OU Ferrothorn

Always!

Always!

The Worker
is a Tiering Contributor
RoAPL Champion
ferrothorn.gif


"Get out of my way, Thorny."

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Body Press / Iron Head
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Ferrothorn's typing and bulk allow it to check threatening attackers such as Zeraora and Excadrill as well as take advantage of passive Pokemon such as specially defensive Clefable and Toxapex to set up entry hazards. Notably, Ferrothorn is the only viable user of Spikes in the tier, though it can also set Stealth Rock if its team doesn't already have a setter. Body Press KOes Pokemon such as Bisharp while also pressuring the likes of Hydreigon and hazard removers such as Corviknight, Mandibuzz, and Excadrill. Alternatively, Iron Head is a less useful choice that severely pressures Fairy-types such as Clefable and Hatterene, preventing the former from stalling out Ferrothorn and the latter from shutting it down with Magic Bounce. Knock Off seriously limits the usefulness of some Pokemon over the course of a match, Heavy-Duty Boots users such as Mandibuzz and Rotom-H, Flame Orb users such as Conkeldurr, and Leftovers-reliant Pokemon such as Corviknight. Power Whip is another option to KO Water-types such as Seismitoad and Primarina, but Ferrothorn usually appreciates the utility Knock Off provides. Leech Seed chips away at potential switch-ins and serves as a means of recovery for Ferrothorn. Alternatively, Toxic can be used instead to quickly rack up chip damage on Pokemon such as Dracovish, while Thunder Wave is another option to neuter offensive switch-ins such as Togekiss and Cinderace. Rocky Helmet complements well with Iron Barbs and can be used instead of Leftovers to punish Pokemon such as Choice Band Dracovish with extra chip damage. The given EV spread maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk, letting it check attackers such as Zeraora, Excadrill, and Dracovish throughout the game.

Ferrothorn supports its team as a pivot and entry hazard setter, so offensive Pokemon that can take advantage of the chip damage wearing down their counters make for good partners; Kyurem, Terrakion, and Excadrill all appreciate having their checks take hazard damage to put them in OHKO or 2HKO range. Common Stealth Rock setters such as Hippowdon and Seismitoad also pair well with Ferrothorn, as they can cover its Fire weakness and check Pokemon such as Cinderace and Rotom-H; they also free up Ferrothorn's entry hazard moveslot for Spikes. In return, Ferrothorn can take advantage of Pokemon that threaten them such as Clefable and Rotom-W. Rotom-H resists Fire-type moves and can gain momentum with Volt Switch, which takes advantage of the entry hazards Ferrothorn can set down. Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr can KO Ferrothorn easily, so Pokemon that can tank their attacks such as Hippowdon pair nicely with Ferrothorn. Wish passers such as Clefable and Sylveon are also good partners to prevent Ferrothorn from being worn down throughout the game.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Always!, 200898]]
- Quality checked by: [[Jordy, 395754], [rabia, 336073], [curiosity, 443485]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [Estronic, 240732]]
 

Attachments

  • 1578522660106.png
    1578522660106.png
    7.4 KB · Views: 340
Last edited:
[OVERVIEW]
  • Excellent pivot and hazard setter due to its great typing, natural bulk, and access to a plethora of support options.
  • Acts as a good "glue" Pokemon for many teams that require entry hazard support and its typing to cover certain threats, and can be fairly flexible in the spread it runs to check a different set of Pokemon.
    • Few things: what threats are we talking about here? Specifically mention that because being ambiguous doesn't help anybody. Also try avoid using "monsspeak"
  • Spikes support helps both offensive teams that need the prior damage to guarantee KOs or wear down a defensive wall, and defensive teams that wear down opposing teams over a long time by stacking hazards and racking up passive damage. Why is this in the introduction?
  • Between Leech Seed and Iron Barbs, Ferrothorn can cause a lot of passive damage itself, and can get free turns on key Pokemon such as Seismitoad and Defensive Clefable to annoy with Knock Off or Leech Seed, or set hazards. Add mentions of Corvi here to since pretty big ferrothorn bait.
  • The tier's loss of Hidden Power Fire has been offset for Ferrothorn by the prevalence of Mystical Fire for Fairy-types, meaning it struggles to reliably check Fairy-types such as Sylveon and Hatterene who almost always have it. I mean I don't really understand why this is necessary to point out. The point here should really be something along the lines of the abundance of Fire coverage in general; remove sylv from this list since it doesn't really run mystical fire anymore and add mentions of like hydra / dragapult / lo clef
  • The prevalence of Nasty Plot and Swords Dance makes Ferrothorn setup-bait for Pokemon such as Rotom-H, Hydreigon, and Excadrill, so it needs to be careful not to give these Pokemon free turns if its team cannot handle them, or carry a status move to cripple them. Not that I disagree with this but ferro kinda does really fuck with non flamethrower and driller since it knocks both which kinda incapacitates both offensively if you pair this with something like clef / sylv + kommo-o which isn't too great

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Power Whip
move 4: Knock Off / Iron Head
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========
  • Setting Spikes is very important to wear down opposing teams, and Ferrothorn has many opportunities to set them during up during a match. Move the point about spikes in the intro down here
  • However, if the team does not already have a Stealth Rock user, Ferrothorn can set it instead.
  • Leech Seed functions as both a source of passive damage for opposing Pokemon and as a source of recovery for Ferrothorn. Together with Leftovers, this keeps Ferrothorn healthy throughout the match.
  • Power Whip is a strong STAB move that can OHKO or do severe damage to Water-types like Seismitoad, Gastrodon, and Rotom-W.
  • Knock Off cripples many common switch-ins to Ferrothorn by removing their item, such as Aegislash, Corviknight, Mandibuzz, Cinderace, and Rotom-H; this makes the latter 3 very susceptible to being worn down by Stealth Rock by removing their Heavy-Duty Boots. Maybe limit this to Corvi / Mandi / Rotom since both Aegi and ace can't really afford to get leeched in general. Kinda iff on the Mandi mentions too tbh but ig it works here
  • Iron Head is another option for a STAB move that hits Fairy-types such as Clefable, Hatterene, and Grimmsnarl super-effectively; in particular, Clefable has a difficult time stalling it out, and it 2HKOs Hatterene, preventing it from shutting down Ferrothorn with Magic Bounce. Sylveon > Grimmsnarl here; Grimm will take nothing from this regardless since it'll just reflect up and Sylv is a lot more relevant atm
  • Gyro Ball is another option for a STAB move that does a lot of damage to faster offensive Pokemon such as Gengar and Dragapult, and does a bit more damage to Fairy-type switch-ins, though it has less PP and does less than Iron Head to Hatterene. Specifically mention why the lower PP is bad for ferro (ie it's stalled out by clef / sylv)
  • Protect is an option that lets Ferrothorn scout opposing Pokemon's moves and takes advantage of Choice-locked Pokemon such as....?, and works extremely well in tandem with Leech Seed and Leftovers, allowing Ferrothorn to regain a sizeable amount of its HP back.
  • Thunder Wave is another option that allows Ferrothorn to paralyze switchins such as Cinderace, Hydreigon, and Corviknight, reorder this to Corvi > Hydreigon > Kommo-o making them much easier for teammates to check and take advantage of; it also pairs nicely with Iron Head against slower Pokemon like Clefable and Sylveon. Personally, I kinda think that this should be an OO option but this should probably mention that it will 100% always let heater and in for free, which is absolutely shit since both can just set up on you and eventually break past you
  • Full investment in HP and Special Defense, as well as a Careful nature, allow Ferrothorn to come in multiple times during a game to check common Special attackers such as Toxtricity, Gengar, Choice-Specs Dragapult locked into Shadow Ball, and non-Flamethrower Hydreigon. If Gyro Ball is used, a Sassy nature and a Speed IV of 0 should be used to maximize its power. Again, reorder this by viability; Dragapult > Gengar > Rotom-M. Rotom is a lot more prevalent then tris is atm so it's obv a lot more important.
  • Alternatively, a spread that maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk is just as viable, improving its matchup against physical attackers such as Dracovish, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Excadrill, and Mimikyu. List downsides; remove mentions of Gyara and Mimikyu

Usage Tips
========
  • Try to scout opposing Pokemon for Fire-type coverage, and be wary of switching Ferrothorn into Pokemon that might have them unless they're choice-locked and you're confident that they won't use them.
  • Use Knock Off liberally, as none of Ferrothorn's common switch-ins enjoy losing an item, and often times are dependent on them, such as Heavy-Duty Boots users.
  • Set Spikes whenever Ferrothorn has a free turn and can force the opposing Pokemon out.
  • Use Leech Seed whenever Ferrothorn's health is getting low, or if you need it to keep it healthy to check a threat the opponent has waiting in the back. It should also be used when forcing an opponent out to do chip damage and simultaneously recover HP, if that's the best option.
  • When switching into Pokemon that can use Scald, it's important to keep in mind if Ferrothorn can risk a burn and still check opposing Pokemon on the opponent's team, or if a burn will turn it into setup bait for a Pokemon it could normally beat. If a burn won't bother Ferrothorn too much, don't be afraid to switch it in on Pokemon like Seismitoad and Toxapex in order to get up hazards for your team.
  • Ferrothorn will often invite opposing Pokemon in that will completely force it out and gain momentum for the opponent, so it's okay to double switch to prevent this if Ferrothorn doesn't need to set up hazards, Leech Seed, or attack.

Team Options
========
  • Seismitoad is a natural partner, being able to cover Ferrothorn's Fire weakness and counter Pokemon such as Rotom-H and Cinderace, set Stealth Rock, and weaken the opposing team with status from Scald and Toxic. Seismitoad also takes the pressure off of Ferrothorn to deal with Dracovish and Dracozolt, who can normally just muscle past Ferrothorn with their signature moves. Probably mention Kommo-o here since it's a lot more prevalent atm and basically does everything that Seismi does sans the vish matchup
  • Rotom-H is another good partner, being able to switch into Fire-type moves and check offensive Clefable, which can come in for free due to Magic Guard, and can threaten bulkier Defog-users like Corviknight and Mandibuzz and use Volt Switch to gain momentum. Ferrothorn can cover Rotom-H's Water and Rock weaknesses in return.
  • In general, Corviknight and Mandibuzz are very annoying for Ferrothorn because they take little to no damage from entry hazards and can easily Defog them, and they can stay healthy throughout the game due to reliable recovery in Roost. Therefore, anything that can pressure them such as Offensive Clefable, Toxtricity, or Modest Choice-Specs Dragapult can make Ferrothorn's hazard-stacking efforts more meaningful. But you kinda beat these two anyways??? Mandibuzz especially since if you ever get the chance to knock it, it's basically game over for it and forcing both to roost is really really big in the long run, so I definitely disagree with this.
  • Defensive Fairy-types such as Clefable and Sylveon appreciate Ferrothorn being able to check Pokemon such as Toxtricity or Choice-locked Aegislash, and they can provide Wish support to maintain Ferrothorn's health and check Fighting-type Pokemon such as Conkeldurr. Ok but since when does clef or sylveon check conk? Replace the tric mention with like ig specs gengar? Idk i think these mons kinda overlap each other in the things they check so im not particularly keen on this point
  • Offensive Pokemon that appreciate the hazard support from Spikes and Stealth Rock such as Life Orb Hydreigon, Aegislash, and Dracovish make good partners on bulky and balanced offense teams. Hydreigon can setup on and threaten Pokemon that give Ferrothorn trouble such as Rotom-H, Corviknight, and Mandibuzz, and Dracovish appreciates Ferrothorn's ability to switch into Water-types such as Seismitoad, Gastrodon, and Toxapex and lay hazards to further wear them down.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Ferrothorn is one of the few Pokemon in the tier to have access to Toxic, allowing it to put many common switch-ins on a timer and greatly limiting their effectiveness. Mention what you're hitting and why it's generally considered an OO move; specifically mention hitting Mandibuzz, Rotom-A, Kommo-o and Hydra for extra chip but mention how it's already pressed for slots to begin with and how you're already really pressuring the aforementioned with leech and knock + hazards.
  • Body Press allows Ferrothorn to reliably check Dark- and Steel-types that might try to set up on Ferrothorn, such as Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Excadrill, OHKOing the former and cleanly 2HKOing the latter two. A physically defensive spread does even more damage and has a good chance to OHKO Tyranitar as well.
  • Curse allows Ferrothorn to boost its Attack and Defense, making it tougher to take down from the physical side, but most Pokemon that try to deal with Ferrothorn usually can either boost past it or target its Special Defense and hit it with super-effective Fire-type coverage.
  • Rocky Helmet can be used to stack up residual damage alongside Iron Barbs, but Ferrothorn's lack of reliable recovery means that it desperately needs Leftovers to consistently pivot in and out of play during the match.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fire-types and Fire-type coverage**: Fire-type Pokemon such as Cinderace, Rotom-H, and Centiskorch can easily OHKO Ferrothorn with their Fire-type STAB moves. In addition, many Pokemon also carry Fire-type moves for coverage such as Flamethrower or Mystical Fire, so Pokemon such as Hydreigon, Hatterene, and offensive Clefable can make short work of Ferrothorn, though they have to be careful switching in.

**Taunt**: Taunt users such as Mew, Corviknight, Mandibuzz, and Grimmsnarl can shut down Ferrothorn and prevent it from laying hazards or using Leech Seed; however, all of them must watch out for Knock Off. Add mentions of Kommo-o here.

**Setup Sweepers**: Nasty Plot users such as Rotom-H, Rotom-C, Gengar, and Hydreigon, can all take advantage of Ferrothorn and KO it if it stays in, though they all need to avoid switching into Knock Off. Swords Dance users such as Bisharp and Excadrill can similarly defeat it if it doesn't have Body Press and is sufficiently weakened. Not keen on the Gengar mention here since you really can't afford to set up on it.

**Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers that can hit Ferrothorn super-effectively such as Conkeldurr and Aegislash can also force it out, lest it stay in and get KOed or heavily weakened.


Do this please!!

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[, ]]
- Quality checked by: [[curiosity,443485 ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

small jotaro.gif


QC 1/3
 
Implemented QC check, thank you curiosity.

Can I move Body Press to a moves mention, or maybe even slash it with Power Whip? I feel it adds a lot more utility in some matchups by preventing setup for a lot of SD and NP users like Bish, Exca, Hydrei, and SubNP Rotom-M. It doesn't OHKO most of them with no investment, but since Ferrothorn can usually take at least 1, it can at minimum trade if need be.
 
[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Body Press / Iron Head
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Please make this the set. Phyisically defensive Ferrothorn is a lot more relevant in this metagame.

Once you've implemented this, hit me up and I'll make sure to check this as soon as possible.
 
comments in purple things to remove in red
Always! said:
ferrothorn.gif


"Get out of my way, Thorny."

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Body Press / Iron Head
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Ferrothorn's typing and bulk allows it to check threatening attackers such as Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Excadrill, while also being able to take advantage of passive Pokemon to set up hazards, such as Specially Defensive Clefable and Sylveon. Ferrothorn's a mediocre check to Tyranitar, it's fine to leave it at this. I definitely want you to highlight the fact that Ferrothorn's the only viable Spikes user, as that is very important. Ferrothorn can set up Spikes to wear down the opponent's team, but can set up Stealth Rock if its team doesn't already have a setter. Body Press works off of Ferrothorn's massive physical defense and threatens to KO Pokemon such as Bisharp, Hydreigon, and Excadrill, while also threatening Defog users such as Corviknight and Mandibuzz. Alternatively, Iron Head can be used to severely pressure Fairy-types such as Sylveon and Hatterene, preventing Ferrothorn from being stalled out by the former, and from being shut down by Magic Bounce by the latter. Clefable absolutely needs to be mentioned here. I'd also like to see a mention of Power Whip here, as it is certainly a viable option to immediately pressure Pokemon like Seismitoad and Gastrodon. Knock Off is a very useful move to cripple potential switch-ins by making them lose their item, which can seriously limit the usefulness of some Pokemon over the match, such as Heavy-Duty Boots users such as Mandibuzz and Incineroar Rotom-H. Incineroar's a poor Ferrothorn switch-in and barely relevant anyways; Rotom-H is a better example. Conkeldurr may also be worth mentioning here, as it's hugely crippled if it loses its Flame Orb before getting burned. Thunder Wave neuters offensive switch-ins by cutting their speed in half, making it difficult to safely come in on Ferrothorn. Be more specific; I want to know what specific Pokemon Thunder Wave neuters. Leech Seed can also be used instead to chip away at potential switch-ins and serve as a means of recovery for Ferrothorn, keeping it healthy throughout the match. I think it's really important to note that there's little need for Leech Seed alongside a Wish user. The given EV spread maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk, letting it check attackers such as Gyarados, Excadrill, and Dracovish throughout the game.

Ferrothorn supports its team as a pivot and a hazard setter, so offensive Pokemon that can take advantage of hazards wearing down their counters make for good partners; Choice Specs Dragapult Kyurem, Terrakion, and Zeraora all appreciate having their checks take hazard damage to put them in OHKO/2HKO range. Dragapult in general doesn't benefit that much from Spikes; it's two most common checks in Clefable and Mandibuzz don't mind. A different Pokemon like Kyurem, which forces an excessive amount of switches and mindgames, is definitely a better example of a Pokemon that can take advantage of Spikes. Common Stealth Rock setters such as Kommo-o and Seismitoad also pair well with Ferrothorn as they can cover each other's weaknesses and stack more entry hazards to further wear down the opponent's team. Specifically mention that they free up Spikes on Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn is glaringly weak to Fire-type moves, so Pokemon such as Rotom-H and the aforementioned Kommo-o and Seismitoad can check Pokemon that could easily KO Ferrothorn such as Cinderace and Incineroar Rotom-H. Rotom-H is a mediocre check to opposing Fire-types. It's also much more prevalent than Incineroar, so it's a better example. Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr can KO Ferrothorn easily, so Pokemon that can tank these attacks such as Hippowdon and Clefable pair nicely with Ferrothorn. I definitely want you to mention Wish users here too.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Always!, 200898]]
- Quality checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
Click to expand...
I'd like to take another look after this is implemented.
 
Always! said:
ferrothorn.gif


"Get out of my way, Thorny."

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Body Press / Iron Head
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Ferrothorn's typing and bulk allows it to check threatening attackers such as Bisharp and Excadrill, while also being able to take advantage of passive Pokemon to set up hazards, such as Specially Defensive Clefable don't love this mention because Flamethrower isn't exactly uncommon on Clefable, maybe specially defensive Jirachi would be better here and Sylveon. Ferrothorn is the only viable user of Spikes in the tier, and can set them up to wear down the opponent's team, but it can set up Stealth Rock if its team doesn't already have a setter. Body Press works off of Ferrothorn's massive physical defense and threatens to KO Pokemon such as Bisharp, Hydreigon, and Excadrill, while also threatening Defog users such as Corviknight and Mandibuzz. Alternatively, Iron Head can be used to severely pressure Fairy-types such as Clefable and Hatterene, preventing Ferrothorn from being stalled out by the former, and from being shut down by Magic Bounce by the latter. Power Whip is another option to KO Water-types such as Seismitoad and Gastrodon. Knock Off is a very useful move to cripple potential switch-ins by making them lose their item, which can seriously limit the usefulness of some Pokemon over the match, such as Heavy-Duty Boots users such as Mandibuzz and Rotom-H, or Flame Orb users such as Conkeldurr I'd add Corviknight here because getting rid of its Lefties is cool. Thunder Wave neuters offensive switch-ins such as Dragapult and Cinderace by cutting their speed in half, making it difficult to safely come in on Ferrothorn. Leech Seed can also be used instead to chip away at potential switch-ins and serve as a means of recovery for Ferrothorn, but is generally unnecessary if Ferrothorn has Wish support from its teammates. The given EV spread maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk, letting it check attackers such as Gyarados, Excadrill, and Dracovish throughout the game.

Ferrothorn supports its team as a pivot and a hazard setter, so offensive Pokemon that can take advantage of hazards wearing down their counters make for good partners; Kyurem, Terrakion, and Zeraora all appreciate having their checks take hazard damage to put them in OHKO/2HKO range. Kyurem and (non Choice-Scarf) Terrakion also like Thunder Wave slowing down some of the faster revenge killers like Dragapult Common Stealth Rock setters such as Kommo-o and Seismitoad also pair well with Ferrothorn as they can cover each other's weaknesses and free up Ferrothorn's entry hazard move-slot for Spikes. Ferrothorn is glaringly weak to Fire-type moves, so Pokemon such as the aforementioned Kommo-o and Seismitoad can check Pokemon that could easily KO Ferrothorn such as Cinderace and Rotom-H.I feel this sentence should just be combined with the previous one because you mention the defensive synergy there. you could just expand on it by saying Kommo-o and Seismitoad help with Fire-types and then talk about what Ferrothorn does for them in return Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr can KO Ferrothorn easily, so Pokemon that can tank these attacks such as Hippowdon and Clefable pair nicely with Ferrothorn. Pokemon that can pass Wishes such as Clefable and Sylveon are good partners to prevent Ferrothorn from being worn down throughout the game.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Always!, 200898]]
- Quality checked by: [[Jordy, 395754], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
Click to expand...
qc 2/2 once done bop
 
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/1
[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Body Press / Iron Head
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Ferrothorn's typing and bulk allows allow it to check threatening attackers such as Bisharp and Excadrill, while also being able to as well as take advantage of passive Pokemon to set up entry hazards, such as specially defensive Jirachi and Sylveon. Notably, Ferrothorn is the only viable user of Spikes in the tier, and can set them up to wear down the opponent's team, but though it can also set up Stealth Rock if its team doesn't already have a setter. Body Press works off of Ferrothorn's massive physical defense and threatens to KOes (fluff + repetition) Pokemon such as Bisharp, Hydreigon, and Excadrill (RC) while also threatening Defog users such as Corviknight and Mandibuzz. Alternatively, Iron Head can be used to severely pressure Fairy-types such as Clefable and Hatterene, preventing Ferrothorn the former from being stalled stalling out by the former Ferrothorn (RC) and from being the latter from shutting it down by with Magic Bounce by the latter. Power Whip is another option to KO Water-types such as Seismitoad and Gastrodon, (comma) while Knock Off is a very useful move to cripple potential switch-ins by making them lose their item, which can seriously limit the usefulness of some Pokemon over the match, such as Heavy-Duty Boots users such as Mandibuzz and Rotom-H, Flame Orb users such as Conkeldurr, or Corviknight's Leftovers. Thunder Wave neuters offensive switch-ins such as Dragapult and Cinderace by cutting their speed in half, making it difficult to safely come in on Ferrothorn. Leech Seed can also be used instead to chip away at potential switch-ins and serve as a means of recovery for Ferrothorn, but it is generally unnecessary if Ferrothorn has Wish support from its teammates. The given EV spread maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk, letting it check attackers such as Gyarados, Excadrill, and Dracovish throughout the game.

Ferrothorn supports its team as a pivot and an entry hazard setter, so offensive Pokemon that can take advantage of hazards the chip damage wearing down their counters make for good partners; Kyurem, Terrakion, and Zeraora all appreciate having their checks take hazard damage to put them in OHKO or 2HKO range. In addition, Kyurem and non-Choice Scarf Terrakion also enjoy Thunder Wave slowing down fast revenge killers (RH) such as Dragapult. Common Stealth Rock setters such as Kommo-o and Seismitoad also pair well with Ferrothorn, (AC) as they can cover Ferrothorn's its Fire weakness and check Pokemon such as Cinderace and Rotom-H; they also free up Ferrothorn's entry hazard move-slot moveslot for Spikes. In return, Ferrothorn can take advantage of Pokemon that threaten them such as Sylveon or Rotom-M Rotom-C. Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr can KO Ferrothorn easily, so Pokemon that can tank these their attacks such as Hippowdon and Clefable pair nicely with Ferrothorn. Pokemon that can pass Wish passers such as Clefable and Sylveon are also good partners to prevent Ferrothorn from being worn down throughout the game.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Always!, 200898]]
- Quality checked by: [[Jordy, 395754], [rabia, 336073]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
 
Hi hi, I understand that this has already been QC checked twice and has also been approved by GP, but there's definitely quite a lot of content with this analysis that I disagree with and definitely wanted to correct before this was uploaded. I'd like to apologise in advance for invalidating everyone's effort, particularly TDP but again, there's just a lot of stuff that I felt like needed correction.

Always! said:
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Body Press / Iron Head
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Click to expand...

I've brought this up with QC but I really don't like how there's no mention of Toxic anywhere here; I personally think that it's a lot more consistent in a meta where Zeraora is so prominent. I'm of the opinion that pressuring that is a lot more important than getting speed drops atm (not to mention that toxic pressures all twave targets a lot more consistently). This should realistically be slashed first but we've yet to come to a proper consensus so I'll have to get back to you on that.

Ferrothorn's typing and bulk allows it to check threatening attackers such as Bisharp and Excadrill, while also being able to take advantage of passive Pokemon to set up hazards, such as Specially Defensive Jirachi and Sylveon.
Click to expand...

Let's be real for a moment, the former doesn't exist and the latter isn't a relevant mention at all considering how niche it's recently become; clef is definitely a solid mention here considering that flamethrower is a pretty uncommon move for non-cm variants to run considering it really doesn't offer enough utility for the general build. CM Clef has also generally fallen out of favour as people are looking for kyurem checks more than anything so it's pretty safe to mention here. If you're also going to mention other relatively passive mons, I'd rather you mention stuff like the plethora of bulky waters / hippowdon which can all pretty much do nothing to you. I guess it's possibly worth mentioning Corvi / Mandi since you do come in on them pretty easily but ig they just u-turn out on them. idc what you decide to choose but i really don't like the current examples.

Thunder Wave neuters offensive switch-ins such as Dragapult
Click to expand...

I mean I find it really questionable that you're calling Dragapult an offensive Ferrothorn check considering that not only does it have to risk being struck by Knock Off, but it also can't really do anything in return, especially considering that specs has dropped off the face of the earth. If you're going to mention something that actually does try to actively abuse Ferro, you'd want to mention something like e: specifically cm Clefable or Togekiss, although both hate knock, neither particularly need their item like pult to function as breakers.

but it is generally unnecessary if Ferrothorn has Wish support from its teammate.
Click to expand...

i mean calling it generally unnecessary is definitely an overreaction; like even if it has that teleport clef support, just generally not having to solely rely on wish is huge because it opens up ferrothorn a lot more, particularly in matchups where letting clef in is a lot harder.

Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr can KO Ferrothorn easily, so Pokemon that can tank these attacks such as Hippowdon and Clefable pair nicely with Ferrothorn.
Click to expand...

I mean if you're running ferro w/ clef, the clef should be spdef, which realistically is not checking conk or terrak at all; just leave it at that really since that's honestly the only real fighting check you're running alongside it.

There's also absolutely zero mention of big partners such as Rotom-H and Excadrill as partners which is pretty baffling considering that sand is quite big atm.

I'm going to have to ask you to tag me once you've implemented all this since QC just needs to finalise a few things. Once again, I'm sorry for doing this at this stage and hope you lot stay safe. :blobthumbsup:
 
Last edited:
[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Body Press / Iron Head
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Toxic / Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Make leech the first slash, definitely a lot more consistent in this meta. Honestly at this point you could probably just keep toxic + twave as mentions at this point, given that bu zeraora has fallen off lately. I also like to see a mention of helmet in the comments given how cb vish has popped up again.

[SET COMMENTS]
Ferrothorn's typing and bulk allow it to check threatening attackers such as Bisharp and Excadrill I'd rather you mention something like zeraora over bisharp given how much more reliably it checks zeraora as well as take advantage of passive Pokemon to set up entry hazards, such as specially defensive Clefable and Gastrodon I'd rather you mention something more relevant such as pex or toad given how niche it is (see ~2% usage in stour, literally no uses post home in SPL, and 3 uses throughout 2 weeks of CPL). Notably, Ferrothorn is the only viable user of Spikes in the tier, though it can also set up Stealth Rock if its team doesn't already have a setter. Body Press KOes I'd rather you separate this into 2 sections; ohkoing bish and pressuring hydra + removers. Pokemon such as Bisharp, Hydreigon, and Excadrill while also threatening Defog users such as Corviknight and Mandibuzz. Alternatively, Iron Head can be used to severely pressure Fairy-types such as Clefable and Hatterene, preventing the former from stalling out Ferrothorn and the latter from shutting it down with Magic Bounce. Power Whip is another option to KO Water-types such as Seismitoad and Gastrodon replace this gastro mention w/ primarina, which is pretty much the only reason why you're running whip to begin with, while Knock Off can seriously limit the usefulness of some Pokemon over the match, such as Heavy-Duty Boots users such as Mandibuzz and Rotom-H, Flame Orb users such as Conkeldurr, or Corviknight's Leftovers. Idk how i feel about this paragraph since it kinda sounds like these moves are all interchangeable; press and knock are definitely better than its stab options so i feel like this should try to reflect this. Toxic can further put these Pokemon on a timer and quickly rack up chip damage on them. Leech Seed can also be used instead to chip away at potential switch-ins and serve as a means of recovery for Ferrothorn. Thunder Wave is another option to neuter offensive switch-ins such as Togekiss and Cinderace, making it difficult to safely come in on Ferrothorn. The given EV spread maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk, letting it check attackers such as Gyarados, Excadrill, and Dracovish throughout the game. replace the gyarados mention w/ zeraora, given that's a lot more prevalent atm,

Ferrothorn supports its team as a pivot and an entry hazard setter, so offensive Pokemon that can take advantage of the chip damage wearing down their counters make for good partners; Kyurem, Terrakion, and Excadrill all appreciate having their checks take hazard damage to put them in OHKO or 2HKO range. Common Stealth Rock setters such as Kommo-o and Seismitoad replace the kommo-o mention with hippo also pair well with Ferrothorn, as they can cover its Fire weakness and check Pokemon such as Cinderace and Rotom-H; they also free up Ferrothorn's entry hazard moveslot for Spikes. In return, Ferrothorn can take advantage of Pokemon that threaten them such as Sylveon or Rotom-C replace these mentions with clefable and washer respectively Rotom-H resists Fire-type moves and can gain momentum with Volt-Switch, which takes advantage of the entry hazards Ferrothorn can set down. Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr can KO Ferrothorn easily, so Pokemon that can tank their attacks such as Hippowdon pair nicely with Ferrothorn. Wish passers such as Clefable and Sylveon are also good partners to prevent Ferrothorn from being worn down throughout the game.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Always!, 200898]]
- Quality checked by: [[Jordy, 395754], [rabia, 336073]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216]]

large jotaro.gif


check check
 
All changes implemented; thank you curiosity. I'll put this in the GP queue one last time and implement the final check, and then have this done.
 
add remove (comments)
[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Body Press / Iron Head
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Ferrothorn's typing and bulk allow it to check threatening attackers such as Zeraora and Excadrill as well as take advantage of passive Pokemon such as specially defensive Clefable and Toxapex to set up entry hazards, such as specially defensive Clefable and Toxapex. Notably, Ferrothorn is the only viable user of Spikes in the tier, though it can also set up Stealth Rock if its team doesn't already have a setter. Body Press KOes Pokemon such as Bisharp, (RC) while also pressuring the likes of Hydreigon and hazard removers such as Corviknight, Mandibuzz, and Excadrill. Alternatively, Iron Head is a less useful choice that severely pressures Fairy-types such as Clefable and Hatterene, preventing the former from stalling out Ferrothorn and the latter from shutting it down with Magic Bounce. Knock Off seriously limits the usefulness of some Pokemon over the course of a match, such as (optional, less repetitive and helps with flow) Heavy-Duty Boots users such as Mandibuzz and Rotom-H, Flame Orb users such as Conkeldurr, and Leftovers-reliant Pokemon such as Corviknight. Power Whip is another option to KO Water-types such as Seismitoad and Primarina, but Ferrothorn usually appreciates the utility Knock Off provides. Leech Seed chips away at potential switch-ins and serves as a means of recovery for Ferrothorn. Alternatively, Toxic can be used instead to quickly rack up chip damage on Pokemon such as Dracovish, while Thunder Wave is another option to neuter offensive switch-ins such as Togekiss and Cinderace. Rocky Helmet compounds complements well with Iron Barbs, (RC) and can be used instead of Leftovers to punish Pokemon such as Choice Band Dracovish with extra chip damage. The given EV spread maximizes Ferrothorn's physical bulk, letting it check attackers such as Zeraora, Excadrill, and Dracovish throughout the game.

Ferrothorn supports its team as a pivot and an entry hazard setter, so offensive Pokemon that can take advantage of the chip damage wearing down their counters make for good partners; Kyurem, Terrakion, and Excadrill all appreciate having their checks take hazard damage to put them in OHKO or 2HKO range. Common Stealth Rock setters such as Hippowdon and Seismitoad also pair well with Ferrothorn, as they can cover its Fire weakness and check Pokemon such as Cinderace and Rotom-H; they also free up Ferrothorn's entry hazard moveslot for Spikes. In return, Ferrothorn can take advantage of Pokemon that threaten them such as Clefable or and Rotom-W. Rotom-H resists Fire-type moves and can gain momentum with Volt-Switch (RH), which takes advantage of the entry hazards Ferrothorn can set down. Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr can KO Ferrothorn easily, so Pokemon that can tank their attacks such as Hippowdon pair nicely with Ferrothorn. Wish passers such as Clefable and Sylveon are also good partners to prevent Ferrothorn from being worn down throughout the game.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Always!, 200898]]
- Quality checked by: [[Jordy, 395754], [Rabia, 336073], [curiosity, 443485]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216]] (you can just put me next to tdp since a good amount of what he checked is still here after the changes)
1/1 :blobthumbsup:
Estronic-GP-small.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top