Ferrothorn (Analysis)

theamericandream38

theamericandream38

598.png

Ferrothorn
[Overview]

<p>Ferrothorn is one of the best tanks in the VGC 2012 metagame, with defensive stats superior to most Pokemon legal in the VGC 2012 metagame. Ferrothorn's strong defenses are backed up by its superb typing, Grass / Steel, which leaves it weak to just two types of attacks, Fighting and Fire. More importantly, it resists many attacking types commonly used in the VGC 2012 metagame, including Water, Rock, Electric, and Dragon. This allows Ferrothorn to switch in with relative ease and set up Leech Seed. Ferrothorn is at its best against teams based around rain, as it walls many common threats to rain teams. Ferrothorn is not without its weaknesses, however. Its 4x weakness to Fire-type attacks make it extremely vulnerable to a number of common Pokemon in the VGC 2012 metagame, and one must be very careful when playing with Ferrothorn to avoid getting caught off guard by one. Lastly, Ferrothorn's paltry base 20 Speed makes it one of the slowest pokemon in the VGC 2012 metagame. This can be taken advantage of with Trick Room, or you can just accept that Ferrothorn will move last every turn.</p>


[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect
move 3: Power Whip
move 4: Gyro Ball
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
evs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD
ivs: 0 speed

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This moveset takes advantage of Ferrothorn's capabilities by focusing on its defensive potential while still allowing it to threaten opposing Pokemon. Your main plan with Ferrothorn should be to Leech Seed your opponent's Pokemon and stall with Protect. Power Whip's damage potential is not to be underestimated, as Ferrothorn has a reasonable base 94 Attack and receives STAB on the attack. Ground- and/Water-type Pokemon, such as Gastrodon and Swampert, are common in the VGC 2012 metagame, and Power Whip scores a 4x super effective hit on both of them. Gyro Ball takes advantage of the STAB bonus in addition to Ferrothorn's low Speed stat, but unfortunately does not have good coverage.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A Relaxed nature is used to maximize Ferrothorn's stats by boosting its high base Defense, and the focus is placed on Defense EVs is because the majority of the Pokemon that threaten Ferrothorn are physical attackers. Because Ferrothorn resists most commonly seen special attacks, it doesn't need a lot of investment in Special Defense. The given EV spread allows Ferrothorn, if originally at full health, to survive three Blizzards from Abomasnow provided that you still have two Pokemon on your side of the field, which will limit Abomasnow's Blizzard. It is possible to use a more specially defensive EV spread, which would allow Ferrothorn to take Heat Wave from Pokemon such as Infernape and Zapdos more comfortably; this would also enable Ferrothorn to wall Water-type Pokemon even more easily. You can also elect to run even more Defense EVs, which would help against Fighting-type threats such as Hitmontop and Terrakion.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Other move options include Substitute, Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Explosion. Substitute is preferable in Trick Room, since it will allow Ferrothorn to use the move before potentially being hit by a status move, one of its prime downfalls. Toxic is an option for more passive damage, but it should be noted that Poison- and Grass-types, Poison Heal Breloom, and other Ferrothorn are immune to both Toxic and Leech Seed. If you use Thunder Wave, Gyro Ball should be replaced with Iron Head because it will be much weaker due to the opponent's lower Speed. Explosion allows Ferrothorn to go out with a bang, but make sure that its teammate either resists or is immune to the move. A more attack-focused set is possible - ; with 244 Attack EVs and a Brave nature, Gyro Ball will OHKO a number of common Pokemon, including Toxicroak. This setup can catch an opponent off guard, but Ferrothorn will not be able to take hits as well. One possible way to enjoy the best of both worlds would be to set up Trick Room, enabling Ferrothorn to move before Pokemon that threaten it and knock them out with a powerful Gyro Ball or Power Whip. As for items, Occa Berry is an option to help Ferrothorn survive one Fire-type attack, but Leftovers offers more long-term sustainability.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>Zapdos counters Ferrothorn very well, taking minimal damage from its attacks and 2HKOing it with Heat Wave. Fire-type Pokemon such as Chandelure, Ninetales, and Infernape threaten to OHKO Ferrothorn and are unafraid of it as well. Salamence and Togekiss are other special attackers that have access to Heat Wave, and the move is always an option on them if you feel that Ferrothorn is a threat to your team. Hitmontop has a 68.75% chance to OHKO the standard Ferrothorn with Fighting Gem-boosted Close Combat and does not take significant damage from Ferrothorn in return. Hidden Power Fire is an option on any special attacker to deal with Ferrothorn easily, but is not recommended unless your team has a significant weakness to Ferrothorn. Pokemon packing sleep-inducing moves can keep Ferrothorn in check for a time, as they will almost assuredly outspeed it and put it to sleep before it can move. However, most Pokemon that commonly carry sleep moves in VGC 2012 cannot deal significant damage to Ferrothorn, so it is unwise to rely solely on them.</p>
 
Nitpick
This is compounded by the fact that Ferrothorn receives a boost in Special Defense when there is a Sandstorm blowing on the field, which is not uncommon in the VGC 2012 metagame.
Click to expand...
Only Rock types get the Special Defense boost. So Ferrothorn doesn't get the boost as he is not a Rock type.
 
If you have Trick Room support, you can opt for more offense, by using 252 HP/252 Attack/4 Def which worked fine for me. You can still set up Leech Seed while your partner Trick Rooms, and then proceed to wreck the opponent with STAB Power Whip and STAB Gyro Ball.
 
Your EVs are suboptimal.

1) They not add up to 508 (they add up to 472).
2) As a general rule of thumb, Pokemon with lower HP than defenses should have max HP before investing in the defensive stats if they want to tank hits from both physical and special attacks.
3) Also 176 HP EVs wastes a stat point at Lv.50

An EV spread of 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD grants you roughly the same physical bulk as your spread (a teeny bit more, actually), and 8.7% more special bulk (partly due to the fact that you're missing 36 EVs...but even then, if you put all of those EVs into SpD, you still have 5.85% less special bulk, and a number that huge isn't something you can expect the extra Leech Seed recovery to fix. A spread of 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD lets Ferrothorn take advantage of a nearby jump-point in Defense and still has 4.45% more special bulk than your spread-assuming that the rest of the missing EVs went into Special Defense. Ferrothorn has 2% more physical defense as well.

Given how much of a bulk increase you could get from the above spreads, maybe Ferrothorn has room for some Attack investment.

Also Relaxed > Impish because Ferrothorn wonderfully outspeeds almost everything under Trick Room :p. Oh and it powers up Gyro Ball.
 
Jibaku said:
Your EVs are suboptimal.

1) They not add up to 508 (they add up to 472).
2) As a general rule of thumb, Pokemon with lower HP than defenses should have max HP before investing in the defensive stats if they want to tank hits from both physical and special attacks.
3) Also 176 HP EVs wastes a stat point at Lv.50

An EV spread of 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD grants you roughly the same physical bulk as your spread (a teeny bit more, actually), and 8.7% more special bulk (partly due to the fact that you're missing 36 EVs...but even then, if you put all of those EVs into SpD, you still have 5.85% less special bulk, and a number that huge isn't something you can expect the extra Leech Seed recovery to fix. A spread of 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD lets Ferrothorn take advantage of a nearby jump-point in Defense and still has 4.45% more special bulk than your spread-assuming that the rest of the missing EVs went into Special Defense. Ferrothorn has 2% more physical defense as well.

Given how much of a bulk increase you could get from the above spreads, maybe Ferrothorn has room for some Attack investment.

Also Relaxed > Impish because Ferrothorn wonderfully outspeeds almost everything under Trick Room :p. Oh and it powers up Gyro Ball.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I must have accidently typed something in wrong, because my EVs on PO added up to 508. Also I appreciate the input on the EVs, thanks.
 
Ferrothorn's Brave 244 Atk Gyro Ball OHKOes Toxicroak, 2HKOes Thundurus, and does huge damage to anything remotely offensive, while Power Whip hits Water-types such as Politoed that resist Gyro Ball. A spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def Brave allows Ferrothorn to take hits and hit incredibly hard in return except against opposing Steel-types; I'd try that out as well. In addition, Ferrothorn loves Chople, Occa, and Sitrus Berry. While Leftovers helps more with Leech Seed stalling, against opponents such as Terrakion or Chandelure, resist berries are incredibly useful, while Sitrus is better for a more offensive build just to allow it to take a few more hits without relying upon Leech Seed recovery.
 
Ferrothorn is awesome.

Anyways

1) Mention Gyarados and Latios as good partners. Gyarados you should already be familiar with for obvious reasons 9.9. Latios helps against Zapdos, who breaks Gyarados + Ferrothorn, while still taking out slower fire types. Anyways just focus more on supporting it because Ferrothorn needs quite a bit of support to perform well.

2) Drizzle support is worth considering as Ferrothorn can now wall Zapdos and survive other stray fire attacks as well. You probably still want Intimidate support of some sort so thorn can destroy Toxicroak though. Speaking of which, you probably also want to mention that one of Ferrothorn's most notable roles is harassing rain teams, walling Politoed, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Gastrodon, and can take down Toxicroak with Intimidate support. It also holds itself relatively well against Scizor, provided that it does not have Superpower.

3) Try out an offensive / spdef spread if possible. The latter does a ton of damage like what danny mentioned, while the latter rounds its bulk better (and with Intimidate support Ferrothorn can still tank a lot of hits on the physical end).
 
Chandelure is also a good partner, eating up Fighting- and Fire-type attacks that are targeted at Ferrothorn. Sand support is nice when stalling also, with leech seed dealing 12.5% and another 6.25% from Sandstorm, can be costly for the other team. Plus, it gets rid of the Sun and other weather.
 
If you run Twave, Iron Head is a good substitute for Gyro ball and hits slow things like abomasnow harder.
 
Most Abomasnows are KOed by a 252 Atk Brave Ferrothorn regardless, so I think it's an inferior choice.
 
the bp difference between the two is also pretty negligible; min speed aboma (no iron ball) is hit for 91% of the damage, roughly. Iron Head isn't worth it, except for pp issues.

EDIT: gah I'm an idiot
 
The main point though is that when running Paralysis support, Iron Head will hit things like Latios much harder while Gyro Ball would struggle to do over 25% to it. Iron Head also provides flinch and paralysis support for things up to max speed Krookodile.
 
theamericandream38 said:
Ferrothorn's strong defenses are backed up by it's superb typing, Grass/Steel. This typing leaves it weak to just two types of attacks, 2x to Fighting and 4x to Fire.

Thankfully, it's weakness to Fighting is helped by it's strong Defense stat and Iron Barbs ability (because most powerful Fighting-type attacks are contact moves).

Ferrothorn is at it's best against teams based around Rain Dance or Drizzle, as it walls most of the commonly used Pokemon that take advantage/set up Rain Dance. Ferrothorn is not without weaknesses, however.

It's 4x weakness to Fire-type attacks make it extremely vunerable to a number of common Pokemon in the VGC 2012 metagame, and one must be very careful when playing with Ferrothorn to avoid getting caught off guard from an unexpected Fire-type attack.

Ferrothorn is also extremely slow, as it's 20 base speed makes it one of the slowest pokemon in the VGC 2012 metagame.

This moveset for Ferrothorn takes best advantage of Ferrothorn's capabiliites by focusing on it's defensive potential while still allowing it to threaten opposing Pokemon.

Substitute is better if you are using Trick Room, because then Ferrothorn actually has a chance to Sub before getting hit with a status move (one of it's main weaknesses).

The key to maximizing Ferrothorn's utility is the ability to effectively deal with it's counters, so keep that in mind when you are building your team and decided to include Ferrothorn.
Click to expand...

All bolded uses of "it's" should be "its" and the bolded "make" should be "makes". From the large number of times you added the apostrophe, it should be clear that English isn't your first language. Also, I made a certain italicized correction because Drizzle Politoed is legal in VGC 2012.
 
I ran a pretty effective curse ferra as my counter to rain. He barely gets hurt, and can easily set up curse with a 252 hp, 252 sp.def spread.
 
tennisace said:
A+, would read again
Click to expand...

Agreed.

soul_survivor said:
I ran a pretty effective curse ferra as my counter to rain. He barely gets hurt, and can easily set up curse with a 252 hp, 252 sp.def spread.
Click to expand...

Leech Seed has a ton more longevity than Curse, and Ferrothorn walls and kills almost anything on rain anyway. Setting up, especially with something slow like Curse, isn't really viable.


Rain teams don't use Rain Dance, they usually use Drizzle. Change all mentions of Rain Dance to Drizzle, mention alternate EV spreads to take physical hits like Hitmontop's or Terrakion's CC more easily, and stuff like MixApe's Heat Wave, and fully specially defensive to really mess with most rain teams, taking Zappy Heat Wave a ton more easily and just taking a noticeable amount less from boosted Water-type attacks. It's pretty effective, since the only common physical attacker on rain teams that can do anything to Ferro is Toxicroak, which a partner like Gyara or w/e can beat really easily.

Add that and QC 2/2
 
cosmicexplorer said:
Agreed.



Leech Seed has a ton more longevity than Curse, and Ferrothorn walls and kills almost anything on rain anyway. Setting up, especially with something slow like Curse, isn't really viable.


Rain teams don't use Rain Dance, they usually use Drizzle. Change all mentions of Rain Dance to Drizzle, mention alternate EV spreads to take physical hits like Hitmontop's or Terrakion's CC more easily, and stuff like MixApe's Heat Wave, and fully specially defensive to really mess with most rain teams, taking Zappy Heat Wave a ton more easily and just taking a noticeable amount less from boosted Water-type attacks. It's pretty effective, since the only common physical attacker on rain teams that can do anything to Ferro is Toxicroak, which a partner like Gyara or w/e can beat really easily.

Add that and QC 2/2
Click to expand...

The effect is still called Rain, so I feel like that is more proper than referring to it as Drizzle. Made the other edits, though.
 
The effect is called rain, but not Rain Dance. That is what you should call it, rain, not rain dance since no one is setting it up that way.
 
remove add comments

theamericandream38 said:
[Overview]

Ferrothorn is one of the strongest tanks in the VGC 2012 metagame. It has very high base defense (131) and special defense (116), a trait that is rare in a non-uber , with high defensive stats rivaling that of many Uber Pokemon. It also has a reasonable base HP stat (74) to go along with these defenses. Ferrothorn's strong defenses are backed up by it's superb typing, Grass<space>/<space>Steel. This typing which leaves it weak to just two types of attacks, 2x to Fighting and 4x to Fire. Thankfully, it's weakness to Fighting is helped by it's strong Defense stat and Iron Barbs ability (because most powerful Fighting-type attacks are contact moves). More importantly, it resists many of the common types of attacks attacks commonly used in the VGC 2012 metagame, including Water-, Rock-, Electric-, and Dragon-type attacks, among others. This allows Ferrothorn to switch in in many different kinds of situations with relative ease and set up a Leech Seed lock. Ferrothorn is at it's best against teams based around rain, as it walls most of the commonly used Pokemon that take advantage/set up Rain many common threats to rain teams. Ferrothorn is not without its weaknesses, however. It's 4x weakness to Fire-type attacks make it extremely vulnerable to a number of common Pokemon in the VGC 2012 metagame, and one must be very careful when playing with Ferrothorn to avoid getting caught off guard from by an unexpected Fire-type attack. An Occa Berry can be used to remedy this problem once, but Ferrothorn has a poor matchup with most Pokemon that use Fire-type moves in the VGC 2012 metagame regardless. consider putting this in OO Lastly, Ferrothorn's is also extremely slow, as it's paltry base 20 base Speed makes it one of the slowest pokemon in the VGC 2012 metagame. This can be taken advantage of with Trick Room, or you can just accept that Ferrothorn will move last almost every turn.

sorry for committing wordgenocide here, but the overview's supposed to be kept brief and general

[SET]
name: Tanky Leech Seeder Tank
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect
move 3: Power Whip
move 4: Gyro Ball
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Speed)
evs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD
ivs: 0 speed

[SET COMMENTS]

This moveset for Ferrothorn takes best advantage of Ferrothorn's capabilities by focusing on it's defensive potential while still allowing it to threaten opposing Pokemon. Your main plan with Ferrothorn is should be to Leech Seed your opponent's Pokemon and stall with Protect. Power Whip's damage potential is not to be underestimated, as Ferrothorn has a reasonable base 94 base Attack and receives a STAB bonus from on the attack. Several Ground<space>/<space>Water type Pokemon, such as..., are common in the VGC 2012 metagame, and Power Whip takes advantage of them by scoring a 4x super effective hit. Gyro Ball takes advantage of the STAB bonus in addition to Ferrothorn's low Speed stat, but Steel-type attacks are not Super Effective against much keep in mind the poor coverage of Steel-type attacks.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

A Relaxed nature is used to maximize Ferrothorn's stats, and the focus is placed on Defense EVs is because the majority of the Pokemon who can that threaten Ferrothorn are physical attackers. The majority of special attacks commonly used in the VGC 2012 metagame are resisted by Ferrothorn, so As Ferrothorn resists most commonly seen special attacks, it doesn't need a lot of investment in Special Defense. Even in unfriendly weather conditions, with hail damage negating Leftovers recovery, these EVs allow Ferrothorn to survive 3 Blizzards from Abomasnow, (provided that you still have 2 Pokemon on the field so that Blizzard is not at full power), with Leftovers even canceling out the Hail damage you may receive. It is possible to use a more special-defensive oriented specially defensive EV set spread, which would allow Ferrothorn to take Heat Wave from Pokemon like such as Mixed Attacker Infernape and Zapdos more easily comfortably, as well as allowing ; this would also enable Ferrothorn to wall Water-type Pokemon even more easily. You can also use an even more physical-defensive oriented EV spread elect to run even more Defense EVs, which would help against physically based Fighting-type threats to Ferrothorn like such as Hitmontop and Terrakion.

[Other Options]

Other move options include Substitute, Toxic (although some Grass types are also Poison type and are thus immune to both Leech Seed and Toxic), Thunder Wave, and Explosion. Bear in mind that some Grass-types have a Poison secondary typing and are thus immune to both Leech Seed and Toxic. Additionally, if you use Thunder Wave, Iron Head should be used over Gyro Ball should be replaced with Iron Head because Gyro Ball it will be much weaker due to the opponent's lower Speed. Substitute is better preferred if you are using Trick Room, because then Ferrothorn actually has a chance to Sub will get a chance to put up a Substitute before getting hit with a status move, (one of it's main weaknesses). A more attack-focused set is possible, as ; with 244 Attack EVs and a boosting Brave nature, Gyro Ball will OHKO a number of common Pokemon, including Toxicroak. This setup can catch an opponent off guard, but Ferrothorn will not be able to take hits as well if you use this set. One possible way to get around this enjoy the best of both worlds would be to set up Trick Room, so that enabling Ferrothorn can to move before Pokemon that could be a threat to threaten it and knock them out with a powerful Gyro Ball or Power Whip.

[Checks and Counters]

this entire section belongs in AC!! i can't help here because i haven't the faintest idea what vgc2012 is, but think of what you would do when faced with an opposing ferrothorn - write it from the pov of someone trying to prepare their team against ferrothorn. hope that helped.

As stated before, you Ferrothorn must be very wary of Fire-type attacks when using Ferrothorn. Common Fire-type attacks include Heat Wave and Flare Blitz, and often come from Zapdos, Infernape, Heatran, and Chandelure. The Fire-type Pokemon are all weak to Ground-type attacks, and Zapdos crumbles in the face of Tyranitar, which makes him making the sand tyrant a solid teammate for Ferrothorn. It also brings summons a sandstorm with him to that chips away at the opponent's health, which works well with Leech Seed. Another good teammate is Gyarados, as it counters the aforementioned Fire-type Pokemon quite well and brings an Intimidate with it, which can also has Intimidate to help against Fighting-types such as Hariyama and Terrakion. Latios is also a strong partner, as Zapdos is one of the biggest threats to Ferrothorn and is very common and Latios is very useful against it fares well against one of the biggest threats to Ferrothorn, Zapdos. Grass-type Pokemon can try to outstall Ferrothorn as they are immune to Leech Seed, but Ferrothorn's bulk, immunity to sandstorm, and access to Leftovers recovery allow it to win most stall wars. The key to maximizing Ferrothorn's utility is the ability to making sure your team can effectively deal with it's counters, so keep that in mind when you are building your team and decided to include Ferrothorn selecting teammates for Ferrothorn.
Click to expand...

GP APPROVED (1/2)

contrib_gp.png
 
your Checks and Counters section is stillll not exactly appropriate - suggested teammates belong in the second paragraph of AC. try referring to this or some of the onsite analyses if it still isn't clear what we're looking for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top