Ferrothorn (Curse - QC 0/3)

[shrang]

So yeah, I think this deserves more than just an OO mention.

*Takes a Palkia Fire Blast in the rain*
Doc: He lives.
Ferrotroll: Of course I do, I'm immortal!

http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/ferrothorn

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Power Whip
move 4: Gyro Ball
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Ferrothorn is such a troll
- Unlike the standard set, this set is threatening in the way that if you can't kill it, you're fucked.
- After a Curse, it is ridiculously hard to OHKO in the rain without resorting to ridiculously powerful Fire attacks like Specs Blue Flare from Reshiram or something similar. It can survive a Close Combat from CB Terrakion at full health at +1, just to show how sturdy this thing is.
- With Toxic Spikes support, Ferrothorn doesn't even need to attack a lot of the time, it just sits there, Leech Seeds you and watches you die. Curse remedies the physical side, where it is usually weaker in Ubers.
- HUGE trouble for Stall teams and balanced teams that don't pack enough firepower.
- Handily beats ExtremeKiller without Brick Break one on one. Basically, switch it in as it SDs, Leech Seed it, then start using Curse. It can't kill you in time with Earthquake as you just drain away his health and KO it with Gyro Ball.
- Beats pretty much all the Water-type sweepers unless they carry Fire Blast. For example, you'd used to lose to Manaphy if it burned you with Scald. Not any more. Now you'd just take the burn, Leech Seed the stupid Manaphy and Curse along as it Calm Minds and then kill it with Power Whip.
- Curse and Leech Seed makes sure that Ferrothorn is harder to remove than mould, Power Whip and Gyro Ball for STABs.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- The Defense EVs guarantee the survival of CB Terrakion's Close Combat when you're at full health after a Curse. The rest go into SpD.
- Loves Toxic Spikes to fuck around with things and just not dying before the opponent does.
- Counters: Still many counters, this is more of a win condition than anything. Ho-oh still does way more than Ferrothorn likes even after a Curse or two, resists both STABs handily and can use Sub to block Leech Seed and waste Gyro Ball PP, while Sacred Fire can burn you. Giratina-A can just Will-O-Wisp you and proceed to PP stall you. Fighting Arceus does a truckload of damage with Judgement, as does Fire Arceus. Reshiram and Heatran kills you really easily too. Dialga can kill you with Fire Blast way faster than you can stall. Skarm can wall you and Taunt you, although without Taunt, he's losing if Ferro is the last mon. Lugia can Dragon Tail away, but loses if Ferro is last mon as well.
- Teammates: What do all of the above hate? Kyogre, of course! Rain also downgrades Ferrotroll's Fire weakness, letting you take a Fire Blast from shit like Palkia and boot it with a boosted Power Whip or just Leech Seed it. Tentacruel gets you Toxic Spikes, Giratina forms and Ghost Arceus block spin. Standard Drown All-esque rain stall Pokemon.

 

[Go10]

Mention Skarmory in the counter, he's an easy answer as he can Taunt you, resist all of your STAB and setup Spikes while you switch. Usually, Gira-A's going to Dragon Tail you after the burn too. Rayquaza can switch on everything bar Gyro Ball and doesnt care about your Curse since he'll just fire off Fire Blast even under Rain.

 

[Koinzell]

- The Defense EVs guarantee the survival of CB Terrakion's Close Combat when you're at full health after a Curse. The rest go into SpD.

Running a regular 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Sassy set seems better. If you predict a Terrakion switch, kill it with Gyro Ball, if you don't want to predict, just spam Leech Seed. CB Terrakion still gets a OHKO with Sacred Sword anyway.

I honestly don't think Curse deserves more than OO, it's not a bad set by any means and we all know how annoying Leech Seed Ferrothorn is in the Rain, but Curse has very limited uses for Ferrothorn and is overall not worth the loss of Spikes.

Ferrothorn doesn't exactly attract physical attackers, except Ho-Oh, Fire Punch Groudon and Rayquaza with Overheat, who beats you regardless of Curse.

Think about it, what kind of threats switch into Ferrothorn ? We have :

1) Special attackers that can 2HKO Ferro in the Rain through Leech Seed (Dialga, Mewtwo, Reshiram, ...)
2) Spikers that attempt to Spikes-stack alongside you or have Rapid Spin/Taunt to shut you down (Ferrothorn, Forrestress, Skarm)

Curse doesn't help with 1) and makes you a liability against 2)

Handily beats ExtremeKiller without Brick Break one on one. Basically, switch it in as it SDs, Leech Seed it, then start using Curse. It can't kill you in time with Earthquake as you just drain away his health and KO it with Gyro Ball.

What kind of Arceus exactly ? Let's not even mention Brick Break or Overheat, Arceus can overwhelm you with Earthquake if he gets to +4 while you Leech Seed.

With Curse, Ferrothorn can beat Arceus one-on-one but it is not worth the loss of Spikes.

HUGE trouble for Stall teams and balanced teams that don't pack enough firepower.

I really don't see how Stall will have a problem with something that is so Spikes fodder, just setup a little on it, then go to your phazer / Will O Wisp user, most of them can take on +3/4 Ferrothorn just fine.

Curse allows Ferrothorn to beat SubClaw Zekrom, which is cool, but not so much compared to the usefulness of Spikes. This is why you should use both Spikes and Curse. Consider slashing in Spikes on a coverage move since Ferrothorn has pretty sucky coverage with Grass + Steel anyway.

 

[trickroom]

I didn't get good results with Curse Ferrothorn. Most of the time it didn't even get to use Curse. When I did Cursed, the opponent switched to their Dialga/Mewtwo and 2HKO. Spikes is just too useful to drop on Ferrothorn.

Groudon can take a +1 Power Whip and 2HKO with Fire-type attacks.

Will test more later.

 

[hamiltonion]

OK, so I tried Curse Ferrothorn and its a good set I have to admit. However, in most of the cases I really missed the Standard Ferrothorn's Spiking Power. Also when I started Cursing, it was quickly followed by a prompt switch to Dialga, who totally shits all over this Ferrothorn, and Roars you. The best you can do is Leech Seed, which normal Ferrothorn could have done as well. Secondly, Ferrothorn has absurdly low PP of attacking moves which means anything can Pressure Stall you (8 pp for Power Whip, 4 for Gyro, so 12 hits, less if you factor misses). I tried Spikes over Gyro Ball once but then stuff like Grass Arceus still wall you. Also, Ferrothorn really hates burn and Lugia can just Sub and Whirlwind while Giratina can burn you. Palkia and Dialga still dont give a fuck about Ferrothorn if they have Fire Blast. Also most ExtremeKiller variants run Brick Break anyway.

HUGE trouble for Stall teams and balanced teams that don't pack enough firepower.

Really ? Apart from endgame Ferrothorn, you're incredibily prone to burn, phaze and Taunt. Also this part is especially important:

-1) Special attackers that can 2HKO Ferro in the Rain through Leech Seed (Dialga, Mewtwo, Reshiram, ...)
2) Spikers that attempt to Spikes-stack alongside you or have Rapid Spin/Taunt to shut you down (Ferrothorn, Forrestress, Skarm)

-Curse doesn't help with 1) and makes you a liability against 2)

Personally, I'd rather we give an AC mention but not a set on its own.

 

[trickroom]

QC REJECTED 1/3

I don't see why Ferrothorn should use Curse. Spikes + Leech Seed is so much better, and many Special Attackers can still KO you, Dialga, Mewtwo, Palkia, Reshiram and a few others.

I used Curse Ferrothorn but it rarely got to set up and even if it did, it didn't do well. Giratina has Will-O-Wisp so you are not sweeping stall, Lugia will just blow you out or Sub first. Groudon has Fire Punch these days. Skarmory will Taunt and make you run out of PP before you kill it.

CB Ferrothorn hits hard right off the bat so it has a lot of surprise factor.

I think Curse should stay in AC.

 

[hamiltonion]

Like I said earlier, Curse Ferrothorn is by no means a bad set but it seems quite pointless. Spikes are really too good to ditch and setting up Curse is pretty hard since most players get the drift and switch to a phazer. Also Ferrothorn really hates a burn which ruins him. If you get a burn, forget about doing ANYTHING. I always ended up using this set as Standard Ferro anyway just without Spikes- Come in on stuff, Leech Seed, Switch out if lucky get a curse then switch out. Also, stuff like Palkia and Dialga with Fire Blast still dont give a fuck and 2HKO. Really, just run normal Ferrothorn.

QC REJECTED 2/3

 

[shrang]

Fair enough

 

[Tobes]

Rejecting for the reasons listed above.

QC Rejected: 3/3

 

[Nexus]

moving