ORAS OU Fangs Of War - An ORAS OU Quickstall Team ft. Gliscor [In-Depth Analysis]

Fangs Of War - An ORAS OU Quickstall Team ft. Gliscor

Team At A Glance

472.png
080.png
003-m.png
485.png
227.png
036.png


Introduction

Hello Smogon! It’s been a while. I haven’t been active on the forums for almost a year now, so I should probably re-introduce myself. My name is BST, a Smogon member since Gen 5 but have been battling competitively since Gen 4. Back in Gen 5, I made a couple of teams that I published on this forum, the most successful being Madre Terra, a sandstorm team that was one of the most view RMTs on this forum while it was alive. Since then, I’ve taken a hiatus from Pokemon, but I’ve returned several months ago, and I have been working to publish an iteration the latest team I’ve constructed.

This team has roots back in Generation 4, where I was a massive fan of the combination of Toxic Stall Zapdos and Gliscor, which worked incredibly well together despite shared weaknesses and not much type synergy. It took me a while to get used to the metagame shifts in Gen 6, but once everything had settled down and overpowered threats such as Mega Lucario, Greninja and Aegislash were put to their proper places. I began thinking; perhaps that combination is still viable? Since then, I started experimenting with a core of Zapdos, Gliscor, and Gastrodon. Simultaneously playing around with an Unaware core of Quagsire and Clefable (which I might have put into one of my less successful starting RMTs), I eventually arrived at this team.

Those of you who’ve read Madre Terra will probably know a thing or two about my writing style; essentially, it’s incredibly long, essay-like, and sometimes convoluted, since I explain my entire thought process when playing with this team. So if you don’t want a 5k+ word count RMT, this post isn’t for you; but in my opinion, one has to know how a team is meant to be played to play it effectively, and that is exactly what I tried to show in this RMT.

Let me take a while at the start to explain my general playstyle. I was always a balance players back in Generation 4. I loved pokemon such as SleepTalk Rotom and Gyarados, and how games were based off comparative advantage than pokemon simply taking turns nuking each other (which this metagame sometimes feels like). But as the metagame changed, I was forced to do the same; in Generation 5, Madre Terra was the product of me trying to insert my playstyle and make it work in the Gen 5 environment. At around the same time I wrote Essays on the Art of Quickstall, which eventually became the predecessor of this team (and while the mindset’s changed a little, there’s still many similarities, so check it out if you want another 10k read, heh).

Since then, I’ve always felt that the playstyles common in Gen 6 never really clicked; I was never able to succeed much with them. Eventually, I decided to return to Toxic Stall Gliscor, and see how I could make a team that could preserve my playstyle while simultaneously being successful in today’s metagame.

In a nutshell, this team incorporates aspects of offense, stall, and balance. Gliscor, the pokemon the team is built off of, represents the team as a whole. Toxic Stall Gliscor has the ability to single-handedly take down entire teams on its own if it is given an opportunity to set up an intact Substitute, and making one misplay can easily mean the loss or crippling of multiple pokemon for the enemy. On the other hand, Gliscor’s defensive bulk is not to be underestimated, and Gliscor can wall many opponents that lack a super-effective attack to damage it with. These two elements factor in to create a sweeper-esque pokemon with defensive capabilities and a forgiving playstyle. This team is based around removing Gliscor’s counters, namely multi-hit move users, Toxic-immune pokemon, pokemon that can heal off poison damage or poison itself, and substitute setup sweepers, as well as special hard hitters in general.

Most offensive win conditions are brought in only rarely during the early-mid game to preserve it for a setup sweep late-game. If a win condition is crippled, the entire offensive team can fall to its knees. Thus, playing with offensive teams often feels like playing with 5.5 pokemon early on, and that can affect early performance. Gliscor, on the other hand, can be a force to be reckoned with early if played right. Even if a full on substitute stall is impossible until its checks and counters are removed, it can still cripple any checks the opponent may respond with if it manages to get a free substitute. If Gliscor manages to get a substitute unharmed, they are faced with a difficult decision. Unless they have Substitute on their setup sweepers, stallbreakers won’t work efficiently; even with Taunt, repeated Earthquakes in the time it would take them to both Taunt and break Gliscor’s substitute will knock them down to half HP or lower. If they keep the current pokemon in, Gliscor will proceed to stall it out before moving on to the next with an intact substitute. If they bring in a check, it will at least receive a Toxic, an Earthquake, or often both before it can force Gliscor out; having regained its HP through Poison Heal, Gliscor would have lost nothing, while the opponent would have came close to losing a major asset in dealing with Gliscor.
In a metagame with ridiculously hard hitters, this is Gliscor’s strength. It doesn’t matter if the opponent sets up; if behind a substitute and once the opponent is Toxic’ed, Gliscor can keep spamming Substitute and Protect until they fall, with Poison heal negating all of substitute’s self-damage.

This team utilizes a fire-water-grass core to help support Gliscor. Slowbro serves as a regenerating pivot, taking damage, forcing the opponent out with its plethora of coverage moves, then regenerating its health back. Venusaur is a general-purpose tank, taking the consistent damage this Slowbro set cannot. Heatran is a utility pokemon, setting up Stealth Rocks and preventing Scizor, Ferrothorn, Volcarona and Talonflame from overpowering the team. Apart from those members, Skarmory takes the repeated physical beatings Slowbro cannot, and phases away threatening setup sweepers. On the side, Clefable comes in time to time to counter setup with Unaware, heal the team’s ailments, and possibly sweep if the enemy team is too special-oriented for Gliscor to truly shine. This team isn’t built to counter all possible threats, but to provide ways to play around them. Gliscor plays a major part in this, as most threats cease to become threats when behind a substitute.

Phew, this took a lot of time to create! This team isn’t a feature like the last one; rather, even after months of work, it is still a work in progress. Thus, I haven’t completely written up everything about this team, and there may be sections missing (please forgive ^-^) All feedback is welcome, as I have come here to flesh out any weaknesses I may have not been able to spot.

I think this team might have some potential behind it, which is why I'm posting it earlier to tweak it before any possible final release. I'm currently on a 24 win streak with it on Showdown; I'll see how long that'll continue.


Fangs Of War - Introducing The Team


472.png

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect

Gliscor, despite having a strong place in the OU tier as long as most can remember, seems to be often overshadowed as a defensive wall by the ubiquity of other stronger defensive ground-types. Landorus-T, its primary rival, has a number of strengths such as its high attack that allows for strong hits even when built defensively, as well as the always useful Intimidate as its ability. Even when looking for a defensive Ground type with reliable recovery, Hippowdon is still a strong competitor, with its dual function as a Sandstorm setter and its access to a range of phasing moves differentiating it from Gliscor. If to make things worse, its quadruple Ice weakness discourages its use in teams that employ common Dragon-types such as Garchomp and Dragonite. Indeed, even I as a long-time user of Gliscor in my teams tend to step back from using it as a pure defensive wall, a stallbreaker, or a setup sweeper.

As a wall, Gliscor suffers from several major weaknesses from Ice and Water-type attacks, thus relegating it to a physical counter to hard hitters such as Tyranitar, Garchomp, and Mega Lopunny. However, Toxic Stall Gliscor holds a drastically different niche. Poison Heal, along with an activated Toxic Orb, allows it to absorb any status whilst healing 12.5% of its maximum HP every turn; double that of Leftovers. Crucially, this number is exactly half of the health drained when creating a Substitute, its primary tool of choice. In a metagame filled with incredibly strong attacks from both stallbreakers and sweepers, Gliscor can no longer switch into neutral physical attacks and trust it to 3HKO; especially if the attack is boosted. However, Substitute allows it to take a single attack of any damage potential with only a small scratch to its health. This is where Poison Heal differentiates Gliscor from other Substitute stallers; the combination of Substitute and Protect allows Gliscor to stay at the same amount of health indefinitely, as long as the PP for the two moves are available. The Toxic Orb, as a side note, also allows Gliscor to switch into predicted Tricks to cripple the enemy without requiring a turn to Toxic.

Most decently experienced players will already know the above by heart, so let us examine the technicalities of good Toxic usage. Toxic damage begins at 1/16th of the opponent’s health on the first turn, and increases the damage by 1/16th every turn. Thus, it takes 6 turns to take down an opponent with no Leftovers or similar recovery item (5 after Stealth Rock damage), and 7 turns to take down an opponent with Leftovers (6 after Stealth Rock). Gliscor has 16PP for Substitute and 16PP for Protect; more than enough to stall multiple pokemon out from full health easily.

At the risk of unnecessarily elongating the description for Gliscor, I will explain the general mentality I go through when attempting to take down opposing teams. There are three general categories of opposing pokemon.

Direct counters are speed-invested stallbreakers with Taunt and a powerful offensive move to threaten Gliscor with, as well as multi-hit move users that can chunk Gliscor down even through a substitute. (The rare Infiltrator user fits into this category as well.) These pokemon, if on the enemy team, will prevent Gliscor from doing any work, and must be taken down before bringing Gliscor out for more than a couple turns. Since Gliscor tends to attract these counters, double-switching into its respective check or whittling it down with Earthquake usually keeps these opponents from functioning into the mid/late game.

Checks encompass a larger list of pokemon. Most dedicated special attackers can deal around half or more of Gliscor’s health, while physical attackers with Ice or Water type moves can still threaten a 1 or 2HKO. In Gliscor’s case, however, the word “check” takes on a much less important role, as it can easily play around them given the proper preparation. Firstly, if the check in question is already poisoned and is slower than Gliscor, it is easily taken down in a matter of several turns and allows Gliscor a free substitute if it switches out. Even if the opposing check is faster, if Gliscor is already under a substitute and they are badly poisoned the same result occurs. Early-mid game, Gliscor aims to capitalize on the following third category of pokemon to create a free substitute, lure in its checks, and chunk it with a combination with Toxic and Earthquake until it breaks Gliscor’s substitute; at which point Gliscor is called back until another opportunity arises.

All pokemon that do not fit in either category are set-up bait for Gliscor. Even early-game, as long as direct counters do not exist, you must leap for every opportunity to switch in on set-up bait; the free turn that results when they switch out allows Gliscor to set up a free substitute, allowing it to wear down any checks that may switch in. Gliscor is relatively unique in this way, as it can single-handedly take down checks over several encounters throughout the early-mid game, dismantling opposing teams.

To be brief, Gliscor aims to set up substitutes every chance it gets against set-up bait, so that it can either guarantee a takedown on the opponent or to damage or cripple any incoming checks without requiring prediction. Once all checks are removed or damaged to a point where Gliscor can take them down after a substitute, the game is pretty much won; Gliscor’s substitutes combined with its rapid recovery prevents any hax-related losses due to critical hits late-game.

One major mistake players must avoid is the temptation of using Gliscor as a physical wall early-game. While most defensive Gliscor sets can absorb a sole Outrage just fine, this Gliscor set’s lack of instant reliable recovery can hamper its performance if it gets chunked down to 30~50% HP early game. The other team members are there to take damage from hard hitters and checks early while whittling the opponent down; if in doubt, keep Gliscor safe until an opportunity presents itself. Regard Gliscor in a similar manner to a set-up sweeping win condition, except it offers a slightly larger margin for error.

080.png

Slowbro @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

To support Gliscor and wear down its checks and counters, this team employs a somewhat defensive fire-water-grass core that specializes in dealing out decent chip damage while preventing any loss of pressure. As aforementioned, Gliscor creates a large amount of pressure that keeps wise opponents from keeping setup bait on the field for too long a period of time. While I initially considered a more defensive Chansey + Skarmory core during this team’s infancy, any defensive advantage these two juggernauts provided was ruined by the loss of pressure it caused, allowing setup sweepers and stallbreakers to easily switch in and threaten a KO; a situation where an unprepared Gliscor cannot excel in. Thus, in this core, each of the members offers a unique risk to the opponent to prevent setup sweepers.

Slowbro was chosen because of several major reasons. Firstly, his stats make him a defensive behemoth, taking most unboosted physical hits easily; something Gliscor is too important to use for in the early-mid game. His Water/Psychic typing allows him to cushion the multitude of water and ice-type attacks Gliscor may be threatened by, while providing a bulky answer to any Darmanitan Flare Blitz-es or any similar high-powered water/fire attack. His ability, Regenerator, allows him to work as a pivot early-game; taking damage then healing up automatically upon exiting the field. Because of Slowbro’s overall bulk, good typing and his unique defensive potential, Slowbro offers a low-risk answer to many opposing pokemon in the early-game, when their exact set or offensive presence is still uncertain.

Slowbro also helps maintain the defensive pressure Gliscor creates simply due to the excellent coverage he holds. Scald, his primary move of choice, constantly forces opponents to weigh the risk of a burn against any advantage switching or staying in may provide, and will somewhat discourage the switching in of their offensive win conditions. Psyshock, while serving as a secondary STAB, prevents Slowbro from being walled by special walls and special defense boosting strategies. Slowbro has enough bulk to take a Life Orb Shadow Ball from an invested Gengar even when fairly damaged, for example, and can retaliate with a 1HKO from Psyshock; healing up afterwards due to Regenerator. Ice Beam and Flamethrower are excellent coverage moves on a bulky water type; 2HKO’ing Multiscale Dragonite and 1HKO’ing physically defensive Ferrothorn, and prevents common walls and sweepers from exploiting Slowbro’s relatively low special attack when uninvested.

Slowbro does have several weaknesses, however, where its team must cover for it. Assault Vest allows for easy tanking of special attacks, but also prevents him from employing Slack Off, which severely hampers his potential to stay in through multiple attacks. It is and should be played as a pivot, taking damage on switch-ins and dealing decent damage to incoming opponents while discouraging any opposition attempting to set up on it. Venusaur has a much larger tanking presence, while Heatran has much more utility.

003-m.png

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Sleep Powder

Gliscor’s unique strength is its ability to face almost every foe once behind a substitute, but requires that one free turn for its true potential to be used correctly. Venusaur fills a similar role, but one that is more oriented towards the early-mid game. As a general juggernaut with few weaknesses, Mega Venusaur is the team’s general answer towards many common pokemon due to its ability to take most hits and retaliate with a deceptively powerful Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb. As the Grass element of the team’s core, Venusaur does what Slowbro cannot; stay in for long periods of time, dealing strong sustained damage while tanking large amounts of chip damage.

Venusaur has several strengths that allowed its selection over any competitors for a slot on this team. Firstly, its Grass / Poison typing, while the source of several weaknesses, is also perfect for countering pokemon that Gliscor has trouble with; the most prominent being Mega Heracross, which ignores its Substitutes while dealing massive amounts of damage after a SD boost, and Azumarill, which can still chunk down even Slowbro if it is damaged prior. Its grass typing makes it an excellent check to most bulky waters that bother Gliscor and wall Slowbro, while the poison type shuts down any hard-hitting fairies such as Mega Gardevoir as well as the rare Slurpuff and Clefable. Mega Venusaur’s excellent mix of stats allow it to tank attacks from both the physical and special side of the spectrum, even enabling it to take a +6 Play Rough from Azumarill and KO back with one of its 2 STAB moves. Its ability is also a major boon, allowing it to face pokemon such as Mamoswine, who’s Icicle Spear can easily simultaneously take down Gliscor’s substitute and knock it out.

Venusaur is armed with two prominent STAB moves. Giga Drain, while the weaker of the two, offers decent sustain when tanking attacks and can hit water-types hard, even overcoming damage from burns if necessary. It also boasts a 100% accuracy, which can be vital when securing an important KO. Sludge Bomb is more powerful, and offers a 30% chance of poison; allowing Venusaur to threaten any switch-ins with a status that would make Gliscor that much more potent. As said before, this team, despite its defensiveness, is built off pressure; while Venusaur lacks any nuke potential, the combination of the two statuses it threatens can discourage switch-ins. Synthesis, while not the most reliable of recovery moves, suffices for keeping Venusaur healthy, especially since its Mega stone prevents the use of Leftovers, a critical item for any defensive pokemon. The final move was originally set as Earthquake, to help deal with Steel-types that resist Venusaur’s STABs, but I later found Sleep Powder’s ability to neutralize a single opponent was very useful in disabling Venusaur and Gliscor’s counters and allowing Gliscor to set up substitutes.

Venusaur’s greatest enemy is residual damage, which can pile up quite rapidly if use of Synthesis and Giga Drain is limited. If Venusaur is burned, which can be a common occurrence if one uses it as an answer to Rotom-W, its health will be whittled down extremely quickly. Stealth Rocks, Spikes, and the simple act of switching in to take damage will drop Venusaur down below acceptable ranges of health if one is not careful, and lacking the strong passive recovery that Slowbro and Gliscor does, it can easily be knocked down to a level of health where just about any attack will KO it, making it difficult to rejuvenate Venusaur safely back to a good HP. Thus, it is essential to use Venusaur solely as a tank, and to avoid making it take unnecessary damage when pivoting. Pokemon such as Azumarill and Mega Heracross (even Rotom-W) can easily run over this team if Venusaur is too low to counter them, making it an essential priority to keep Venusaur healthy and status-free.

485.png

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Ancient Power

Heatran, despite being a member of the team’s core, will usually see much less play than its other two counterparts. Rather than being a tank staple or a key pivot, Heatran exists for several purposes. The first important role is to set up Stealth Rock, and keep it up throughout the game, switching in multiple times to re-set them if necessary (which is especially likely due to the team’s usage of Defog rather than Rapid Spin). Stealth Rock disables some of the team’s major enemies, such as Charizard (Mega Charizard Y with HP Ground can be quite threatening at times, while Mega Charizard X can be a massive threat if Slowbro is not at full health), Volcarona, and Talonflame. Ironically enough, Heatran is also the team’s primary answer to many of these pokemon, which allows Heatran to switch in on them and force them out while simultaneously setting up Stealth Rocks to discourage them from re-entering the field anytime soon.

Heatran’s Fire / Steel typing is excellent, checking many Steel-type, Fire-type and Bug-type threats such as Scizor and Talonflame if they lack a fighting or ground-type coverage move. If Venusaur has not had a chance to Mega-Evolve yet, Lava Plumes can be deadly; Slowbro can soak them up, but not without risking a burn which would necessitate a switch to Clefable to heal, wasting important turns, losing momentum, and forcing Gliscor to re-enable its Toxic Orb. Flash Fire allows it to take Sun-boosted fire moves easily, and powers up Heatran’s Lava Plume to decently threatening levels just by its damage alone. Flame Body was briefly considered, due to its surprise effect and how often Heatran is used to absorb U-Turns, but in the end having Slowbro as the sole fire-type resist in a metagame where Solar Beam Charizard Y runs rampant was simply not a wise choice.

Heatran’s primary STAB is Lava Plume; chosen over Flamethrower and Fire Blast due to its excellent chance to burn. Like Slowbro, Heatran can threaten a crippling burn to any physical checks switching in, helping keep up the pressure. Despite the lack of special attack investment and Lava Plume’s relatively low base power, it can still cripple Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn, while outright 1HKO’ing CB Scizor who makes the mistake of staying in. Ancient Power, despite its ridiculously low base power, is Heatran’s best tool against Talonflame and Charizard Y (braving Focus Miss as a last resort), which it counters most of the time. While the 10% chance should not be relied upon, in the rare case Heatran receives a boost it can become a nightmare to take down. Heatran also functions as the team’s secondary phaser through Roar, which allows it to catch Lum Berry / Substitute Dragonites attempting to set up on it, among other things.

227.png

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Roost
- Whirlwind

The last two slots of the team are reserved for pokemon that can patch up the weaknesses the core cannot fully cover. One such weakness was the team’s vulnerability to sustained powerful physical attacks. Slowbro can take an attack and pivot out, but against a stallbreaker or sweeper that has both speed and power on its side, Slowbro’s lack of recovery can lead to holes blown in the team easily. Skarmory acts as the team’s primary wall, sacrificing damage and pressure for absolute defensive prowess. While its Steel typing is shared with Heatran, Skarmory’s access to reliable recovery makes it a check to most prominent physical sweepers currently popular, including pokemon such as Medicham, which even with Thunderpunch does only a decent chunk of damage, allowing Skarmory to KO back.

Brave Bird serves as Skarmory’s best and only damaging move. Despite Skarmory’s lack of investment, Brave Bird’s high base power gives it surprising damage. It has three primary uses; to chunk down Grass-types and Fighting-types that it may face, to prevent it from becoming Taunt fodder against frail taunt users (think Gengar), and to chip away against pokemon it walls, such as CB Tyranitar and Landorus-T. Skarmory also serves as the team’s entry hazard remover via Defog; while none of the pokemon on the team are particularly weak to Stealth Rock, Gliscor in particular relies on Poison Heal chip healing if dropped low, and having one turn of healing negated every time it switches in can be very bothersome. Toxic Spikes and Spikes also cripple the team’s primary core, despite having no effect on Gliscor and Skarmory. Whirlwind prevents Skarmory from being setup fodder, as pokemon who resist Brave Bird can easily take advantage of its weak offensive ability. This also allows Skarmory in conjunction with Clefable to face most physical setup attackers.

Similarly to Venusaur, keeping Skarmory above 70% health is critical. In the case where a pokemon such as Bisharp is allowed to set up (aka a case where Clefable cannot counter the opponent), it is up to Skarmory to stomach the boosted damage and phase the opponent out. This is made even more important due to Skarmory’s use of defog, meaning that if SR is set up Skarmory must take entry hazard damage in order to get rid of it. Thus, especially in the early game, prioritize Roosting after an enemy switches out than attempting to predict and make a double switch. Skarmory is a wall, and despite the fact it can be used as a pivot, repeated use will wear it down to the point where it becomes sacrifice fodder.

036.png

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind

As the team’s final member, multiple pokemon have filled Clefable’s spot in past iterations of this team. Mienshao stayed for a short time as a scout, momentum-creator and revenge-killer, but its relatively low speed when compared to pokemon such as Latios and Gengar made it a poor choice. With the five members above, this team lacks a cleric; burn and poison on Venusaur and Slowbro respectively can be deadly, and even a burn on Skarmory can limit both its offensive and defensive potential to repeatedly tank attacks. Chansey was considered for the spot for its excellent special bulk and synergy with Skarmory, but Chansey ended up becoming a massive sink for defensive pressure and momentum, allowing opponents to come in freely without fear of any strong attack. In the end, Clefable was chosen because of several reasons. Its fairy typing helps counter Dragon types, especially Latios and Latas due to Skarmory’s inability to deal with them both. While its defensive bulk is not optimal and Clefable often gets 2HKO’ed by neutral hits, Unaware is a massive boon for this team, automatically shutting down Dragon Dancing Dragonites and Salamences, allowing Gliscor to play riskily and set up Substitutes against opposing setup pokemon.

Similar to Skarmory, Clefable holds one offensive STAB attack in Moonblast. While uninvested, Clefable can still 2HKO most Dragonite after Multiscale, which makes it quite threatening. When boosted with Calm Mind, Clefable can become quite the nightmare with only one attack, as the fairy typing is remarkably unresisted apart from poison and steel types, which this team is already well-equipped to deal with. Heal Bell allows Clefable to heal all status on the team, which can save Venusaur, Skarmory, and Slowbro in many situations. It does disable Toxic Orb, however, so caution must be taken when using it; if a Gliscor sweep is imminent, it may be better to keep a teammate status’ed if the situation is not urgent. Due to Softboiled still being incompatible with Unaware, Moonlight was chosen for primary recovery. The combination of Wish + Protect was originally there instead of Moonlight + Calm Mind, but this team already has enough recovery; only Heatran lacks recovery, and Heatran isn’t meant to take multiple hits; rather, it usually uses pressure to come in for free and force opponents out. With Moonlight and Synthesis, this team has an apparent weakness to Sandstorm, but this is fixed by the fact that Gliscor, Slowbro and Skarmory can easily deal with most pokemon on Sandstorm teams, thus relieving the pressure on Clefable and Venusaur.

Calm Mind allows Clefable to function as a sort of secondary win condition. Gliscor excels against physical attackers; but if the opponent’s team is mostly special attackers, thus limiting the pokemon Gliscor can set up on, Clefable can boost with Calm Mind and sweep while removing any status thrown at it. Unaware helps too in this regard, as it ignores any defensive boosts the opponent may rack up to try and cushion Clefable’s attacks or offensive boosts to try and overpower Clefable.

Outro

So there it is! Please remember that this isn't the final feature RMT, but simply a workshop / tuning RMT, so it's not completely polished and may be a bit short in some sections. Also; my EV's haven't been completely tuned, so any EV spread suggestions are welcome. I may add the complete threat list later, or maybe just add pokemon that have been noted to be threatening by both myself and any commenters. For now, I'm going to go get some coffee; this took a hell of a long time to type up...

EDIT: I've had a few requests to elaborate on quickstall. The article I wrote around a year ago (I think) is quite outdated in some aspects, and I've refined the playstyle a little more in a way that allows for more pokemon to use it at least somewhat effectively. Thus, Essays On The Art Of Quickstall shouldn't be used as a complete guide; looking back on it now, there are some parts I got horribly wrong; but I might be writing up an updated one in the days and weeks to come.


Import This Team
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect

Slowbro @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Sleep Powder

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Ancient Power

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind
 
Last edited by a moderator:
hey there, pretty interesting team and definitely a blast from the past back to when venutran archetypes were bigger than they are now. i have a few recommendations that i feel could make this team work better though

firstly, i recommend running roost over protect on gliscor. While not being able to poison yourself as reliably might seem bad, you can always set up sub if youre faster than the target and roost is much more reliable recovery in the long run. especially if your toxic orb gets knocked off and youre forced to heal status with clef, roost makes it so gliscor is not utterly unable to function even if it is still crippled.

this isnt necessarially needed but i dont really see a reason for gliscor to run physdef on this team. i would go for standard specially defensive gliscor here to improve your matchup against tornauds-t. while its not exactly a reliable check to life orb variants, they can be handled if you follow my next suggestion which is to go for knock off > eq. this lets you handle torn if you knock its life orb on the switch as well as gengar and just generally annoying most flying types out there. even stuff like skarm is annoyed by losing its lefties and you can potentially remove the toxic orb from opposing sd gliscor if they try to switch in.

next, i have to say assault vest slowbro is a really bad set. you need the consistent recovery from slack off to reliably handle stuff like zardx and you even mentioned zard was sometimes a problem for you. you cant even use something like thunder wave on zard to reliably cripple it and halt a sweep. changing slowbro to standard defensive variant with thunder wave would improve your matchup against a whole slew of physcial attackers but most notably taunt talonflame and zardx by keeping you at full hp more reliably to take them on.

your venu spread is a little whacky, it could do with adjustment to the standard spread on the analysis.

i think your team would benefit from changing heatran to talonflame. talonflame sports reliable recovery along with the ability to take on threats like zard y and mega gardevoir, both of which threaten this team immensely while heatran is vulnerable to focus blast from these pokemon. it keeps most of the same threats as tran in check but does leave you without a rocker. thankfully i have a change to fix that

on clefable, i recommend changing calm mind to stealth rock. this is really just a change if youre removing tran so you still have a rock setter though. this also gives you a better matchup against opposing stalls as you will be able to set up stealth rock against mega sableye which is just an added perk

finally i would consider changing clefable from unaware to magic guard. dragonite should never be allowed to boost to the point where it threatens clefable and can break past skarmory, thats just poor play. as long as you send clefable in right after dnite comes out you should be fine against it. this does make your manaphy matchup a little shakier, though all manaphy lacking psychic are walled by mega venusaur and your current clefable set loses to it anyways given that you arent running wish + protect (meaning you have no rocks setter or youre weaker to stuff like zardy and mega garde if you decide to keep heatran). unfortunately in a metagame with so many threats, defensive teams are bound to be weak to something, and i think this change would make you much more solid against everything that isnt psychic manaphy. magic guard is also super important for clefable to be able to check various threats that come in for free on a lot of this team like kyurem-b far more reliably.

tl;dr: roost>tect on gliscor, spdef > physdef on gliscor, knock off > eq on gliscor, standard slowbro > av slowbro, change venu spread to standard, talonflame > tran, sr > cm on clefable, magic guard > unaware on clefable.

hope i helped!

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 8 Def / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Roost

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 144 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Sleep Powder

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 212 SpD / 48 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Will-O-Wisp

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
 
Hello man!
Your playstyle is extremely interesting. I just started developing a new concept team that doesn't match any known playstyle. I decided to call it "Quickstall" but now I discover that other people (at least you) shares the same approach to pokemon . I guess that you realize that few people will read such descriptions, but I want you to know that people like me really enjoy a detailed analysis of your thoughts.
The concept is exactly what I call Quickstall : an active wincon based on a fast paced stall strategy (gliscor subtoxic) . U sing the SD set would break the mágic of the team.

I think that you don't need any help so I won't tell you what to use. However I have two points to raise:
-heatran set: always use HP rock, or stone edge. I sometimes stalled out ancient tran with talón by using 8 roosts, too easy . Then try magma ström : in a stall infested meta, trapkilling chansey allows venusaur to sweep the team ( sableye poisoned on the switch, quagsire and clefa out, talon is trapped too, etc. But just use leech seed or HP fire so as to avoid being walled by skarñory and wasting 10 turns of switching and defogging the spikes you could have avoided by using HP fire
-clefable. I just don't use unaware in Quickstall because unaware is for passive teams. Venusaur with Synthesis stops manaphy and thundurus, and dragonite can't hurt your team. Heracross críes vs gliscor. Clefa has no use in your team. Your team basically beats the metagame with 5 Mons , and adding an active 6th slot would be interesting. Togekiss with healbell sounds pretty good and beats the playstyle gliscor can't touch: stall.

I'm not fan of suggesting too much: i just hope I raised to your consciousness some easy changes that make the team way more effective imo.

Could you give me the link of your article about Quickstall? I guess it will give me ideas for my development of a playstyle that I only use, and that looks like yours. I'm not sure it's the same, that's why I need to read this to compare the structure and pick some ideas if it matches :)
 
Thanks for the insightful comments, both of you. You both raise some really good points, so let me address them one by one.

firstly, i recommend running roost over protect on gliscor. While not being able to poison yourself as reliably might seem bad, you can always set up sub if youre faster than the target and roost is much more reliable recovery in the long run. especially if your toxic orb gets knocked off and youre forced to heal status with clef, roost makes it so gliscor is not utterly unable to function even if it is still crippled.

I see what you mean. I think this comes from a fundamental difference in how we use gliscor. I tend to keep it "in the wings", per se, until mid game, so I never need to take much damage. The problem with Roost (which I've tried in the past) is the fact that lacking the Sub+Protect combo leaves Gliscor open to attack from special attackers with water/ice moves that can deal +50% damage to it. Sub+Protect allows Gliscor to essentially face any strong attacker, no matter their attacks, if it already has a sub up or is faster; roost, while making him stronger as a physical wall, really cuts down on his somewhat unique capability to systematically take down his counters over the course of a game. I agree that losing the Orb can be crippling; I usually play around that, though; if the enemy team lacks a variety of status moves, I might just let the Orb be knocked off since there would be no need to Heal Bell. If they have lots of status, I might keep Gliscor from facing potential KO users without a substitute until I know for certain it's safe.

this isnt necessarially needed but i dont really see a reason for gliscor to run physdef on this team. i would go for standard specially defensive gliscor here to improve your matchup against tornauds-t. while its not exactly a reliable check to life orb variants, they can be handled if you follow my next suggestion which is to go for knock off > eq. this lets you handle torn if you knock its life orb on the switch as well as gengar and just generally annoying most flying types out there. even stuff like skarm is annoyed by losing its lefties and you can potentially remove the toxic orb from opposing sd gliscor if they try to switch in.

This could be very viable! The reason I go physdef is to increase the number of pokemon that can't break Sub with a single attack, so Gliscor can set up all over them. With your suggestion, Gliscor lowers the number of complete setup fodder but readies itself to take on his weakness; special attackers a little easier. I might fiddle around with the spreads and see which one works better.

Talking about KO and EQ, I'm a little hesitant, but I'll certainly playtest it. The reason I don't use KO is because Gliscor can chip away at many steel types that stop his Toxic stall shenanigans. Ferrothorn can't break his sub and Gliscor can take it out with a few EQs (see: around 8), especially if it has rocky helmet. Scizor, if it's not a SD variant, can be checked by EQ Gliscor as well. On the other hand, KO could bring more offensive pressure by threatening the loss of items; it's definitely an interesting idea, and one I would be happy to try out.

next, i have to say assault vest slowbro is a really bad set. you need the consistent recovery from slack off to reliably handle stuff like zardx and you even mentioned zard was sometimes a problem for you. you cant even use something like thunder wave on zard to reliably cripple it and halt a sweep. changing slowbro to standard defensive variant with thunder wave would improve your matchup against a whole slew of physcial attackers but most notably taunt talonflame and zardx by keeping you at full hp more reliably to take them on.

Heh, you're right on this one. Slowbro hasn't been carrying his weight that much recently, and I've noticed the lack of Slack Off really does hurt him. I might go something like Scald + Ice Beam though, since it can become setup fodder for DD Drag etc. Thunder Wave might be useful, but again, this team is based off Toxic'ing heavy hitters then letting Gliscor's Sub+Protect shine.

your venu spread is a little whacky, it could do with adjustment to the standard spread on the analysis.

Aye. I'm not personally the best with EV spreads; I'll take a look at the analysis page to see what KOs it prevents.

i think your team would benefit from changing heatran to talonflame. talonflame sports reliable recovery along with the ability to take on threats like zard y and mega gardevoir, both of which threaten this team immensely while heatran is vulnerable to focus blast from these pokemon. it keeps most of the same threats as tran in check but does leave you without a rocker. thankfully i have a change to fix that

on clefable, i recommend changing calm mind to stealth rock. this is really just a change if youre removing tran so you still have a rock setter though. this also gives you a better matchup against opposing stalls as you will be able to set up stealth rock against mega sableye which is just an added perk

Good point. Defensive Talon's access to priority could help this team deal with pesky offensive threats at low HP, which is something that can cripple this team if its check is gone. I didn't think Talon was that bulky; but then again, Heatran wasn't either with no access to recovery. I just wanted a Fire type that could set up rocks, so Heatran wasn't ever a "perfect fit" for the team. I'll definitely try this out. I'm not sure how well this team would fare against an un-Toxic'ed Charizard Y though, since a sun-boosted Fire Blast would probably still chunk Talonflame down.

The second change is a bit harder, mostly due to Clefable being the only one on the team that can take down Magic Guard Reuniclus / Sigilyph. Calm Mind helps against defensive / calm mind boosters as well. I guess it's between Tran + CM Clefable and Talon + SR Clefable; I'll try out both and see how it goes.

inally i would consider changing clefable from unaware to magic guard. dragonite should never be allowed to boost to the point where it threatens clefable and can break past skarmory, thats just poor play. as long as you send clefable in right after dnite comes out you should be fine against it. this does make your manaphy matchup a little shakier, though all manaphy lacking psychic are walled by mega venusaur and your current clefable set loses to it anyways given that you arent running wish + protect (meaning you have no rocks setter or youre weaker to stuff like zardy and mega garde if you decide to keep heatran). unfortunately in a metagame with so many threats, defensive teams are bound to be weak to something, and i think this change would make you much more solid against everything that isnt psychic manaphy. magic guard is also super important for clefable to be able to check various threats that come in for free on a lot of this team like kyurem-b far more reliably.

Fair enough; there weren't many scenarios where Unaware really served a purpose than niche situations like Reuniclus and CM Lati. Again, this team is based of Gliscor Toxic stall, and if Kyurem-B is switched in once or twice to deal with subbed Gliscor early it'll be crippled enough to be taken down. I see what you mean, though; a well played Kyurem-B could destroy this team. I'll test our that suggestion as well.

Hello man!
Your playstyle is extremely interesting. I just started developing a new concept team that doesn't match any known playstyle. I decided to call it "Quickstall" but now I discover that other people (at least you) shares the same approach to pokemon . I guess that you realize that few people will read such descriptions, but I want you to know that people like me really enjoy a detailed analysis of your thoughts.
The concept is exactly what I call Quickstall : an active wincon based on a fast paced stall strategy (gliscor subtoxic) . U sing the SD set would break the mágic of the team.

Thanks! It's cool to know other players are working on this strat as well.

I think that you don't need any help so I won't tell you what to use. However I have two points to raise:
-heatran set: always use HP rock, or stone edge. I sometimes stalled out ancient tran with talón by using 8 roosts, too easy . Then try magma ström : in a stall infested meta, trapkilling chansey allows venusaur to sweep the team ( sableye poisoned on the switch, quagsire and clefa out, talon is trapped too, etc. But just use leech seed or HP fire so as to avoid being walled by skarñory and wasting 10 turns of switching and defogging the spikes you could have avoided by using HP fire

Hmm, interesting and potentially very viable suggestions. I agree on HP Rock; that 10% chance never works anyways, and having more PP doesn't hurt. I've tried magma storm in the past, but doesn't the trap effect disappear when you switch? If so, wouldn't that allow Chansey to switch out very easily? Other than that, though, it could be another pressure-inducing aspect to this team.

I'll definitely try out HP Fire on Venusaur; I originally had Sludge Bomb to deal with Poison Heal Bullet Seed Breloom, which really counters Gliscor, but HP Fire would still be super effective anyways.

-clefable. I just don't use unaware in Quickstall because unaware is for passive teams. Venusaur with Synthesis stops manaphy and thundurus, and dragonite can't hurt your team. Heracross críes vs gliscor. Clefa has no use in your team. Your team basically beats the metagame with 5 Mons , and adding an active 6th slot would be interesting. Togekiss with healbell sounds pretty good and beats the playstyle gliscor can't touch: stall.

Togekiss could potentially work. You're right on beating the metagame with 5 pokemon; Gliscor can already take down most threats single-handedly if played well, and the rest of the core + Skarmory deals with outlying threats while giving Gliscor opportunities to set up free Substitutes. I admit this team is very weak against stall (which hasn't hampered me that much since I rarely see many full stall teams), and Air Slash Togekiss could force switches even for offensive teams. I'll try it out.

Could you give me the link of your article about Quickstall? I guess it will give me ideas for my development of a playstyle that I only use, and that looks like yours. I'm not sure it's the same, that's why I need to read this to compare the structure and pick some ideas if it matches :)

Sure! I've added the link to the RMT, though it might take long to find, so I'll just add it in this post as well here. This was written back when the metagame was more than slightly different, though, and I've changed many aspects of my version of quickstall. I might write up an updated version that reflects my current playstyle, but until then, I would be happy to discuss the topic with you.


Anyways: I'll be playtesting each of these ideas in detail then updating the RMT when I'm finished. Looks like this team has a fair distance to go; in the meantime, any other suggestions would be appreciated as well ^-^
 
dont really have anything to say other than talonflame handles mega charizard y fine. with the spread i gave you you take on every mega charizard y variant 100% of the time other than modest fire blast buuut....
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 212+ SpD Talonflame in Sun: 162-192 (45.1 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
only a 1.2% chance and you can pretty easily roost stall out its fire blasts anyways.

looking back on it now however, i think you could afford to go for full spd investment on this team which will allow you to always take on mega charizard y. the 48 speed isnt really needed so i apologize for that (its kind of just something i automatically do lol). the purpose of 48 speed on spd talonflame is that it allows you to outspeed and pick off weakened adamant mega medicham, the most common variant by far, before they get the chance to bullet punch you and potentially finish you off from low hp. however your team is fairly solid against mega medicham already, with mega venu handling variants running thunder punch as coverage and slowbro handling variants with zen headbutt so you might as well invest fully in special defense.
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame in Sun: 156-184 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Back
Top