Evolving Magneton...

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Lou Cypher

I've been thinking. Why would one want to evolve Magneton? Now before you get onto me, there is a PERFECTLY valid reason to NOT evolve him. Said reason being named Metagross.

Metagross and Magneton tie in speed. Magnezone is left behind. This means that if Magnezone gets in on a non-CB'd Metagross, he's quaked before he can Magnet Rise. Magneton, on the other hand, can beat out Metagross speed-wise (Although you have to take quite some risk for it - but its beating Metagross we're talking about). Other steels will also be outspeeded by Magneton - such as Heatran (Although Magneton should only be revenge-killing him anyway). Then there is the added bonus of outrunning opposite Magnezones. If Magneton gets in the first hit, I recon it DOES beat out Magnezone. But I'm not 100% sure here as I did not yet do the calculations. It does need to keep in mind that Magneton will want to outrun any Non +Nature/Scarf Metagross. But I recon Magneton can win.

One point in Magnezones favor is a stronger Explosion though. But even so, how well will Magneton fare compared to its bigger brother? Its not like the Porygon2 - PorygonZ thing as those two are entirely different things, here its just a speed factor. Magnezone lacks speed - how much of that can Magneton patch up by losing some other stats.
 
Some people (a lot) prefer Magnezone because it has higher HP, defense, special attack, and special defense, but Magneton is perfectly viable. The speed boost is always welcomed at the cost of slightly lower special attack.
 
You have to consider that while Magneton's defenses are rather pathetic at 50/95/70, Magnezone can utilize its 13 resistances with 70/115/90. I am of the opinion that Metagross itself is not such an enormous threat as to warrant such an action. I mean, that's the only reason that you're proposing that Magneton not be evolved. Magneton does not beat out Magnezone. Assuming 0 HP and Special Defense EVs on both, Magneton does a maximum of 37% with Thunderbolt, which is a 4HKO, while Magnezone does a minimum of 48% and a maximum of 56%, a potential 2HKO and guarenteed 3HKO.
 
Did you even look at its base stats in comparison? The only thing Magneton has going over its evolution is speed, so the only point in using Magneton instead of Magnezone is if you really need a Metagross-trapping gimmick.
 
He's assuming the Metagross is either Choice Banded or has 0 speed evs. He can wall he former's three attacks and walls the latter's Earthquake with Magnet Rise.
 
You don't have to be fast to do good.

People already use 84Spd EVs on Magnezone, so they can already outspeed no Spd Metagross anyway.

If Magneton gets in the first hit, I recon it DOES beat out Magnezone.
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With what attack are you going to be killing that?
 
Was thinking HP Fire. Which doesn't seem dumb to me considering stuff like Forretress, Scizor (Who is also outsped by Magneton but not Magnezone) and Steelix, who can't quake a rising Ton.
 
Basically everything you've suggested rarely runs Speed EVs anyway. Magnezone will still beat out all of these with a few Speed EVs.
 
The fact that Scizor outspeeds Magnezone is a nonfactor, because Scizor can't inflict much damage outside of Brick Break. Magnezone also outspeeds Steelix and Forretress, and beats them even without HP Fire if it has Magnet Rise; Magneton does too, so there is no reason to use HP Fire. Also, assuming each has maxed Special Attack and no defensive investment, Magneton 2HKOes Magnezone with HP Fire, but Magnezone has about a 60% chance of OHKOing Magneton with HP Fire.
 
Magneton is absolutely horrible and nobody should seriously suggest using it over Magnezone.
 
The only thing that really threatens Magnezone is metagross, but it can still switch out against meta, but I think people are overlooking the fact some people run agiligross/ metagross with speed which means they carry 198-203 spd, so it can outspeed magnezone in fact.
 
Rubberbandman said:
The only thing that really threatens Magnezone is metagross, but it can still switch out against meta, but I think people are overlooking the fact some people run agiligross/ metagross with speed which means they carry 198-203 spd, so it can outspeed magnezone in fact.
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Metagross really doesn't like switching into Magnezone though, since it gets trapped. If it comes in on Magnet Rise, Metagross is screwed. Thunderbolt takes a huge chuck out of it, and Magnezone generally is going to be using 3 out of 4 moves meta doesn't like: Magnet Rise, Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt, or Hidden Power. If it ain't HP Ice or Grass, Meta probably isn't going to like HP.
 
Lou Cypher said:
I've been thinking. Why would one want to evolve Magneton?
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The same reason why people want to evolve Tangela (not as extreme, but Tangela is faster than Tangrowth), 10 Base speed doesn't really merit a good reason to lose 20 Points in each base stat.
 
Lou Cypher said:
Was thinking HP Fire. Which doesn't seem dumb to me considering stuff like Forretress, Scizor (Who is also outsped by Magneton but not Magnezone) and Steelix, who can't quake a rising Ton.
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HP Fire is and has always been useless on Magnezone for using Magnet Pull.

HP Fire = 70 Base x 2 (Weak) = 140 Base

TBolt = 95 Base x 1.5 (STAB) = 142.5 Base

And do consider this takes for granted that you even have a GOOD HP Fire 70 Magnezone. Most tend to be 65 ~ 68 HP Base, which is an even lower damage count. Steel Types who are 4x weak to Fire only inlcude Scizor and Forretress, and if you really need to pack HP Fire to kill those measly threats that can't do anything to you, I feel sorry for you.

I tire of the consistent stupidity regarding HP Fire and Magnezone.

The only HP Magnezone should ever consider is HP Ice, which can get a 4x damage against other Ground types that may be switching in (Garchomp and Physical Salamence w/EQ) and allows Magnezone to Boltbeam for at least neutral damage on almost every type.

HP Grass is an option if you fear Rhyperior, but despite this HP Grass 70 will not be a 1HKO on Tank Rhyperior (Impish, 252 HP + 252 Def + 6 Att) and therefore you would NEED to switch out because an Earthquake would kill you regardless if you had HP Grass or not.
 
HP grass is about 80% damage on swampert who you are almost assured to outrun. :] biggest problem is getting them down that 20%.
 
In which case you can switch...

I'd much rather prepare for monsters like Garchomp and Salamence who have the potential to sweep your team when they Swords Dance/Dragon Dance on your switch than to pack HP Grass against a Swampert and Rhyperior who usually attempt to tank.

Grass and Electric isn't the best type coverage either.

Switching out against Rhyperior does include the chance that it may Swords Dance/Rock Polish up for sweeping, but despite this chance, I'd much rather be wary against Salamence and Garchomp than the oddball Rhyperior.

Being prepared for Garchomp and Salamence and having access to Boltbeam is a better alternative to HP Grass in my opinion.
 
it's your opinion then >_>; if you have a scarf STAB Ice Beam on your team or a Starmie that can outspeed then go ahead, but if your team needs 2 ways out on a Swamp/Rhyps that can potential mess it up heavy then HP Grass is a nice little surprise on Magnezone.
 
Striker said:
In which case you can switch...

I'd much rather prepare for monsters like Garchomp and Salamence who have the potential to sweep your team when they Swords Dance/Dragon Dance on your switch than to pack HP Grass against a Swampert and Rhyperior who usually attempt to tank.
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However, Magnezone outspeeds Swampert and Rhyperior. Magnezone does not outspeed Salamence or Garchomp and is going to get OHKOed by either one unless Garchomp is mid-Outrage. Ice is still better because it hits Grassers, but that's a good reason to take Grass instead.
 
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