all abilities, +No Ability, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Bonus Type Rule

Gen 9 MG1 Reevolution

All Pokemon that have evolved gain the base stats from their most recent evolution again.

Ruleset:
Banned Pokemon
Golisopod
Gyarados
Lunala
Milotic
Slaking
Solgaleo

Banned Moves

• Fake Out
• Partial trapping moves (Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Infestation, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Snap Trap, Thunder Cage, Whirlpool, Wrap)

Clauses

• Species Clause: two Pokemon with the same national pokedex number cannot be used.
• Sleep Moves Clause: Players cannot use moves that inflict or otherwise lead to inflicting sleep on foes, such as Sleep Powder or Yawn.
• Evasion Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
• Freeze Clause Mod: Limit of one Pokemon frozen per team.
• OHKO Clause: a Pokemon cannot have Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill or Sheer Cold in its moveset.
• Field Effect Clause: all moves that enable a lasting field effect (weather, terrains, hazards, rooms, Gravity, Tailwind, Safeguard, Lucky Chant) cannot be in a Pokemon's moveset.
• No Item Clause: a Pokemon cannot hold an item.
• No Ability Clause: a Pokemon has to have the No Ability ability.
• Endless Battle Clause: players cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from ending the game without forfeiting.

Challenge Code

Gen9MG1Reevolution

/challenge gen1customgame @@@ !! Max Level = 100, !! Max Team Size = 6, !! Max Move Count = 4, Obtainable Formes, -Dig, -Fly, -Bind, -Clamp, -Fire Spin, -Infestation, -Magma Storm, -Sand Tomb, -Snap Trap, -Thunder Cage, -Whirlpool, -Wrap, -Spikes, -Toxic Spikes, -Stealth Rock, -Sticky Web, -Ceaseless Edge, -Stone Axe, Freeze Clause Mod, -all items, -Fake Out, -Wonder Room, -Trick Room, -Magic Room, -Lucky Chant, -Tailwind, -Safeguard, -Gravity, -Lunala, -Solgaleo, -Slaking, -Gyarados, -Milotic, -Golisopod, Endless Battle Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, -all abilities, +No Ability

 

[Copen]

Sample Teams
Coming soon!

Sample Sets
Coming soon!

Import Sets
Sets to import into the calc to make calcing easier.
Full Dex Import

 

[Copen]

Viability Rankings
All rankings are ordered alphabetically within their tiers. Last updated June 22nd, 2024.

A Ranks

A+
Iron Treads

A
Electrode-Hisui
Genesect
Latios
Tapu Koko

A-
Corviknight
Goodra-Hisui
Kyurem
Scream Tail
Zeraora

B Ranks

B+
Archeops
Deoxys-Defense
Garchomp
Kartana
Ursaluna

B
Azelf
Celebi
Chansey
Gastrodon
Golisopod
Sandaconda
Victini
Zygarde-50%

B-
Dudunsparce
Empoleon
Gliscor
Great Tusk
Kommo-o
Landorus-Therian
Ninjask
Raging Bolt
Roaring Moon
Starmie
Volcarona
Yveltal

----------------------------------------------------------------------UU Cutoff----------------------------------------------------------------------------

C Rank

C
Blacephalon
Blissey
Chien-Pao
Cobalion
Cyclizar
Durant
Gholdengo
Hydrapple
Infernape
Jolteon
Landorus-Incarnate
Latias
Lycanroc
Maushold
Melmetal
Metagross
Noivern
Pecharunt
Primarina
Regice
Slither Wing
Ting-Lu

 

[Copen]

Reserved

 

[glutenfree42]

use ninjask

 

[rarre]

use virizion

 

[R8]

I didnt get the time to play yet but here some very quick thoughts about some of the new gen9 mons:


Absolutely immense threat. Starmie already demonstrated last gen how threatening stab Flip Turn + Blizzard can be (and generally the water+ice offensive combo), thanks to the lack of good bulky waters in MG1. Iron Bundle takes this to a whole other level, thanks to its better SpA, Speed (and thus, crit rate) and STAB on Blizzard. Switching into it is pretty much impossible (especially taking its nasty crit rate and Blizzard's freeze chance into account), and anything slower attempting to force it out just is chipped for free by Flip Turn, and only three relevant Pokemon (Ninjask, Zeraora and Regieleki) are able to outspeed it. This pokemon has very few bad MUs if any, and i'm expecting it to be banned really quickly.


Fairy is a very broken offensive type in MG1 (as only Steel resist it), only balanced by the fact that Fairy is a physical typing, and that most Fairy types are specially oriented and generally have a very shit Atk stat. Iron Valiant not only is a fast offensive Fairy that has access to Moonblast backed up by a 130 base Atk stat and potentially Swords Dance, but also is able to nuke Steels thanks to its access to stab Close Combat, making its stab combination completely unresisted. Has good odds to be broken as well.


Very good bulk and speed, with an access to Amnesia and colorful coverage is for sure interesting. Might be very TWave bait as it probably does not force much out as it only has 65 SpA, but from the replays i watched so far it still seemed to be really hard to kill even when parad.


Has access to recovery, setup in Amnesia and Coil, stab boomburst and giga-broken glare. Setup sets might struggle a bit as it is slow (making it more vulnerable to crits) and para-bait, as it doesnt immediately threaten most mons, which can easily stay and click t-wave.

 

[DiamondDiancie25]

I just wanna take a moment to talk about a couple of new mons myself that I have used and/or witnessed.


There is not a single doubt in my mind that this is the most overpowered mon the new generation has delivered. It came into MG1 OU with its pivot moves, insane koko beating speed, crit rate and power in hand and was ready to slaughter. Every single speedy offensive threat, bar Starmie, is pretty easily 2HKOed by either Blizzard or Hydro Pump, not to mention the insane crit rates giving it serious odds to OHKO a huge amount of the tier. On top of this, there are very few mons that can actually outspeed it. Yes, most of those are Electrics, and thus they can hit it pretty hard and do it first; however, that is where Flip Turn and/or U-turn come in. It both gets away from the electrics and forces them into ranges where they have no way to 1v1 it anymore all with the click of a button. Technically, it has the flaw of extreme physical frailty, but as far as weaknesses on that side go, Rock types arguably want the least to do with it out of everything (aside from Grounds anyway), and all Fightings just take way too much damage and are all slower than it. Offensive play practically does not exist, and Defensive play only does somewhat. Switch-In #1 is Chansey, which thanks to its insane specially defensive profile is a solid switch in, on top of its capacity for spreading paralysis. Switch-In #2 is......itself......and it still gets 3HKOed by Hydro Pump. All other switch ins are mostly soft checks, such as Starmie who can still take serious damage from crits while being slower. It almost feels as if Ground types, who previously were very valuable, have almost all become completely unviable, as if they come in on something as they click a pivot move, and the Ground user lacks a Chansey, Iron Bundle will come in and be practically guaranteed to kill something. This bird is overall just too restricting in the builder and too oppressive to 99% of the mons in the game, and the meta would become much healthier if it were to be banned.


Valiant is a very good pokemon overall, most likely top tier, but whether or not it is actually overpowered or not is to be seen. One one hand, it has an absolutely insane offensive toolkit. It has speed high enough to outpace the Lati twins and Starmie, Swords Dance, and an incredible stab combination. It even has a very high Sp. Atk stat to abuse to get around the physical walls that are actually able to pause its assault, such as using Ice Punch for the occasional Landorus (though with Bundle around, that scenario for the time being is not to be expected). It is not very bulky however, and it is unable to switch into the Steels that it destroys due to it having a weakness to it, and having a Fairy weakness itself with Tapu Koko being around is not ideal. Due to the blatant broken nature of Iron Bundle, it is somewhat hard to fully pinpoint whether Valiant is too much itself, as it itself is outsped and beaten by the bird, but if and almost certainly when it is banned, we will have a much better view of how it performs, and whether it should be on the chopping block itself.


This mon is never going to succeed in this current meta simply due to Iron Bundle's and Kyurem's mere existenses; however, in its own right, it actually seems to have quite a bit of potential. Its main upside is its busted bonkers HP in conjunction with a very high Defense. This makes Ting-Lu one of the absolute physically bulkiest mons in the entire game, up there with Melmetal. It also packs a pretty sweet Attack stat of 110 with stab Earthquake, as well as Stone Edge for coverage, giving it a solid offensive profile to pair with its amazing physical bulk. Finally, it packs Ruination, which is yet another clone of Super Fang, and as Tapu Koko with Nature's Madness has proven anything, it's that being able to halve anything's health in an instant is extremely valuable in this meta. Ting-Lu does have quite a few flaws though. The biggest one comes down to its typing. It is a very fat Ground sure, but it also being part Dark means it is a fat Ground that instead of being able to sit on a lot of Fightings and Fairies, it takes heavy damage from them. Speaking of Iron Bundle, it is the embodiment of Ting-Lu's other problem, which is its special bulk. Even despite the comically high HP it has, only having an eh Special Defense stat in a meta where everything specially offensive is like Oprah giving everyone free old generation Blizzards is not a trait you want in a tank. There is a ton of potential for it to be very solid, as its good traits are very much so, but it also has quite a few crippling flaws, especially for how the meta is currently running


thank you for coming to my TedTalk.

 

[Copen]

MG1 is banning Iron Bundle and Confusion status moves!

Confusion is a mechanic highly reliant on randomness to function. While it was divisive in Gen 8, the best confusion move, Confuse Ray, was restricted to mediocre mons and could not outright cheese wins. With the release of Gen 9, Confuse Ray was most notably given to Magearna, along with being on Iron Valiant and the newly unbanned Giratina, all of which also have Thunder Wave. With these additions, combined with the wisespread use of paralysis which further tilts the odds in the confusion users favor, otherwise fine mons can utilize confusion to cheese past checks in an uncompetitive way. Something had to be done about this, so confusion status moves (Confuse Ray, Swagger, Sweet Kiss, Flatter) as a whole are being banned.

Iron Bundle has proven itself to be a dangerous force in the metagame with it's blazing fast 136 speed, high SpAtk, and amazing dual stabs. It's speed combined with it's high damage stabs limit nearly all offensive counterplay aside from Zeraora, while being able to punish the limited defensive play with its dual pivot moves in U-turn and Flip Turn. On top of this, although Freeze Dry doesn’t work, defensive counterplay is still entirely limited to water types that arent weak to U-turn and Chansey, none of which have been impressive outside of the Bundle matchup and all of which are vulnerable to a Blizzard freeze. Often, the best switchin to Bundle is itself, and whoever loses the Bundle mirror who lose the game outright due to the difficulty of fitting both Bundle and a solid Bundle check. It's pressure in game and it's impact on the builder is clearly too much, and will be the first Pokemon banned in Gen 9.

 

[DiamondDiancie25]

MG1 is banning Iron Bundle and Confusion status moves!

Confusion is a mechanic highly reliant on randomness to function. While it was divisive in Gen 8, the best confusion move, Confuse Ray, was restricted to mediocre mons and could not outright cheese wins. With the release of Gen 9, Confuse Ray was most notably given to Magearna, along with being on Iron Valiant and the newly unbanned Giratina, all of which also have Thunder Wave. With these additions, combined with the wisespread use of paralysis which further tilts the odds in the confusion users favor, otherwise fine mons can utilize confusion to cheese past checks in an uncompetitive way. Something had to be done about this, so confusion status moves (Confuse Ray, Swagger, Sweet Kiss, Flatter) as a whole are being banned.

Iron Bundle has proven itself to be a dangerous force in the metagame with it's blazing fast 136 speed, high SpAtk, and amazing dual stabs. It's speed combined with it's high damage stabs limit nearly all offensive counterplay aside from Zeraora, while being able to punish the limited defensive play with its dual pivot moves in U-turn and Flip Turn. On top of this, although Freeze Dry doesn’t work, defensive counterplay is still entirely limited to water types that arent weak to U-turn and Chansey, none of which have been impressive outside of the Bundle matchup and all of which are vulnerable to a Blizzard freeze. Often, the best switchin to Bundle is itself, and whoever loses the Bundle mirror who lose the game outright due to the difficulty of fitting both Bundle and a solid Bundle check. It's pressure in game and it's impact on the builder is clearly too much, and will be the first Pokemon banned in Gen 9.

Finally MG1 will become an enjoyable experience again

 

[Shandeur]

Use Victini

 

[Low-Key]

Use whatever you wish, I'm not your dad.

 

[Copen]

mg1 posting time
With the super cool tour with a $50 prize pool that everyone should join right around the corner and no samples I will post some mg1 teams so that you bozos do not have to build.

Super cool mg1 teamdump

Also some super cool and attractive mg1 player has added import sets to add to the calc to the original post so that calcing does not take 15 years anymore (you are welcome). Some sets are missing but they will probably be added by the time tour starts.

stop posting one liners you weirdos

 

[R8]

Council agreed to make the last voting slate public (the one that got confusion and penguin banned). The other Pokemon you are seeing there are pretty much our current potential brokens watchlist, and if you are planning to build for the tournament i def recommend keeping those pokemon in mind while building.

Now some quick explanations on who are those mons, and why you should care about them (only speaking on my behalf, not council's)


Other posts in this thread already sufficently covered what that does, but tldr : Fighting-Fairy is an absolutely unresisted stab combination in MG1 (aside from Gholdengo and Aegislash), and since Fairy is physical Valiant is a great wallbreaker thanks to its access to Moonblast and Close Combat backed up by its 130 base atk stat and 116 base speed stat and some interesting options in its movepool like Swords Dance, Agility, TWave and misc coverage moves.


Arguably being the best mon in gen8MG1, and probably the most controversial, Magearna is back in gen9, probably to be an important piece of the metagame once again. Shift Gear + Fleur Cannon sets (Fleur Cannon being physical means you don't care about spa drops!) were very dangerous and sometimes forced lines of building or play that were easily exploitable (ex: forcing a twave on melm, limiting its overall effectiveness a lot). Its extensive movepool made it an interesting addition to most playstyles, including important moves such as TWave, Heal Bell, Volt-Switch or Pain Split.


Kyurem got the banhammer in the early gen8 meta due to how effective it was as a wallbreaker thanks to its access to STAB Blizzard and Stone edge, and even as a sweeper thanks to its access to Dragon Dance. Back then its impact on the builder was pretty significant, pushing melm's usage around ~70% (Kyurem itself taking the second spot with ~60%) and despite that it managed to consistently be a threat thanks to its ability to consistently force progress, even with Melmetal in the equation, which lacks recovery. However, Magearna and Genesect were not allowed back then, and gen9 added some potential checks such as Iron Treads and Iron Valiant, so Kyurem might be fine this time around. Its ability to force progress against steels is not to be underestimated though, and despite its terrible defensive typing and speed it probably might still get a decent number of opportunities thanks to its great bulk (For reference, it takes ~70% from Iron Valiant's Close Combat). I think Hidden Power Fire sets might have potential to have a stronger smack against Genesect while still chunking Magearna and Melmetal pretty decently.


An other pokemon that was not free in gen9: Genesect! Great defensive typing, great coverage (Blizzard, Blaze Kick in particular) complemented by TWave and stab U-Turn makes it both a potentially great defensive pivot and wallbreaker. The meta still did not develop a lot, so there is still a lot of experimentation to be made with this pokemon, especially with shift gear sets and, why not, explosion and steel beam.


Already covered this mon before, but tldr: Amnesia + STAB Stored power is busted even from a 65 SpA stat (reminder that non gen1 mons have their special splitted into two stats like in other gens. Also Amnesia counts as 4 boosts for stored power, which increases its base power by 80), and that combined with a great defensive typing in gen1 psychic + fairy with a great 115 99 115 bulk and access to interesting coverage in Blizzard and Fire Blast makes it a dangerous threat to face.


What would MG1 be without random unmons completely shattering the tier?
The palindrome giraffe might very much among the most threatening pokemon on this list. The reason behind that is quite simple : like Scream Tail, it has access to Amnesia + Stored Power (Reminder that Amnesia counts as 4 stored power boosts). Unlike Scream Tail though, it has access to Agility/Trailblaze and a much higher SpA stat, which makes it able to spiral out of control extremely quickly if left unchecked (As an example, after two Amnesias it is able to ohko melm with very little chip). So far it was able to farm some games, but i still want to see how it will fare in a tournament setting. Might be a bit too much of an on-paper mon, as it is not that bulky (though it lacks weaknesses besides Bug) and needs at least two turns to be set up properly. P.S.:Keep in mind that, since MG1 follows NatDex legalities, and that Girafarig gets access to Hidden Power, Farigiraf does as well.


One of the other unbans, which might seems strange to anyone unfamiliar in MG1 : a cover legendary with 680 BST, on top of being the bulkiest Pokemon in the game in a maxxed EVs metagame, how the hell would that be balanced?
Well first of all, this is not the first time a cover legendary is freed in MG1 : Yveltal was freed ~6 months ago, and ended up being not broken at all - even pretty mediocre in my opinion - and is mostly relegated to defensive roles.
Giratina could be seen as a similar case, as it actually is very passive besides its access to TWave and Draco Meteor, and struggles to make sufficent progress against steels and fairies. Calm Mind + Rest sets saw some experimentation, and while they seems to be decent, they need very long games to get going as they are quickly forced to rest to avoid unlucky crits, this paired with Heal Bell support (Reminder that Sleep Talk does not work in MG1). Generally though, the way it plays tends to not mash up well at all with the fast offensive pace of the metagame induced by gen1 mechanics, as fast offensive wallbreakers usually have quite limited reliable long term defensive counterplay thanks to their high crit rate.

 

[juoean]

ill put some of my vote reasonings

bundle: mon was pretty busted for the reasons given in the ban post, we couldve arguably given a bit more time to make sure that quaquaxal or something wasnt good enough to be reasonable counterplay but banning to keep this out of the tour was prob the better decision lol. we can always retest later, if we wanted to for some reason.

magearna: this mon would prob have been banned if the new gen werent introduced, and the new gen is arguably an even more favorable metagame for it with many new strong mons being fairy weak (eg valiant, ting lu and great tusk tho these arent ohkod at +1, as well as the newly freed kyu and gira.) idt running multiple steels is realistic rn for most teams and given that hp fire has always been a valid (niche) coverage option on mage, its not like u can j plop a genesect and be fine. iron treads is perhaps more important as new mage counterplay (being twave immune + great phys bulk) but its not clear rn how good treads really is tho it surely is better than excadril was lol. also, treads has 4mss and might want to drop eq for bulldoze + iron head, which greatly compromises its ability to check mage (+1 mage still outspeeds treads).

iron valiant: this is the most interesting addition to the tier in gen 9 and while it certainly looks very strong it feels very contributing to the overall health of the metagame as long as it doesnt prove to be j completely broken. in particular its defensive utility being a fairy type that is not weak to ground, and also being a stone edge resist not weak to ground. these didnt rly exist in the meta before, and force mons like garchomp to actually click the right moves whereas before itd basically just pick up a ko whenever it got a free turn.
it has a great speed tier being faster than starmie, and perfect dual stab as r8 noted outside of gholdengo + twave, it doesnt have a pivot move tho and its dual stab doesnt rly hit that hard on neutral targets without crits. pokemon such as deoxys-d are never kod by moonblast into crit moonblast, and mons with middling bulk such as celebi (or palossand lol) are a roll to do so. also valiant usually has to click the right moves to effectively make progress / get its kos.
its fourth moveslot is super free which is annoying, having access to either swords dance, or options like fire punch for gholdengo, ice punch for gliscor, x-scissor for celebi, ig leaf blade for hippowdown & palossand lol. since these moves each have like one target not like u can scout for them either. if this mon does end up needing to be banned itl prob be bc of the fourth move options.

kyurem: this mon has felt rly busted to me from the moment we unbanned, rly strong stab blizzard obv, draco meteor is kind of only needed for the mirror esp with bundle banned since water or ice types where and u could still j run stone edge and be pretty much fine in the mirror, so the moveslots are rly pretty flexible. stone edge blizzard dragon breath roost has no real responses outside of magearna or hoping your non-mage steel doesnt get 30% paralyzed (or 9% frozen), but kyurem also has access to hp fire or earth power for steels, as well as draco if u need the extra power for something or if a non-steel ice resist becomes relevant. and lets not forget dragon dance sweeping sets. i think the one thing rly holding this mon back rn is being weak to broken mage and its weakness to both of valiants stabs, tho ofc valiant needs a crit to ohko and crit moon doesnt ohko at all. i think other council members see steel types as kyurem checks and thats why they arent inclined to ban it at all, i think having your non mage steel switch into dragon breath is a rly bad idea as steels tend to rly hate paralysis.

farigiraf and scream tail: one or both of these mons will prob be banworthy, amn stored power is rly strong, but unlike previous sp users scream tail is really fast while farigiraf has agility and/or trailblaze to boost speed. also farig only weak to bug, scream only to steel and the nonexistant poison, koing them isnt easy and if u take too long to ko then ull j die to boosts. scream at least can be parad and then revenged but hm will u lose in the meantime?; while farig may j 6-0 you if u dont have a first impression user or get fps at the right time. also, they mostly lack shared checks due to the different defensive typings, so u cant generally j add one mon in the builder an expect it to check them both. (exceptions may be certain niche darks like hoopa-u, or copen used alolan muk lol, or maybe stakataka.) also farigiraf gets hidden power in natdex, if u assumed your weird dark type was safe against it it might not be.
the only reason i voted no ban is the usage has been rly low so far for both, also idk whether only one needs to be banned and if so which one.

others: genesect has any coverage it might want but i think it should be fine, shift gear isnt looking like a relevant threat and it has stab uturn anyway so u rly dont want to switch into it every time anyway. shift gear was my main concern about unbanning it. giratina is stuck in a metagame with 3 dominant fairy types tho it ofc doesnt die to moonblast crit from valiant with 150/120 phys bulk, but its not rly a problem for now in suchh a hostile metagame. if fairies start getting banned then it may need to be revisited, as steels tend to not rly be good giratina responses, iron treads doesnt rly do enough damage to gira while other steels dont want twave.

looking forward to the tour ~ looking forward to more heal bell usage especially celebi which seems to have found itself a very comfortable metagame, with both uturn and fires being kind of rare atm, while celebi brings a soft valiant check as well as one of if not the best check to offensive grounds rn with heal bell able to remove glare or bslam paralysis and leaf blade hitting all the grounds weaker spdef.

 

[teamo]

landorus
:pog:

 

[SwordIsBored]

Ban Protect. This thing is unbalanced from first glance no matter what the mechanics document tries to tell you. It is busted, it is viable and can be manipulated with status moves such as Toxic from Toxapex and Salt Cure from Garganacl after using Block with both. Fun fact that was told to absolutely nobody, Protect will linger for the next turn once the opponent is killed by a status move.

My statement from above is proven here where Wailord is able to use Scald whilst also protecting itself from my Melmetal's Body Slam. This can effectively create almost infinite chains unless you run out of PP, this will at least beat two Pokemon most of the time. The only counters I can think of is spamming Protect yourself which doesn't help this debate at all or use a Pokemon with the move Rest. Despite Rest seeming like a good counter on paper, it is only good in two Pokemon (Giratina and Melmetal and even Melmetal is debateable in this).

So this is a move that can make you infinitely invulnerable, be used on the same turn as other moves, isn't intended at all and isn't banned? I have a feeling Fake Out is being unbanned next at this point because you can just switch in a Ghost-type to counter it. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you think this strategy is potent in battle or not. Either way it should be banned for its immensely powerful surprise factor.

 

[Copen]

Dig/Fly are banned from Modern Gen 1!

With the implementation of the invulnerability glitch, which makes all moves with an accuracy check miss against you if you are full para'd on the second turn of Dig or Fly, these two moves have been banned. The new two turn moves like Bounce do not have the glitch, so they are still allowed.

 

[R8]

EDIT: I changed my mind, get rid of it

Re: Protect
The reason why this move was not banned so far is that it never cheesed through when the opponent played correctly. I'd be down to ban the move if someone actually manages to break it somehow, but until then I believe there just isn't any solid justification to ban the move.

Before exposing the arguments backing up my opinion on the matter, I'd like to make a couple reminders or remarks:
-Poison still follows gen1 mechanics. If a Pokemon is hit by Toxic and switch out, its status changes back to regular poison, which is 6% per turn. Burn always kill 6% per turn.
-Protect has 16 PPs. If you click protect 16 turns in a row, you can rack up to 96% turns of damages with burn or normal poison.
-Block/Mean Look + Toxic is a combination that is not available on many relevant pokemon. Here are the pokemon that learns that combination that also are in the VR:

Tapu Koko could run it, but realistically you'd prefer to run the standard pivot set, especially since toxic doesn't help you breaking through Iron Threads, and you can't get the two turns you need against most grounds that might come in attempting to block Volt, such as Gliscor.
Hawlucha already has barely any good switch ins besides Tapu Koko. If you toxic Koko on the switch, they just can switch out and toxic will turn into a 6% poison. Since they run roost, you can't protect stall it anymore. If you trap it instead, it can just volt switch out as it is faster.
The only thing that pokemon has over Chansey is block, literally. (For the record: Chansey is better than Blissey in MG1 thanks to its better Special Attack, while Blissey doesn't offer much more aside from being barely bulkier.) Toxic will not fix Blissey's already poor matchup against steels, and otherwise you can absorb toxic/block with anything faster that has a pivot move to turn it into a 6% toxic.
This mon main answers already are corv and gliscor, the first is immune to Toxic anyway and the second can just uturn out if it switches into block.
First of all, if you somehow get two free turns with this pokemon (which very rarely happen against a competent player, unless you are facing gira stall) you should be murdering the opposing team with Amnesia instead of killing 1 mon at most thanks to toxic. Furthermore, you barely have the slots to fit tect + block + toxic: either you are permawalled by anything with a pivot move or a steel, either you drop recover.

The only reason your opponent would use one of these pokemon is to pull off some trap-tect tactic. When you see these, keep gen1 mechanics in mind and don't play recklessly.

Here is for reference the replay where this screenshot was taken from:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1customgame-1791196937
As stated before, the only reason Wailord would ever be used is to pull off a Block set. The pool of pokemon that learns either block and mean look is very limited, so if you see some uncommon pokemon, it never is a bad reflex to check if they get either block or mean look. Let's take a look at the wailord sequence: turn 11 wailord switches in and takes a blaze kick, and thus faces Victini:

vs
53% / 73%

Let's assume the Victini user checked Wailord's movepool and saw that the whale has access to block. Let's also note that we could argue that at 53%, Victini's health has very little odds to be useful later in the game, especially since since it's in a hypothetical +1 Magearna range (as fire doesn't resist fairy in mg1), and that Victini can take a Scald from anything Wailord can throw at it at this range:
248 SpA Wailord Scald vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Victini: 162-192 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Barring crits but Wailord is slow as hell anyway, so its crit rate isn't that high either)
Edit: I misscalced scald and hpump cases, but I think the point I am making here doesn't change anyway, as the odds for Wailord to be ran to click HPump are fairly low here anyway.

As you have to respect the possibility of the opponent clicking either toxic, scald, or Block I'd argue that the move here was not to click uturn, but to click blaze kick again to push Wailord in Iron Valiant's range after an uturn:
248 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Wailord: 246-289 (45.3 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The only risks you had by following this gameplan is pretty much wailord critting you with hpump, burning either valiant or Victini with scald (mg1 mechanics) or predicting iron valiant coming in taking a toxic, but honestly I think the Victini user here is so behind in the game that I believe this is a very minimal risk to take in this situation.

Clicking swords dance against Wailord after a block also was an huge missplay too in my opinion, as wailord revealed block so toxtect was pretty obvious from there.

My statement from above is proven here where Wailord is able to use Scald whilst also protecting itself from my Melmetal's Body Slam. This can effectively create almost infinite chains unless you run out of PP, this will at least beat two Pokemon most of the time. The only counters I can think of is spamming Protect yourself which doesn't help this debate at all or use a Pokemon with the move Rest. Despite Rest seeming like a good counter on paper, it is only good in two Pokemon (Giratina and Melmetal and even Melmetal is debateable in this).

Taking what I said in the introduction of this post into account, I think almost any good team in the current metagame is naturally prepared to protect strategies. Every time someone lost to toxtect (myself included), the conclusion after reviewing the replay was always the same : better plays could have been made to avoid that. Toxtect can very easily spiral out of control if you don't give yourself the time to think about how you have to deal with it, and - please don't take that personally - seeing how the timer didn't show up even once during that whole game, I doubt you really took every possibility into account.

I have a feeling Fake Out is being unbanned next at this point because you can just switch in a Ghost-type to counter it.

It is not getting unbanned. This is frankly a quite dishonest argument lol, almost no one ever would argue to free that move, and I don't think anyone ever did.

To conclude, I'd like to mention the two instances of pokemon that have so far proven to be effective protect abusers:

Entei was pretty much the best (and maybe only(edit: that's wrong, ninjask can run tect too, see juoean's post)) viable protect abuser last gen. The idea is pretty much burning a switch-in with sacred fire and stalling it out with protect. It was OK-ish at doing so and never really proved to be that hard to deal with, especially since the opponent can often take advantage of Entei spamming protect by switching out, only risking the very unlikely surprise sacred fire into burn, which is a quite bad move to try to do for the Entei user since the risk/reward for doing so is quite terrible.

This one might maybe be broken, as even though it doesn't have toxic, it still has access to block + salt cure. I still want to wait to see how it actually interacts with the rest of the metagame though, and see how it actually plays out in practice.

 

[juoean]

Entei was pretty much the best (and maybe only) viable protect abuser last gen. The idea is pretty much burning a switch-in with sacred fire and stalling it out with protect. It was OK-ish at doing so and never really proved to be that hard to deal with, especially since the opponent can often take advantage of Entei spamming protect by switching out, only risking the very unlikely surprise sacred fire into burn, which is a quite bad move to try to do for the Entei user since the risk/reward for doing so is quite terrible.

the most viable protect user in gen 8 was ninjask. ninjask was like a B+ or B rank mon, entei was borderline unviable. ninjasks fourth move slot is very free and protect was often the move of choice for scouting and/or pp wasting purposes, scouting is useful in relation to final gambit eg if opp tries to sac a weakened mon to final gambit. ofc u cant click protect v mage but vs other ninjask checks such as melm or tapu koko. pp wasting was mainly for melm’s DIB.

im willing to wait a bit longer with protect if thats where the rest of council is at, but to clarify, my concerns are not about deliberate strategies of bad status + protect and somehow trying to line that up to exploit the free turn glitch that swordisbored mentioned above. block toxic shit will never be good.
my concern is that while some pokemon def need all their moveslots, there are some mons that really dont, plus now we have garg that runs protect anyway (it rly doesnt need to rely on protect that much but it doesnt have other moves it particularly wants to fit anyway). there are various viable fire blast users, mostly to check mage, and scald isnt necessarily a bad option on gastro anymore since latis have vanished from the metagame and starmie ofc cannot be burned by scald, there is still kyurem but kyu isnt a great gastro check anyway idk that it wants to switch in on +2 scald.

getting a burned mon to 6% in front of a protect user isnt something u can plan for, but the more usage burn moves and protect get, at some point it will happen. a turn in which one player is not allowed to use any moves that target the opponent, which is basically everything that exists in mg1 other than recover rest heal bell and boosting, is like the definition of uncompetitive? and theres no actual reason to preserve protect, even garg rly doesnt need it and would prob be healthier for the meta with prot banned.
it isnt urgent since the situation is (at least rn) a low probability event, but a turn in which only one player is able to select a move is uncompetitive. (in fact that is a discussion that we had in relation to the ban of agiliwrap in rby uu.) i dont rly think whether someone starts running protect blastoise or smthg in order to auto win off of a free turn is really the point, bc its still uncompetitive even if it “only” means a free ninj acrobatics.

 

[DiamondDiancie25]

Hello back at it again with some thoughts about some things


After the Bundle ban, I wanted to see if Iron Valiant would the next stupid broken mon. From what has been seen so far, I can confidently say that I was right. Valiant is the #1 mon in the tier and is very close to a requirement on teams. Due to its incredible speed tier that jumps over even Starmie and Azelf, the crit rate that comes with it, a stupid STAB combo, incredibly high attacking stats on both sides, and a seemingly endless offensive movepool, Valiant is impossible to counter, and extremely hard to even check. Not all games, but quite a large chunk of games, have practically come down to who's IV gets paralyzed first. The only mons in the tier that really can jump over and cripple or kill it are Ninjask, Zeraora, Koko, and the very rare Alakazam, with everything that is slower than it being one decently likely crit away from getting one shot. Iron Valiant often runs Thunder Wave itself, allowing for good team support and a better perpensity for cleaning up later on. Its movepool is the real kicker though, as Close Combat/Moonblast/Thunder Wave are just the most commonly clicked moves. Valiant has infinite options of kill buttons with which to equip itself. Your team struggles with breaking Starmie and Celebi? X-Scissor. Your team struggles with Gliscor and either Lando? Ice Punch. Your team struggles with physically bulky steels with a Fighting neutrality? Nothing bar Magearna is taking Fire Punch. Bulky Waters? Thunderbolt or Leaf Blade. Great Tusk and Iron Hands? Psycho Cut (or in tusks case Leaf Blade). Hell run Liquidation for Victini if you don't wanna rely on Moonblast for it, and it just goes ON and ON. Yes, it is frail, but it only matters against the mons that are faster than it, and if those mons happen to get paralyzed, GOOD NIGHT. The only flaw that Iron Valiant truly has is a case of 4 Move Slot Syndrome, as CC/Mb/TW are the core of what makes it so threatening, but even this is arguable, as even if it was forced into 3 moves and went with those, it would still be the grossest offensive threat in the tier. After the time of playing the tier that I have had, I am leaning a bit more towards wishing for the ban of Iron Valiant. It has endless versatility that allows it to drop whatever it wants quite easily, while also having its more obvious moves still remain near impossible to switch into, it outspeeds the majority of the tier, its crit rate allows it to pull wins out of its rear end, and heavy paralysis support, that most teams already pack, make the mon impossible to deal with late game, so long as the user is smart enough to avoid users of the move that it cannot drop in one shot bar crits. It is the best pokemon in the tier, and I believe that it holds that position too firmly and causes way too much restriction in building that, with the right 4th move, may be for not.


This one will be a bit shorter. Giratina is...interesting to say the least. Let's get the obvious out of the way: its bulk is hilarious. It takes a ton of neutral hits very well and can even take certain super effective hits with ease. It is a very solid tank, using its stupid bulk to better spread paralysis and deal solid damage thanks to its decent attacking stats and high bp moves on both sides. However, despite its incredible potential as a tank, I don't find it to be broken, at least currently, due to the meta. It is overall very hostile to it, as with Iron Valiant everywhere, and of course, Blizzard, Giratina does not get to abuse its insane defenses for as long as it is normally capable of. I won't go further than that, as more time is needed to fully determine where it falls, but it is a very solid mon, and with certain meta shifts, it could find itself on top one day. We will simply have to wait and see.


Garganacl has started to rise after Salt Cure became recognized for how obnoxious it is to switch into, as it acts like a (not Gen 1 version) Fire Spin that never ends, and 2 of the best types for normally beating rocks, Water and Steel, lose an entire 1/4 of their health every turn, which in conjuction with infinite Protect had some people giving the eyebrow to it. After some time, I have come to the opinion that Garg is alright, but nothing anywhere near overpowered. Standard tank sets are good at spreading chip through Salt Cure, Earthquake helps REALLY accelerate the death of Steels, and having its great bulk in conjuction with Recover is a great trait, but it is supremely held back by its pure Rock typing. Yes, Waters and Steels get drained fast, but since all good mons of those types, bar Melmetal, are faster, they can easily jump over it before it can even start and either force it out or kill it for getting greedy. You could also do a very fun thing and switch out Earthquake for Block, which with infinite Protect means you, in theory, can suffocate any mon that you trap to death, with them only having 1 shot at killing you. This however, is not very good. When it works, it is extremely funny and can flip a game on its head (F in the chat for R8's Valiant), but if you run into a pokemon with pivot moves and recovery, they can just invalidate the strategy by either pivoting out before you get going, or if you do get going, just PP stall your Protects, especially if you have Recover with 32 PP as your healing move. This list is actually not that short, as Starmie, Celebi, Gliscor, Archeops, Koko and even rarer stuff like Milotic and Yveltal are all capable of healing off the damage that Salt Cure does AND get away from it. The Waters and Psychics in particular have Recover, meaning they can easily stall its Protects and still have a few heals left, while all of them also threaten it hard offensively. A lot of the best pokemon have at least one of a pivot move or healing, so you still can either stall Protect or get out before it starts while chipping it. Finally, as it is more of a current meta thing, Iron Valiant loves coming in on a chipped Garg after a Flip Turn or a couple U-turns, as CC without crits still does approx. 75% despite how bulky it is. Garganacl does have some potential, but Block sets are too abusable, and standard tank sets, while solid, are more annoying to teams than threatening. Overall, Garganacl does have some deserved appeal, but I cannot see it being anything meta defining any time soon.

 

[Copen]

Iron Valiant has been banned from Modern Gen 1!

	Copen	R8	juoean
Iron Valiant	Ban​	Ban​	Do Not Ban​

Council explanations will be added later.

Copen

Valiant has no hair

R8

I was on the fence for quite a long time, but I finally came to the conclusion that there is no way for Iron Valiant to not be too much for the metagame in a way or in an other. I think it would be an exaggeration to compare it to some other broken wallbreakers that left their mark on MG1’s history, such as Dragapult, Inteleon or Meloetta-P, but it still is good to the point that you could pretty much slap it on almost any team and never get punished for it, which even though this is not a sufficient argument to ban a pokemon, is already a reason to be concerned about the impact of this pokemon on the metagame.

First of all, we should mention that one big difference this pokemon has with the banned wallbreakers I mentionned is that it does not have access to any kind of pivot move, which means that anything able to take a hit from valiant and either KO it or twave it is technically a check - and a good portion of the metagame fits into this category, so Pokemon such as Magearna, Genesect, Acrobatics Gliscor or Victini, and even some Pokemon that are weak to either of its stabs (granted they don’t get critted), such as Latios, Giratina or Melmetal. Starmie in particular deserves a mention, as it probably is the most threatening pokemon able to revenge kill Valiant, either with t-wave or STAB Psycho Cut, and being itself nearly impossible to switch into. 

That being said, I believe the above counterplay is insufficient, and this for multiple reasons: Often, said checks need to be kept in good shape in order to actually check valiant. Pokemon such as Victini, Magearna or Genesect already are tasked to make good use of their defensive typing in order to take on threats - and honestly forcing these to take damages is not hard task. For example, Victini can be pushed into Valiant’s range if paired with Scream Tails, HP Water Volcarona or Shift Gear Magearna, while Magearna or Genesect can be annoyed or even lured by EQ/HP Fire Giratina or offensive psychics. Asking teams to take on the metagame while making sure they don’t fold to Iron Valiant late game is not really reasonable imo, especially since 1. Some mons are insufficient vs valiant alone as it has very flexible options for its two last slots (for ex Genesect and Gholdengo/Doublade fold to Fire Punch, Gliscor to Ice Punch and Celebi to X-Scissor) and 2. usually its checks fail to do as much progress as valiant just did: yea you can “revenge kill” valiant with magearna/alakazam/celebi/whatever but sometimes all these checks did is either bumping vs their own check or either twave before watching the opposing team clicking the move heal bell. Faster revenge killers exists but unless your name is alakazam you are usually not OHKOing valiant either which could very well either stay or switch out, which are situations Zeraora and Tapu Koko dislike especially in an Iron Treads/Gliscor metagame. Even Ninjask itself has to crit to OHKO valiant lol, which could very well decide to risk a twave to get even more value. Said revenge killers are in an even more dire position if Valiant is behind a sub (which didn’t see much exploration but def had the potential on a mon that can bait in death fodders), and even if they can twave Valiant still gets to heavily damage or KO them in the interaction, which in the end makes the scenario in the Valiant user’s favour.

In other terms, I felt like usually Valiant has the potential to scores at least neutral trades if not positives ones if played correctly, almost regardless of what the opponent decides to do. No reliable Iron Valiant check is as consistently threatening as it besides Starmie and setup sweepers (which do not appreciate t-wave anyway), and while I doubt Iron Valiant’s counterplay hardly has the room to evolve, I believe Iron Valiant is just going to be more and more oppressive as the metagame evolves as we find the most optimal ways to take advantage of its imo too linear counterplay. In my eyes, Iron Valiant already proved to be too oppressive to the MG1 metagame and I felt like it was pretty much bound to become worse and worse to deal with eventually, the Pokemon had decent support from the community to be banned and I wanted the metagame to get rid of it so we could move on and take a look at the potential other threats that might need to be nuked from the metagame. I understand there might have been room for metagame development that somehow would have made Iron Valiant more manageable eventually, but realistically, as the MG1 community is quite small, the metagame often progresses quite slowly and that would probably have taken a good while before we reach to a point where we are quite certain about Valiant’s place in the metagame. However, I am not opposed to give it a second chance in the far future, once the metagame reached a higher degree of exploration and once a consensus is reached on all the potential brokens.

juoean

The gen 9 metagame is still in its early stages so it is hard to have a precise view or analysis of anything. but based on what we do have so far, for me some aspects of valiant feel beneficial to the tier, while others are unclear until there is further meta development. for me there is very little that suggested it was broken or unhealthy (so far), and therefore my vote is Do Not Ban.



iron valiant earned a place on most-every team due to its great speed tier and essentially unresisted dual stab coverage off of its great attack stat, which made it easily the premier revenge killer of the tier. any weakened mon under 117 speed can be revenge killed by valiant, although almost nothing viable is ohkod without a crit, and a number of the top mons are not crit ohkod either. furthermore, because valiant is extremely difficult to switch into, being able to revenge kill something with valiant amounts to reasonably decent counterplay to a pokémon that maybe you don't have other good ways of dealing with.



obviously "being an offensive check to other dangerous mons" is not a basis for saying valiant is balanced, it is basically broken checks broken reasoning, however i have seen little evidence either in games or on paper that the mon is broken in any way. while it has perfect stab coverage, even close combat is not particularly strong by mg1 standards (stabs of common threats like psycho cut, draco meteor, blaze kick, stone edge are all quite a bit stronger ~ even without stab in the case of stone edge), and moonblast which is the stab move that gives valiant its spectacular type coverage is even weaker. outside of a few mons such as garchomp that struggle to actually threaten valiant effectively, there are extremely few relevant pokémon in mg1 that actually have a poor 1v1 matchup against it. kyurem is the main one, arguably dudunsparce depending on how you evaluate glare’s accuracy. otherwise, prominent pokémon ranging from victini/starmie to latios/giratina to magearna/genesect/melmetal to sandaconda all have favorable 1v1 matchups against valiant.

of course, 1v1 matchups are not determinative, but there hasn’t been games where i have seen valiant seem unreasonably oppressive either. often, it is not the most dangerous mon on either side. for example, in my recent set vs rarre, the unambiguously most dangerous mons were rarre’s archeops and my starmies. in my set vs copen my starmie was also a much bigger threat than my valiant at least in game 2. ofc some of this may be metagame adaptation, but ultimately valiant does not have a pivoting move, rly j doesnt hit all that hard, and it has common metagame weaknesses in psychic and fairy, and arguably steel (mostly depending on where you rate melmetal lol), in addition to ofc being crippled by twave. also, even after valiant kos something, you still have to either switch into the various offensive mons that might come in afterward (eg starmie, victini, magearna), or sacrifice valiant for damage or status on them.



mg1 has never been a metagame where you can have defensive responses to every strong offensive threat, and i dont think it ever will be or could be. what you can do in the builder is protect yourself from sweepers (eg magearna, blastoise, koko), and relying on either prediction or revenge killing against other offensive threats that your team might not be able to prevent from picking up kos but you can at least get some sort of advantage or counterplay in return.

for me, valiant falls into the latter group. outside of the small number of mons that actually allow iron valiant to get off a relatively free swords dance, i cannot consider valiant to really be a sweeping threat since there are plenty of forms of counterplay available even if you cannot prevent it from picking up kos: there are several good revenge killers (eg koko, alakazam, zeraora), several strong mons that are never crit ohkod and greatly threaten it in return (eg starmie, magearna, victini), as well as setup sweepers that can setup on it after it kos something and potentially sweep (eg magearna, blastoise, maybe golisopod). any good team has at least one of these mons anyway, and most have 2 or more, you really should not be lacking in ways to gain some advantage against valiant after it has gotten a ko, and if you are, you are probably losing to other things anyway. for these reasons, as of now i think iron valiant is balanced in mg1, and in fact it provides a valuable role in the metagame by providing a near-blanket revenge killer which protects from assorted mons that you weren’t able to fit a check to in the teambuilder. (as well as some cool resists like 4x uturn resist draco immunity and stone edge resist all of which are a bit lacking in the meta otherwise, tho thats going more towards a broken-checks-broken argumentation.)



to the extent i do have potential concerns about valiant, they are: 1 the pokémon that have too much difficulty threatening valiant offensively and suffer massive drops in viability as a result, particularly garchomp. chomper falling off from a unambiguous top 5 mon in gen 8 to arguably unviable in this metagame, almost entirely due to valiant’s presence, is definitely something of note and potentially of concern. if there were a ton of mons in this category id be more concerned but its really just garchomp in terms of top level mons, then like terrakion and maybe great tusk which wouldve been around the edge of the tier cutoff anyway, and shit like shell smash crustle that has basically never been used anyway so who cares. theres some mons that had to alter their movesets to not give valiant free turns like acrobatics gliscor and iron head treads instead of stone edge, but those moves aren’t terrible respective options anyway. 2 just a general concern that the metagame is undeveloped and valiant might be proven to be broken over time eg with certain teambuilds, but that obv isn’t a reason to ban since it is just speculation. also, given that theres a pretty wide variety of mons that are good at taking advantage of valiant, i don’t see any particular reason to expect that.

 

[DiamondDiancie25]

Iron Valiant has been banned from Modern Gen 1!

	Copen	R8	juoean
Iron Valiant	Ban​	Ban​	Do Not Ban​

Council explanations will be added later.

Copen

Valiant has no hair

R8

To be added

juoean

To be added

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[SwordIsBored]

Iron Valiant has been banned from Modern Gen 1!

	Copen	R8	juoean
Iron Valiant	Ban​	Ban​	Do Not Ban​

Council explanations will be added later.

Copen

Valiant has no hair

R8

To be added

juoean

To be added