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Eevee: An Introduction to Spreads
(Note: The tag was changed to all gens, though the examples used here are BW examples, the information isn't exactly specific to BW)
A common question that arises from players learning competitive play, is “what spread is good?” “How do I make a good spread?” I firmly stand behind the belief that the best way to make a good spread is find a team posted by Finchinator that has the Pokemon that you want to use, and just steal his spread. Seriously, he spends way too much time on the damage calculator which is definately reflective of how good he is at this game.
art was stolen from google images
Eevee: An Introduction to Spreads
I have always enjoyed trying to further resources for BW on Smogon. Hopefully by doing so I can help grow the tier and meta that I have enjoyed so much. This thread is a continuation of my previous two looking to fill in some gaps of resources. Hopefully new players will find its information useful, and experienced players enjoy the read regardless of whether there is any information to take away here. Thank you to phosphor and Caetano93 for their input on this thread and helping me write it.
While
So what do you do if Finch hasn't already provided the community with a spread to use? Do you just go 252 252 max on two stats and call it good? Creating a spread is a zero-sum game. It's competive Pokemons version of scarcity (fundamental to basic economics). When you reallocate Ev’s from stat to another, think to yourself “what am I gaining?” “what am I losing?”. Every 4 Evs you place in one stat is 4 Evs that could be placed somewhere else thus you need justify the total benefit of placing those Evs. The net benefit of allocation of Ev’s needs to be positive. Different styles can be shown in spreads, some people (like me) keep it simple, otherwise known as lazy, and try to stick to 252 252, but in the end a more complex approach is often necessary to ensure that the Pokemon for whom we are utilizing is effective. [Btw the smogon dex's spreads are all dependant on how current the analysis is, so there is some good stuff in there]. What works and doesn't isn't always a given. Finding what works is a trial and error method. As you will see later there are multiple spreads that can work for the same set, so its up to you as the player to weigh the trade offs of each spread to determine what to use.
As with most subjects, there is a pre requisite of knowlegde. If you are keen to really delve into the weeds on Ev's then take a look [warning math involved] here. One take away is investment into a defensive stat increases the damage reduction [assuming you will be hit by the same kind of attack Physical or Special] more then investment into Health, whereas Hp investment is better for mitigating both types of attacks [Physical or Special]. Another big take away from this in my opinion is that 25x the number of evs/total stat = the percentage return for the investment. This states that Pokemon's stats are subject to dimishing marginal returns. The greater your base the lesser the return you get for investment. Inversely the smaller the base stat the greater the return for the investment. A glaring example of this would be with Chansey [250 Base HP with base 5 Def]:
Adding 252 Ev's to just the Hp stat
0 Atk Breloom Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 636-750 (90.3 - 106.5%)
now moving the 252 Ev's to defense instead of Hp
0 Atk Breloom Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 270-318 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
There are nuances to spreads where specific health values become important as well. All these nuances look to exploit the same mechanic: the calulator rounds down. I'll try my best to explain these simply. 0 Atk Breloom Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 636-750 (90.3 - 106.5%)
now moving the 252 Ev's to defense instead of Hp
0 Atk Breloom Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 270-318 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Economics applies to all things in life. Even though we have a great return on our Ev investment into Chanseys defense stat, it's still subject to a diminshing rate of return which is apparent on my crappy looking excel graph below (assuming my inputs were correct).
Note: I utilized the formula from the article above I linked, my y axis is the % return (see article) and the x axis is the points increase ie. 252 evs increases a stat by 63 points
The measurement of the rate of change above gives us the effeciency of the Ev's allocation.
Note: I utilized the formula from the article above I linked, my y axis is the % return (see article) and the x axis is the points increase ie. 252 evs increases a stat by 63 points
The measurement of the rate of change above gives us the effeciency of the Ev's allocation.
Stealth Rock Number: Really only relavent when you are Stealth Rock weak, but say you are Stealth rock weak by having an odd number Health, you can come in an extra time as the calculator always rounds down, leaving you with 1hp on the last swap in. Example for example if you have 301 hp, 301/2 = 150.5 so you lose 150 from Stealth Rock, allowing you to come in an extra time with 1hp remaining.
Substitute Number: Substitute numbers function the same way. Because the calculator rounds down you can use substitute an extra time, leaving you left over with 1hp (just make sure that sand storm chip doesn't kill you though).
Life Orb Number: They don't exist. I don't believe in them, but utilizing the fact that the calculator rounds down, if we set the HP stat to end with the number 9, we fire off an extra attack before succumbing to recoil.
Poison Heal Number: the calculator rounding down is yet again exploitable here. Pokemon with poison heal recieve 1/8th Hp back. It would then follow that with poison heal you would want to hit the maximum whole number divisible by 8 since the damage calculator rounds down.
Jump Points: Jump points occur for any stat with + nature. What happens in simple terms is the stat change when 4 evs are invested is 2 points instead of the usual one. Simply this is caused, by once again, the game rounds down. I linked below in the notes an article on the exact calculation and cause of jump points. A common exploit of a jump point is Ferrothorn running 208 SpDef Evs with a + nature, since the change from 204 to 208 Evs gives a jump point. 
Speed numbers: are crucial as well, understanding common threats of the tier and creeping them by one point (allows you to move first) can be game changing. Example would be Landorus-Therian running 232 evs into speed (276 total speed) making it 1 point faster then adamant Excadrill, a common BW OU threat. The speed tiers threads listed in the RoA Resource hub can help with deciding what to speed creep.
The order in the team builder is reflective of the methodolgy one should follow: .1) you chose the Pokemon you want to use [I wrote an introduction to building a while back if you are stuck on phase 1] .2) what is this Pokemon going to accomplish ie. what is the role you want it to fill [this is where you chose the items and moves, think about how the general role you are utilizing it for] .3) how are you going to allocate to ev's to ensure that your chosen pokemon is capable of fulfilling this role?
Breaking out step three into a process: - find your benchmarks. What do you need to outspeed? What specific attacks are you looking to survive. What are you trying to OHKO or 2HKO. Some Pokemon only need a simple 252 252 spread.
- create a baseline simplified version that accomplishes most of this. Calc general attacks that you would like dish out or recieve here to find short comings
- In what stats can you spare Evs to be reallocated to a different stat in order to hit other benchmarks deemed important?
- CALC IT. The Damage calculator is your best friend. Calc it.
There always going to be a level of objectivity where a spread is blatantly good or bad, but you delve into it further, you will see that there is also layer subjectivity to what spreads work and don't work. It is dependant on your team, the capacity in which the Pokemon is being uitlized, and what you as a player deem important.
I like to learn through demonstration so, I'll narrate the process of creating a spread for Breloom and a Latios.
[if I didn't do it this way then the thread also wouldn't be absurdly long, and what fun is there in not having stupid long threads]
Example 1:
[if I didn't do it this way then the thread also wouldn't be absurdly long, and what fun is there in not having stupid long threads]
Example 1:
Toxic Orb Breloom provides interesting insight to loses and gains that occur when reallocating Ev's and is an excellent example what to look for when allocating effort values. We are going to be utilizing Breloom in an offensive capacity, thus we have our set minus the Ev spread of:
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Facade
- Protect
There is always going to be the need to understand the about Pokemon that we are making a spread for. Here with Breloom I know a quite a few things: He has an excellent base attack and respectable base Health. Toxic Heal allows for him to regenerate 1/8th of his health back each turn. Breloom can come in on Rotom and Ferrothorn rather freely thanks to his typing and ability. Water types in general can be a free switch in provided he is able to tank. He is checked by Latios, Amoonguss, Tentacruel, Celebi, Thundurus-Therian, Reuniclus, and Landorus to name a few. So where do I start? Well I have Swords Dance(SD) listed above, but I will be useless if I can't live a hit and still be able to do anything afterwords. Lets look at HP first. It's absolutely nevessary to have the calculator open and constently calc. I will want to have a heavy investment in HP to increase the overall survivability of my Breloom, as said earlier, increasing Health increases the survivability from both physical and special attacks. I know poison heal grants 1/8th recovery so I am going to select alter my effort values to ensure that I get the most health back. So 232 Hp evs puts the HP stat at 319. (319/8)=39 (rounded down). increasing that to 236 Evs and we get 320 HP (320/8)=40. Exceeding that 40Hp regenerated won't get me more Hp back as the value is rounded down to a whole number, and I will get a better return if I invest the remaining Ev's elsewhere. Thinking of specific types of attacks, the SpDef with a base of 60 is rather worrysome. It will need addressing. I mentioned before that certain benchmarks need to be hit, and the quality of the outcome can certainly be staisfactory. While I stressed that increasing health is important (which is it is), looking at Breloom's counters and things he likes come in on (water types such as Politoed Rotom-W, and Gastrodon), they are all predominately special attackers which further reinforces the need to invest in Special defense. Lets evaluate some calcs first. Stuff like Reuniclus can OHKO with no SpA investment, and Amoonguss though can almost OHKO this set, so increasing SpDef Evs will be necessary. I am going to just go 252 SpDef for now. I prefer to start from max then cut. Maxing SpDef while maintaining a neutral nature we get:
0 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 174-206 (54.3 - 64.3%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
36+ SpA Thundurus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 170-200 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Landorus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 114-136 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 237-280 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 237-280 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 254-300 (79.3 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 210-248 (65.6 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Even with out a + SpDef Nature, we are tanking hits, prompting me to ask myself "if I can take a hit, what kind of damage can I do back after a Swords Dance(SD) boost (assuming I get to Sd on the swap)". well once again we have to spam the damage calc [S/o Austin]. 36+ SpA Thundurus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 170-200 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Landorus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 114-136 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 237-280 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 237-280 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 254-300 (79.3 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 236 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 210-248 (65.6 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+2 0+ Atk Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Tentacruel: 354-417 (97.2 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 227-268 (52.5 - 62%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 0 Atk Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 244 HP / 176 Def Landorus-Therian: 172-203 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 Atk Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 104 HP / 156 Def Thundurus-Therian: 276-325 (84.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 218-257 (51.4 - 60.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So far there is stuff that normally comes in on a Breloom which we can tank a hit from (for the most part), but we are also getting really close to OHKO'ing or 2HKOing back. Maybe if I invest a little bit into the Attack, Breloom can go from threat to serial killer. So lets give some investment into Attack and see what I can get. Note that my goal with the attack investment is to give the minimal needed investment into the attack stat hitting certain 2HKO or OHKO benchmarks on Pokemon I think are important to hit. Amoonguss is a great Pokemon to start with, as it is explicitly used in the tier as a Breloom check and is quite bulky. So if I can get him into a 2HKO range, I should be able to hit less bulky stuff like Thundurus-Therian very hard. There are a few things I'll do here. Ill add the leftover EVs remaining to attack, then move some of the Ev's from Spdef (since we had some room to remove with out losing to much bulk in our calcs that we get OHKO'd) even toy with the nature. This is a trial and error process, add and subtracting from stats to see how you can change the output in the calculator. Well, low n behold I find that +2 Adamant 0 attack Breloom can 2HKO Amoonguss (98.8%). Let me check how it hits vs other stuff that I mentioned above. We are close OHKO'ing Thundurus (62.5%), 91.8% chance to 2HKO Reuniclus,72.7% chance to 2HKO 244 HP / 176 Def Landorus-Therian, 3HKO on max defense Gliscor, guaranteed OHKO on Latios. lastly with +72 Def Tentacruel 81.3% to OHKO (obviously against other stuff like Lando we got way better odds) . We still have some room with SpDef Evs to play with here. So maybe move some more of those into our Attack stat to try to get some more guarenteed 2HKO's or OHKO's. If I add 36 more Ev's to the attack stat then I get OHKO on Tentacruel which alone is enough to justify moving them, but on top of that Amoonguss and Reuniclus become a guarenteed 2HKO as well. Before moving forward we should double check to make sure that didn't lose to much Spdef which is now at 236 Evs. +2 0 Atk Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 227-268 (52.5 - 62%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 0 Atk Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 244 HP / 176 Def Landorus-Therian: 172-203 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 Atk Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 104 HP / 156 Def Thundurus-Therian: 276-325 (84.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 218-257 (51.4 - 60.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Now here is where some trades need to be weighed for future allocation of Ev's. Heatran at 0 speed investment has 190 speed. It would be nice to outspeed Heatran. Some version of Politoed will run more speed as well to try to trap Breloom with encore. So I can cut more off from the SpDef down to 176 Evs, or remove the 36 Ev's from my attack taking my chances with some 2HKO's and 24 from Spdef as well. I can start with seeing what I lose if I drop more SpDef but this time also looking at hits I INTEND to take (ex. Rotom-w Hpump or V-Switch), after all we are dropping a lot of Ev's from our starting 252. [This is where the outcome can be more subjective.] I have reallocated Evs now so my Breloom is Ev'd as 236 HP / 36 Atk / 176 SpD / 60 Spe. Again I'll double check to see what i lost in terms of bulk for the additional gains in speed. Stuff like the odd Ice Beam from a Politoed we can tank (bar the choice Specs set). There is still a lot we are able to tank plus extra stuff like Scarf Tyranitars Fireblast, a LO Draco Meteor from Mixed Garchomp, even a Specs Keldeo Secret Sword (which is nuts).
There is this idea though, that as games progress maintaining 100% Hp is less of a given. Stealth Rock, Spikes and Sand storm can all chip at Breloom. While Poison Heal is an amazing regenerative ability, I would venture to say that its not always a given that we can keep him at 100%. While Sludge bomb is a given on most Tentacruel's and Amoonguss's while Landorus-Therian and Thundurus-Therian both run Hidden Power Ice, if we are to trade with these Pokemon when Breloom goes +2 later in a game, then we need to be able to safely tank these hits. As I was running through this I thought, I was close till done, until Caetano93 asked what Venoshock does to the set. It's a not common move, but not something that should come as a total surprise if your opponent has a Tentacruel or Amoonguss with that. Venoshock can come critically close to OHKO'ing us, and as mentioned before thats assuming we are at 100%. This brings us to make a decision of what do we want to forgo. We are faster then bulky Heatran but we fail to OHKO with out a SD Boost, while Heatran threatens to OHKO back (depending Heatran's SpDef investment). Toying with how to allocate the Evs, I can ignore the speed creep Heatran, and go 236 SpDef Evs. I could also drop some of the power as well. If we go all in on SpDef investment and add a + nature, Breloom will reach some impressive special bulk. What I end up with is 3 options, each having their pros and cons.
 Breloom @ Toxic Orb Ability: Poison Heal EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 176 SpD / 60 Spe Adamant Nature - Swords Dance - Drain Punch - Facade - Protect | Breloom @ Toxic Orb Ability: Poison Heal EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpD / 20 Spe Careful Nature - Swords Dance - Facade - Drain Punch - Protect | Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb Ability: Poison Heal EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 236 SpD Adamant Nature - Swords Dance - Drain Punch - Facade - Protect |
I could call it good and go with the first set. I could also just ignore the power benchmarks that I hit and go all in with the SpDef investment. With max SpDef we can live some insanely strong hits [ex. Timid max SpA Heatran's Lava Plume does 80.6 - 95.6%). You could try to find a middle ground between Special Defense and power as best as we can by dropping the speed. A nice part about this approach is from 100% will always tank a 0 SpA Tentacruel and Amoonguss's Venoshock.
Personally this is where what is good becomes subjective. All the spreads up here work, so which one is best becomes dependant on which benchmark is most important to you. What is the "critical" values that you need to hit. Find those, and adjust the spread accordingly.
Example 2:
Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Trick
- Dragon Pulse
Latios is the tiers premier threat. The dictonary definition of broken. Unlike Breloom, making a spread for Latios is absurdly simple and gives a great example of how not every spread has to be complex. Latios has some respectable stats. Decent base defense and HP, along with a great base Speed and excellent base SpA. Choice Specs just further increases Latios's raw power. Latios checks other offensive threats. This is important to remember. Threats such as Keldeo and Terrakion both have a max Speed of 346. Latios 350, so any deduction from Latios's speed stat would diminish Latios's capability as an offensive presence, and its ability to check other threats. It would then follow that any deduction from the SpA stat is useless and hurts Latios's ability to function as a offensive presence. While you might not be gaining extra KO's by maxing the SpA stat, it still necessary to maximize to maintain the offensive pressure and presence.
Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Trick
- Dragon Pulse
This logic can hold true for a large variety of offensive threats in the metagame. Take Keldeo for example. It already doesn't outrun Latios, so why do we need to max out speed, we could just try to creep Tentacruel or Garchomp. Well is that extra bulk worth it? Also what happens if you are in a Keldeo vs Keldeo scenerio. You are giving up the speed tie. Offensive threats maintain a strong presence through the max attack/Special attack. So sacrficing that presence isnt worth it. Maintaining that extra power (say an extra 10% damage output) which may not really help you when attacking something that is 100%, could be game changing later in the game. As game progress, Pokemon get chipped from Rocks, a couple switch ins, sandstorm etc. With extra power not only are you maintaining that presence , but eventually through out the game opponents can be worn down and come into say 2HKO range or even OHKO range depending on the scenerio.
Well that's my long ass eloboration on Ev's. To all who made it this far. Congratulations, following my train of thought is not easy. Maybe this thread was worth the read and can help as a resource. As always feedback/critism of this thread is appreciated to further its usefulness as a resource.
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