DPP Heracross (Full Revamp/Update)

Status
Not open for further replies.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/heracross

Heracross has yet to have a revamp. With Latias now OU, seems like a good time.

Stuff to Change
- remove mention of Garchomp / Deoxy-S
- add in Latias as Pokemon to revenge kill with Scarf set
- combine SD and Flame Orb set
- possibly remove Reversal or one of the Sleep Talk sets
- alter some EV spreads

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Megahorn
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Night Slash / Toxic
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>"Choice" is in reference to the item and popularity of this Heracross set. Although he doesn't pack the raw power a Choice Band would bring, Choice Scarf Heracross is still a potent threat. He outspeeds almost everything — aside from other Choice Scarf users — with the Scarf attached and still boasts an Attack of 383, when using an Adamant nature. This set is effective at revenge killing threats such as Scarf Magnezone, Latias, and Azelf to name a few.</p>

<p>Toxic may seem out of place on the heavy-hitting Heracross, but the Choice Scarf variant doesn't have the firepower to take on his more troublesome counters, such as Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Dusknoir. But Heracross can Toxic these (as well as bulky Water-types) on the switch-in, making life more difficult for them. For instance, Gliscor normally Roosts off damage faster than Heracross can deal it, but once Gliscor is poisoned, it has to contend with Roosting off the increasing poison damage as well as Heracross's attacks (most likely Stone Edge), making it possible for Heracross to go toe-to-toe with Gliscor and win.</p>

<p>Pursuit has been left out of this set because without a Choice Band, Pursuit's damage can be disappointing. Although an Adamant nature provides significantly more power, with a Jolly nature you outspeed Naive Scarf Heatran. In that case you might want to reallocate some speed EVs into your Hit Points.</p>

[SET]
name: Bug of Choice (Band)
move 1: Megahorn
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Pursuit / Night Slash
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 94 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With a Choice Band boost Heracross is incredibly powerful and few Pokémon can survive hits from his 120 base power dual STAB moves, Megahorn and Close Combat. Flying-types ruin the fun, but that's where Stone Edge comes in to at least 2HKO the majority of Heracross' airborne foes.</p>

<p>Pursuit works great on the brawling bug, as it punishes fleeing opponents and is particularly useful against slower Psychic-types who switch out, fearing a Megahorn. Night Slash allows Heracross to 2HKO Dusknoir in case it stays in, predicting a Pursuit. Sleep Talk is also a good option in the last slot if you are in need of a sleep absorber. Heracross can switch in with relative safety against many sleep inducers, such as Milotic, Gengar, Breloom, and Tangrowth. Bear in mind that Sleep Talk will fail after the first use due to the restrictions of Choice items, so you will have to switch out.</p>

<p>In a big turnaround from the previous generation, not even Skarmory can risk switching into Choice Band Heracross as Close Combat will 2HKO the steel bird. Sounds scary, doesn't it? We haven't even gotten to Guts yet. If 574 Attack wasn't enough, Heracross can gain a further boost by switching into a status move. With Choice Band and Guts activated, Heracross will essentially be operating with over a "free" Swords Dance every time he unleashes his attacks. Don't expect this to last long however, because burn or Toxic damage will wear him out quickly.</p>


[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Megahorn
move 3: Close Combat
move 4: Stone Edge / Facade
item: Wide Lens / Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A more sweeper oriented set than the previous one. This is a simple premise, really; just wait until your opponent's team is sufficiently weakened and send in Heracross to Swords Dance and sweep. Wide Lens boosts the accuracy of both Megahorn and Stone Edge, to help avoid a costly miss.</p>

<p>You can also utilize Flame Orb to boost your attack to astronomical levels, and beat many of Heracross' usual counters. With Swords Dance and Flame Orb, Heracross' Attack Heracross' Attack will have effectively tripled, giving it a stat of roughly 1149 or 1047, depending on your nature. Thanks to Flame Orb, Heracross has a deadly new weapon in Facade, which OHKOes Gyarados (with Intimidate factored in), Gliscor, and Weezing. Hippowdon, Bronzong, and Skarmory are OHKOed by Close Combat after a Swords Dance, and every single Psychic-type in the game is OHKOed by Megahorn. Don't expect this Heracross to survive too long, as it loses 12.5% of its health every turn, and 18.75% in Hail or Sandstorm conditions. Since Heracross can effectively use Flame Orb to give its attack a 50% boost, Life Orb's 30% boost and 2.5% less damage taken each turn makes it a lesser option(Okay wording?).</p>

<p>Heracross is not too swift, so paralysis support or a Baton Passed Agility would be welcome to make full use of this set.</p>

[SET]
name: Sub Salac
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Megahorn
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Substitute
item: Salac Berry
ability: Swarm
evs: 252 Atk / 32 Def / 224 Spe
ivs: 30 HP

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>More fun with Swords Dance here, but with Substitute and Salac Berry to increase your chances of plowing through an opponent's team. Substitute protects against potentially fatal attacks and drops Heracross's HP, activating Salac Berry and Swarm. Hopefully you had the chance to set up a Swords Dance along the way, as you can now sweep with Megahorn, taking out Flying-types that get in the way with Stone Edge.</p>

<p>With a 30 HP IV and no EVs in HP, Salac activates after three Substitutes, allowing Heracross to get in a few hits before dying from the effects of sandstorm or hail. The 32 EVs in Defense make sure that an Earthquake from a 0 Atk Gliscor will never break Heracross's Substitute.(Okay wording?)</p>

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Megahorn
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 96 SpD / 160 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Bulk Up Heracross is not as immediately threatening as the Sword Dance or Choice Band varieties, but in the proper hands can be a powerful sweeper that is difficult to stop. With the proper EV investment, Heracross's respectable base HP and Special Defense allow it to set up on quite a few popular special attackers in the metagame such as Gengar or Starmie. The vulnerability of Heracross on the Defense side is patched up with Bulk Up while simultaneously raising Heracross's already impressive Attack to collosal levels. Couple this with Rest, which activates Guts, and Heracross becomes quite a potent threat to any unprepared team.</p>

<p>One of the primary advantages of using a Bulk Up set as opposed to a more offensive set is that Heracross can now beat many of its counters and is more difficult to revenge kill. Should a defensive Gliscor switch into a Bulk Up, Heracross can then actually set up on Gliscor since after two Bulk Ups Gliscor's Aerial Ace only manages to do 43% - 52%, never a 2HKO with Leftovers. The standard 80 SpA EV Weezing will also never 2HKO Heracross with Fire Blast, allowing it to effectively set up on another of its so-called counters. Heracross also becomes much more difficult to revenge kill when using this set, due to the more defensive style. For example, Heat Wave from Life Orb Zapdos will never OHKO while Heracross does with Megahorn after a Bulk Up and Stealth Rock, while sleeping. A significant drawback to this Heracross is that you instantly lose to Heatran with it. To resolve this problem, pairing this with a Choice Scarf Dugtrio to remove the threat of Heatran entirely isn't a bad choice.</p>

<p>The given EVs are designed to give Heracross the best defensive capabilities possible while still outrunning Jolly Tyranitar, and those that aim to outspeed it by 1 point. Switching to a Careful nature is also viable to allow Heracross to set up on an even wider range of Special Attackers; however, Adamant is usually the superior choice because of the greater attacking power. While not recommended, if a Fighting attack is more appealing, Brick Break is usable over Megahorn. If using Brick Break, be sure to pair Heracross with a Pursuiter to eliminate Ghost-types, who will wall you otherwise.</p>

[SET]
name: Sleep Talk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Megahorn
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 204 HP / 146 Atk / 160 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A sturdier version of Heracross and a good choice for absorbing sleep, particularly from Grass-types. Rest also activates Guts, so this Heracross, while asleep, has power comparable to the Choice Bander. Megahorn + Stone Edge is good type coverage when only using two attacks, although you can use Close Combat over either attack so you are not stuck against the likes of Magnezone or Skarmory. Bear in mind, however, that Close Combat reduces Heracross' defenses with each use and goes against the general idea of this set somewhat. Leftovers is generally recommended for more staying power, but Life Orb is also an option for that little extra kick; you can recover any lost HP with Rest, anyway.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Aerial Ace takes down other Heracross. Earthquake isn't much use on Heracross, aside from hurting the rare Nidoqueen, but it's there. Counter is an interesting option which may net you a kill, but is very situational.</p>

[EVs]

<p>For the Choice Band set, a minimum of 246 Speed (Adamant, 160 EVs) to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar, defensive Zapdos, Celebi, and Jirachi is recommended. Other Speeds to aim for include 260 (Adamant, 216 EVs) to beat Adamant Medicham and Blaziken, 280 (Jolly, 196 EVs) for Adamant/Modest Lucario and Drapion, 285 (Jolly, 216 EVs) for Jolly Medicham and Blaziken, and 290 (Jolly, 232 EVs) for Adamant Electivire. Max Attack and pour any remaining EVs in HP.

Choice Scarf sets should max Attack and Speed, when using an Adamant nature. If you want to use a Jolly nature, 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe gives you enough to outspeed Naive ScarfTran by one point.

For the Sub + Salac variant of the Swords Dance set, make sure your HP is divisible by four. This is to ensure the Salac Berry will activate after three Substitutes, giving Heracross some leftover HP to survive at least one turn if Sandstorm or Hail is active.

Swords Dance sets can follow the same pattern as the Choice Bander, but Jolly is the preferred nature unless you're planning to provide him a lot of paralysis support or pass him some Speed.

Sleep Talk set can focus on HP, or use the same spread as the Choice Bander. If you're using Bulk Up, then a mere 60 HP EVs will allow Heracross to survive an Adamant Choice Banded Aerial Ace from Dugtrio after one Defense boost.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>With his massive Attack stat and high powered STAB moves, Heracross is a huge threat to any team. Several of his counters from the previous generation can be destroyed if they switch in on the wrong move. Salamence and Gyarados only had to worry about the fairly weak Rock Slide, but now they face Stone Edge with its higher base power and high critical hit chance. Skarmory gets 2HKOed by a Choice Banded Close Combat or OHKOed by the same attack after a Swords Dance and Guts boost from Flame Orb.

However, Heracross is not the top tier sweeper it once was. Many other sweepers such as Lucario and Gallade can get by their counters much easier, while the abundance of faster sweepers such as Azelf leaves Heracross skating the line between champion and revengeful runner-up. Nevertheless, Heracross is a fearsome physical threat.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Gliscor is the best counter around. High Defense, resistant to both STAB moves and neutral to Rock and Dark. He has higher base Speed than Heracross so he can use Roost to heal and buy him a resistance to Stone Edge. STAB Aerial Ace has no problem bringing down Heracross. You must watch out for Toxic though from Scarf Heracross, because it won't take long to bring down the mud bat.</p>

<p>Like Gliscor, Weezing also resists both STAB attacks and has the Defense to handle Stone Edges. Flamethrower or Fire Blast can 2HKO Heracross. Make sure you don't burn Heracross with Will-O-Wisp though.
Fire Punch Dusknoir is also a good choice thanks to his Fighting immunity and Bug resistance. The Rotom formes can also work in a similar vain, though Rotom-H and Rotom-S are most notable for having access to Overheat and Air Slash, respectively. Like with Weezing and Dusknoir, be sure to avoid burning Heracross.</p>

<p>Although Stone Edge has the potential to KO them both, Salamence and Gyarados provide good coverage against Heracross. Intimidate and resistance to Close Combat and Megahorn help them switch in. Gyarados requires Waterfall to 2HKO, while Salamence can bring him down with a Life Orb Fire Blast or Outrage or a Choice Specs Draco Meteor.</p>

<p>Nidoqueen with Aerial Ace works well thanks to her resistances to everything (save Pursuit and Night Slash) Heracross normally carries. Nidoking and Toxicroak also have the appropriate resistances, but their lower defenses and lack of a solid Flying attack make them rather shaky switch-ins against the Choice Band set. A defensive Hitmontop with Intimidate and Aerial Ace can switch into anything apart from CB Close Combat. More attack minded sets can bring down Heracross with a combination of Fake Out and Bullet Punch.</p>

<p>Jirachi can survive any of the attacks on the Choice Band set and use Zen Headbutt to kill off Heracross. It won't OHKO without significant EV investment, but if you make Jirachi faster he can grab some luck with the flinch rate of Zen Headbutt. Switching into a Close Combat allows for a OHKO when factoring in the Defense drop. Metagross works in a similar way, but will require a Choice Scarf to ensure he is faster than Heracross.</p>

<p>Although it risks a Choice Band Close Combat, Skarmory can counter every other form of Heracross with its massive base 140 Defense and STABed Flying-type moves to dispose of Heracross.</p>

<p>Dugtrio gets a mention for his ability to trap and kill with Aerial Ace, but can only safely switch into Stone Edge.</p>

Please tell me if the Sleep Talk set should be removed. Never worked when I used it, Machamp is way better. The Reversal set doesn't really work either, and Lucario argueably outclasses it with better speed and immunity to sandstorm, most notably.
 
The few defense EVs make sure no-attack Gliscor can't break your Substitutes with Earthquake.

A no-attack Gliscor would mean that it wouldn't have EQ :p But I get your point. Maybe you could say it as:

The few defense EVs make sure that mono-attacking Gliscor will not break your Substitutes.

I have honestly never played with Heracross, so I won't say much about the sets.
 
Link to the pokemon in question.

Use serial commas in lists of 3 or more.

The last sentence in question sounds funny, and ExplorerAce's edit sounds just as odd. Try something like, "The 32 EVs in Defense make sure that an Earthquake from a 0 Atk Gliscor will never break Heracross's Substitute."

Use American spellings of words. The only one that stuck out was "orientated" which should be "oriented". in the Swords Dance set.
 
could you add the bulk up rest sleep talk set back in please? It allows Heracross to counter his "counters" such as gliscor. it definitely deserves mention.
 
Now that this is being redone, I always thought the bug of choice set should have more speed. At least 192 speed ev's for 254 speed to outrun modest heatran. After the mass influx of scarftrans, modest actually isn't that uncommon right now. And after all, isn't heatran definitely something you want to be outspeeding if you can? And it's only 32 more ev's.
 
Fixed what I could. Added Bulk Up set, and am looking for a better example for the second paragraph. Still looking for opinons on the other Sleep Talk set, and the Reversal set.

A lot of this I just copy and pasted from the existing page, including the part that said "orientated". Just letting you know. I realized there wasn't a period at the end of one of the sentences from the analysis page, fixed that.

I already bumped up the speed to 246, which is usually enough for me. Only 35% of Heatran are modest, many only run 216 Speed which you outspeed with just the 8 EVs I added. Most other Modest are probably Scarfed.
 
I think Sleep Talk should be removed from the Choice set. Since sleep inducers are far less common in Platinum, Sleep Talk is of little use, not to mention that failing after its first use also makes it a rather inferior option to Night Slash and Pursuit, which you will need to hit Dusknoir and the Rotom formes. Just remove it from the moveslots and leave it in the set comments as another option, though again you should mention what I have written above.
 
I have to agree with KD24 on the Bulk Up Restalk set. Anyways, grammar nitpicks.

Set: CB Hera

Don't expect this to last long however, because burn or Toxic damage will wear him out quickly.
Toxic is a move, hence capitalization

Set: CS Hera

Choice Scarf Heracross is still a potent threat. He outspeeds almost everything — aside from other Choice Scarf users
but the Choice Scarf variant doesn't have the firepower to take on his more troublesome counters, such as Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Dusknoir.
his > its, since the rest of the analysis refers to Hera in the masculine

Although an Adamant nature provides significantly more power, with a Jolly nature you outspeed Naive Scarf Heatran. In that case you might want to reallocate some speed EVs into your Hit Points.
Listing an EV spread that does this: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe. Gets the drop on +Speed Heatran by a point, rest into HP. Just mention it in the set comments.

Swords Dancer

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Megahorn
move 3: Close Combat
This is a simple premise, really; just wait until your opponent's team is sufficiently weakened and send in Heracross to Swords Dance and sweep
With Swords Dance and Flame Orb, Heracross' Attack Heracross' Attack will have effectively tripled, giving it a stat of roughly 1149 or 1047, depending on your nature.
The bolded part is listed twice

Don't expect this Heracross to survive too long, as he loses 12.5% of its health every turn
Gender inconsistencies

Since Heracross can effectively use Flame Orb to give its attack a 50% boost, Life Orb's 30% boost and 2.5% less damage taken each turn makes it a lesser option(Okay wording?).
maybe change this to

Life Orb's 30% boost to Heracross' Attack pales in comparison to Flame Orb's 50% boost; as such Life Orb is a lesser option. Life Orb does have a lower recoil percentage (10%, compared to Flame Orb's 12.5%), but the extra power awarded by Flame Orb is just too tempting to pass.
[SET]
name: Sub Salac
move 1: Swords Dance
The few defense EVs make sure no-attack Gliscor can't break your Substitutes with Earthquake(Okay wording?)
perhaps change this to:

By adding a few Defense EVs, a Gliscor with no Attack investment will be unable to break Heracross' Substitutes with Earthquake.
[EVs]

<p>For the Choice Band set, a minimum of 246 Speed (Adamant, 160 EVs) to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar, defensive Zapdos, Celebi, and Jirachi is recommended. Other Speeds to aim for include 260 (Adamant, 216 EVs) to beat Adamant Medicham and Blaziken, 280 (Jolly, 196 EVs) for Adamant/Modest Lucario and Drapion, 285 (Jolly, 216 EVs) for Jolly Medicham and Blaziken, and 290 (Jolly, 232 EVs) for Adamant Electivire. Max Attack and pour any remaining EVs in HP.</p>

<p>For the Sub + Salac variant of the Swords Dance set, make sure your HP is divisible by four. This is to ensure the Salac Berry will activate after three Substitutes, giving Heracross some leftover HP to survive at least one turn if sandstorm or hail is active.</p>

<p>Swords Dance sets can follow the same pattern as the Choice Bander, but Jolly is the preferred nature unless you're planning to provide him a lot of paralysis support or pass him some Speed.</p>
Also I was wondering if Max Speed is needed on CS Hera? I know 405 Speed was the old metagame standard, but now the Speed to beat is 417 (CS Heatran). On my CS Hera I use Adamant 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Speed, which lets it beat +Speed base 130's by a point. Admittedly not major, but a suggestion regardless.

Set: Bulk Up
If using Brick Break, be sure to pair Heracross with a Pursuiter to eliminate Ghost-types, who will wall you otherwise.
 
Honestly, I'd put Choice Scarf ahead of CBHera. From my experience, a lot more people use Choice Scarf Heracross than Band these days because:

a) CBHera is way too slow and is eaten alive by a lot of faster sweepers, such as SD Lucario, ScarfTran, Starmie, Latias, Infernape, etc.
b) CS is a good check to Latias
c) revenge-killing a lot of the faster threats such as Starmie
d) it's also the most common set in ubers

It's honestly been ages since I've seen a CBHera, so I don't believe that it's the most popular set anymore.
 
Should be 96 instead of 94 EVs on Bug of Choice but I think you should be beating Modest Heatran regardless.

Life Orb should have priority over Wide Lens on the Swords Dance set. In fact, Wide Lens should be reduced to a mention in the set analysis IMO. Also, the last sentence of said set ("Since Heracross ... less option.") is poorly worded and superfluous and should be removed.
 
With the proper EV investment, Heracross's respectable base HP and Special Defense allow it to set up on quite a few popular special attackers in the metagame such as Gengar or defensive Zapdos (be careful with Pressure though!).
Zapdos has a 100 base power SE Heat Wave now. Not going to happen.

Life Orb should have priority over Wide Lens on the Swords Dance set. In fact, Wide Lens should be reduced to a mention in the set analysis IMO. Also, the last sentence of said set ("Since Heracross ... less option.") is poorly worded and superfluous and should be removed.

Flame Orb is better than Life Orb for reasons mentioned in the analysis and Wide Lens isn't really outclassed by everything. Flame Orb and Facade should be the primary options on the set, Wide Lens / Stone Edge secondary.
 
i dont think sleep talk choice hera is even worth it because you only get one attack and its not likely that it will be the correct one... probably better off having night slash or toxic. night slash to hit rotom form hard and toxic can help wear down counters.
 
Where's the standard Sleep Talk set gone?

[SET]
name: Sleep Talk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Megahorn
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 204 HP / 152 Atk / 152 Spe

I use this set now and then and I always found it was one of the best Heracross sets that I have used...

Otherwise, looking pretty good to me.
 
Removed Sleep Talk. Changed the part saying you can set up on Zapdos to Starmie. Going by Doug's statistic, I put Choice Scarf first as Bologo said.

Also finished the EV section, Opinion, and Counters section.

I suppose I can add the standard sleep talk set now.

EDIT: Added. What exactly were the EVs for with that set? I'm tempted to just max my HP, or find a different number.
 
204 HP for maximum leftovers recovery.
152 Spe for 244 Speed, beating Jolly Tyranitar.
Rest goes into Attack for general power.
 
"Choice" is in reference to the item and popularity of this Heracross set.

This was originally on the Choice Band set for two reasons. Because that Heracross set was popular and the set was called "Bug of Choice." Neither of those statements are really true anymore (Heracross isn't exactly "popular") so I would support changing the CB set to be called simple "Choice Band" and removing that sentence from the Scarf set.

I think it might be worth mentioning Guts on the Scarf set, as it is arguably more useful on that set than the Choice Band set. I would also want Wide lens removed from the Swords Dance set, I mean it doesn't really help that much, it is not commonly used (see Dougs statistics) and the drop in power is probably undesirable (although it could be argued that you have enough already, the main premise of the set is to do as much as possible) I would simply drop it to set comments.

With a 30 HP IV and no EVs in HP,

A bit messy, could it be more simply "With a 0 IV and no EVs in HP,"
For example, Heat Wave from Life Orb Zapdos will never OHKO while Heracross does with Megahorn after a Bulk Up and Stealth Rock, while sleeping.

This seems a little farfetched, theres no way you can guarentee you will be sleeping when Zapdos comes out, it might be simpler to say "Heracross can hit it back hard, possibly OHKOing if it has enough boosts." (That way boosts can apply to Bulk Ups or Guts boost)

Earthquake also hits Metagross harder than Close Combat, which might be worth adding to other options. Could be possibly mention Brick Break in Other Options, it's different enough without the recoil. I also think EndRev Cross deserves to be in Other Options, although it doesn't work as well as the other sets, it is a viable option. Mention of Shadow Claw + Close Combat combination in Other Options, although Bug / Rock is generally preferable due to Swarm, Fighting Ghost is unresisted and provides way better enutral coverage.

You need <p> </p> tags foe every paragraph in the Evs section. The same goes for the opinion section.

<p>Like Gliscor, Weezing also resists both STAB attacks and has the Defense to handle Stone Edges. Flamethrower or Fire Blast can 2HKO Heracross. Make sure you don't burn Heracross with Will-O-Wisp though.
Fire Punch Dusknoir is also a good choice thanks to his Fighting immunity and Bug resistance. The Rotom formes can also work in a similar vain, though Rotom-H and Rotom-S are most notable for having access to Overheat and Air Slash, respectively. Like with Weezing and Dusknoir, be sure to avoid burning Heracross.</p>

This needs either a new paragraph, or joining the paragraph up, it seems to be hovering halfway in-between at the moment ^_^
 
On MoPCross, I do think that Close Combat is worth a mention alongside Stone Edge as a secondary attack. Stone Edge is helping against Gyarados, Zapdos, Gengar and Salamence I guess, but Close Combat stops you being walled by several other notable Pokemon, such as Heatran, Magnezone, Skarmory, Machamp and most importantly Lucario.
 
I don't really see that many changes to the set comments, the only thing about the old analysis that was particularly outdated / would require a "full revamp"...

The CB description implies that Skarmory doesn't counter CB Heracross, when on teams with Skarmory (stall teams) they usually pack a Fighting resist anyway and he can wall the rest of the moveset... I think the bit is a little outdated as he couldn't "safely" come in on Heracross in Advance as Focus Punch did a respectable amount of damage.
 
The changes be implemented here are small things like removing mentions of Garchomp, updating EV spreads slightly and it doesn't require an entire revamp to be quite honest. While the analysis was written in early DP; Heracross hasn't changed significantly enough to require a full rewrite and most of these issues could be brought up in the Small Subjective Changes thread in C&C.

That said, this threads purpose has been largely fulfilled and I'll be making the changes that the OP has addressed (although I'm not combining the SD / Flame Orb sets because they play quite differently) later tonight (i.e. don't expect to see the changes on-site till sometime tomorrow probably).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top