Everything to Know About Shit Talking In Pokemon

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solonor24

Banned deucer.
Hello everyone, a controversial topic here at the very least that i wanted to share some thoughts on- shit talking in relation to pokemon. This thread will define the term shit talking, talk about the pros and cons of it, and the difference between talking shit and actually being a complete asshole (yes, there is a distinction for some of u narrow headed people out there). I will also include some replays of myself getting into trouble for shit talking, and bring up some scenarios of what should be deemed "ok shittalking" compared to "ok you have crossed the line here."

Shit talking is defined as somebody trying to get under another persons skin. This could be through taunting, being annoying with spam, constantly insulting your opponents bad plays or teams with sets that don't seem to make any sense whatsoever, and much more. Now, this is where the boundary should be put in place. Shit talking to that extent is NOT BAD for the game in any sense, as you are keeping your insults within a game context. If i was to say hey Slowpoke92i i think your fucking shit at the same and you should retire, this SHOULD NOT be taken in any personal sense, i am speaking strictly game related. Sure, it's not nice, but in no way should somebody be punished for these actions. It would be different if I insulted somebody based off religious beliefs, race, culture, gender, or other things related to their PERSONAL LIFE. In my eyes, this should not be tolerated at all, but talking shit in relation to the game should be allowed and people who get offended by it need to grow the fuck up honestly.

A prime example of a replay where I got locked for absolutely nothing is below: (yes, mixing dat beat grow up dude)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-1011659126

Apparently calling somebody locked and bad is lockworthy nowadays? LOOOOL y'all are made of Charmin ultra soft if that actually hurts your feelings. Calling somebody trash and bad is apparently too much nowadays.

You may be asking, what is even the point of shit talking in the first place if that has the potential to happen to you? Well, the below sections are going to cover my perspective on the pros and cons of shit talking on a game-related basis.

Pros:
1. It makes the game more enjoyable for the user
Lets face it ladies and gentleman, the best games you watch on this website have drama included in them. Im sure you can think of numerous occasions where either you or your opponent talked a bunch of shit but it was drama-filled and a memorable experience. At the end of the day, drama-filled games are always the most memorable and if you think otherwise I feel your just being arrogant.

2. Shit Talking makes the game more competitive
Ah, there is nothing like betting on yourself, talking a bunch of shit, and then winning. If you talk shit about your opponent or boast your ego, you better be ready to back it up. Doing such actions forces you (the person shit talking) to really show everybody who is the real boss. It makes you concentrate, and adds more relevancy to your games as you feel you are proving something by winning such games.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-1010327845
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1016151676
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1046336430

These are 3 examples of me talking shit and then backing it up? Is it a coincidence that i performed better when I started shit talking? I think not. I could show over a million replays of this but these are the 3 that come to mind the most.

Of course, with its pros come its cons. The next section will outline the cons.
Cons:
1. Shit talking will create a bad environment for new users
No doubt with this one here. If i were to deny this being true, i would be a fucking capper. Self explanatory really, somebody sees you talk shit, they are inclined to talk shit back and the shit talking train starts. :yey:
2. Pokemon is a "children's" game and you are setting a bad example
After being in many confrontations with many mods and speaking to some of my closest buddies on this site, this is a response i get sometimes when i pose the question "why is shit-talking bad" to them. This point i completely disagree. CARTRIDGE Pokemon is a children's game, NOT PS. The average demographic for users on this site is between 15-17. Do you really think i buy that bullshit of children's game? Your telling me 15-17 year olds have never talked shit in there life or have been in a similar scenario? come on now.
3. There is no purpose for shit talking, it is immature and unjust
I can see where people who have this point of view are coming from but with me i disagree for the most part. Sure, it is immature and i agree. But come on, your telling me your not upset after you miss 5 fire blasts in a row? Your not phased at all by this level of robbery?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1046588455
A prime example of me getting completely robbed. Hey, at least my opponent handled it well unlike some of you. Its immature but sometimes its just needed, you know?

This concludes my thoughts. Feel freely to slander me, add to the discussion, and bring up some things that maybe I am missing related to this topic. Also, feel free to share some replays here of the same sort of shit happening to you, its quite funny to see.
Thank you.
 
Ad hominems are unintelligent, unnecessarily personal, and unjustified. Messing around with people who know you and your humour is different than being rude to someone because you missed 5 fire blasts in a row. Your opponent had nothing to do with this mechanic at all. This is the game we play. If you act like a dick, expect to be called out for acting like a dick. Don’t be a dick. If your opponent shows lack of empathy because you keep missing moves, they’re being a dick. Don’t imitate their dickishness.
 
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Like it or not shit talk is a part of the strategy of playing mons on PS, especially the ladder
A skillful shit talker can antagonize their opponent into making risky, desperate, or otherwise suboptimal plays
A veteran player will have built up the nerves to see past the shit-talk and play with a clear mind, perhaps even turning the tables with a little bit of shit talk of their own
A wise player who knows their own vulnerability to shit talk will mute a shit talker

Another thing to think about -- are worse/newer players more vulnerable to the mentality breaking effects of shit talk? (I think so)
If so, does that mean that the presence of shit talk adds more skill to the game? (I think maybe)

This isn't unlike playing cards with someone who is a big talker. You know, not even shit talk, just conversation. They are asking you questions about yourself, sharing jokes, etc etc until you realize they have been kicking your ass while you aren't paying attention. (A lot of times they are trying to distract you into accidentally making an illegal play so you lose automatically, you see this a lot in MTG and Yugioh.) I actually think the shit-talk in Pokémon is healthier than in other games because you can't distract your opponent into making an illegal move and forcing them to forfeit.

As for the content of shit talk I don't really approve of intensely personal attacks or the use of slurs but this is Pokémon and if you are over 18 years old you are basically ancient compared to most players. You can't really expect much maturity out of this community.
 
if this thread and the lack of trophies under your posts bits are any indication, you arent good at shit talking or pokemon. get a life so that your main source of interpersonal attention isn't having negative outbursts at scrubs on the ladder. we all have something to work on, but if you think that trash talking your opponent the turn before you win after you already won like 3 turns ago is impressive or brave (see ur mdb replay) thats actually pathetic and I feel pity for the life circumstances that could have led you to satisfy the crave for a feeling of superiority through these behaviors. it's one thing to trash talk when there is something to play for but if you leave it till after everything is settled to say shit on your opponent, u just have a personal problem
 
Myzozoa said:
if this thread and the lack of trophies under your posts bits are any indication, you arent good at shit talking or pokemon. get a life so that your main source of interpersonal attention isn't having negative outbursts at scrubs on the ladder. we all have something to work on, but if you think that trash talking your opponent the turn before you win after you already won like 3 turns ago is impressive or brave (see ur mdb replay) thats actually pathetic and I feel pity for the life circumstances that could have led you to satisfy the crave for a feeling of superiority through these behaviors. it's one thing to trash talk when there is something to play for but if you leave it till after everything is settled to say shit on your opponent, u just have a personal problem
Click to expand...
lol ok bet champ challenge me right now
 
Myzozoa said:
if this thread and the lack of trophies under your posts bits are any indication, you arent good at shit talking or pokemon. get a life so that your main source of interpersonal attention isn't having negative outbursts at scrubs on the ladder. we all have something to work on, but if you think that trash talking your opponent the turn before you win after you already won like 3 turns ago is impressive or brave (see ur mdb replay) thats actually pathetic and I feel pity for the life circumstances that could have led you to satisfy the crave for a feeling of superiority through these behaviors. it's one thing to trash talk when there is something to play for but if you leave it till after everything is settled to say shit on your opponent, u just have a personal problem
Click to expand...
this is some really powerful shit talk
 
This topic is, obviously, very near & dear to my heart, and I'm genuinely happy that someone addressed it, let alone that that "someone was you". I think you make quite a bit of good points, and I'm glad you added a con section as a quasi-antithesis (and then addressed the points as such, showing why they are wrong).

As a very experienced shit talker, but not a great player, I have some views on this.
  • The use of trash talking in sport has a long and storied history. In football, some of the greatest players of all time were also the best shit-talkers. I write this after the 49ers have qualified for the Super Bowl. Anybody with even a small knowledge of football knows how Richard Sherman is one of the greatest shittalkers of all time, and, not coincidentally, one of the greatest players of all time. There is an obvious correlation. Many other examples can be found.
  • As a player who only ever got good in the tier of LC, which requires a lot of luck rather than skill, I was never as good of a player as you. By being able to trashtalk during important victories, my confidence grew and I was able to make more risky, and as such better, reads. The confidence boost is amazing.
  • I have gotten locked so many times that you can see that, "I COULD BE BANNED" next to my name. Out of all of my locks, the one that stands out to me is when I was shittalking in a battle against my friend, and A THIRD PARTY CAME IN and disliked what I was saying. Got locked. Be better, mods.
  • I understand the need to make sure that people don't feel personally harassed, abused, etc. Your rules are very solid on what should be acceptable and what should be out-of-bounds, although I'd add one more. Don't take it into PM's.This may be somewhat controversial, but this crosses the line into harassment. By seeking someone out after a battle, you've escalated the situation. Gloat all you want in battle, but be cool after.
    • I have broken this rule several times, and even brought people in to private rooms and banned them. I also am permalocked for the 3rd time. I'm not a great example, but who amongst us hasn't broken these rules from time to time. I digress...
I want you to know right now, as I'm sure you already do, that you'll catch some flak for this. That's OK, and, to a point, validates you. Any opinion, no matter how mainstream it is, will attract haters for, in part, the same reason that trash talking is fun. We, as humans, like to win, and, in turn, point out fallacies and holes in other people's beliefs. In this age of PC culture, a pro-trashtalking stance is harder than ever to sell. Many of the "OGs" aren't here anymore because their views conflict with others, to be vague. That's why I appreciate you more than ever standing up for this tradition. It deserves to stay, as it provides a competitive advantage. Follow the rules, and you shouldn't be punished.
 
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As much as I agree that you do gain the edge mentally by shit talking/making fun or whatever, the experience of others should generally triumph especially when one of the points you make is "It makes the game more enjoyable for the user"

Sure man, you feel good after saying oh ur trash blah blah blah, but how does that make the other person feel?
If the answer is you don't care, in my opinion that's a bit of an issue but doesn't really hold much weight because you aren't obligated to.

edit cuz posted by accident too early.

Shit talking just only leads to more shit talking, creates more stupid beefs in rooms and battles, leading to more punishments once people cross a line or don't respect the site auth/room auth. The environment crumbles. If you want to shit talk, just do it out loud in your own space. I do it all the time man, "what the fuck man I won that game if I hit and he played like shit", but typing it out and sending it is just rude and isn't necessary. It doesn't lead to anything.

As much as I like gaining the edge on people in as many ways as possible, shit talking isn't and will never be something I personally do in pursue of that. The one thing I can maybe add is asking the staff to give a clear cut line as to what is allowed and what isn't as far as shit talking. It would be hella arbitrary and potentially just be a big slippery slope, but if you want to do your stupid haha ur bad kinda thing then you could request for that.


solonor24 said:
These are 3 examples of me talking shit and then backing it up? Is it a coincidence that i performed better when I started shit talking? I think not. I could show over a million replays of this but these are the 3 that come to mind the most.
Click to expand...

this also has no weight lol, you could just play better w/o having to shit on people and the same result would happen. And how do you know you wouldn't have done better if you didn't say anything at all? this has no evidence or basis to back it up at all. it basically boils down to: I did it and won, but because I did this I won more
 
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Myzozoa said:
if this thread and the lack of trophies under your posts bits are any indication, you arent good at shit talking or pokemon. get a life so that your main source of interpersonal attention isn't having negative outbursts at scrubs on the ladder. we all have something to work on, but if you think that trash talking your opponent the turn before you win after you already won like 3 turns ago is impressive or brave (see ur mdb replay) thats actually pathetic and I feel pity for the life circumstances that could have led you to satisfy the crave for a feeling of superiority through these behaviors. it's one thing to trash talk when there is something to play for but if you leave it till after everything is settled to say shit on your opponent, u just have a personal problem
Click to expand...

my primal craving to viciously prey on those weaker than me is not a "personal problem". if you don't have any urge whatsoever to assert your alpha tendencies, you, my friend is what we like to call a beta cuck. when the world collapses we will see who is left LOL. alpha males who take what they want, like me, or little wussies who sit there asking for somebody to stop calling them a "offensive name", like you. how dare you publically come out and INSULT my intelligence as somebody who gets off to calling little kids on the ladder a "little clicking bitch". think before you post next time, bud, if you mess with the bull, you get the horns. thank you, fuck you, bye.
 
solonor24 said:
Hello everyone, a controversial topic here at the very least that i wanted to share some thoughts on- shit talking in relation to pokemon. This thread will define the term shit talking, talk about the pros and cons of it, and the difference between talking shit and actually being a complete asshole (yes, there is a distinction for some of u narrow headed people out there). I will also include some replays of myself getting into trouble for shit talking, and bring up some scenarios of what should be deemed "ok shittalking" compared to "ok you have crossed the line here."

Shit talking is defined as somebody trying to get under another persons skin. This could be through taunting, being annoying with spam, constantly insulting your opponents bad plays or teams with sets that don't seem to make any sense whatsoever, and much more. Now, this is where the boundary should be put in place. Shit talking to that extent is NOT BAD for the game in any sense, as you are keeping your insults within a game context. If i was to say hey Slowpoke92i i think your fucking shit at the same and you should retire, this SHOULD NOT be taken in any personal sense, i am speaking strictly game related. Sure, it's not nice, but in no way should somebody be punished for these actions. It would be different if I insulted somebody based off religious beliefs, race, culture, gender, or other things related to their PERSONAL LIFE. In my eyes, this should not be tolerated at all, but talking shit in relation to the game should be allowed and people who get offended by it need to grow the fuck up honestly.

A prime example of a replay where I got locked for absolutely nothing is below: (yes, mixing dat beat grow up dude)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-1011659126

Apparently calling somebody locked and bad is lockworthy nowadays? LOOOOL y'all are made of Charmin ultra soft if that actually hurts your feelings. Calling somebody trash and bad is apparently too much nowadays.

You may be asking, what is even the point of shit talking in the first place if that has the potential to happen to you? Well, the below sections are going to cover my perspective on the pros and cons of shit talking on a game-related basis.

Pros:
1. It makes the game more enjoyable for the user
Lets face it ladies and gentleman, the best games you watch on this website have drama included in them. Im sure you can think of numerous occasions where either you or your opponent talked a bunch of shit but it was drama-filled and a memorable experience. At the end of the day, drama-filled games are always the most memorable and if you think otherwise I feel your just being arrogant.

2. Shit Talking makes the game more competitive
Ah, there is nothing like betting on yourself, talking a bunch of shit, and then winning. If you talk shit about your opponent or boast your ego, you better be ready to back it up. Doing such actions forces you (the person shit talking) to really show everybody who is the real boss. It makes you concentrate, and adds more relevancy to your games as you feel you are proving something by winning such games.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-1010327845
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1016151676
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1046336430

These are 3 examples of me talking shit and then backing it up? Is it a coincidence that i performed better when I started shit talking? I think not. I could show over a million replays of this but these are the 3 that come to mind the most.

Of course, with its pros come its cons. The next section will outline the cons.
Cons:
1. Shit talking will create a bad environment for new users
No doubt with this one here. If i were to deny this being true, i would be a fucking capper. Self explanatory really, somebody sees you talk shit, they are inclined to talk shit back and the shit talking train starts. :yey:
2. Pokemon is a "children's" game and you are setting a bad example
After being in many confrontations with many mods and speaking to some of my closest buddies on this site, this is a response i get sometimes when i pose the question "why is shit-talking bad" to them. This point i completely disagree. CARTRIDGE Pokemon is a children's game, NOT PS. The average demographic for users on this site is between 15-17. Do you really think i buy that bullshit of children's game? Your telling me 15-17 year olds have never talked shit in there life or have been in a similar scenario? come on now.
3. There is no purpose for shit talking, it is immature and unjust
I can see where people who have this point of view are coming from but with me i disagree for the most part. Sure, it is immature and i agree. But come on, your telling me your not upset after you miss 5 fire blasts in a row? Your not phased at all by this level of robbery?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1046588455
A prime example of me getting completely robbed. Hey, at least my opponent handled it well unlike some of you. Its immature but sometimes its just needed, you know?

This concludes my thoughts. Feel freely to slander me, add to the discussion, and bring up some things that maybe I am missing related to this topic. Also, feel free to share some replays here of the same sort of shit happening to you, its quite funny to see.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

I have done my fair share of shittalking throughout my presence on this site, mostly directing my venom towards my good friends. However there have been many occasions in which i verbally erupted on people, either because i couldn't understand what they were doing or because they were getting bailed out by low ladder lord and savior rng. My thing is, since shitalking isn't based on solid arguments (if it is, then we are talking about offensive criticism, in which case grow up and take it) i never understood why it is supposed to have any sort of impact on the receiving party. Literally show me any person that got shittalked and afterwards was like ''yeah, they right i'm hot garbage. I'm out''. Nobody's self-esteem is getting hurt because a random dude had a bad day and got it out on them. If you are offended by someone's irrelevant and biased opinion, you need to work on your self-worth because under no circumstance you should care. NOT TO MENTION IT IS BASED ON A FUCKIN CHILDREN GAME WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU.
Lastly i would like to point out something i disagree on with fellow solonor. Being on this site for the mere reason of playing the game and beating whoever i have on the opposite of the screen, i find it much better to be shittalked for my race, gender, sexual preference, w/e. And that is cause that is a criticism that is based on stuff i have 0 control over, holds 0 intel, 0 reasoning and hence 0 meaning. On the other hand, if you get shitalked for your ability to play the game, regardless of the levels of rudeness involved, there might be some truth/validity to it.
Stop being pretentiously thin-skinned, work on your own insecurities that shitalking helps surface and free my dude solonor(in case he is still locked).
SCHEFF CLAUSE AF
Also like my post and send me presents
 
1579576174552.png
 
me and my friends (in IRL xd!) shittalk a shit ton and i think we take it pretty far. last week, one of my friends said to my other, adopted friend "shut up man you're adopted, literally nobody wanted you" and adopted friend responded by poking fun at original's friend's girlfriend who'd just broken up with him last week after a year long relationship - we're very far from thin skinned. it kinda goes around and around and no topic is really off limits.

as such i tend to align with CBU in that if online shittalking actually bothers you, something's already gone wrong and your time would be better spent improving your self esteem and making yourself less susceptible to the words of someone who doesn't and probably will never know you. in other words, pull a lavos. "The foulest insults you hurl with intent to wound will calmly settle at the earth before my feet, and the venom you spit will bring all the pain of a warm summer breeze. You are less than anything you can conceive, while I carry on, brimming with joy distilled from detachment." <- this is the right attitude to have towards people that shittalk you.

however, i don't agree with the conclusion that we should just allow shittalking wholesale. not because i think there's a substantive risk that something said online could lead to harmful actions in real life - not that this doesn't exist, yes, things you say on the internet can be damaging, but as stated before, that problem has roots that go far beyond www dot pokemonshowdown dot com and efforts to police it are laughable - but because i think you're missing the point of why we're on here on the first place.

competitive mons is something we play for enjoyment. i don't think shittalking is particularly damaging or anything but that doesn't mean i enjoy it, and it's not unreasonable to say that having some 7 idiots in your battle shittalking each other and you while user SOLONOR WON'T CLICK A FUCKING MOVE is not enjoyable. we're on the site to have fun and if you think shittalking is fun, fine. but to impose that on someone that doesn't is assholery.
the rules of PS promote civil discussion, tolerate less civil discussion, and disallow harassment. whether you think those arbitrary or not, since you are acting out of line of them, it's your responsibility to find people that tolerate shittalking (shittalking and harassment are two different things but the line is very thin), and that doesn't mean shittalking everyone and seeing who doesn't mind it. and if you get punished for acting outside the rules, really, who are you supposed to be mad at?

e: why didn't you post this in firebot lol then you could've actually started a shittalking chain
 
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I mean... this game is an unofficial attempt at making a children's game who had a PEGI 3 watermark until 2 gens ago somewhat competitive. Unless you are an actual kid or a teenager, you should know that talking shit online is not good behavior. Not only that, but the moment you start playing on showdown you abide by the rules, https://pokemonshowdown.com/rules

What's the first one?
Main rules
  1. Be nice to people. Respect people. Don't be rude or mean to people.
Click to expand...

Do you really need to start mindstorming about this? You can't really understand why you shouldn't be rude to others? If that's the case you are, no offense, an imbecile, since you can't understand such a simple rule and start squabbling with pitiful arguments that allow you to be a dickhead to others. Simplicity is an art, don't be rude to people because it's a bad thing. Moral relativism is a philosophical matter, but not here on a stupid pokemon simulator.

Having some friendly banter (even a lively one) with your friends is allowed, which is completely different from being mean to strangers.
 
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