Flower Veil

[ZhengTann]

This thread will be moderated to keep discussion focused. ​

Flower Veil: This side's Grass types can't have stats lowered or status inflicted by other Pokemon.

This Pokemon takes great care of all Grass-types, emanating a mystical barrier both preventing its own and their stats from being lowered by opponents in battle, and preventing status effects from being afflicted on itself and them. This does not effect Yawn from working if a Pokemon is already Drowsy, but prevents the further application of the Drowsy status.

The struck-through part is a recent implementation that is now being contested. So let's get to it.

The premise behind this discussion is balance, where it plays more-or-less zero effect in Singles but could be devastating in Doubles and above. Also, issue arises from the Ability's interaction with Grass-types. So, two opening questions right here.

• Which part of the Ability (the stat drops part, or the status immunity part) do you think should be included, and why?
• How would this Ability work if the user itself happens to be a non-Grass-type?

This could be one of those odd cases where we have conflicts of interests between in-catridge precedence and ASB mechanics balance, so keep in mind. If possible, pull data from other sites to cross-check references, and give solid reasoning behind your stand if you're taking any. Progress of discussion may be tracked in this OP.

Fire away.

 

[Dogfish44]

Thanks for thread.

Immediately want to say it should just mimic in game w/o influencing user unless theyre grass typed. Only exception to in game should be working in singles if applicable.

Also, show of hands, who knew prior to this that it self targeted?

 

[Its_A_Random]

Keep the stat drop immunity the same as it is with regards to Flower Veil targeting the user. It was not remotely OP before and is not remotely OP now, why remove it?

No opinion on the status protection side of things atm but I want to get the above off my chest.

 

[Frosty]

Complete immunity to status is just broken. Florges may "suck", but that is not a good enough reason to just create a ridiculous ability.

I'd be in favor of just putting Ingame stuff + user has protection against stats-lowering moves.

 

[ZhengTann]

No idea that it should be self-targeted. Turns out, this is what Bulba says:

Flower Veil prevents the Pokémon with this Ability (if it is Grass-type) and its Grass-type allies from having their stats lowered. Self-inflicted stat reductions, such as from Leaf Storm or Weak Armor, are not prevented. If a Grass-type Pokémon has Contrary, Flower Veil prevents the Pokémon's stats from being lowered after accounting for Contrary.

Flower Veil also prevents the Pokémon with this Ability (if it is Grass-type) and its Grass-type allies from being afflicted by non-volatile status conditions or Yawn. However, it will not prevent a Pokémon from falling asleep if it is already drowsy from Yawn. This Ability has no effect on Rest, the Flame Orb, and the Toxic Orb.

Note the brackets. IF it is a Grass-type. This pretty much means the Florge line itself does not benefit from the ability at all. Unless in multiples format where niche tactics like Forest's Curse is used.

So if we were to go the in-catridge precedence all the way, we can completely do that. Also there's the IAR route of allowing only the Mist part, not the Safeguard part, to self-target.

 

[Gerard]

Immunity from status would be Florges only ability (and Floette-E), It's also a huge Skill Swap flag, which Florges can't prevent. This can even be more harmful from her if not careful because Florges lacks any way to get rid of an enduring foe other than Toxic.
Florges itself doesn't benefit the most from this ability because it lacks the move that would make this incredibly good (Endure).
Florges has no singles ability and we have precedent on turning completely useless abilities on their head (Honey Gather).

 

[Dogfish44]

Context of the debate means I'm pushing this one quickly. 24 Hours till Vote, unless objections are raised. Putting all issues here.

Q1: What should Flower Veil's 'Stat Drop Reduction' effect target?

a) The Pokémon with Flower Veil (Regardless of Type) and all allied Grass-Types
b) The Pokémon with Flower Veil (If it is a Grass Type) and all allied Grass-Types
c) All allied grass types, excluding the Pokémon with Flower Veil

Q2: What should Flower Veil's 'Status Prevention' effect target?

a) The Pokémon with Flower Veil (Regardless of Type) and all allied Grass-Types
b) The Pokémon with Flower Veil (If it is a Grass Type) and all allied Grass-Types
c) All allied grass types, excluding the Pokémon with Flower Veil
d) Remove this effect entirely

Q3: Should Flower Veil's effects which target itself (If any are voted for) work in singles?

a) Yes
b) No