Eevee Cup

TheMantyke

TheMantyke

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Thanks to Serebii and Nuggetbridge for notification.

http://ja.pokemon-gl.com/about/sp/ec2012/
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Japan will soon receive the Eevee Cup, a tournament that differs heavily from what we've seen from official tournaments before. The tournament is played in rotation matches, making it the first rotation tournament Nintendo's ever given us. Additionally, only 8 Pokemon are allowed: Eevee and its Evolutions.

This thread will serve as a place to talk about the tournament, whether it be about the tournament and its rules, discussion once its on going, or some speculation as to what might be good.

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To kick things off, here are some general notes:

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Vaporeon
  • Vaporeon passes the biggest Wishes in the rule set. Considering how cool Wish is in rotation matches, that's pretty stellar
  • Water + Bug hits everything in the rule set for neutral damage. You should consider running Signal Beam instead of Ice Beam since Ice Beams only good for Leafeon
  • Vaporeon can abuse Rain very well thanks to its powerful STAB attacks and Hydration. Consider maybe running a rain set with Jolteon?
  • Water Absorb and Hydration are both useful abilities.

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Jolteon
  • Fastest of the Eeveelutions and still packs a punch.
  • Can afford to run a Modest nature instead of Timid if you don't care about speed tieing with enemy Jolteons
  • Electric + Bug hits everything in rule set for neutral damage, additionally hitting 4 of the 8 Pokemon for super effective damage.
  • Pretty stellar rain abuser alongside Vaporeon and Umbreon who can set it up reliably. Thunder hurts.
  • Enemy Volt Absorb Jolteons might be a big enough threat to merit Hidden Power Ground.
  • Volt Absorb is probably the best choice of ability since Electric attacks look common and status does not.

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Flareon
  • Don't count Flareon out immediately
  • High Special Defense in a rule set filled with Special Attackers is cool
  • Fire + Normal offers perfect coverage
  • Hits the three Pokemon with the largest defense stats for Super Effective damage between STAB and Superpower.
  • Flash Fire is useful if you run into an enemy flareon, but Guts seems like a better choice. Guts boosted attacks in a rule set with pretty frail defense hurt.

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Espeon
  • Highest Special Attack, tied with Glaceon
  • Psychic + Bug grants you perfect coverage as only Espeon and Umbreon get in your way.
  • Boosting moves are pretty cool in doubles, Calm Mind set looks really deadly, especially when paired with wish support from Umbreon or Vaporeon.
  • Frail, but Calm Mind compensates for it
  • Magic Bounce isn't as useful thanks to the lack of entry hazards. It could even prove to be troublesome if you end up reflecting a random Thunder Wave from Jolteon or a Will o Wisp from Flareon.

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Umbreon
  • Phenominal tank
  • Takes neutral damage from every eeveelution's STAB beyond Espeon's
  • Singal Beam looks to be pretty common
  • Fantastic wish passer and weather enducer
  • Curse + Payback looks like it's going to hurt, only enemy Umbreon resist it.
  • Both abilities suck pretty badly. There are hardly any flinching moves, so Synchronize looks to be the best.

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Leafeon
  • Grass + Normal hits everything for neutral damage, Leaf Blade and Double Edge hurt.
  • strong physical defense isn't the most helpful when you're going against so many physical attackers.
  • Swords dance looks pretty scary, only outsped by Jolteon and Espeon
  • Chlorophyll makes this thing scary to fight in the sun.

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Glaceon
  • Fantastic Special Attack
  • Ice STAB actually isn't that good, 3 of the 8 allowed resist it.
  • Hyper Voice won't break through Vaporeon or Flareon any time soon, but you can at least hit them for strong neutral damage
  • Ability really doesn't matter thanks to manual hail being so terrible.

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Eevee
  • Eevee is probably just a joke, but it might be worth looking at Adaptability Last Resorts
  • Nothing in this rule set resists Normal!
  • Eep Edit: Don't forget Eeveeolite!

Though this might not ever come to america, it's definitely something fun to speculate about. Be sure all of you with Japanese Cartridges get in on the action!

Also, for participating, you get one of these eevee dollls

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goddamn, those things are adorable.
 
This tourney looks really cool! Expecting jolteon and espeon on every team though. Still very cool. I hope it comes to US.
 
Wow, it's really cool to see Nintendo take the initiative to make such a unique rule set. Only one problem....only 8 Pokemon allowed? I have mixed feelings on that...it's super limiting, but on the other hand I guess that means winning relies much more on raw skill than team matchups.
 
Espeon doesn't have Magic Guard, it has Magic Bounce. Magic Bounce itself could actually be a burden, because I assume that if a Jolteon were to use Thunder Wave on MB Espeon, it bounces it back to Jolteon...and it gets 25% health back. Same thing with Flash Fire Flareon; does WoW (there's not any reason to be carrying it, but just in case) on MB Espeon and gets a Fire attack boost. On the other side, you can Synchronize paralysis onto a Jolteon if it does that on an Espeon, and that can change the course of a battle.

Looks like it will be rain dominated. Vaporeon + Jolteon + Espeon can run most combinations in the rain. Flareon + Leafeon + Espeon could be a good sun combination as well. Adamant Chlorophyll Leafeon can outspeed anything aside from Timid Scarf Jolteon notably, and is guaranteed to 2HKO anything (aside from 252/252 Umbreon or Leafeon)
 
mzenken said:
Espeon doesn't have Magic Guard, it has Magic Bounce. Magic Bounce itself could actually be a burden, because I assume that if a Jolteon were to use Thunder Wave on MB Espeon, it bounces it back to Jolteon...and it gets 25% health back. Same thing with Flash Fire Flareon; does WoW (there's not any reason to be carrying it, but just in case) on MB Espeon and gets a Fire attack boost. On the other side, you can Synchronize paralysis onto a Jolteon if it does that on an Espeon, and that can change the course of a battle.
Click to expand...
Good catch with the typo and good point with that explanation. Reflecting off status aliments to activate your ability sounds pretty interesting although pretty unreliable. I guess I'll edit that into the OP.
 
Okay, so I have waaaaaay too much time on my hands and I enjoyed theorymonning about this tournament with others on IRC, so I decided to draft up Speed tiers for the tournament. Feel free to mention if I missed something.

What a use of a Friday evening

Eevee Cup Speed Tiers
Code: 
Stat	Pokemon					BS	Nature	EVs	Boosts

362	Leafeon					95	+Spe		252	2
300	Jolteon					130	+Spe		252	1
294	Leafeon					95	Neutral		252	2
200	Jolteon					130	+Spe		252	0
192	Vaporeon, Flareon, Umbreon, Glaceon	65	+Spe		252	1
182	Jolteon					130	Neutral		252	0
178	Espeon					110	+Spe		252	0
175	Vaporeon, Flareon, Umbreon, Glaceon	65	Neutral		252	1
162	Espeon					110	Neutral		252	0
161	Leafeon					95	+Spe		252	0
147	Leafeon					95	Neutral		252	0
144	Eevee					55	+Spe		252	1
128	Vaporeon, Flareon, Umbreon, Glaceon	65	+Spe		252	0
117	Vaporeon, Flareon, Umbreon, Glaceon	65	Neutral		252	0
115	Leafeon					95	Neutral		0	0
103	Espeon					110	-Spe, 0 IV	0	0
96	Eevee					55	+Spe		252	0
85	Vaporeon, Flareon, Umbreon, Glaceon	65	Neutral		0	0
63	Vaporeon, Flareon, Umbreon, Glaceon	65	-Spe, 0IV	0	0
54	Eevee					55	-Spe, 0IV	0	0
 
No items is lame, though to an extent I'll be glad there will be no game of hats between who has Specs and who has Scarf (though I have no clue how choice items work in rotation battles, not sure if the move resets when you rotate the mon out or you have to switch). On Flareon, I honestly feel it to be essential against the underrated Glaceon and it deals with everything else but Vaporeon and boosted Leafeon fairly reliably if you have Wish/screens. Most of its flaws aren't as pronounced in this tier: for instance, its piss poor movepool isn't much of an issue because it has a super effective move for every Eeveelution that has a modicum of a Defense stat (sans Vaporeon) and 130 Atk obviously hits the rest of the 65/60 crowd hard. It shares a speed tier with three other mons which offers some flexibility in EV spreads and its low HP is alleviated by beefy Wishes from Vaporeon or Umbreon. Toxic is actually an excellent move on Flareon because you're either going to bait something you can't hit hard enough and severely cripple Wish chains or hit a Synchronizer and activate Guts that way. I wouldn't count it out just yet, it seems like slower, bulkier team comps stand as much of a chance as the Espeon / Jolteon spam.
 
Is there any official confirmation on the no items bit? Because that's going to make Flareon a lot less useful, among other things.
 
Pretty sure it's on the Japanese Global Link website.
Not to spam, but I direct you to what I just posted: Flareon would be more useful in a tier with no Choice Specs or LO, all you have to do is run Toxic. You either cripple their Wish chains (and it's the perfect bait for Vaporeon) or hit a Synchronizer and activate Guts that way. Best case scenario is if someone foolishly rotates to Umbreon against you hoping to set up Curse, Toxic both it and you, and Superpower it into oblivion.
 
I think I'd run something like WoW Flareon / CM Espeon / Umbreon / Jolteon / SD Leafeon / Vaporeon. Are there really any other options now that items don't exist?

Heal Bell is super valuable and should be standard filler.
 
What's strange is that nuggetbridge's and serebii's news on the event never mentioned that items weren't allowed, only bulbapedia's. They very well could have made a wording mistake or misinterpreted the wonder launcher ban. If someone can verify the lack of items from another source, that'd be great.

Normally I'd say that not allowing items is strange but, well, what isn't strange about this tournament?

Also, I'd like to shamelessly plug that we'll be hosting a mock version of this tournament in the Wi-Fi section.
 
There doesn't appear to be anything about banning items on the main page from a cursory and unintelligible reading, but perhaps there is in the extended regulations. We'll double check.
 
I will say that Sword Dance Leafeon gonna be a huge threat, hitting for super effective 4/8 of the rule set pokemon, the only counters may be Choice Scarf Glaceon and Defensive Flareon, but Glaceon don't enjoy common use and Flareon is better as Specially Defensive.

The common SD set will smash things appart.
 
Sidfrid said:
I will say that Sword Dance Leafeon gonna be a huge threat
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agreed, but...

Flareon is better as Specially Defensive.
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Not really. In this meta, you have Water, Electric, Psychic, and Ice Special STABs. The only one Flareon can actually tank and hit back is the Ice STAB, which isn't going to be common. Meanwhile, you need to have something that can handle Leafeon, so a physically defensive Flareon with Will-o-wisp or Lava Plume is going to be valuable. Flareon can also burn or Superpower Umbreon, which makes stopping CM Espeon (probably the most threatening thing in the meta) a much harder task.

Sadly, though Glaceon can hit like a truck, it's just not better than Flareon at countering Leafeon and supporting the team.
 
With so many pokemon's capable of pulling Heal Bell set's, i won't really enjoy throwing status just to be shrugged off by an opponent Umbreon, Vaporeon or even Espeon, imo. On the other hand, Signal beam looks like it will be pretty common on almost all offensive pokemon's set, and a fainted opposing pokemon is better than a burned one.

cim said:
Flareon can also burn or Superpower Umbreon, which makes stopping CM Espeon (probably the most threatening thing in the meta) a much harder task.
Click to expand...

For Espeon I've been thinking a mono-attacking bulky set with double screen's, with the speed it can set up screen's faster and with the bulk can use a few calm mind, if Umbreon is on the opponent side's when you are ready to attack, rotate it, while keeping all the boost's you got.
 
On any Leafeon team, I would consider using Synthesis + 3 attacks over a Swords Dance set. Since pretty much all Leafeon teams will be sun teams, if you can control the weather, the 2/3rds health recovery payoff will be more rewarding, compared to letting Life Orb and other possible residual damage piling up and killing your Leafeon.

Who would be the standard Heal Bell user, Umbreon? It's a shame that it can't really do anything aside from that, though.
 
mzenken said:
Who would be the standard Heal Bell user, Umbreon? It's a shame that it can't really do anything aside from that, though.
Click to expand...

Aside from a supporting role, Umbreon never shined for anything else. But Umbreon can give you team Sunny Day support for you Chlorophyll Leafeon.
 
A friend translated the item rules from the page evan linked, and items ARE allowed:
1. You can make Pokemon hold items, but you cannot make more than two Pokemon hold the same item.
2. You may not use items that are not a. Obtained during normal play, eg. from Pokemon GTC, Events, AR Search, and Dream World, or b. given formally as a Gift.
3. You may not use Soul Dew.

So the same as usual, with item clause in effect. Notably, DW and event exclusive items are banned. Choice Scarf Glaceon spam, anyone?
 
I think Glaceon will be the dominant anti-meta force.
Manual Hail isn't actually that terrible because it negates both sun and rain, making Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon and Leafeon less dangerous. It also makes Espeon and Umbreon's Morning Sun and Moonlight less effective. In other words, ALL eevolutions other than Glaceon are crippled by Hail.
Don't forget it also gets Snow Cloak so it could get lucky with some evasion hax.

Blizzard in hail is going to hurt everything except Vaporeon - even Flareon will take a massive chunk despite its special defense since its HP is so terrible.

Other than Eevee, Glaceon is the only one that gets a priority move in Ice Shard, and even though its attack sucks it could be used as a finisher against Jolteon and Leafeon, who both outspeed Glaceon.

Finally, Glaceon gets Mirror Coat and enough special bulk to use it effectively against Vaporeon, who would normally wall it all day.

As Flareon, arguably the worst of the bunch other than Eevee, is the only eevolution that has a type advantage against Glaceon, it can make full use of its actually decent bulk and act as a bulky attacker in this meta.

Specially bulky Wish/Curse/Ice Shard/Mirror Coat (if you can keep it away from Toxic and Flareon) and specially offensive Hail/Blizzard/Hyper Voice/HP Bug are probably its best options.
 
ElectivireRocks said:
Don't forget it also gets Snow Cloak so it could get lucky with some evasion hax.
Click to expand...

I see a lot of use for Brightpowder + Snow Cloak, since japanese players takes luck as part of the game. For manual Hail, I found it pretty interesting, looking around moveset's the only other eeveevolution that get Hail is Vaporeon, but Vaporeon really apreciate downpours. But as you say all others eeveevolutions get crippled by Hail, so is something to take into consideration when building a team.

And for you offensive set, is there any reason to use HP Bug over Signal Beam?
 
ElectivireRocks said:
As Flareon, arguably the worst of the bunch other than Eevee, is the only eevolution that has a type advantage against Glaceon, it can make full use of its actually decent bulk and act as a bulky attacker in this meta.
Click to expand...
You made some good points, but I really think you're underestimating Flareon here. Solid special bulk with HP investment, only Vaporeon can hit it super effectively outside of Hidden Power or lolDig, and it can hit all the other Eeveelutions on their weaker defensive stat and/or super effectively. With Guts active or a boosting item it can even OHKO Umbreon to open up your opponent for an Espeon sweep.

Speaking of Glaceon and Espeon, since CM Espeon looks like it'll be the top offensive threat, anyone think there will be any merit to running Frost Breath?
 
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