DP Salamence

Aldaron

Aldaron

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My favorite set. I made the peer edit with three sets but that topic was closed and I don't use the Toxic set anymore, so I'm just going to repost these two. Cutting down on the description as well. After significantly more testing, I also decided that Life Orb on the physical set wasn't necessary, so I reduced it to a secondary option.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence

[SET]
name: S. Bulky DD Roost
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Roost
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Earthquake
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 172 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 80 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set takes advantage of Dragon Dance and Roost to give the team a Pokemon that can switch into most Special Attacks while simultaneously possess the ability to sweep. Dragon Claw and Earthquake are chosen for coverage, as only Skarmory and Bronzong resist the two.</p>

<p>Life Orb or Leftovers is a decision based on which goal is emphasized: sweeping or Special Defense? If sweeping is the primary focus, then choose Life Orb and keep the EVs as they are. These specific EVs allow Salamence to take a 269 Special Attack non STAB Ice Beam (along with a 359 Special Attack non STAB Hidden Power Ice) for less than 90% and hit back with a Dragon Dance + Life Orb boosted attack. If the attack didn't OHKO the opposition, Salamence can then Roost back up to above 10% health, as it will take half damage from the Ice attack, and then it can finish off the weakened opponent.</p>

</p>If Special Defense and Leftovers recovery are desired, then changing the EVs and Nature is necessary. 252 HP / 172 SpD / 80 Spe with a Careful nature yields 394 HP / 264 SpD / 256 Spe. This set up is approximately 10% bulkier on the Special side and 5% bulkier on the Physical side. Most importantly, Leftovers increases its survivability immensely, by reducing the omnipresent Sandstream's effect on Salamence, reducing Stealth Rock's residual effect and increasing general healing capacity.</p>

<p>256 Speed is reached with both items to always outspeed Weavile and Modest Choice Scarf Heatran after one Dragon Dance and Deoxys-S after two Dragon Dances.</p>

[SET]
name: P. Bulky DD Roost
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Roost
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Earthquake
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set uses Intimidate and Roost to be able to switch into extremely common physical threats, like Choice Band Heracross and Swords Dance Lucario, repeatedly. Dragon Dance allows Salamence to outspeed Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross and Timid Choice Scarf Heatran after one use, and Dragon Claw + Earthquake provide coverage resisted only by Skarmory and Bronzong.</p>

<p>The defensive EVs allow Salamence to take 45% maximum from a Choice Scarf Heracross, meaning Salamence can switch in and Dragon Dance and be at 22.5% health minimum, enough to allow Roost to take Salamence above 45% after Heracross' following weakened Stone Edge. An Adamant Lucario's Swords Dance Extremespeed will also never 2HKO this setup, so Salamence can easily switch in and deal with that accordingly. 280 Speed is necessary due to a large majority of physical threats falling in between the 269 -279 Speed range, such as Heracross and Lucario.</p>

<p>Salamence can run a much bulkier set if desired. 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe and an Impish nature allow Salamence to reach 394 HP / 264 Def / 256 Spe. This set up is 10% bulkier than the previous one, and it still allows Salamence to outspeed Weavile and Modest Choice Scarf Heatran after one Dragon Dance and Deoxys-S after two Dragon Dances.</p>

<p>Leftovers is preferred on this physically defensive versions primarily because it will be expected to repeatedly switch into physical attacks. However, if some extra power is desired, running Life Orb with an Adamant nature and 256 Speed is a possibility, just be aware that repeatedly switching into the likes of Heracross and Lucario will no longer be a possibility.</p>
 
[SET]
name: S. Bulky DD Roost
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Roost
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Earthquake
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 172 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 80 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set takes advantage of Dragon Dance and Roost, giving the team a Pokemon that can switch into most Special Attacks while simultaneously possessing the ability to sweep. Dragon Claw and Earthquake are chosen for coverage, as only Skarmory and Bronzong resist the two.</p>

<p>Life Orb or Leftovers is a decision based on which goal is emphasized: sweeping or utilizing Special Defense? If sweeping is the primary focus, choose Life Orb and keep the EVs as they are. These specific EVs allow Salamence to take a 269 Special Attack non STAB Ice Beam (along with a 359 Special Attack non STAB Hidden Power Ice) for less than 90% and hit back with a Dragon Dance + Life Orb boosted attack. If the attack didn't OHKO the opposition, Salamence can then Roost back up to above 10% health, as it will take half damage from the Ice attack, and then finishing off the weakened opponent.</p>

</p>If Special Defense and Leftovers recovery are desired, then changing the EVs and Nature is necessary. 252 HP / 172 SpD / 80 Spe with a Careful nature yields 394 HP / 264 SpD / 256 Spe. This set up is approximately 10% bulkier on the Special side and 5% bulkier on the Physical side. Most importantly, Leftovers increases its survivability immensely, by reducing the omnipresent Sandstorm's effect on Salamence, reducing Stealth Rock's residual effect and increasing general healing capacity.</p>

<p>256 Speed is reached to always outspeed Weavile and Modest Choice Scarf Heatran after one Dragon Dance and Deoxys-S after two Dragon Dances.</p>
Click to expand...

Sandstorm not Sandstream.
Obviously both items dont affect speed so no need to mention that.
Special Defense isnt a style of play. You can utilize it though to absorb big hits.
Fixed a few other issues.

[SET]
name: P. Bulky DD Roost
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Roost
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Earthquake
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set uses Intimidate and Roost to be able to switch into extremely common physical threats, such as Choice Band Heracross and Swords Dance Lucario, repeatedly. Dragon Dance allows Salamence to outspeed Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross and Timid Choice Scarf Heatran after one use, and Dragon Claw + Earthquake provide coverage resisted only by Skarmory and Bronzong.</p>

<p>The defensive EVs allow Salamence to take 45% maximum from a Choice Scarf Heracross, meaning Salamence can switch in and Dragon Dance and be at 22.5% health minimum, enough to allow Roost to take Salamence above 45% after Heracross' following weakened Stone Edge. An Adamant Lucario's Swords Dance Extremespeed will also never 2HKO this setup, so Salamence can easily switch in and deal with that accordingly. 280 Speed is necessary due to a large majority of physical threats falling in between the 269 -279 Speed range, such as Heracross and Lucario.</p>

<p>Salamence can run a much bulkier set if desired. 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe and an Impish nature allow Salamence to reach 394 HP / 264 Def / 256 Spe. This set up is 10% bulkier than the previous one, and it still allows Salamence to outspeed Weavile and Modest Choice Scarf Heatran after one Dragon Dance and Deoxys-S after two Dragon Dances.</p>

<p>Leftovers is preferred on this physically defensive versions primarily because it will be expected to repeatedly switch into physical attacks. However, if some extra power is desired, running Life Orb with an Adamant nature and 256 Speed is a possibility, just be aware that repeatedly switching into the likes of Heracross and Lucario will no longer be a possibility.</p>
Click to expand...

This one is good but I will be sure to look over it again. Fixed 1 or 2 errors I saw.
 
KD24, the first sentence is good already, with your changes it is actually more awkward. Aldaron, on the third paragraph you started with </p> then ended with it as well. Make the first one into <p>.

In the second set, "269 -279" should be "269 - 279." In the same sentence you should also write how you outspeed a Adamant Lucario even though it doesn't really matter. In the last paragraph, first sentence, change "versions" to "version" or just remove "this."
 
Third paragraph seems out of place on the Physical orientated one, seeing as you actually have a bulkier spread listed in the EVs then in the paragraph.

Edit:

Disregard, I missed the nature change.
 
These two sets could probably be combined into one set, since they only really differ in EV spreads. Pick the EV spread you think is more useful and make it the main one, and just talk about the possibility of using the other one in the set comments.
 
Sorry Great Sage, but I can't do that.

The sets run completely differently. The physical one is meant to switch into physical attackers repeatedly, while the special one is meant to switch into special attackers and take them by surprise.

There may be little "on paper" difference but there is significant purpose difference.
 
Hyra said:
Third paragraph seems out of place on the Physical orientated one, seeing as you actually have a bulkier spread listed in the EVs then in the paragraph.
Click to expand...

Actually, he has the nature changed in the third paragraph, so he doesn't have to change or remove it.
 
This set takes advantage of Dragon Dance and Roost to give the team a Pokemon that can switch into most Special Attacks, while simultaneously possessing the ability to sweep. Dragon Claw and Earthquake are chosen for coverage, as only Skarmory and Bronzong resist the two.
Click to expand...
If Special Defense and Leftovers recovery are desired, then changing the EVs and nature is necessary.
Click to expand...

Dragon Dance allows Salamence to outspeed Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross and Timid Choice Scarf Heatran after one use, while Dragon Claw + Earthquake provide coverage resisted only by Skarmory and Bronzong.
Click to expand...
The defensive EVs allow Salamence to take 45% maximum from a Choice Scarf Heracross, meaning Salamence can switch in, Dragon Dance, and be at 22.5% health minimum, enough to allow Roost to take Salamence above 45% after Heracross' following weakened Stone Edge.
Click to expand...
Leftovers is preferred on the physically defensive versions primarily because it will be expected to repeatedly switch into physical attacks. However, if some extra power is desired, running Life Orb with an Adamant nature and 256 Speed is a possibility, just be aware that repeatedly switching into the likes of Heracross and Lucario will no longer be a possibility.
Click to expand...
I fixed anything that looked like it needed fixing. These sets both look pretty impressive, good job.
 
How much do you recommend using the bulkier (physically) spread? A while ago, I was using a similar spread and you strongly advised me to get to at least 280 Speed. I'm curious as to why you suggested the faster one before, and now are suggesting the slower one as well.
 
Aldaron said:
My favorite set. I made the peer edit with three sets but that topic was closed and I don't use the Toxic set anymore, so I'm just going to repost these two. Cutting down on the description as well. After significantly more testing, I also decided that Life Orb on the physical set wasn't necessary, so I reduced it to a secondary option.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence

[SET]
name: S. Bulky DD Roost
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Roost
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Earthquake
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 172 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 80 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set takes advantage of Dragon Dance and Roost to give the team a Pokemon that can switch into most Special Attacks while simultaneously possess the ability to sweep. Dragon Claw and Earthquake are chosen for coverage, as only Skarmory and Bronzong resist the two.</p>

<p>Life Orb or Leftovers is a decision based on which goal is emphasized: sweeping or Special Defense? If sweeping is the primary focus, then choose Life Orb and keep the EVs as they are. These specific EVs allow Salamence to take a 269 Special Attack non STAB Ice Beam (along with a 359 Special Attack non STAB Hidden Power Ice) for less than 90% and hit back with a Dragon Dance + Life Orb boosted attack. If the attack didn't OHKO the opposition, Salamence can then Roost back up to above 10% health, as it will take half damage from the Ice attack, and then it can finish off the weakened opponent.</p>

</p>If Special Defense and Leftovers recovery are desired, then changing the EVs and Nature is necessary. 252 HP / 172 SpD / 80 Spe with a Careful nature yields 394 HP / 264 SpD / 256 Spe. This set up is approximately 10% bulkier on the Special side and 5% bulkier on the Physical side. Most importantly, Leftovers increases its survivability immensely, by reducing the omnipresent Sandstream's effect on Salamence, reducing Stealth Rock's residual effect and increasing general healing capacity.</p>

<p>256 Speed is reached with both items to always outspeed Weavile and Modest Choice Scarf Heatran after one Dragon Dance and Deoxys-S after two Dragon Dances.</p>
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be good to mention a Dragon Fang/Draco Plate item? I believe that since you will be using Dragon Claw more often than EQ, and since you only get 10% less power from Dragon Fang/Draco Plate than Life Orb, it could also be mentioned as another possible item, that would be a happy medium between Leftovers and Life Orb.
 
[SET]
name: P. Bulky DD Roost
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Roost
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Earthquake
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
Click to expand...
When I was using a DD bulky Mence, I found it pointless to make it reach 280 Speed. Not only does it lose slight defensive capabilities, but is there any need to outspeed Lucario? Salamence switching in is enough to counter Lucario thanks to x2 resist to Fighting attacks, as well as Intimidate cutting its attack to -1 stage (even if it SD when you switch mence it, it won't stay in because it fears Fire Blast/EQ). I suggest EVing it to 254 Speed to outspeed Scarf Heatran after a Dragon Dance.

After 1 DD, with your set, it outspeeds Scarfheracross and Timid Scarf Heatran as you said, but is this necessary? Timid Scarf Heatran are very uncommon while Scarf Heracross will have a hard time taking something this bulky down, even with Stone Edge.

Jolly with 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk could work quite well, seeing as it is a lot more bulky.
Adamant with 252 HP, 184 Def, 72 Spe lets you achieve 254 Speed as well, but isn't much different compared to the your one, with the exception of slightly better firepower.

I have never used SBDD Mence so I won't comment on that.

Just my 2 cents (that I think may be useless :O)
 
Like 10% or 15% of them maybe. Crunch is way more common as it is way more useful, probably used nearly 75%+ of the time.
 
Junior said:
Like 10% or 15% of them maybe. Crunch is way more common as it is way more useful, probably used nearly 75%+ of the time.
Click to expand...

But still, does that extra defence help it survive against anything? Is it worth more to have those EVs than more speed to help it counter Lucario more effectivly?
 
You say counter, but Salamence will fall to HP Ice on the switch-in either way.
 
sorry for bumping this, but I was looking at the special absorbing set and I realized that the EVs in the description only added up to 504(the last 4 needs to go in SpD, so it would be 176 EVs).
 
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