Fuck Offense - Classic Uber Stall (RMT)

[Taokaka]

Team At A Glance

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This is my current stall team that I have been using since the update of Platinum sprites onto the Smogon server on Shoddy. Like many OU stall teams, the objective is to force switches by abusing Toxic Spikes, Spikes, and Stealth Rock. With smart switching and smart move choices, I generally have about a 90% win percentage with this team. The great defensive combination of Forretress + Groudon + Blissey + Giratina-O is the key to this team's success. Kyogre is used for a nice addition and counter to many Uber walls such as Lugia and Blissey, while Mewtwo was used as wonderful tank saving me from the likes of Bulk Up Dialga. Here is a more in depth look at my team...

Forretress (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Payback

I'm sure that if you have played Ubers in the past few months, you would have encountered many Deoxys-S leads. Well with Forretress here, they're not a problem. He makes the perfect anti-lead in this current metagame. With the combination of Payback+Rapid Spin, I easily beat the lead Deoxys that want to setup Stealth Rock and Spikes. Even if it taunts me I can just switch back in later to set up my own spikes.

I am aware that Toxic Spikes may not be very effective in Ubers, but it allows me to wear down the likes of Palkia, Kyogre, Groudon, and Blissey much faster. Payback also has the benefit of hitting Giratina "hard" since it often switches in while I attempt to Rapid Spin. The Lum Berry allows me to take at least 1 Dark Void from lead Darkrai, which are often scarf varients. I then would switch to Kyogre to take the next one. If he decides to Trick me a Choice Scarf, it doesn't bother me too much knowing that next time he switches in he'll be hit by Toxic Spikes.

The EV's and nature allow me to switch into the likes of Mewtwo and Palkia with relative ease; however I do have to watch out for Fire Blast variants. I may not be able to do much to Palkia, however I can stall it out and scout to see if it's carrying a choice item. Once Forretress has done its job and set up some spikes, I often use it as death fodder later on in the game. I will not sacrifice it too early however generally it cannot last with stuff like Rayquaza and Kyogre attempting a late game sweep.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 204 HP /252 Def / 52 SDef
Calm nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Icy Wind

The best special wall in OU does just as well in Ubers. Blissey has the ability to switch into any form of Scarf Dialga and Palkia with relative ease, and stall it out using Wish+Protect or just wear it down by using Seismic Toss. If Toxic Spikes are on the field, Protect also allows me to build up the amount of Toxic damage my opponent takes each turn. Blissey is also here to give me a solid Mewtwo counter, which beats every variant other than physical Mewtwo, but who uses that? Even if it uses Taunt, Seismic Toss is able to take it out before Mewtwo has enough Calm Mind boosts to KO Blissey.

You probably noticed that I use Icy Wind over Ice Beam or Toxic, and thats because it's very helpful when Rayquaza or Garchomp switch in. Garchomp basically loses it's Choice Scarf if it stays in, and also takes a decent amount of damage from it. Rayquaza becomes insanely slow, and allows my Groudon or Giratina-o to revenge kill it. Icy Wind also makes Mewtwo even less of a pain since I know it no longer has it's speed that makes Mewtwo the threat it is.

The nature is used to increase her Special Defense; however her EV's are designed to take physical hits better. Despite Ubers being completly biased to the special attacking spectrum, she still takes special hits like a champ, and I find the extra Special Defense is quite useless when compared to Defense.

Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 62 Def / 40 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roar

Groudon is probably one of the most important Pokemon on an Uber stall team. It gives me a nice switch-in to Dragon Dance Rayquaza, since it is unable to OHKO me even with a +1 Life Orb Outrage, Scizor, and opposing Groudon. Groudon also brings me the ability to change the weather, which destroys teams that use weather as an advantage. (rain dance, sandstorm, etc)

Groudon also brings my third and final form of residual damage, this time being Stealth Rock. It's been said that Stealth Rock is the best move in the game and it's true. It prevents many things from switching in and out such as Lugia and Rayquaza. Lugia loves switching into Groudon, and it's great to Roar it away knowing that next time it switches in it will have 50% health at best. Roar also lets me build up Spikes and Toxic Spikes damage spreading them around my opponents team. Dragon Claw is here to do some nice damage to the large amount of dragons in Ubers such as Latios and Latias, Rayquaza, and Garchomp. Earthquake is the most reliable STAB ground move Groudon has, so it's quite obvious as to why it's in this set. Plus it beats all the steels that like to switch in to Mewtwo.

The EV's and nature allow me to take physical hits like a beast, and as mentioned above survive a +1 Life Orb Outrage from Rayquaza. I still however hold all the power Groudon has by using an Adamant nature with a large amount of Attack EV's. Lastly the 40 SpD allow me to never be 2HKO'd by a Surf from Palkia in the sun.

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 240 HP / 244 Def / 24 Spd
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Calm Mind

I really wanted something that could absorb sleep, "counter" Darkrai, and switch into various walls such as Toxic Blissey and Lugia with ease. I found Kyogre to be the perfect candidate for that. With Kyogre here, I no longer have to worry about Blissey outstalling my entire team or poisoning my walls. I can switch in and begin to Calm Mind up, as she essentially becomes set up bait. Lugia is similar. All it can do is Whirlwind me away however I generally time that perfectly and Surf it for a nice chunk of damage. After attacking it, Lugia usually dies next turn from Stealth Rock or by one of my other Pokemon attacking it for the KO.

With my EV's I will generally beat Groudon one on one with my large amount of defense EV's. Even Rock Polish Groudon can fall to this, however Kyogre is generally not my primary switch in to that. Kyogre also finds the time to set up against Palkia, which with other sets it cannot do. In fact Palkia usually sets up on Kyogre. The now standard Palkia with Aqua Tail, can only manage a maximum of 31% with Thunder after I Calm Mind once. This allows me to easily outstall Palkia by using Rest whenever I'm at low health, followed by Sleep Talk which has a 66% of using a move thats beneficial to Kyogre. A Modest nature was chosen so that I can keep a lot of the power that Kyogre holds, and take out my opponents faster with Surf.

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 226 Def / 32 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Reflect
- Recover
- Taunt

Generally the psychic type of choice on an Uber stall team is Latias. I really did consider using Latias, however I have always wanted to try out a defensive Mewtwo. Defensive Mewtwo is capable of stopping many Ubers that rely on setting up. The main one being Bulk Up Dialga. I realized that if Groudon was to die by something like a crit, I had no chance of stopping a Bulk Up Dialga. I decided to try this and realized it was exactly what I needed. My first move when facing Dialga is always Taunt. (unless I know it carries a Choice Scarf) I then proceed to Reflect. This forces Dialga to either switch out or attack me with Outrage. Under a Reflect Outrage does absolute shit damage to Mewtwo, allowing me to beat it by using Ice Beam or switching into my Forretress to set up.

Mewtwo also lets me defeat late game Garchomp and Rayquaza. Even if I'm not under a Reflect, a Garchomp's non Choice Banded Outrage can only manage 60%. This allows me to proceed and OHKO with Ice Beam. Even if Garchomp is Choice Banded, with 32 Speed EV's and a Timid nature I hit 334 speed, with allows me to out speed Garchomp by 1 point. Again I can then Ice Beam it for the KO. Rayquaza is much easier to handle. Knowing that I outspeed all kinds of Rayquaza, the best move it can use is Extremespeed which can only do about 35% damage to me. I can then proceed to Ice Beam it for the OHKO. All of this is possible through the large amount of defense EV's. If anyone doesn't think Mewtwo can take a hit, I highly advise you try this set and see for yourself.

Giratina-o @ Platinum Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Substitute
- Thunder

Every stall team needs something to block Rapid Spin, and so I chose Giratina-o. Not only is Giratina-o my spin blocker, but he is also my late game sweeper. He's the one thing that stops me from getting swept by an opposing stall team. I really considered using the standard Giratina, however I liked the ability Levitate and the attacking power is incredibly helpful. Giratina-o also lets me have something to combat against CM Kyogre. Nothing on my team can really switch into Kyogre with ease so I felt like Giratina-o would be my best option.

I chose Thunder and Dragon Pulse to be my two attacking moves of choice. Dragon Pulse is one of Giratina-o's most powerful special dragon attacks, which is the real reason I am using it. It also hits the large amount of Uber dragon types for super effective damage. Thunder was chosen because I really wanted to hit Lugia and Kyogre for super effective damage. Lugia would take a nice amount from Shadow Ball, however Kyogre would not, which is why it is absent from this set. Thunder also lets be do something to steel types such as Scizor and Forretress. Without Thunder they could easily outstall me while I continue to attack and do very little damage.

The EV's and nature allow me for the greatest sweeping potential. A Timid nature lets me outspeed 99% of Kyogre and Groudon, since many do not run max speed with a beneficial speed nature. I also have the ability to outrun Adamant Rayquaza which is common on the Swords Dance variants. When Stealth Rock is down (or 1 layer of spikes) I can always 2HKO opposing Groudon with Dragon Pulse even if I do not have a Calm Mind boost. If I use Modest I can always accomplish this, however I do prefer the extra speed over the power.

Threat List

Below is a list of Ubers and how I would play around them. (stole this from twash o.o)

The Ubers

Darkrai: Lead Darkrai often tend to Dark Void first turn, allowing Forretress to set up one layer of Spikes. I then go to Kyogre to take the next Dark Void. Kyogre also beats the Nasty Plot variant by not being KO'd by a +2 Life Orb Dark Pulse and being able to OHKO with Surf. Blissey does a nice job at stopping it as well.

Deoxys: See Deoxys-A.

Deoxys-A: Forretress stops all lead ones and pretty much any kind unless they have Fire Punch. Mewtwo doesn't really fear any move other than Shadow Ball and can OHKO with Ice Beam.

Deoxys-D: Forretress can set up on it and Rapid Spin away all entry hazards it sets up, Kyogre uses it as set up bait and so does Giratina-o.

Deoxys-S: Forretress defeats lead ones using Payback+Rapid Spin

Dialga: My initial switch in is to Blissey since many carry a Choice Scarf. If it uses Bulk Up I immedietly switch to Groudon. Later on in the game I often predict it's switch in by going to Mewtwo or Groudon, depending if Groudon is still around.

Garchomp: Groudon switches in so I can scout. Choice Band is revenge killed by Mewtwo. Choice Scarf takes a ton from Kyogre, and Groudon can Earthquake. Mewtwo can revenge kill it with Ice Beam.

Giratina: My own Giratina-o can generally beat it one on one, and with Toxic Spikes, Spikes, and Stealth Rock it can't continue to switch in. Kyogre uses it as set up beat unless it has Roar. It can be a problem but thankfully it can't do much back.

Giratina-O: Forretress is usually my primary switch in to hit it with Payback for as much damage as I can hit it with. My own Giratina-o can go for the speed tie with it and OHKO with Dragon Pulse. (unless it has a CM)

Groudon: Groudon is my #1 switch in if it is at high HP to scout. Rock Polish sets can be revenge killed by Kyogre as it cannot do enough with Earthquake (nowhere near). Forretress can stop tank sets that want to set up Stealth Rock, while I can set up my own spikes. Giratina-o can KO Groudon at about 50% health with Dragon Pulse.

Ho-oh: Kyogre just uses this thing as set up bait if it lacks Thunder. Pure special varients fall to Blissey and Giratina-o can take the time to set up a Substitute.

Kyogre: Probobly the biggest threat to this team. Giratina-o is actually my primary switch in, but who likes switching into Water Spout? It usually takes down at least 1 of my Pokemon and can be tough to stop late game. I really do rely on Giratina-o beating this with Thunder. If it can't then I have a good chance of losing. This is one of the reasons Latias is often used over my Mewtwo.

Latias: Forretress can hit it with Payback while it can't do much back. I may decide to use Toxic Blissey to easily defeat non Refresh variants. It really isn't too hard for me to handle.

Latios: Really same plan as Latias, but I may decide to use Toxic on Blissey to make this much easier to handle.

Lugia: Kyogre can set up on it as can Giratina-o, however both can easily be hit by a Whirlwind. Forretress can easily set up on it and it hates Stealth Rock in general.

Manaphy: I usually go right to Groudon to kill the rain, followed by a switch to Blissey to force it into Rest. Once it uses that I go to Giratina-o and Dragon Pulse is. (yea it's very annoying)

Mew: I pretty much lose to any Baton Pass team, however Blissey can usually beat +2 Dialga (unless they have Aura Sphere). I can try to switch around to weaken the Pokemon Mew passes to by using it's Life Orb damage against them but it's really annoying.

Mewtwo: Forretress and Blissey have a fun time with this. Defensive Mewtwo are just stopped by Toxic Spikes which really prevent it from doing anything.

Palkia: Blissey can take one most sets but I often scout for Aqua Tail / Focus Punch. Groudon can switch in to Surf due to Drought, and Mewtwo can try to Pressure stall it's Spacial Rend with Recover. It can be a problem.

Rayquaza: My first switch in is Groudon which isn't exactly the greatest counter. I try to not let it set up but thats easier said than done. Mewtwo can KO it before it has the chance to set up a Swords Dance / Dragon Dance, but if it switches in on Kyogre my best option is just to Surf it forcing it into Outrage since neither Earthquake or Extremespeed OHKO Kyogre.

Shaymin-S: Blissey pretty much stops it, however Leech Seed can be really annoying and gay. Sometimes I switch right to Mewtwo just to Taunt it, then I switch back to Blissey. It's really the best I can do since SubSeeding is really annoying.

Wobbuffet: *wonders why twash had writing here*

 

[Amphetamines]

Hey Toakaka,

On you lead, Forretress, does seem like a great option to set up entry hazards, alike spikes and toxic spikes and whatnot. However, Forretress will almost always have to switch out to some of the most common leads, making your entry hazards unable to be set up.

First off, Groudon is a popular lead ATM;

| Rank | Name | Lead
| 4 | Groudon | 1123 |

It's at the #4th spot. This may seem completely irrelevant, however Groudon can OHKO Forretress with it's unique ability drought in play with Fire Punch. Not many Groudon run Fire Punch, however it can be especially crucial that you do not loose Forretress, one of the biggest Pokemon to use on an Uber Stall team.

Also, I would like to mention that running Lum Berry over Leftovers is not worth it to only get up one layer of spikes in the beginning of the game against Lead Darkrai, and then revealing 1/3rd of your team (Forretress and Kyogre) can give your opponent the advantage.

Lead Kyogre also gives Forretress problems, as they usually run 252 HP / 252 SPA @ Modest, as it can OHKO Forretress with Water Spout (Scarf) or Surf (T-Wave Lead). Kyogre itself can mean huge problems for this team, as Specs Water Spout 2HKO's Blissey.

What I want you to do to fix these problems, is basically switch Forretress's and Groudon's places. Forretress is not a great lead in the Metagame, and can easily be set up upon by even the Deoxys forms. Groudon makes an excellent lead; it scares off Dialga, 2HKO's any Deoxys form, etc.

Next, I would like to ask why you run Bulky Mewtwo? Mewtwo on a Stall team can be a great asset just because it can outspeed Darkrai, and OHKO with Aura Sphere. Also, Bulky / Physical is not much at all without Will-o-Wisp, so I would like to suggest this set:

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SPA / 252 SPE
Timid Nature
~ Taunt
~ Calm Mind
~ Aura Sphere
~ Ice Beam / Shadow Ball

Mewtwo can easily beat Wobbuffet and Darkrai when paired together, simply just Taunt Wobb and Aura Sphere Darkrai, whom destory stall teams. Mewtwo still has great bulk with Calm Mind, and can even sweep time to time. Ice Beam or Shadow Ball is all a matter of preference; it's up to you. Ice Beam can hammer incoming Dragons, while Shadow Ball get's perfect coverage along Aura Sphere.

As mentioned before, you have a pretty big Kyogre weakness. Nothing can safely switch into a Water Spout / Surf, and Thunder takes care of your own Kyogre. How do we solve this? I would suggest Latias. Standard CM OR Wish Latias. Up to you, as Kyogre hates Latias more than anything, and Latias can easily set up on Kyogre.

Lastly, I would like to mention Calm Mind Blissey. Kyogre running a Rest / Sleep Talk / Surf / Ice Beam REALLY hurts the team. In my opinion, Blissey always is set up fodder for a lot of Pokemon, so Blissey running a Calm Mind set, and Latias running a Wish set could be extremely viable here.

I'll see what other people have to say about Gira-o

GL!

 

[franky]

Problem:

You lack defensive pressence to stop SD Groudon.

+2 Earthquake vs Kyogre - 109.41% - 129.21%

+2 Earthquake vs Foretress - 109.32% - 128.81%

+2 Earthquake vs Mewtwo - 106.25% - 125.48%

+2 Dragon Claw vs Giratina - 133.33% - 157.37%

+2 Earthquake vs Groudon (your intial switch in) - 91.58% - 107.92% (OHKO with SR and a slight chance of OHKO)

Point is Blissey will switch out and nothing can take it. Due to its impressive bulk Groudon has, it can take hits from Mewtwo and Giratina OHKO back. If Groudon is with a Wish passer, your going to have a tough time.

Groudon: Groudon is my #1 switch in if it is at high HP to scout. Rock Polish sets can be revenge killed by Kyogre as it cannot do enough with Earthquake (nowhere near). Forretress can stop tank sets that want to set up Stealth Rock, while I can set up my own spikes. Giratina-o can KO Groudon at about 50% health with Dragon Pulse.

I can tell you didn't mention SD Groudon and it is a threat.

How to fix it:

Lugia @ Leftovers
Pressure
Bold
252 HP / 52 Def / 204 Spe

- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Reflect

Find a place and replace Mewtwo imo. It plays a similar role because it can tank hits from Garchomp and Rayquaza and finish with Ice Beam. Roost is essential to prolong your health while Reflect helps you cushion Groudon blows and physical hits (very important in Ubers) Toxic helps wear down opposing walls. Although Whirlwind can go in that place If you like. Lugia can dodge Groudon's dreaded STAB move and can place up Reflect to aid the entire team or strike with Ice Beam. The speed lets you outspeed Adamant Groudon which usually is w/ SR. If its Jolly your other memebers can tank the hits and wear it down. Adamant is the concern and you can outstall it. Pressure is sweet because it can slice down those crucial Stone Edge PP. While you Roost away.

Conclusion:

Lugia needs a place for the team. If there is any new problems tell me, I have decent experience with Ubers.

 

[Amphetamines]

+2 Earthquake vs Mewtwo - 106.25% - 125.48%

Mewtwo outspeeds Jolly SD Groudon. It can Ice Beam or set up Reflect.

Mewtwo @ Timid, 32 SPE EVs = 334

Groudon @ Jolly, 252 SPE EVs = 306

 

[twash]

Forretress should have Leftovers. If you have a good switch in to Dark Void Darkrai there is less of a need to use Lum Berry, especially as you aren't attacking lead versions but setting up Spikes. Leftovers is a superior option in Ubers as it helps Forretress come in on attacks such as Choice Scarf Palkia's Spacial Rend much easier. Due to the fact that Forretress can also often force switches as the opponent doesn't want to stay in and let you set up entry hazards, Forretress can usually get two turns of Leftovers gain if you play it right (nullifying Stealth Rock damage, essentially). I don't know why the 52 Attack EVs are there but I would personally run them in SDef (252 HP / 252 SDef). Even though it is a small amount of EVs it gives you 5.7% better Special Defense which is a pretty big increase. I would just rather the EVs go somewhere where it is likely to help the cause of setting up Spikes!

204 HP on Blissey is a huge waste of EVs in my view. I know you have designed the Blissey to take physical hits well too, but in all honesty I would run 252 Def / 248 SDef / 8 Spe. With the suggested EV spread you are gaining 7% better Special Defense at the cost of 7.8% Defense. Blissey needs to SDef more than Def in Ubers if she wants to take hits like Choice Specs Draco Meteor from Dialga, or Choice Specs Surf from Kyogre. Let's face it - Blissey isn't exactly wanting to take Outrages from Rayquaza, and non-attack EVed Groudon are hardly a threat to your team.

It is pretty obvious Kyogre is a huge problem to this team, as a Choice Specs Water Spout will basically do tons of damage to everything on your team. I am going to suggest Rest / Sleep Talk / Spacial Rend / Thunder Palkia over Kyogre (with a Calm nature, 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spe). While it's certainly an odd choice, it can switch into Choice Kyogre with ease (barring Choice Specs Thunder), taking 27.60% - 32.55% from a Modest Choice Specs Water Spout. Thunder only has a 0.07% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock in play, allowing you to switch out to Groudon for a "free" Stealth Rock / Roar etc. Thunder's accuracy is only 70% without rain but Kyogre is pretty omnipresent in today's metagame and it is what Palkia is switching into anyway. Spacial Rend is basically a good STAB move that can still come of a good Special Attack stat (336). You can also play mind games with the opponent as they may decide to use ExtremeSpeed with Rayquaza if you haven't shown off Palkia yet, thinking you will faint after Stealth Rock damage, only for you to always survive and hit back with a STAB Spacial Rend.

On top of this, I suggest Giratina over Giratina-O. Giratina can run Calm Mind / Rest / Sleep Talk / Dragon Pulse to have fun against Calm Mind + Rest Kyogre (Pressure stall) and can set up on Blissey still. It means you can fare slightly better against Groudon too as it fails to 2HKO with a maximum Attack Life Orb Dragon Claw, even after Stealth Rock (provided you run the standard 240 HP / 252 Def with Bold).

I would possibly run Toxic over Icy Wind still just to make life easier against Calm Mind Lugia in case Mewtwo is gone, but if Icy Wind really works for you, stick with it. I can't see many Rayquaza / Garchomp switching straight into Blissey (hi Toxic), but if they do so for you, definitely stick with it. It would mostly be for Lugia though, who escapes Toxic Spikes & Spikes.