Pokémon Eiscue

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Dumb Sir

Dumb Sir

Banned deucer.
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Base Stats: 75 HP | 80 Atk | 110 Def | 65 SpA | 90 SpD | 50 Spe

75 HP | 80 Atk | 70 Def | 65 SpA | 50 SpD | 130 Spe (No Ice)

Ability: Ice Face

Moves:
Level Up Moves:
- [01] Powder Snow
- [01] Tackle
- [06] Mist
- [12] Weather Ball
- [18] Icy Wind
- [24] Headbutt
- [30] Amnesia
- [36] Freeze-Dry
- [42] Hail
- [48] Aurora Veil
- [54] Surf
- [60] Blizzard

Egg Moves:
- Soak
- Aqua Ring
- Belly Drum
- Double-Edge
- Icicle Crash
- Head Smash

TMs:
- [TM04] Ice Punch
- [TM18] Reflect
- [TM21] Rest
- [TM24] Snore
- [TM25] Protect
- [TM27] Icy Wind
- [TM31] Attract
- [TM35] Hail
- [TM36] Whirlpool
- [TM39] Facade
- [TM45] Dive
- [TM46] Weather Ball
- [TM51] Icicle Spear
- [TM55] Brine
- [TM64] Avalanche
- [TM76] Round

TRs
- [TR03] Hydro Pump
- [TR04] Surf
- [TR05] Ice Beam
- [TR06] Blizzard
- [TR12] Agility
- [TR16] Waterfall
- [TR17] Amnesia
- [TR20] Substitute
- [TR21] Reversal
- [TR26] Endure
- [TR27] Sleep Talk
- [TR46] Iron Defense
- [TR69] Zen Headbutt
- [TR74] Iron Head
- [TR98] Liquidation

Notable Moves:
- Agility
- Aurora Veil
- Belly Drum
- Dive
- Facade
- Head Smash
- Icicle Crash
- Iron Head
- Liquidation
- Reversal
- Substitute
- Waterfall
- Zen Headbutt

New Ability:

Ice Face- Similar to Disguise, this will prevent damage from the first physical attack afflicted against the Pokemon. The 'Ice Face' will be restored the turn hail is set up (see Jordy's Post). The 'Ice Face' will not protect against status or entry hazards. Transform and Imposter will turn the user into whichever form Eiscue is currently in, however they will not copy the 'Ice Face' itself, only Eiscue's stats (see MachoCheeze's Post). The 'Ice Face' will not break against special attacks.

Pros:

- Ice Face along side Max Hailstorm allows Eiscue to abuse the hell out of physical attackers giving it a free turn to set up
- Belly Drum allows Eiscue to abuse said physical matchups
- When the 'Ice Face' is broken, Eicue gains a whopping 80 more base speed, giving it the ability to sweep or clean
- Ice Face also allows Eiscue to revenge kill weakened physical attackers or Belly Drum and sweep against players who try to break the 'Ice Face'
- The 'Ice Face' can't be copied by Ditto, meaning it can't abuse Eiscue's Set up attempts

Cons:

- Eiscue is pathetically mediocre in strength and bulk in both forms, even failing to KO bulkier threats with prior chip damage and Belly Drum and failing to live stronger attacks aimed at it.
- Ice Face only protects against physical attacks, meaning special attacks have free reign against Eiscue
- The 'Ice Face' must be broken for Eiscue to gain its speed boost
- Unless Psychic Terrain is up, Eiscue is susceptible to being revenge killed by priority and faster Pokémon
- Physical Attackers can switch out of Eiscue instead of giving it a speed boost through attacking it, leaving it vulnerable to special revenge killers.

Dynamaxing Potential:

- Offensive mons are usually the ones you want to Dynamax, and Eiscue is no exception
- Icicle Crash turns into Max Hailstorm, which sets up the hail and can restore Eiscue's broken 'Ice Face'
- Zen Headbutt turns into Max Mindstorm, which sets up Psychic terrain and can protect Eiscue from priority
- Eiscue also has access to Max Rockfall and Max Geyser that set up Sand and Rain respectively, which can be useful in niche situations

Potential Sets:

Eiscue @ Red Card / Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Face
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Icicle Crash
- Zen Headbutt
- Liquidation

This set basically acts as a B-Tech Mimikyu with Belly Drum that looks to abuse Ice Face as much as possible break for its offensive teammates or sweep. Belly Drum and Icicle Crash are pretty much the bread and butter of the set. Zen Headbutt and Liquidation are the two coverage options I found to be most effective, hitting Toxapex super effectively and giving Eiscue an option for hitting Aegislash respectively. Reversal, Head Smash, and Iron Head are also coverage options, however the Pokémon who get hit by these moves usually get hit by other options anyways. Facade is also an option to ignore burns, though I don't see this being a likely option. Dive is also something that should be mentioned as a way to stall out Dynamax turns, though this also an unlikely option. All of the above listed items work alright in there own regards, though I found Red Card to be the most useful, with Leftovers and Heavy-Duty Boots being respectable in their own right. Furthermore, Life Orb or Never-Melt Ice can be used to boost Eiscue's damage output, though I don't see these as necessary (gosh why can Z-Moves be a thing ;-;).

Eiscue @ Salac Berry
Ability: Ice Face
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Icicle Crash
- Substitute
- Zen Headbutt / Reversal / Liquidation

This set looks to wrap up games, using Ice Face as a means to set up a Belly Drum when all threats are eliminated or weakened. Sub-Drum + No Ice + Salac Berry allows Eiscue to outspend and obliterate most of the metagame, barring a few exceptions like Swift Swim Barraskewda in the Rain. Special attacking revenge killers are a given threat, though Toxapex and Corsola can also be issues unless running a specific coverage move or Eviolite is Knocked off respectively. Aegislash, Corviknight, and other defensive tanks will always pose a threat unless significantly weakened prior. As a coverage move, I recommend Zen Headbutt for Toxapex and Max Mindstorm for blocking priority, though Reversal, Liquidation, and other previously mentioned coverage moves have their merits.

To summarize, I do think that Eiscue has its moments, however its a very inconsistent mon that fails to do much in the face of the current fast and bulky meta, and I don't foresee this changing in the future. It's Ability is definitely intriguing, however its stats, coverage, and overall play style are nothing really to write home about. In lower tiers, I could definitely see this mon being a real threat, but for now, its cons really outweigh its pros.
 
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GamerOGuy said:
mimik-two
but seriously why do they always make physical attackers weaker? eiscue's ability along with many other things proves that gamefreak kinda guts physical attackers to the ground
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Conversely, physical attackers (of some types of at least) have way higher reliable STAB BST compared to special attackers, and greater access to potent boosting moves (at least before nasty plot TM)
 
DrPumpkinz said:
What's stopping your opponent from just switching into a special attacker as Eiscue sets up, and then taking it out?
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Nothing, but at that point he has Belly Drum up already and may have ice head down from the original switch in. That's the way to deal with him though, no doubt.
 
Do we know if it’s just physical moves that break the Ice Face? Can special contact moves like Grass Knot and Draining Kiss break it, too?
 
Eiscue is also outclassed by G-Darm as a ice type beserker as Darm can be a faster mon and can do more damage with Gorilla Tactics and a higher attack. Darm has heavier hitting moves.
 
This is probably a horrible idea coming from a mostly casual player, but what are the odds that a Weakness Policy + Agility set will catch people off-guard? My assumption is that people would assume Eiscue helpless if it isn't hit with a physical attack, then use a special one, only to activate the Weakness Policy (Ice is hardly a difficult type to hit super-effectively) and watch it get a speed boost as well. I know WP boost doesn't compare to the Belly Drum one, not does +2 Speed Ice Face Eiscue to a +0 Speed Noice Eiscue, but... maybe? Alternatively, it could be used with Trick Room ally (presumably in Doubles) instead of Agility?
 
eworm said:
This is probably a horrible idea coming from a mostly casual player, but what are the odds that a Weakness Policy + Agility set will catch people off-guard?
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It's a good idea, but likely lacks enough power to sweep. At +2 it has 568 attack, which is the same as scarf Darmanitan. Darmanitan of course has better coverage and doesn't need to rely on their opponent to boost them, so I'd rather use it than WP Eiscue. Perhaps it will see use in a lower tier.
 
This is a mon that needs a bit of planning to set up or else you will get wiped easily. I got devastated a few times and then just sweeped this guy's four pokemon. Including a Dracovish , a Galarian Darmanitan, and a gigantimaxed Grimsnarl. Still lost the battle though because Inteleon but I was close to getting it out.

Here's the clip: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexbeta-1020277326

Please note that I am not a competitive battler at all. I was just testing some Eiscue and Falink.
 
eworm said:
This is probably a horrible idea coming from a mostly casual player, but what are the odds that a Weakness Policy + Agility set will catch people off-guard?
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It's been a while since I've been intense with competitive Pokémon (last I did one of the on-site analyses was around B/W2) and have been off and on the past few gens, so take this with a grain of salt. That being said, that looks...risky at best, if not outright inadvisable. Weakness Policy works much better as more of an insurance method to make your opponent think twice about how to attack them, and works better on mons that can still do fine without the Weakness Policy boost in the first place (like Tyranitar and Metagross). In contrast, you're essentially relying on that +2 boost with Eiscue, since otherwise 80/65 offenses aren't exactly that threatening. True, Eiscue's Ice Face pseudo-Sub gives it a bit of leeway, as well as the huge speed difference once Ice Face is broken, but relying so much on your opponent hitting you with a SE move to do anything is a very dangerous proposition, and it's very much worth asking if you want Eiscue to even stay in on said Pokémon that hit you with the SE attack after the +2 boost. And while 75/110/90 defenses are by no means bad, the problem is magnified a bit more by the lack of non-Rest recovery. At best, between the pseudo-Sub, the bad defensive typing, the lack of recovery, and the need to be whacked by a SE move, you're playing a very dangerous game where there's not much margin for error, and there's a perfectly reasonable chance (at worst) that you end up with a dead penguin by trying to be too clever or a mon that doesn't really do much. And that's without asking how useful the Agility boost will actually be, especially if the Ice Face gets broken. Sure, it might work, but frankly I find it way too dependent on accurately predicting your opponent to work well.
 
The Belly Drum set sounds fun, but I doubt it has any chance in OU, especially with Galarian Darmanitan, which might not be as strong, but is still very powerful and does not need setup to do so. Even something like Salac Berry + Belly Drum is unreliable as you either have to waste a slot on Substitute, or rely on Stealth Rock being in the field.

On lower tiers, though, such a set will find a place to thrive (assuming it does not get banned).
 
Siggu said:
The Belly Drum set sounds fun, but I doubt it has any chance in OU, especially with Galarian Darmanitan, which might not be as strong, but is still very powerful and does not need setup to do so. Even something like Salac Berry + Belly Drum is unreliable as you either have to waste a slot on Substitute, or rely on Stealth Rock being in the field.

On lower tiers, though, such a set will find a place to thrive (assuming it does not get banned).
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Eiscue being overshadowed by Darmanitan goes even further when you consider that Darmanitan can directly encroach on Eiscue's role of "Ice type with Belly Drum and blazing speed" by using Zen Mode. While Eiscue has the advantage of being able to freely set up on physical attackers that lack Mold Breaker, Darmanitan wins in pretty much every other category. Obvious, transformed Zen Mode Darmanitan has a lot of statistical advantages over transformed Eiscue in having superior coverage, being slightly faster, and being way stronger. There's also the issue of Eiscue needing to both transform and set up to accomplish much of anything offensively, while even an untransformed and unboosted Zen Mode Darmanitan can put in work. And then there's the big issue of Eiscue relying on blocking a physical attack to transform, allowing its opponent to easily take advantage of it by simply switching to a special attacker. Darmanitan has much more control over its transformation, as it can manually transform itself with Belly Drum, or with hazard damage if it can't find an opportunity to set up.
 
taking Dive gives a semi turn, is it better to use it over surf when the hail fails or meets a special attacker?
Headbutt, waterfall, zen headbutt and iron head with that 130 speed gives flinching in some cases.

A physical perfect wall in hail , if aurora veil then has enough support.
During sun against grass types weather ball is fire typed.

Soak and Freeze-dry in one pokemon, great coverage here.

Aqua ring and leftovers with its 75hp/110def/90sp.def is enough to stand long enough.

Rest , snore but no sleep talk here, problematic...

Attract sets could be interesting if pulled out well, weird that didnt get Captivate taking how sweet looking it is...
 
Matleo said:
taking Dive gives a semi turn, is it better to use it over surf when the hail fails or meets a special attacker?
Headbutt, waterfall, zen headbutt and iron head with that 130 speed gives flinching in some cases.

A physical perfect wall in hail , if aurora veil then has enough support.
During sun against grass types weather ball is fire typed.

Soak and Freeze-dry in one pokemon, great coverage here.

Aqua ring and leftovers with its 75hp/110def/90sp.def is enough to stand long enough.

Rest , snore but no sleep talk here, problematic...

Attract sets could be interesting if pulled out well, weird that didnt get Captivate taking how sweet looking it is...
Click to expand...

It's odd how often you consider Attract when mentioning sets for Pokemon. Also, Soak/Freeze Dry is not "great coverage" just a possibly fun gimmick lol
 
Matleo said:
taking Dive gives a semi turn, is it better to use it over surf when the hail fails or meets a special attacker?
Headbutt, waterfall, zen headbutt and iron head with that 130 speed gives flinching in some cases.

A physical perfect wall in hail , if aurora veil then has enough support.
During sun against grass types weather ball is fire typed.

Soak and Freeze-dry in one pokemon, great coverage here.

Aqua ring and leftovers with its 75hp/110def/90sp.def is enough to stand long enough.

Rest , snore but no sleep talk here, problematic...

Attract sets could be interesting if pulled out well, weird that didnt get Captivate taking how sweet looking it is...
Click to expand...
Captivate isn't in this game
 
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