(if you were tagged and wondering why, scroll down to "Closing Words" if you don't want to read the rmt)
Teambuilding Process
Teambuilding Process
This team was built around Moltres. On paper, Moltres has incredible defensive utility: it has excellent natural bulk, Fire-type + Ground-immunity which makes it one of the best defensive answers to Heatran in the metagame (also immune to Lava Plume burn), great versus fighters like Breloom, Infernape, and Lucario, and its ability Pressure can be excellent in longer games. A superb defensive check to Breloon and Heatran, two of the most terrifying offensive threats in DPP, is unbelievably desirable. The biggest issue with Moltres is quite obvious: its Stealth Rock weakness is just too much. In addition, it is so difficult to consistently keep hazards off the field in DPP due to the limited number of viable spinners and the strength of the Ghost-types in the tier like Rotom (RestTalk is a fantastic spinblocker) and Gengar.
To make Moltres as effective as possible, I devised a dual spinner core that was engineered to keep hazards off as well as possible and complement each other well. Donphan was my first idea as a spinner alongside Moltres because it's an excellent Tyranitar switchin. One of the big issues with depending on Forretress to keep hazards off alone is that it typically struggles tremendously at spinning against RestTalk Rotom. Forretress has some nice traits nonetheless, being able to lay Spikes on the field and being able to threaten Gengar with Payback on the switch. Forretress also has some decent defensive utility; Swampert can definitely pressure it but a healthy Forretress can afford to spin against it or lay down Spikes. The key to this double spin core functioning was a new, very bizarre Donphan set I created. Upon looking more closely at Donphan's moveset, I found that it learned Odor Sleuth, which can be used to spin against Ghost-types. As a solo spinner, Donphan has issues with status (Toxic Spikes and Burn) since even if it spins off Toxic Spikes, it doesn't have Natural Cure or the proper typing to deal with poison. The slower pace of this team enables this Donphan to solve both those issues with Odor Sleuth and Rest, which should enable it to wall most RestTalk (and even SubWisp) Rotoms and spin vs them quite nicely. Overall, while Forretress can spin decently against everything except defensive Rotom, Donphan excels the most at spinning against defensive Rotom, which makes this pair of double spinners super nice for supporting Moltres and keeping Stealth Rock off the field.
Given the defensive nature of this team, utilizing two of the best pieces on defense in WishTect Jirachi and Clefable solved several weaknesses this team had. Impish WishTect Jirachi is a nice check for the Dragon Dance sweepers and it's kind of a nice check-all for a lot of physical attackers that Moltres doesn't cover. The Moltres + Jirachi core is excellent for really locking down the Breloom matchup. Clefable helps against strong special attackers, maintains its Stealth Rock against pretty much all spinners, and it also helps against Zapdos and more offensively-oriented variants of Rotom. In addition, Clefable functions as a Will-O-Wisp absorber for RestTalk Rotom, who doesn't let Moltres switch in safely whatsoever. After building the 6 already, I noticed a big weakness to Trick, so I took some Sword/Shield technology and used Trick + Sticky Barb Clefable to compensate for that, and it worked wonderfully.
This team's ability to function really depends on executing the gameplan to prevent hazards from staying on the field for too long, so I wasn't afraid to use another Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon. Zapdos finished off this team both aesthetically and functionally. Zapdos is a notorious offense-slayer and it provides even more defensive utility to finish the team off. Having double pressure is really nice to execute the gameplan of wearing the opponent out long-term. In addition, Zapdos uses Roar to rack up Spikes damage with Forretress and put a stop to dangerous Calm Mind and DD sweepers. I use a mixed bulk SpD spread to execute this gameplan well. SpD Zapdos also takes a lot of the burden & pressure off Clefable and gives you a lot of flexibility in the game. And it serves as an excellent soft check to mixed dragons like Dragonite and Flygon.
A Closer Look
endless sky (Moltres) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 20 SpD / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hidden Power [Ground]
The star of the show, and my preferred moveset & EV spread for Moltres. I really like the tremendous physical bulk in emergency cases and to be as good against Breloom and Lucario as possible. Flamethrower is consistent, accurate, and has sufficient PP compared to Fire Blast, which it definitely doesn't need here. Will-O-Wisp is essential to cripple Pokemon like Swampert, Metagross, Tyranitar, and Flygon. Hidden Power Ground, imo, is mandatory to actually KO and even lure Heatran. It synergizes well with Will-O-Wisp because Heatran can be a common wisp absorber, so Moltres can consistently get burns against offensive teams. You can adjust the speed a bit if you'd like to whatever your preference is, but don't take too much out of Defense to do so. Moltres makes for a great lead actually, being able to 2HKO Azelf with Flamethrower, scaring off Metagross, Jirachi, and Heatran, and potentially being able to burn something right off the bat.
Other Options
• Additional Special Defense can be interesting to slightly improve the matchup against Heatran (but honestly not by anything too significant) but also to survive a Timid Specs Latias Draco Meteor from full: 252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 64 SpD Moltres: 324-382 (84.5 - 99.7%). I honestly didn't think this was that worth it because it requires sacrificing phys def, and most specs Latias these days run Modest.
• Moves like Substitute, Protect, Roar, Toxic, Safeguard, and U-turn could be interesting to run on Moltres, but I just don't see them consistently fitting well on a team like this.
kallavan (Donphan) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def / 20 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Magnitude
- Rapid Spin
- Odor Sleuth
This Donphan set is the other star of the show on this team. As mentioned before, this set enables it to spin consistently against most defensive variants of Rotom. Rest gives it much-needed longevity and an answer to status. Magnitude is a very bizarre choice, but I think it fits the pace of the team very nicely. Since it has 48 PP and the potential for a very powerful hit, people have to give it respect in crucial turns, and it does way more damage and can pressure Clefable much harder over a longer game. Rapid Spin and Odor Sleuth are self-explanatory. One thing to notice is the monstrous number of PP this set boasts [(16 x 3) + 48 + 64 + 64 = 224]. I have legitimately solod 3 or 4 Pokemon with Donphan just by sitting there and fishing with Magnitude because certain combinations of physical offense have genuine trouble breaking it.
☆whatever account: stupid elephant
☆whatever account: im not losing ot
☆whatever account: to*
☆whatever account: magnitude
☆whatever account: donpha
whatever account forfeited.
Excal won the battle!
Other Options
• The only other option here honestly is to use Earthquake instead of Magnitude. It's more conventional and it's better in games where you won't have PP issues. However, I genuinely consider Magnitude to be the more consistent option here; surprisingly enough, it makes a tremendous difference in more drawn-out games.
• The EVs can be played around with a bit, maybe investing a bit more into SpD, but I wouldn't recommend changing them too much unless you happen to find a really nice benchmark. Donphan wants the small Attack investment as well as a ton of Defense.
karaka (Forretress) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Protect
- Rapid Spin
- Payback
As explained before as well, Forretress is the second spinner that should in theory spin on most if not everything Donphan can't. While Donphan excels against Rotom, Forretress can generally spin consistently enough against Gengar teams. Spikes are essential for longer games and do wonderfully to wear down Swampert, Heatran, Tyranitar, and even Magnezone. Protect is mandatory on Forretress to give it passive recovery and a lot more longevity. It's also really nice to use it with Wish support in the back, which this team has. Payback is required here to make it slightly less passive and pressure Ghost-types.
Other Options
• There are no other options here. Forretress, especially on this team, is not a very versatile Pokemon and any change here will worsen the effectiveness of the team.
lo po bia ren (Clefable) @ Sticky Barb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Trick
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
I already went over pretty much all of Clefable's role in the teambuilding process, so I'll try not to reiterate too much here, as this choice is a bit more intuitive. Clefable makes for the perfect Stealth Rock user on this team, being able to keep rocks up against all the common spinners. Trick is used in conjunction with Sticky Barb mainly to function as a Trick absorber against the likes of Uxie, Rotom, and Latias, but it also can cripple Breloom, Swampert, Heatran, and Jirachi pretty well.
Other Options
• You can change around the EVs a bit to whatever you desire, as long as it remains specially defensive. More phys def could be useful against Flygon, DDTar (tricking a Sticky Barb onto it is pretty nifty), and Jirachi.
• Knock Off was primarily the move of choice over Trick, so if you don't really care about absorbing Trick then you could definitely try it out and it will work decently enough. It's a bit more reliable against Swampert.
mazino (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
- Protect
Wish support is essential to enhance the already significant longevity of this team even further. Body Slam and Iron Head are essential moves for Jirachi that are irreplaceable on this team, required to check/soft check a slew of dangerous setup sweepers. Honestly, this is a self-explanatory set on a team like this and I don't have anything additional to say that wasn't mentioned in the teambuilding process.
Other Options
• It's worth mentioning that this team was built in the Dugtrio metagame, and a shift from this metagame has nerfed WishTect Jirachi quite a bit (mainly because of Heatran). That said, because of how defensively sound this is against Heatran, this set will function just fine. Magnezone is annoying though, so changing one of Iron Head/Protect to U-turn is worth the consideration to bypass being trapped.
• EVs can be played around with for sure, as long as Jirachi retains a lot of physical bulk. It's worth considering a Speed creep to 244 to outpace DDtar.
maschenny (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost
- Roar
The final member of the team. Thunderbolt is the preferred Electric-type STAB move here, as you don't really need (or even want to in some cases) spread paralysis everywhere. The extra power is also quite nice. Hidden Power Ice is necessary to make sure Dragon-types don't get out of hand -- can't really get much better than BoltBeam coverage anyway. Roar is perfect to phaze dangerous setup sweepers and rack up Spikes damage.
Other Options
• Once again, the EVs here can be fine-tuned to your liking. I preferred Specially Defensive because Moltres covers the physical side really well, and Specially Defensive Zapdos has great benefits against strong Water-types and Calm Mind sweepers. The physical bulk can be moved entirely to SpD (I think BKC did this), but I like the small investment to improve rolls vs Gyarados and physical Swampert.
• Zapdos can honestly use a slew of different moves here, like Substitute, Heat Wave, Hidden Power Grass, Toxic, and even Agility (all have genuine merit), but Roar was my preference. Would be interested to see other Zapdos movesets experimented with here.
Threatlist
Swampert is honestly really annoying, especially if it happens to have Refresh. Moltres doesn't ever really die in one hit to Swampert, even if it's Choice Band, so the gameplan generally is to burn it and wear it down over time. I also sometimes really needed to make sure I could use my Clefable to Trick it a barb if possible. Offensive waters on paper seem to be really annoying because of the lack of a water resist but honestly the only one that is seriously a huge threat is Swampert. Zapdos can legit stall Swampert out if absolutely necessary, which is pretty crazy lol.
Tyranitar can be really scary to face. Definitely something you really need to burn and thankfully you have Donphan. If Tyranitar is Ice Beam (which can threaten Donphan), then very high odds it lacks Stone Edge and Moltres can actually do quite decently against it. That said, Dragon Dance Tyranitar is a huge pain and it can run through this team with the proper support and if it manages to beat Jirachi. McMeghan used a relic set in CB Aqua Tail against me which was a huge threat given my lack of water resists, but this set is really uncommon. Donphan + Jirachi are typically enough to keep CBtar at bay and it can have issues switching in/get crippled by Spikes and Roar.
Magnezone can trap Jirachi and Forretress and it seems really tough to punish it. It's definitely a huge threat without set changes. I like to hopefully have it try to trap Jirachi first, then trade para with it, and then get up Spikes with Forretress. Still though, very annoying to face.
Calm Mind Clefable can be a pain in the ass, but especially without Dugtrio in the metagame now, this matchup has improved quite a lot. Zapdos can do well to stall it out and Roar it out but sometimes this can be a bit of a dangerous game. I remember in aim's laddering video, he managed to successfully stall this set out by using Moltres and Zapdos Pressure combined, which was pretty neat.
Dragon Dance sweepers are always threatening to builds like this without a Choice Scarfer/great speed control. While these two are not as threatening as DDTar imo, they can still be dangerous if played properly. There's a bit more counterplay and resistance to these two though but I had to mention them anyway.
Replays/Videos
Excal vs McMeghan (Smogon Classic VI playoffs)
BKC Road to #1 in Gens 1-5 Part 22
BKC Road to #1 in Gens 1-5 Part 23
BKC Road to #1 in Gens 1-5 Part 24
BKC Road to #1 in Gens 1-5 Part 25
pokeaimMD: Moltres, DPP OU's Hidden Gem!
Closing Words
Excal vs McMeghan (Smogon Classic VI playoffs)
BKC Road to #1 in Gens 1-5 Part 22
BKC Road to #1 in Gens 1-5 Part 23
BKC Road to #1 in Gens 1-5 Part 24
BKC Road to #1 in Gens 1-5 Part 25
pokeaimMD: Moltres, DPP OU's Hidden Gem!
Closing Words
While this was built during the Dugtrio metagame, I think it may be even a bit stronger nowadays, as Heatran and Breloom have become even more threatening and some of the tougher matchups like Calm Mind Clefable have become much more manageable. This team thrived quite a bit on its surprise factor and completely catching the opponent off guard, but unfortunately this team can be pretty much predicted right from turn 1 these days. I think even if you know what's coming, however, the team is still really good and can honestly outplay almost anything. Without hazards up, Moltres + Zapdos + Jirachi alone is insanely difficult to break. I drew some inspiration from Tamahome who made a team with a very unique structure and did some incredibly inspiring stuff ingame, which was a huge influence on the concept.
---
Damn I've posted way too much on this website lmao. I'm definitely not doing another milestone post like this one again, and it'll probably be a super long time until I reach 2,000 posts since my days of posting a ton and contributing have been winding down for a really long time. One of my first posts ever was actually an RMT of a bizarre Hitmontop stall that honestly has a slightly similar idea to this one which is playing longer games and keeping hazards off even without a lot of raw breaking power (this one's way better though lol). My motivation comes and goes for this game quite a lot. While I'd like to wind down and stop playing because irl has been catching up to me with a full-time job and several other commitments, I feel like I haven't even reached my peak as a player and my desire to compete hasn't fully extinguished. Regardless of all that though, what has kept me around 100% over everything is the people who I've gotten to know and interact with on pretty much a daily basis.
Not sure if I want to call these "shoutouts", but I did want to tag a bunch of people who've given me a positive experience on this website and to thank them that way. If I ever look back on this post in the very distant future it'll be really cool to see all these names of people who've made this huge time sink and niche hobby worth it in the end. Gonna kinda do it in a chronological way too cause it's cool to look back on it like this.
The Sisterhood (where it all started): shockproof Sakito Pkel SweeTforU Seven Thunders Vay eden Altina Sinkyr Hyogafodex DeepBlueC Emeral Stone_Cold Vulpix03 McMeghan
DPP & Old Gens friends: BKC Tamahome crayon pop We Three Kings august mael Chirac hellpowna Marshall.Law SFG Christos21 snøfall innisfree Sceptross FriendOfMrGolem120 kjdaas Rage vapicuno C05ta Diophantine Prinz Fakes
Smoghorses: deetah maroon Jordy nui Blitz The Dutch Plumberjack Finchinator (didn't know where to put u sry bro, least it's better than making a "Driftveil Gold Diggers" section LOL)
: d0nut FMG bruno suapah Insult Amaranth Raiza Relous Persephone stax Serene Grace blarghlfarghl false snaga Teclis DaWoblefet ABR (lol)
methlab
: Hayburner (just posted a...) KingKdot Sjneider Luthier Bushtush Jytcampbell talah Mannat Tace ㋛ Laurel
Rattlers @Lindworms @Nagas @Cobras (I hope these aren't actual smogon users lol): TonyFlygon TDK lax Ajna Roseybear Fear Samqian bugzinator Meri Berry Hockey1 and last but not least Kebab mlml
GOD MAMI BIGS
: Eternal Spirit ima Zokuru ziloXX ElectricityCat devin Tiba Adaam Boat (lmao this would be so much longer but there's a lot of overlap, what a fun season tho)
DPP & Old Gens friends: BKC Tamahome crayon pop We Three Kings august mael Chirac hellpowna Marshall.Law SFG Christos21 snøfall innisfree Sceptross FriendOfMrGolem120 kjdaas Rage vapicuno C05ta Diophantine Prinz Fakes
Smoghorses: deetah maroon Jordy nui Blitz The Dutch Plumberjack Finchinator (didn't know where to put u sry bro, least it's better than making a "Driftveil Gold Diggers" section LOL)
methlab
Rattlers @Lindworms @Nagas @Cobras (I hope these aren't actual smogon users lol): TonyFlygon TDK lax Ajna Roseybear Fear Samqian bugzinator Meri Berry Hockey1 and last but not least Kebab mlml
GOD MAMI BIGS
If you made it up to this point, thank you for reading my rmt. I'm not sure if I'll make another again in the future, but this was fun to write. I hope y'all found it interesting and worthwhile :)
