VGC Flying Feraligatr! First VGC RMT

[eyreland1055]

This is my first VGC team and so far I've been doing pretty well. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Note: I have already made this team in game, so I can not change natures, egg moves and EV spreads cannot be changed easily

Togekiss@ Sitrus berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248HP/8Def/252SpD
-Roost
-Tailwind
-Air Slash
-Heal Bell

Togekiss' job is to put up tailwind support, then to live long enough to do it again if necessary. In the meantime it gets rid of burns and paralysis and screws with the opponent with its ridiculous 60% chance of flinch. I usually start out with Togekiss and Feraligatr and get tailwind up as soon as possible. Because of this, Prankster taunt users, and taunt users in general (Togekiss is slow) are a big problem. If I notice a taunt user, I try to use air slash to flinch it so it can't taunt me, but like I said, Togekiss is slow.

Feraligatr@ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
-Protect
-Waterfall
-Ice punch
-Rock Slide

Feraligatr hits like a truck, because of the boosts it gets from sheer force and life orb, its base attack is somewhere around 210, try taking a STAB waterfall from that! I generally use protect to allow for Togekiss to get a tailwind up, then spam Rock slide and watch health bars plummet. If there is a specific threat I need to get rid of, I use waterfall (or ice punch for dragons) and I can generally OHKO (if not, I have Togekiss use air slash on them the same turn and they're dead anyway). Often he steals the show early on but doesn't last long enough to deal with late game threats (if they save dragon types, other zards, or Talonflame for the end, I'm in trouble).

Scizor@ Occa Berry (need to change this)
Ability: Technician
Nature: Careful
Evs: 252HP/228Def/24Spe
-Roost
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Swords Dance

I tried to make him as bulky as possible. basically his job is to stay alive long enough to SD a few times and start sweeping with Bullet Punch. Roost lets him live longer, but sometimes the lack of Protect hurts, especially if he's SDed a few times, but their's a fire type move coming. I need to change his held item, because he still usually gets OHKOed by fire type moves. I'm also considering changing his EV spread to make him hit harder.

Charizard Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Modest
Evs: 4HP/252SpA/252Spe
-Solar Beam
-Protect
-Air Slash (replace with Ancient Power? Dragon Pulse?)
-Heat Wave

Charizrd's job is to kill everything with heat wave (unless it's a water type, in which case Solar Beam). Air Slash doesn't get much use and after Feraligatr's out I have trouble taking down Talonflames and other Zard Y's, So I'm considering replacing it with Ancient Power (which is usually an OHKO on Zard and always on Talonflame). Also, everything but Feraligatr struggles with Dragon types, so maybe Dragon Pulse would be best? (On the other hand, the ability to Air Slash on both Charizard and Togekiss could be useful, but it doesn't really get much use)

Cresselia@Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Quiet (not the best, but I can't change it now)
EVs: 252HP/172Def/84SpD
-Skill Swap
-Icy Wind
-Protect
-Helping Hand

I only use Cresselia when I see Kangaskhan on an opponent's team (take away parental bond and they usually don't know what to do) but any other time Togekiss works so much better as a bulky supporter and speed setter that I'm considering replacing Cress.If I do, I'd still wan't it to be a good check to some of the more powerful megas the rest of my team has trouble taking down.

Venusaur@Miracle Seed (need to replace)
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Modest
EVs:4HP/252SpA/252Spe
-Solar Beam (Giga Drain?)
-Sludge Bomb
-Protect
-Synthesis

Venusaur seems so redundant with Mega Zard Y that I hardly ever use him. I don't really need two speedy special attackers, especially with Tailwind. He's also too reliant on sun and just doesn't seem to have the coverage I need. I'm considering replacing him with an Assault Vest Snorlax to use when Feraligatr just doesn't have enough bulk (or when the opponent has strong electric types), but that might leave me with too few special options. Maybe Adaptability Dragalge?

Let me know what's good, what's bad, and what I need to change, especially for the parts I have in parenthesis and for the last two slots on my team.
Thanks

 

[haxiom]

Hello eyreland1055 , and welcome to Smogon!

Unfortunately, this RMT is currently not following the rules which can be found in the RMT Resource Thread; specifically, this thread violates rule #4, because you lack sufficient descriptions for each Pokemon on your team. As such, I am afraid that I will have to lock this thread for the time being. If you would like this thread to be reopened, feel free to PM me with your updated RMT, and I would be happy to reopen this thread for you. If you need help making an RMT up to the required standards, I recommend that you carefully read the RMT Resource Thread and check out other RMTs from the Team Showcase and RMT Archive for some examples.

Good luck with your team, and have a nice day!

EDIT: Reopened!

 

[Yagooar]

I would recommend replacing the scizor with a hitmontop, gives you access to fake-out(super important in VGC) and also to intimidate or technician.

 

[Ksh13]

Hey there, cool to see someone using Feraligatr. Will go over each pokemon seperately:

Togekiss-First of all, don't run Heal Bell. It is just not viable for VGC. Togekiss also actually needs Follow Me, but if you already have it as a Togekiss ingame you can't get that because it is learned by prior evoution. So instead of Heal Bell I would suggest Protect, since it is always convenient and possible to learn trhough TM. For EV's it would really be better if you could get some more investment into Defense, since Togekiss already has a solid enough Special Defense. Tailwind, Air Slash and Roost looks good
Feraligatr-Nature and EV spread looks good, so does the three first moves. Thing is, although it is an egg move, Feraligatr really needs Dragon Dance imo. Another egg move it would really want is Aqua Jet, but I guess it is possible to work your way around that with Rock Slide, although Rock Slide is not the move I would prefer. Other than some of the moves it looks solid to me
Scizor-So, SD, Bug Bite, and Bullet Punch is solid. If you want Protect, I would suggest switching it with Roost. Scizor isn't really the pokemon that most often gets the opportunity to Roost up, it would much rather get up a SD or just deal damage. For item I would suggest eihter Lum Berry or Life Orb, depending on what you prefer for it. Changing the EVs to give it more Attack also sounds like a good idea.
Charizard-Looks like a standard, solid Charizard Y set. Instead of Air Slash, you could use Ancient Power to surprise Talonflame and Charizard as you said, or go for Overheat, which OHKO's so many things, like Kangaskhan and others.
Cresselia-For Cresselia, I would suggest switching Skill Swap to some kind of Psychic-type STAB like Psyshock and Psychic. Quiet nature is not the best, but if that is what you have to work with, then I assume it is okay. Protect is not really neccessary on Cresselia, consider switching it to Moonlight. If you add Moonlight, then Rocky Helmet would be an item that works well. Rocky Helmet makes Cress laugh of Kangaskgan. Leftovers is not the best on Cress, Sitrus Berry is a better option. The EV spread looks nice, I've used a similar spread with great success.
Venusuar-Venusaur does work very well with Charizard, but if Charizard is not a pokemon you bring often, then replacing it sounds possible. But if you want to keep it, I would suggest giving it Life Orb and swapping Synthesis for Sleep Powder. If you want to get rid of Venusaur, you could replace Venusaur with Amoonguss. I don't know how good it would work, but getting Rage Powder redirection is always good, as well as those oh so annoying Spores.

These are some of my suggestions for improving the team, good luck with using your team :)

 

[eyreland1055]

Would Swords Dance work on Feraligatr? Since he already has the speed support from tailwind. I'll also consider re-breeding Togekiss to get follow me (but togepi is so annoying to breed) I'm also considering replacing mega zard y because sun is not helping my team at all, but I'm not sure what to replace it with.

 

[Ksh13]

Would Swords Dance work on Feraligatr? Since he already has the speed support from tailwind. I'll also consider re-breeding Togekiss to get follow me (but togepi is so annoying to breed) I'm also considering replacing mega zard y because sun is not helping my team at all, but I'm not sure what to replace it with.

I don't know if Feraligatr has space in its moveset to fit in Swords Dance, but feel free to try it out. Also, if you are going to rebreed Togekiss, you should breed it with a Bold nature because Togekiss really wants that physical bulk. Instead of Charizard, you could maybe put in Heatran. Heatran also really likes to switch in on Fire-type moves targeting Scizor. Speaking of Scizor, if you are getting rid of Charizard, you might want to make that Scizor a Mega Scizor. In addition I do feel like your team kind of needs something with high speed, at least as quick as Charizard. But I don't know what that would be.

 

[qwerts]

Mega Salamence steamrolls you, I'd reccomend a steel like aegislash that can at least switch in on its return instead of scizor. Feraligtr is not a very good poke, gyarados makes a far better offensive water.

 

[eyreland1055]

I don't get how gyarados is "far better" or how Feraligatr is "not a very good poke". He's got slightly more HP, way more special bulk, but Feraligatr has more physical bulk (and isn't VGC more physical than special anyways?) They have about the same speed (and tailwind more than makes up for the slight difference). I suppose gyrados' main perk over feraligatr is his 125 attack vs feraligatr's 105, but because of feraligatr's ability (Sheer Force) and his life orb, and that all of his moves have secondary effects, his attack is something like 105 (base attack) *1.3 (sheer force) *1.33 (life orb) which is about 182 base now with no recoil damage, and, unless I'm wrong, his IVs and EVs are also multiplied, making him even more powerful than the calculation above. Gyarados also has an unfortunate rock slide weakness and 4* weakness to electric, which my team definitely doesn't need. Unless gyarados has an amazing move pool I don't know about, or intimidate or moxie is far better than I think it is, I'm gonna stick to Feraligatr (Unless I decide to try out Mega Gyarados).

I would use heatran, but I already caught it with a less than great nature and I've got no way to get another until I beat Alpha Sapphire (which is not likely to happen any time soon). It's the same for most legendaries, so I'll probably be trying to go mostly legendary free.

What I've noticed is that speedy electric types (Zapdos, thundurus) are huge problems, as are some trick room teams, if I could get ideas for counters for those, that's be great.

Once I get a bit more feedback, I think I'll take my edited team to Pokemon showdown and see how it goes, then I'll probably be back here with the results.

Thanks for all the help

 

[qwerts]

I don't get how gyarados is "far better" or how Feraligatr is "not a very good poke". He's got slightly more HP, way more special bulk, but Feraligatr has more physical bulk (and isn't VGC more physical than special anyways?) They have about the same speed (and tailwind more than makes up for the slight difference). I suppose gyrados' main perk over feraligatr is his 125 attack vs feraligatr's 105, but because of feraligatr's ability (Sheer Force) and his life orb, and that all of his moves have secondary effects, his attack is something like 105 (base attack) *1.3 (sheer force) *1.33 (life orb) which is about 182 base now with no recoil damage, and, unless I'm wrong, his IVs and EVs are also multiplied, making him even more powerful than the calculation above. Gyarados also has an unfortunate rock slide weakness and 4* weakness to electric, which my team definitely doesn't need. Unless gyarados has an amazing move pool I don't know about, or intimidate or moxie is far better than I think it is, I'm gonna stick to Feraligatr (Unless I decide to try out Mega Gyarados).

Gyarados has intimidate which more then makes up for the lost attack, and doesn't need to run sheer force life orb to get power while still being able to run effective t-wave sets, taunt sets, and DD sets as well as choice band sets. Mega Gyarados isn't good in the current meta don't use it. Gyarados has support as well as offensive presence which feraligtr sadly does not, especially without DD. Also gyarados still gets secondary effects on his move which feraligtr again, does not.

Don't limit yourself to legend free lol just use like the wifi room or something, just saying I don't want legends doesn't change the fact that mega sala still destroys you.

For TR you could run taunt gyarados :3. sleep powder > synthesis on venusaur would be a good check as well, TR on your own cress to counter theirs if you want, and serene grace air slash can be used as a check.

You could be having trouble with electric types because your redirector and two other mons are weak to electric with only one weak resist .-.
Lighting Rod rhydon and rhyperior are both strong picks, rhydon for bulk (with eviolite of course) and rhyperior for damage. I'd reccomend them over scizor as they'd also alleviate your mega salamence weakness a bit.

 

[eyreland1055]

I don't think I need support on my sweeper, that's what Togekiss is for, but I'll look into it. Follow me support for feraligatr is great, it lets him last long enough to take out a couple of threats and, if togekiss lasts long enough, it lets scizor get a free sd or two. I took off mega zard and venosaur (which isn't that great without the sun) and replaced them with an assault vest snorlax and an amoonguss. I'll update my original post once I decide for sure on movesets, but until then, any advice? What I see now is problems taking out things like ferrothorn or metagross because of the loss of zard, and mega scizor doesn't seem to have much over scizor, so maybe a different mega? I also see a potential problem with too much physical attack and not enough special, which does make mega salamence a huge problem (although feraligatr's ice punch does something around 80% damage even after intimidate).

I'm looking at that lightning rod eviolite rhydon, but that terrible special defense is kind of scaring me. Maybe there's a spot for mega sceptile on my team?

I would consider more legendaries, but since I'm making this team in game, and I already caught most legendaries before I cared about natures or IVs, I'm legendarily challenged right now, so I'd prefer to use alternatives to legendaries if possible, it just makes life so much easier.

Here are some replays. Any advice you could give would be great

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-232528289

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-232530231

 

[Yellow Paint]

Well, I can tell you for sure that av snorlax is not a good choice. Why use that if you have a free spot for mega kangaskhan? Kanga provides amazing utility in fake out and another (more reliable) set up sweeper.

On that note, having two redirectors seems overkill, don't you think? since you apparently can't get a follow me togekiss, which is practically the only reason to use it, how about you replace it with a talonflame, one of the best twind setters around?

It seems you've ignored a few of the suggestions given before me, so I'll go ahead and repeat them. Replace scizor for aegislash: after your other changes, you've made yourself remarkably physically biased, and if you decide to use mega kang, you'll have three setup mons. Also, you're beaten 100% by opposing aegislash with your latest changes, and an aegi of your own gives at least one answer.

Or, you could ignore my previous suggestions (besides aegi) and bring back zard and venu. They're honestly more balanced than your new changes. If you do that, I strongly second qwerts' suggestion of replacing togekiss for lightningrod rhydon or rhyperior, as they make you not instalose to tflame and mence and redirect crucial twaves.

edit: whoops, assumed you were dd gatr, so subtract 1 whenever I mention setup sweeper. Yeah, gyara is much better than gatr with intimidate and flying type, and access to taunt makes it a great tr check. I can see you're pretty invested with your title though, so you don't HAVE to replace gatr if you don't want to. It's your team, after all.

 

[eyreland1055]

I am going to breed a follow me togekiss, and it's also really good for setting up tailwind (which feraligatr really appreciates), I'll replace scizor for aegislash if I can find a good one to breed from online (genderless pokemon are really annoying to breed if you aren't starting from a good one). Mega khan is looking more attractive by the moment. My problem with zard and venu was sun hurts my team more than it helps them (weakens feraligatr's waterfall and makes scizor, or aegislash weaker to fire) and venu is reliant on sun to keep its speed up. I really don't like talonflame (look at me! I'm an orange pigeot with one of the laziest names in pokemon history!) I like gatr becaus I just need something to hit hard, and with tailwind set up, gatr does it great. I'd consider an eviolite rhydon, but it's special defense is so terrible I don't know how reliable it'd be. With that said, what about cress and amoonguss? (for strong electric teams I use amoonguss for rage powder instead of togekiss, but having 2 of them does feel wierd and cress just feels like dead weight)

 

[ProjectTitan313]

I am going to breed a follow me togekiss, and it's also really good for setting up tailwind (which feraligatr really appreciates), I'll replace scizor for aegislash if I can find a good one to breed from online (genderless pokemon are really annoying to breed if you aren't starting from a good one). Mega khan is looking more attractive by the moment. My problem with zard and venu was sun hurts my team more than it helps them (weakens feraligatr's waterfall and makes scizor, or aegislash weaker to fire) and venu is reliant on sun to keep its speed up. I really don't like talonflame (look at me! I'm an orange pigeot with one of the laziest names in pokemon history!) I like gatr becaus I just need something to hit hard, and with tailwind set up, gatr does it great. I'd consider an eviolite rhydon, but it's special defense is so terrible I don't know how reliable it'd be. With that said, what about cress and amoonguss? (for strong electric teams I use amoonguss for rage powder instead of togekiss, but having 2 of them does feel wierd and cress just feels like dead weight)

Rhydon takes special a lot better than you'd expect.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 147-174 (79.4 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Specs Hydreigon Draco is pretty much an instant kill on anything that doesn't resist it. Surviving that is a feat in itself. You can Megahorn it right back too, if you want.
Here's my baby, if it interests you at all:

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Brave, 36 HP, 204 Atk, 12 Def, 252 Sp. Def (4 EVs are wasted running Brave, but it allows you to rampage TR teams and beat Aegislash. Well worth the loss.)
Ability: Lightningrod

- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Ice Punch / million fillers
- Drill Run

Hits like a truck, Drill Run is an extremely low-distribution Ground move that gives you STAB with no worry of hitting your ally; you can run EQ if you want though. Better for Aegislash / spread damage is nice.
Protect is a big advantage Rhydon has over AV Rhyperior and is highly reccomended.
Ice Punch gives nice coverage / Lando-T and Mence hate it / is basically a "filler" slot for Rhydon's large array of coverage moves including Megahorn (Cress, Latios, Hydreigon), Hammer Arm (Khan), Fire Punch, secondary Rock/Ground STAB like Stone Edge/EQ, etc.
EVs hit hard and let you survive 2 EQ's from Adamant Scarf Lando-T, while being impressively bulky on the special side.
Just keep it away from WoW and 4x SE moves and it'll rape stuff. Puny hits like Thundy HP Ice or Terrakion's Close Combat are not to be feared.

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 36 HP / 12 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 151-179 (81.6 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
204+ Atk Rhydon Drill Run vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 158-188 (94.6 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (def drops from CC = dead. EQ KO's after def drops too)
252 SpA Expert Belt Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 67-82 (36.2 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (the defensive sets do hilariously pitiful damage)
204+ Atk Rhydon Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thundurus: 92-110 (49.4 - 59.1%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 36 HP / 12 Def Eviolite Rhydon on a critical hit: 134-158 (72.4 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (even on the good days, MegaMence is crying)
204+ Atk Rhydon Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 148-176 (87 - 103.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 78-94 (42.1 - 50.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

Could go on all day but you get the point I think.

 

[eyreland1055]

There are great suggestions here, but they change the whole idea of the team, so I'm gonna do some testing, then probably come back with a new team that utilizes these suggestions (Probably something like rhydon, gyarados, Khangaskhan, and aegislash)