Empoleon Sweep...

cim

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
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Death Letter (Honchkrow) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Drill Peck
---

I'm not sure whether or not to lead this or Heatran, but Honchkrow is fucking awesome and prevents Sleep. Sucker Punch and Pursuit are to take out Scarf Gengar and shit which fuck Empoleon up. Superpower and Drill Peck give Honchkrow awesome coverage. The 3 STAB SE moves against Celebi make it an awesome counter by the way.

Red Rain (Heatran) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
---

RaikouLover's Baitran, a flawless way to get Blissey or Vaporeon out of the picture as they both fuck up Empoleon. Flamethrower and Earth Power are in case the switch in isn't one of those two, I guess. Life Orb guarantees KOs, and that's part of why SR is there, to hold the surprise.

Little Bird (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/36 Spd/220 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Discharge
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Heat Wave
- Roost
---

A non-Heatran response to Scizor and Sky Shaymin since my Heatran is a lure. Pretty solid indeed. Discharge means it's not just a counter utility.

Astro (Porygon2) @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 232 HP/236 Def/40 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic
---

Standard Pory2, since it's the only one-pokemon response to Salamence Gyarados and Heatran, haha. Toxic for Blissey so that Empoleon can beat it.

Blue Orchid (Kingdra) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 180 HP/252 Atk/76 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Substitute
---

Double Dance's bulky EVs without that pesky Rain Dance. I use Kingdra to set up on waters so Rain Dance was never really used, plus I don't care if he dies after the first Outrage usually so I switched to Sub in Slot 4. Pretty sexy sweeper and a good switch into a Water.

Conquest (Empoleon) (M) @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 28 HP/12 Def/216 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Agility
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Substitute
---

Standard Happy Feet.
 
Hey Chris, I love the team idea. Here are a few things to help you out!

Heatran... my heatran lure is an OUTSTANDING way to clear out Blisseys / Vaporeon's for Empoleon

Heatran @ Life Orb
Nature: Hasty
*Flamethrower / Fire Blast
*Earth Power
*Stealth Rocks (use this on the switch, they stay in and think you are scarfed)
*Explosion

Yeah, guarenteed to kill one. You may need better Scizor check after that, so I recommend Zapdos. Gives you a Scizor check and a back-up plan for bitchy Vaporeon's.

Honestly, I hate duggy, you really don't need it. And it just asks for Salamence to set up on you. Just use a good lure and your straight.

Other things to consider: Empoleon beats Blissey if two layers of toxic spikes are on the field... You have to test it but I've done it before. Its a specific sequence like Sub (Bliss comes in!) Agility, Sub, Surf, (Petaya should activate here if its SToss) Surf. something to think about as a last resort!
 
Well, yeah, normal Sub Leftovers Emp can beat Bliss with TSpikes out though, haha.

Dugtrio I like for compensating for my own poor play, but yeah it's mence bait.

That Heatran bait looks absolutely juicy and I wanna incorporate it right now.

Tenatively the team is looking like baitran / honchkrow / standard zap / (nido or tenta) / (salamence counter like cress or something) / empoleon, that's what I'm going to test anyway. Honchkrow is pretty non-negotiable, or else Scarf Gengar beats me.

OP updated.
 
i also use a heatran like that and sometimes find flamethrower to weak, if your keeping Stealth Rock on it id put fire blast > flamethower but thats up to you
 
One thing with the Heatran. Life Orb may give away the game a bit. To be honest If i switch blissey into Heatran and I see Life Orb Damage I'm surely going to protect next turn to see what happens. If you predict this you could also end up eating a Thunder Wave. It's a bit of a tricky situatio either ways. It may then be worth considering something silly like Expert Belt or something like that to fake the Scarf although I must admit I havent done calculations of an Unboosted Explosion on a Blissey.

I would go with Tentacruel. As Obi pointed out in his Stall Team (Yes I am using it as an example) Tentacruel has better defensive typing due to his resistances and weaknesses coming in pair and has the additional help of being able to Rapid Spin against Stall Teams and being able to Knock Off Items (as it is now legal with Platinum) Personally I'd still go with Porygon 2 in the last spot. If you blow up on Blissey and that leaves you open to Gyarados after a DD Pory 2 will deal with it. If you blow up on the Gyarados you can still hit Blissey with Toxic Late Game (although admittedly Toxic Spikes will also do this for you) I guess Specs Mence may give you some issues if that is the case, less so than with Cresselia or CM Cress, but I don't know if I can really make that descision for you. I guess teating will tell you which is most needed. Good Luck with your team!
 
If you are using Heatran to beat bulky waters I would go as far as to say that you really don't need or want Grass Knot on Empoleon. In this case I believe that Ice Beam will do a better job and deal with any dragons that think they can come in.

I would also say that Kingdra is not helping your team much in anyway, so I would go with a Choice'r to either revenge kill or to deal some serious damage if you don't choose scarf.
 
Baitran is fantastic... works about 95% from experience, I've been using the set for months. Stealth Rock really is the key, since when Heatran comes out you lay your rocks, thus concealing the Life Orb recoil. That way you also scout what your counters are. If you see something like Blissey or Vaporeon come out, you can either blow up then (somewhat risky, but not too much), or just wait until you can get Heatran in again and just blow up on the switch because at that point they think you are choice scarfed with Stealth Rock, which is not uncommon as a set.

Anyway Chris, the team looks pretty good. I'm dying to try that Honchcrow! Don't lead with Heatran ever! It specifically is a bait. I need to go find the Heatran revamp and take another look at it since I think the author of it changed it.
 
I don't understand how that Baitran works so well. Once they see you have life orb and not scarf or specs surely they will know it is packing explosion.?
 
Guys lemme put this in bold because you guys didn't catch it when Raikou, I, or Raikou again said it.

The move "Stealth Rock" does not activate Life Orb, concealing the recoil.

I don't really need Toxic Spikes that much, and Tentacruel / Empoleon are really similar so I dunno about having them both on a team...

Will-o-wisp Dusknoir can be a bitch sometimes.
 
I'm sorry but if I saw Stealth Rock on a Heatran, my first thought would definately not be that it is scarfed. A lot of Pokemon use Stealth Rock and Explosion, Azelf, Metagross etc... Why should Heatran be any different, it probably fuctions reasonably well as a suicide pokemon. I think my argument still stands, but if it works for you through testing then whatever.

As for Dusknoir, Lum Berry on Kingdra? With Sub you can probably get a couple of Dragon Dances in before they realise. If you are lucky with its moveset you can possibly get it in free, Sub, Dragon Dance a couple of times, one more time with the Lum and then sweep awway. Obviously prediction will be key there, but I'm sure you're up for that. In fact if played right you could actually use Lum Berry to set up a sweep on Dusknoir.

EDIT: Alright you've got me if you play it right it will work ;) Still try Kingdra
 
You don't have to blow up Heatran on the first appearance. Sometimes I Stealth Rock then retreat, which usually lures the opponent into false security. Then, simply explode next time hes out and you catch them switching in. But I usually use that tactic against stall teams since they play more conservatively. Baitran gets his kills almost every time.

Chris, has it been working well?
 
In every match I've played it's either dead Blissey / Vaporeon or they didn't have a Bulky Water anyway. So yeah.
 
Chris, how does this team fair against salamence? Especially those late game sweeper ones?

I know before you updated this team I killed you with mence and after 1 DD and SR damage your porygon is killed. If he has more than 70% health he will also kill your Honchkrow, OHKOs Zapdos and Kingdra. The only things that will survive an Outrage are Heatran and Empoleon and they get outspeed and killed next turn. Even with trace it can still cause problems if it gets in another. [but then that can be said about most teams so make sure that porygon doesn't dye]

Because of this and the fact that heatran will be killing those peskey bulky waters you should put Ice Beam on Empoleon.

And what are the 12 Def EVs on Empoleon for?

Otherwise its a good team and I look forward to battling this updated version.

Hope this helps.
 
Initmidate means that it needs two DDs and SRs for Outrage.

Ice Beam on Empoleon is probably the way to go in case there's a Mence in the wings.

12 Def is filler to keep hp divisible by 4.
 
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