Gen 4 Empoleon + Booms Offense

[Cdijk16]

I’ve been getting into Gen 4 OU recently and this is one of the first teams I’ve built for this tier. It works decently in the 1400s range of ladder, but it’s not as consistent as I’d like it to be. I think it has the potential to be a lot better, but I can’t put my finger on how.

Pokepaste: Empoleon Offense(Latias) (pokepast.es)

Teambuilding Process

1. I wanted to build around Agility Empoleon as I had heard it was a pretty good late game cleaner.

2. I added Heatran and Gengar as they can lure and use Explosion on Empoleon checks like Clefable, Latias, Blissey etc.
+ +
3. I added Tyranitar next to pursuit trap Scarf users like Latias and Rotom-A that can RK Empoleon.
+ + +
4. I added a bulky Swampert next to check opposing Tyranitar and Metragross and set Rocks.
+ + + +
5. Scarf Latias was added next as it can cripple special walls with Trick, RK Gyarados and provide general speed control.
+ + + + +

Set Descriptions

Heatran @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpA / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
Heatran: WOW is used to lure and cripple Tyranitar, which Gengar greatly appreciates. Explosion can be used to heavily damage special walls like Clefable, Blissey, Latias etc which benefits Empoleon and Gengar greatly. I am considering replacing this with a Shuca Berry Magma Storm + Explosion set to trap special walls more reliably(and help with Flygon occasionally) Sash helps in certain lead matchups.

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Explosion
Gengar: Gengar comes in ground and fighting attacks aimed at Tyranitar, Empoleon and Heatran and wreaks havoc. It puts pressure on Tyranitar and can use Explosion on Clefable and Blissey, which this team’s other special attackers appreciate. I’m considering replacing WOW with Taunt as Heatran already has WOW. It also provides a semi-switchin to Breloom.

Tyranitar @ Passho Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 48 HP / 144 Atk / 52 SpA / 184 SpD / 80 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
Tyranitar: Traps Latias, which Heatran and Empoleon appreciate. Passho berry makes trapping Latias and Starmie easier and enables it to check DD Gyarados. Fire Blast hits Scizor, Lucario and Metagross hard. It also serves as a decent all purpose special wall. I am considering running Superpower here to hit Clef harder, or Scarf for role compression.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Swampert: I was worried about DD Tyranitar, SD Lucario and Agility Metagross, so I went with a full PhysDef Swampert. Roar prevents DD Gyara setup and rocks help the other team members wear down special walls and get key KOs. Nothing too special here. I am considering making this a Physically Offensive Rocks Swampert and running Shuca Berry on Heatran to compensate.

Empoleon @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Agility
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
Empoleon: This team is built around enabling an Agility Empoleon sweep. Shuca Berry is used to check DD Tar in a pinch and to not be RK’ed by Scarf Gon when healthy. Grass Knot helps reduce this team’s weakness to opposing offensive waters like OffCune. Pursuit Tar trapping certain Scarfers benefits this set a lot.

Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
- Sleep Talk
Latias: The team was very weak to Breloom, lacked water resists and needed speed control. Sleep Talk Scarf Latias fixes both these issues, so I picked it as the Scarfer of choice. As a bonus, it can also cripple special walls with Trick. It also switches into a scares out Gyarados and Offensive Starmie, which improves my MU into those two threats. I’d have liked to have Healing Wish here, but the team was too Loom weak otherwise.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[Janik]

I think the 6 you currently have is quite weak to lucario, specifically the SD Bullet Punch set, for that reason I recommend swapping Gengar out for Rotom-H.

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Trick
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Overheat

Then I suggest using this Latias set:

Latias (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Surf / Thunderbolt

This Latias set can switch into Spore without having to resort to Sleep Talk, which is preferable because when using Sleep Talk you leave yourself vulnerable to being trapped or setup on due to the way the move interacts with choice items in DPP. This also helps combat paralysis moves from various Latias switch-ins like Jirachi and Clefable. The coverage options are up to you; HP Ground hits Heatran harder than Surf and Tbolt is good for Suicune and Gyarados without having to drop to -2. That being said, you lose valuable coverage against Bronzong and Surf does more damage to Ttar and is good into grounds. Colbur is another valuable item if you worry about being too weak to Scarftar.

TankPert doesn’t fit the team style unfortunately, it’s simply too passive for an offence team like this. Therefore, I recommend either physically offensive with stealth rock or some other Pert set like mixed 4 attacks with Focus Punch or Hp Elec (you can get creative with this: Pert has some interesting filler options like Yawn, for example).

Lead Heatran is fine, though I would recommend fitting Rocks on there (perhaps over epower? You have Wisp to threaten Ttar after all) to rack up hazard damage early. You can use double rocks with Pert if you’re worried about Rapin Spin, though you do have a spinblocker. You might want to change the evs to a simple 252/252 spread in special attack and speed with a speed boosting nature just to get the jump on the DDers, Jolly Loom leads, etc.

With Passho Tar you might want to consider Substitute + Petaya Berry on Empoleon, this makes it far more effective at sweeping given Torrent boost and +1 spa, at the cost of some coverage and another berry item. But you might be able to get away with it on this team.

That being said, if you choose to go the gengar route instead, I’d at least recommend using Taunt + Wisp with Lum, this does the same thing as the aforementioned Latias set but is a little more costly as Black Sludge is such a good item on Gar.

With these changes the team might be a little more consistent.

 

[Jeong]

Hi,

Honestly, the team looks good. Also, I love anything that contains tran + gengar + empo.

Now, I think you suffer from any fighting type threat like the aforementioned Lucario, Breloom, or nape.

I would keep that version of pert, so you can better adapt the things that are causing you problems.

Well, for my part I will only put some small changes as options that I think may be of help to you.

Heatran @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 16 HP / 48 Atk / 212 SpA / 232 Spe
Mild Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Explosion

Why Mild Nature? Well, it's just an idea. Mild + 48 EVs in atk you can remove defensive versions of Latias after SR damage. 212 SpA with Magma you can remove things like Azelf lead. Why 232 in Speed? You beat Agility gross or Kingdra Chesto or mix set (247). Is it true that DPulse makes more sense with the latter? But Explosion is enough.

Latias (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 208 HP / 112 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

I agree with Latias Lum Berry since we don't have anything that could fit Spore from the always annoying Breloom.

In my case, I have left their CM set but with small changes. 184 EVs in speed to surpass nape if it is his mixed set (330). 112 in SpA + HP Fire I think you have a 75.% of eliminating CB Scizor, for example. The rest in HP.

It is difficult to choose the right Berry. It all depends on the team or what you are looking for. For example, would I try Chople with SPower in ttar? This way you also hold up better vs Focus Blast Gengar. Which by the way, I would consider it a threat.

 

[Cdijk16]

I think the 6 you currently have is quite weak to lucario, specifically the SD Bullet Punch set, for that reason I recommend swapping Gengar out for Rotom-H.

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Trick
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Overheat

Then I suggest using this Latias set:

Latias (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Surf / Thunderbolt

This Latias set can switch into Spore without having to resort to Sleep Talk, which is preferable because when using Sleep Talk you leave yourself vulnerable to being trapped or setup on due to the way the move interacts with choice items in DPP. This also helps combat paralysis moves from various Latias switch-ins like Jirachi and Clefable. The coverage options are up to you; HP Ground hits Heatran harder than Surf and Tbolt is good for Suicune and Gyarados without having to drop to -2. That being said, you lose valuable coverage against Bronzong and Surf does more damage to Ttar and is good into grounds. Colbur is another valuable item if you worry about being too weak to Scarftar.

TankPert doesn’t fit the team style unfortunately, it’s simply too passive for an offence team like this. Therefore, I recommend either physically offensive with stealth rock or some other Pert set like mixed 4 attacks with Focus Punch or Hp Elec (you can get creative with this: Pert has some interesting filler options like Yawn, for example).

Lead Heatran is fine, though I would recommend fitting Rocks on there (perhaps over epower? You have Wisp to threaten Ttar after all) to rack up hazard damage early. You can use double rocks with Pert if you’re worried about Rapin Spin, though you do have a spinblocker. You might want to change the evs to a simple 252/252 spread in special attack and speed with a speed boosting nature just to get the jump on the DDers, Jolly Loom leads, etc.

With Passho Tar you might want to consider Substitute + Petaya Berry on Empoleon, this makes it far more effective at sweeping given Torrent boost and +1 spa, at the cost of some coverage and another berry item. But you might be able to get away with it on this team.

That being said, if you choose to go the gengar route instead, I’d at least recommend using Taunt + Wisp with Lum, this does the same thing as the aforementioned Latias set but is a little more costly as Black Sludge is such a good item on Gar.

With these changes the team might be a little more consistent.

Ok, thanks. Do you think I could get away with Modest Specs Sleep Talk Latias there instead? Also, is making Heatran Shuca + MStorm for Flygon a good idea?

 

[Janik]

Yeah you could use modest Specs Latias there instead, though having something that naturally outspeeds Mixed Flygon in particular is quite nice especially considering that your team is very grounded and therefore weak to spikes teams.

I think that if you are using Heatran in the lead, Sash is simply superior to Shuca in all situations. You want to get rocks up quickly and do as much as damage as possible without having to switch out. Magma Storm in the lead position isn’t an altogether bad idea, you can trap an unsuspecting Clefable or Latias trying to wear you down with paralysis and ensure that they are taken out with boom, whilst only having Explosion could lead you to end up booming on a ghost (given that they can just predict you and switch). However, I think that this is unnecessary given that you have a Pursuit Tyranitar, and that Flygons will generally not want to come in on a lead Heatran because they fear Sash + Boom, in addition, the accuracy drop is notable.

Though if you are using Heatran in the back and a modest Specs *Lead* Latias with Shuca you may use Mstorm + Shuca to try and trap Flygons. At that point I would consider dropping Ttar for something else, as you now have something to trap both Clef and Latias. Something like a Lum Jirachi would make an excellent addition, for example.

 

[Rubiaa]

I’ve been getting into Gen 4 OU recently and this is one of the first teams I’ve built for this tier. It works decently in the 1400s range of ladder, but it’s not as consistent as I’d like it to be. I think it has the potential to be a lot better, but I can’t put my finger on how.

Pokepaste: Empoleon Offense(Latias) (pokepast.es)

Teambuilding Process

1. I wanted to build around Agility Empoleon as I had heard it was a pretty good late game cleaner.

2. I added Heatran and Gengar as they can lure and use Explosion on Empoleon checks like Clefable, Latias, Blissey etc.
+ +
3. I added Tyranitar next to pursuit trap Scarf users like Latias and Rotom-A that can RK Empoleon.
+ + +
4. I added a bulky Swampert next to check opposing Tyranitar and Metragross and set Rocks.
+ + + +
5. Scarf Latias was added next as it can cripple special walls with Trick, RK Gyarados and provide general speed control.
+ + + + +

Set Descriptions

Heatran @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpA / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
Heatran: WOW is used to lure and cripple Tyranitar, which Gengar greatly appreciates. Explosion can be used to heavily damage special walls like Clefable, Blissey, Latias etc which benefits Empoleon and Gengar greatly. I am considering replacing this with a Shuca Berry Magma Storm + Explosion set to trap special walls more reliably(and help with Flygon occasionally) Sash helps in certain lead matchups.

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Explosion
Gengar: Gengar comes in ground and fighting attacks aimed at Tyranitar, Empoleon and Heatran and wreaks havoc. It puts pressure on Tyranitar and can use Explosion on Clefable and Blissey, which this team’s other special attackers appreciate. I’m considering replacing WOW with Taunt as Heatran already has WOW. It also provides a semi-switchin to Breloom.

Tyranitar @ Passho Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 48 HP / 144 Atk / 52 SpA / 184 SpD / 80 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
Tyranitar: Traps Latias, which Heatran and Empoleon appreciate. Passho berry makes trapping Latias and Starmie easier and enables it to check DD Gyarados. Fire Blast hits Scizor, Lucario and Metagross hard. It also serves as a decent all purpose special wall. I am considering running Superpower here to hit Clef harder, or Scarf for role compression.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Swampert: I was worried about DD Tyranitar, SD Lucario and Agility Metagross, so I went with a full PhysDef Swampert. Roar prevents DD Gyara setup and rocks help the other team members wear down special walls and get key KOs. Nothing too special here. I am considering making this a Physically Offensive Rocks Swampert and running Shuca Berry on Heatran to compensate.

Empoleon @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Agility
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
Empoleon: This team is built around enabling an Agility Empoleon sweep. Shuca Berry is used to check DD Tar in a pinch and to not be RK’ed by Scarf Gon when healthy. Grass Knot helps reduce this team’s weakness to opposing offensive waters like OffCune. Pursuit Tar trapping certain Scarfers benefits this set a lot.

Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
- Sleep Talk
Latias: The team was very weak to Breloom, lacked water resists and needed speed control. Sleep Talk Scarf Latias fixes both these issues, so I picked it as the Scarfer of choice. As a bonus, it can also cripple special walls with Trick. It also switches into a scares out Gyarados and Offensive Starmie, which improves my MU into those two threats. I’d have liked to have Healing Wish here, but the team was too Loom weak otherwise.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Very ebelt infernape weak, loom weak, and lucario weak. Same with rotom weak too, i would def fix those mu’s. Also, if tran dies u have a hard time breaking through skarm