DP Sunflora

Havak

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So yeh, I felt as if the Sunflora page was rather poor, and lacking. And I've been using Sunflora a bit recently (albiet on Wi-Fi) so I thought I'd give it a shot. It's a whole revamp, so make of it what you will, all comments welcome. :)

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/sunflora

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[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: SolarBeam
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Focus Sash / Heat Rock
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Sunflora is usually outclassed by most other Chlorophyll Pokémon, such as Exeggutor and Tangrowth in BL, along with Vileplume and Bellossom in UU (though Sunflora can boast a higher Special Attack stat). But in NU, Sunflora can shine even with its lacklustre Speed. The strategy is to simply set up Sunny Day as soon as possible, doubling your Speed and allowing you to put dents in your opponent with STAB SolarBeam and boosted Hidden Power Fire. Sludge Bomb allows you to hit Fire-types for neutral damage.</p>

<p>The choice of item depends on whether you prefer being able to take any hit and set up Sunny Day, or be confident of taking a light hit or forcing a switch from your opponent to utilize Sunny Day for eight turns with Heat Rock. Life Orb is also a nice item if you’d prefer some extra power, though with Sunflora’s below average defenses it could be risky.</p>

<p>Sunflora needs all the Speed it can get, so it’s advised that you run max Speed even though you’ll be doubling it. The Modest nature will allow you to beat 95 base Speed Pokémon with a boosting nature and provide more offensive power, while Timid will allow you to out-pace base 105 Speed Pokémon with a boosting nature.</p>

[SET]
name: Solar Power
move 1: Leaf Storm / SolarBeam
move 2: Energy Ball / Grass Knot
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Choice Specs / Leftovers
ability: Solar Power
nature: Modest
evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 10 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Solar Power is a neat ability; Sunflora already has a rather impressive Special Attack stat, so being able to boost it a further 50% in the sun is much appreciated. Sunflora can become ridiculously strong if you manage to set up Sunny Day with another team member and have Choice Specs equipped, as Sunflora’s Special Attack will reach a massive 762 (508 with one of the two). Setting up Sunny Day with Sunflora on this set isn’t advised, as it means Choice Specs becomes almost unusable as the item. Sunflora’s low Speed also means a counter would most likely be switched in on the set up turn, which you would fail to out-speed without Chlorophyll. If you’re using this set with Sunny Day expected to be in play, then SolarBeam is a usage option, but Leaf Storm might be more reliable in the long run even though you have Energy Ball (or Grass Knot) as an alternative anyway, albeit a much weaker one.</p>

<p>Leftovers is an option for the item if you’d prefer to be able to switch attacks freely, but with Sunflora’s Speed you’ll find yourself playing hit-and-run the majority of the time so the extra power from Choice Specs is usually more beneficial. Life Orb is again viable, especially since you could be switching in and out a lot so probably won’t be taking hits from other Pokémon much, although entry hazards are always a worry. Sunflora can’t out-speed much at all, so making it more bulky with a healthy HP investment is the way to go. Note that if you’re using Life Orb, you may want to make sure your HP stat ends in a nine so you can have potentially 11 uses of Life Orb. 10 Speed EVs will allow you to out-run other 30 base Speed Pokémon that use 4 Speed EVs.</p>

<p>It should also be noted that with Solar Power, it’s viable to run a Quiet nature with a 0 Speed IV and 252 HP / 252 SpA / 6 SpD EVs for use on a Trick Room team. If you can manage to set up Sunny Day and Trick Room with another Pokémon, Sunflora will be out-speeding almost everything and inflict insane amounts of damage from its 508 (or 762) Special Attack stat.</p>

[SET]
name: Sub Seed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Energy Ball / Grass Knot
move 4: Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Fire
item: Leftovers
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Sunflora can just about pull off a Sub-Seed set in NU, while its defenses are below average for the most part, in NU they might be able to stand up against some weaker attacks from more defensive Pokémon. The Speed issue here is again problematic, but if you can have Sunny Day in effect you’ll be able to Substitute quickly before being hit, allowing you to whittle away at your opponents HP with Leech Seed. You’ll need a more reliable Grass-type attack for this move-set, so Energy Ball (or Grass Knot) is advised. Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Fire are the choices when it comes to hitting other Grass-types. Sludge Bomb will mean Steel-types are an issue for the set, while Hidden Power Fire allows other Fire-types to have an easier time; both types can be stalled for a while with Leech Seed and Substitute, however.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>GrassWhistle would be your best bet at taking out a sure counter to Sunflora, but its accuracy is incredibly poor; Toxic is always useful and Sunflora’s only other status move worthy of a mention. Synthesis can be good on any move-set, especially if Sunny Day is in play. Growth will allow you to increase your already high Special Attack, but taking a turn to set up without Sunny Day in play is often a wasted turn with Sunflora. Hidden Power Ice is the only other special attack worth mentioning, to hit Flying-types harder. Protect can be used to stall more with Leech Seed, and Light Screen is Sunflora’s only other worthy support option; though Encore can help setting-up another sweeper easier. A physical Sunflora would be pushing it a bit, but Sunflora does get Swords Dance and Curse; although the only notable physical moves are Seed Bomb and Double-Edge (along with Return/Frustration). Choice Scarf is a workable item, but generally inferior to other items as Sunflora really needs to double its Speed to be effective.</p>

[EVs]
<p>Sunflora will generally want max Speed to even have a chance at out-speeding most NU Pokémon with Chlorophyll activated. You’ll reach 318 Speed with a Modest nature if Sunny Day is in play, which allows you to beat base 95 Speed Pokémon with a boosting nature; such as Plusle, Minun and Pachirisu. If you opt for Timid, base 105 Speed Pokémon with a boosting nature will be out-sped if the scenario is the same. There aren’t actually many base 105 Speed Pokémon in NU however, bar Lopunny. So if you choose the Timid nature, it’s safe to lower your Speed EVs to 216 (165 stat) and still out-speed base 100 Speed Pokémon with a boosting nature; such as Fearow.</p>

<p>On the Solar Power set, it’s perfectly fine to play the speed game with some Pokémon that are close to Sunflora’s Speed in NU as you can't rely on Chlorophyll. Parasect, Bastiodon and Magcargo all have base 30 Speed, two of those often use just 4 Speed EVs, so using 8 Speed EVs to out-speed them can be beneficial. Quagsire and Corsola have 35 base Speed, while all forms of Wormadam have 36 base Speed. Quagsire generally never run Speed EVs, while the other four usually just run the usual 4 Speed EVs. So running 56 Speed EVs with the Modest nature will give you a 110 Speed stat, effectively out-speeding all of the above. If there’s anything faster you feel is worth out-speeding then go for it, but the only other thing worth out-speeding is Kecleon which would need 84 Speed EVs (117 stat), and that has high Special Defense. Though if you can hit it with your Grass-type move first, Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Fire would be come super-effective thanks to Color Change. Once you feel your have adequate Special Attack and Speed, any remaining EVs should be placed in HP.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Sunflora is a cool Pokémon, with okay stats for the most part, especially Special Attack. Being able to boast a 762 Special Attack stat with Choice Specs and Sunny Day active is a big statement, and also having the ability to double its Speed and still have 339 Special Attack is still deadly in NU. But sadly, that 30 base Speed really limits Sunflora, so it’s only really usable in NU (and at a stretch UU), or not at all.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Flareon can easily come in on any attack thanks to its high Special Defense, it’ll also benefit from Sunny Day and have lots of fun if it manages to switch in on Hidden Power Fire. Castform can switch in rather easily as it will become a Fire-type with Sunny Day in play, resisting two of Sunflora’s attacks and KOing with Weather Ball. Fearow will be able to revenge kill any none Timid Sunflora with ease thanks to its higher Speed and STAB physical moves. Swalot has a huge HP stat and can only really be threatened by Hidden Power Fire, Swalot will KO easily with Poison-type attacks. Golduck, although a Water-type, has the ability Cloud Nine which will disable weather effects. Thus Golduck can prevent SolarBeam from firing in one turn, and disable Sunflora with Hypnosis. Golduck could also use Substitute on the turn SolarBeam hits to avoid taking major damage, then attack with Ice Beam or utilize Calm Mind. Without Sunny Day in play, Sunflora generally isn’t much of a threat at all and will be dealt with by any faster physical attacker that can manage to switch in on a not very effective attack; or any Pokémon with good Special Defense and enough power to KO with a STAB attack.</p>
 
Yay Sunflora :D

Only thing I noted on my first "run through" was "Sunny day", where it should be Sunny Day. In the first paragraph of Solar Power, to make it easier :P

Good rewrite, Sunflora really is the sex.
 
If you're looking to put any OU pokemon in the counters section, Heatran comes to mind, though Sunflora is almost never used in OU... In a quick run through I didn't see any nitpicks, nice job :)
 
Thanks, but I was trying to avoid listing OU, and even UU counters in the analysis. But if more people would like to see some UU counters listed I'd be happy to add more to that section, as NU isn't even ready yet.
 
A Sunny Day Trick Room set works wonders with Sunflora, so you should just add to a comment about it in the Solar Power set as it is pretty much the same. I would recommend using 252 HP / 252 SpA / 6 SpD, Quiet nature, and a 0 Speed IV. On a Sunny Day Trick Room Team or even with out the Sun it can still wreck havoc (even somewhat on Suspect Test aka OU).
 
I think if you used Sunny Day Trick Room surely you would need Trick Room support, at least I know I wouldnt want Sunny Day and Trick Room on the set (and the fact it doesn't learn Trick Room lol..), so IMO that should be mentioned under other options. Something like "Sunflora also has a moderate chance to sweep in NU under Trick Room, although be sure to use a Quiet nature." or something.
 
I think if you used Sunny Day Trick Room surely you would need Trick Room support, at least I know I wouldnt want Sunny Day and Trick Room on the set (and the fact it doesn't learn Trick Room lol..), so IMO that should be mentioned under other options. Something like "Sunflora also has a moderate chance to sweep in NU under Trick Room, although be sure to use a Quiet nature." or something.

It has more of a moderate chance since I've sweeped a couple of teams on WiFi using TR Sunflora, it's no joke. It should be worded more differently to state the power it actually would have in NU (not UU, but NU).
 
Adding this:

It should also be noted that with Solar Power, it’s viable to run a Quiet nature with a 0 Speed IV and 252 HP / 252 SpA / 6 SpD EVs for use on a Trick Room team. If you can manage to set up Sunny Day and Trick Room with another Pokémon, Sunflora will be out-speeding almost everything and inflict insane amounts of damage from its 508 (or 678) Special Attack stat.
 
from its 508 (or 678) Special Attack stat.
I am pretty sure that these stats boosts work like so:
339x1.5(Solar Power)=508
508x1.5(Choice Specs)=762

So its SpA is 84 higher that you stated.
 
Golduck should get mention in the counters section, it really screws up Sunflora if used correctly. Cloud Nine completely negates Sunny Day and in turn, 1 turn solarbeam. So you switch intoa sunflora and instead of it nailing you with solarbeam, it automatically takes the time to recharge. You also resist Hidden Power Fire. Ice Beam or Hypnosis will easily take Sunflora down (substitute also screws with Solarbeam)
 
I'd list counters by tier, personally. Makes it much easier to find the information you're looking for.
 
I think we need a new policy on the "counters" section of analyses...

Probably something like: "Each Pokémon should have potential counters listed for the tier it's in and each tier above. (Discounting BL's, while Uber viable Pokémon could have an Ubers counter section)."

Would that make sense at all?

At the moment that Sunflora edit has basically counters I predict to be NU from the looks of things (and they're all NU in the latest statistics). They can obviously be edited once the tiers are fully sorted, but that could be a while. Though really, the majority of counters sections need improving for UU's and lower, probably a lot of BLs too.
 
After checking This part of the Damage Formula I am convinced that stat multipliers work in the way I stated:
The [Sp said:
Attack Formula][Sp]Atk = Stat × SM × AM × IM
Solar Power is an AM boost of x1.5.
Choice Specs is a IM boost of x1.5.
1.5x1.5 does not equal 2.

You see now?

You must be confused with the stat boosts moves like Sword Dance and Nasty Plot provide, which would stack in the way you suggested.
Item and Ability boost are different.
 
this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

don't delete site doesn't represent comon Havak you really need to be more vigilant with your whole analysis revamps lol
 
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