Garchomp's status in light of Outrage being a tutor move

[Jigglypuff]

I looked for at thread on this subject, but couldn't find one, which surprised me (hope I didn't mess up).

With Outrage being made available to other pokemon, Garchomp has become far more counterable and I think moving it back to OU should be considered. In particular, Ryperior, who with Impish and Max Def/HP, Max Atk. Adamant YacheChomp can only 3HKO with Earthquake (92% chance of 2HKO with Life Orb), and Tauros, who outspeeds Garchomp and who can only be 2HKO'd at min Defense/HP even with Choice Band. (Assuming Rhyperior has Solid Rock and Tauros has Intimidate). Both Impish Min. Atk Rhyperior and Adamant Max. Atk Tauros OHKO min HP, min Defense Garchomp with Outrage if they pack Choice Band. BulkyGyara is only 3HKO'd by Outrage from max Attack YacheChomp and has a shot at only being 3HKO'd even if Garchomp packs Life Orb, and can outspeed and OHKO Garchomp with Outrage after a Dragon Dance. Gyarados also has the option of Ice Fang if it's known that Garchomp doesn't have Yache.

Clearly, a Garchomp back in OU would have to contend with threats it didn't have to before, and now has to choose between carrying Life Orb/Choice Band (or Haban Berry, I guess) to deal with these new threats, leaving it open to Ice attacks, or carrying Yache Berry, leaving it open to Outrage. In light of this weakening of Garchomp's position, I think its tier should be reconsidered.

 

[jujuomi]

Wouldn't Chomp just use Aqua tail to take care of rhyperior? Even w/solid rock. And as it has been said before, many things in UBER have counters but just because they have counters doesn't mean they aren't uber-worthy.

 

[Jigglypuff]

Wouldn't Chomp just use Aqua tail to take care of rhyperior? Even w/solid rock.

It would have to give something else up to have Aqua Tail though.

And as it has been said before, many things in UBER have counters but just because they have counters doesn't mean they aren't uber-worthy.

The point isn't "Garchomp has counters" it's "Garchomp post-platinum is weaker than Garchomp pre-platinum".

 

[Chill]

I did damage calcs awhile back and swords dance earthqauke from Garchomp does something like 80% to Rhyperior if I remember correctly. So if he comes in without taking damage from any prior attacks, stealth rock, spikes, etc he's a great counter.

j/k sand veil made outrage miss.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Ok, so your Rhyperior kills Garchomp, but now Scizor comes in and Swords dance, possibly even getting 2 Swords Dance in before outrage stops, and procedes to bullet punch the rest of your team to death.

People have said it repeatedly but, Outrage is a fairly crappy move for pokemon with no STAB on it. Heatran is #1, Metagross and Scizor are both in the top ten. Not to mention Lucario (who yes, is still quite common) and Jirachi running around. Do you really want to be letting them set up? No-- you don't want to run a crappy move like Outrage just for Garchomp.

Overall, the pokemon who want to use dragon attacks already had Claw/Meteor and could kill Garchomp with them (barring being out-sped or sand-haxed, which was the majority of the time). Outrage tutor really doesn't do much to justify a garchomp re-testing.

That said, I'm sure there's some reason to warrant re-testing someday, but I don't see why that should be anywhere near the top of the priority list.

 

[makiri]

I'm locking this because 1) I don't see it getting anywhere, and 2) Outrage is an incredibly bad move unSTABed and only a couple Pokemon like Salamence and Kingdra can take full advantage of it, the new tutor added a couple checks to Garchomp but I don't think it will be affecting its tier status any time soon. We will re-evualuate Garchomp at a later date but for the time being it stays in ubers.