Gen 7 Doubles OU: Diamond and Friends TR

[Ryan5374]

Hello, it's me back with another SM DOU RMT haha

Rationale for choosing each member and basic description:

The team began with the idea of Nature Power Camerupt and Tapu Bulu. These two Pokemon work together extremely well for quite a few reasons. Saying Camerupt is a strong Special Attacker would be an understatement; with a base 145 Special Attack stat as well as the ability Sheer Force and two excellent stab moves to abuse said ability with. A Pokemon with Fire/Ground coverage mostly struggles with bulky waters, and Bulu is the solution to that problem. In addition, Bulu provides Grassy terrain, giving Camerupt valuable passive recovery that it would not otherwise have, a reduction of Earthquake's power, as well as the ability for Camerupt to abuse Nature Power. In Grassy Terrain, this move becomes a Sheer Force-boosted Energy Ball that eviscerates the bulky waters that Camerupt would have struggled with. This makes it so that Bulu doesn't even have to be on the field at the beginning of a turn for the opponent's Pokemon to be hit with powerful grass moves. Furthermore, the surprise factor can be devastating, as an opponent would likely protect their water against a Tapu Bulu under Trick Room, but more likely to leave it against Camerupt. Nature Power achieves OHKOs on Swampert and Gastrodon (obviously, do I need to calc this for you?) as well as achieving massive damage on most variants of Tapu Fini.
VS bulky support variant:
(252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Tapu Fini in Grassy Terrain: 338-398 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO)
VS an uncommon max SPDEF variant for argument's sake:
(252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Fini in Grassy Terrain: 274-324 (79.6 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery)
Now, as a physically offensive Grass type, Bulu often struggles against steel and fire types. Camerupt will eviscerate steels like Celesteela, Ferrothorn, and Excadrill, as well as do plenty of damage to the ever-annoying Incineroar.

Next, the team needed a reliable Trick Room setter. It's no secret that Bronzong is well equipped for the task with z-trick room, which provides several noticable benefits. The move requires the Psychium Z, which cannot be knocked off or tricked, making Bronzong even more reliable as a trick room setter. Furthermore, Z-Trick Room bypasses taunt and has a secondary effect of increasing accuracy, which will come into play later.

After that, the team needed an offensive trick room setter, a Pokemon that can set up trick room and be threatening in it. I chose non-mega Diancie for this role, as Diamond Storm is one of the best spread moves to ever grace Doubles. Diancie's great natural bulk allows it to also be a good mixed attacker that can use the weakness policy, and its Clear Body ability allows it to ignore intimidate and hit Incineroar back hard.

Incineroar was the next member of the team, and the reason why should be obvious. Fake out and intimidate are what have made it so good on many teams, and this team is no exception.

Conkeldurr was my choice for the last slot, as it boasts a 140 attack stat in conjunction with the ability Guts. In addition, Guts provides Conkeldurr with more utility, namely an immunity to status because it wants to be burned. Because of this, it makes my team better into Amoongus, the bane of trick room, because though Camerupt is already able to punish Amoongus by being slow and hitting it hard, it can't switch into spore safely. Pivoting Camerupt into a slot that once held a burned Conkeldurr or a spore-immune Tapu Bulu is the safest play in these situations, as the opponent would have to hard read the switch in.

The sets:

Heat and Pressure (Diancie) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 52 Def / 96 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Trick Room
- Protect

Trick room setter and offensive Juggernaut all in one. Not much to see here, its bulk allows it to set up Trick Room and use Weakness Policy as an item. Its great mixed offensive stats mean it can easily run a mixed set. Diamond storm was chosen as it is Diancie's best move and one of the best spread moves in general. Moonblast was chosen to hit on the other side of the Physical-Special spectrum and as Diancie's fairy stab.

First and Foremost (Bronzong) @ Psychium Z
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Hypnosis
- Bulldoze

Utility Bronzong set, this thing's job is to set trick room and sit around supporting its team. Psychium Z and Trick Room mean it is able to use Z-Trick Room, which ignores taunt and increases Bronzong's accuracy, turning Hypnosis from well, hypnosis, into an 80% accurate move, which is the same as Stone Edge. Gyro Ball is used in conjunction with its low speed to give it some offensive presence, and it can sting weakened targets or targets weak to steel deceptively hard. Notably, it does massive damage to Tapu Lele. Bulldoze is the last move here, chosen because it allows me a way to manually activate Diancie's weakness policy. Furthermore, it is weakened by grassy terrain, meaning it will do mimimal damage to Diancie. (Gyro ball is also an option to activate Diancie's weakness policy if you like losing)

Tried and Tested (Tapu Bulu) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 120 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

This is my favorite Bulu set. It has both defensive utility with the assault vest as well as offensive presence with Grassy Terrain boosted Wood Hammers and Horn Leeches. It fits many of the prerequisites of a good Assault Vest user: It has decent natural bulk and offenses, it has a way to heal HP through Horn Leech and Grassy Terrain, and it doesn't really need its status moves. Stone Edge and Superpower are the best compliments to mono grass coverage, as they deal with flying and steel types respectively, and Superpower has the benefit of hitting Kartana and Incineroar.

Smoke and Fire (Camerupt-Mega) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Nature Power
- Protect

I already told you why this mon is good. Heat wave and Earth power are both boosted by Sheer Force, and will sting pretty much everything off of a 145 Special Attack stat. Nature Power is used with Grassy Terrain to hit water types. Gastrodon and Swampert and dropping to this, and Fini takes massive damage. Furthermore, a niche application of this is hitting certain targets with a sheer force boosted Tri-Attack while terrain isn't up to hit certain targets that Camerupt usually can't hit neutrally, such as Charizard. Solid rock is used as pre mega ability as it can help Camerupt switch in.

Hit and Run (Incineroar) @ Figy Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 142 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Pretty normal Incineroar set with one difference. Most Incineroar run 12 speed, leaving them with a speed stat of 159. I run 20 speed on this Incineroar leaving it with a speed stat of 161 to outspeed both Incineroar using the normal set as well as people who had the same idea as me running 16 speed. Having a slightly faster Incineroar has twofold benefits on Trick Room teams: a faster fake out means it can always win fake out wars against other incineroar, and because it's faster, it will be slower than other Incineroar in trick room, allowing it to get the slower U Turn and the best possible scout of the opponent's switch, which can be vital due to the time-limited nature of the Trick Room field condition.

Down and Out (Conkeldurr) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Detect

Conkeldurr with Flame Orb, used for its high attack, low speed, decent bulk, and Guts ability. Drain Punch is stab and heals Conkeldurr in conjunction with Grassy Terrain to mitigate burn damage. Mach punch is used for priority, picking off weakened threats in and out of Trick Room. Knock off stings Psychics such as Cresselia, while Detect is used on pretty much every mon that learns it over Protect because of the niche possibility of Protect + Imprison strats, as well as the decreased emphasis on PP in Double Battles.


Exportable: https://pokepast.es/bacd4ea648e4a43b

I am open to any feedback or criticism on the team! Let me know your thoughts down below.

 

[Veecy]

Any team that begins with Bronzong, Camerupt, Bulu, and Incineroar ends with success. As you (Ryan) know, I have a very similar team, Camel in the Wind, which I built between your building and posting of this team (I used Kyurem-Black over Conkeldurr, all five other mons are the same). However, I find some interesting differences in the sets we've used between these teams.
I find your dual-STAB Assault Vest Tapu Bulu set to be very innovative and quite strong. I've used it myself since you first introduced it to me, to great results. In my usage, I have made two changes to the original set. Firstly, I find that investing in physical defense rather than special defense can improve general longevity on a game-to-game basis. There's no particular benchmark you want to hit here though. I've opted for an EV spread of 252 HP / 116 Atk / 140 Def with a Brave nature. This survives standard Metagross-Mega Iron Head, which I find to be a decent-if-arbitrary physical defense benchmark (though admittedly Bulu isn't doing much against Metagross regardless). If you've calced for a specific attack stat, though, I would just slide those EVs from special defense to defense. Secondly, I prefer Rock Slide over Stone Edge. Since you expressly state your desire to hit Flying-types hard with Stone Edge, I would consider this more of a personal preference, but it's an option worth considering. It's less immediately threatening, but provides great general utility (I mean, come on, it's Rock Slide). (Also, you accidentally referred to Bulu as Bronzong in the first line of your Bulu set explanation.)
Next, I find the choice to run Bulldoze over Protect on Bronzong to be interesting, though this will likely do more harm than good in general. Bronzong and Diancie don't generally want to be on the field at the same time to begin with - Bronzong is a great defensive/utility lead while Diancie functions better as a late-game sweeper - not to mention, this puts both of your valuable Trick Room users in the line of fire at once, which is not often ideal. I also find the secondary effect of lowering adjacent speed to be rather contradictory to this purpose. Considering Diancie's Clear Body ability, using Bulldoze to boost Diancie under Trick Room would have the side effect of lowering both opponent Pokemon's speed stats, but not either of your own, which is not ideal in Trick Room. Running Protect also enables Bronzong to semi-consistently sit passively on the field for long enough to set a second Trick Room without having to lose its hard-earned accuracy boost.
I find the choice of Conkeldurr very interesting. There's not really a wrong choice here as your last offensive mon, and Conkeldurr certainly fits the bill. As I said before, I opted for Kyurem-Black on my fullroom team (largely for the benefit of matching up well into opposing Camerupt, Landorus, and Charizard), but most of the matchups that it aides in can be played around without too much difficulty. I see a fair amount of value in Conkeldurr as a bulky sweeper with priority and good coverage, though I do think that mono fighting is a very poor typing. I won't officially suggest swapping this mon out, but it is worth considering your other options. (252 HP CB Zygarde is looking at you from across the room...)
Finally, seeing you running 20 Spe Incineroar (I opted for 16 to outspeed the standard 12) has confirmed my worst fears about the future of speed-creeping Incineroar on Trick Room. And you already know what I'm going to say about Figy Berry....
Here's the team with my suggestions: https://pokepast.es/895253ed1c57f62f

 

[Ryan5374]

Figy berry strikes again! I should have mentioned this but the Conkeldurr slot is pretty flexible in my opinion. Are there any more options that you'd recommend? I know you mentioned Kyurem but I feel like a lot of things could fit there and I'd like something that compliments the rest of the team offensively if possible

 

[Veecy]

I would personally go for something that matches up well into opposing Camerupt and Landorus, particularly the former. These two matchups were a significant reason I chose Kyurem-Black for my team. However, a strong offensive water-type can also fill this role well. I've prepared a few sets that you may find interesting: https://pokepast.es/a95cc3c5db18b304
Between Araquanid and Crawdaunt, the former provides more general utility with Bug Bite and Wide Guard, while the latter is more reliable as an offensive sweeper.
The Kyurem set I've attached is the same as the Smogon set, but with the 80 Speed EVs transferred to defense. You may also choose to put these in special attack. You can EV for a specific SpA stat as well, but I've mad the choice to leave it untouched such as to not mess with my head calcs.
Araquanid's Smogon set is EVd to survive Jolly 252 Bulu Wood Hammer, with the remainder going into defense. I chose a contrarian approach that yielded almost exactly the same EV spread. 164+ attack is used to OHKO standard bulky Landorus-Therian, then 252 HP / 92 Def is used to improve rolls against Tapu Bulu and other physical attackers. Sticky Web is not used here for obvious reasons.
Crawdaunt is, of these three, perhaps the closest to what you're looking for. Like Conkeldurr, Crawdaunt hits hard and has STAB priority with Aqua Jet. The set may appear very odd at first glance, with a strange defensive spread, and Hyper Cutter. However, there is a reason for this. Crawdaunt's main target, Camerupt, is going to fall hard to CB Aqua Jet, with or without the Adaptability boost. Getting in, though, can be a concern, as you would rather not have to trade one of your more valuable pieces to get Crawdaunt on the field in a Camerupt ditto. So Crawdaunt is EVd to survive a Camerupt Earth Power, meaning it can switch in for Diancie or Camerupt and threaten a KO with priority Aqua Jet. 152 HP / 248 SpD minimizes the total number of EV points needed to achieve this, while maximizing the number put into HP over SpD, in order to leave the most possible EV points remaining for Crawdaunt's Attack stat. Hyper Cutter is chosen to maintain momentum against Incineroar and Landorus-Therian. By blocking the Intimidate drop with Hyper Cutter, Crawdaunt prevents them from stealing momentum by switching in, Intimidating, and U-turning. With the remaining 108 EVs going to attack and a Brave nature, Crawdaunt is able to ensure Liquidation KOs standard bulky Landorus-Therian while avoiding an attack drop, and Incineroar is left with a 75% chance of a OHKO. Finally, Knock Off is chosen as a secondary STAB, and one of the most spammable Choice Band moves in the game. I've gone back and forth on the best fourth move, primarily between Superpower (to chunk Ferrothorn and Kyurem-Black) and X-Scissor (to smash through Ludicolo and Sceptile). Ultimately, I selected X-Scissor. Though Ludicolo and Sceptile are less important matchups than Ferrothorn and Kyurem-Black, X-Scissor makes those matchups Crawdaunt-favor under Trick Room, while Superpower just lets Crawdaunt get off a surprise hit before dying. Rock Slide is also acceptible for utility, but this team already has Diancie and Stone Edge Bulu, so I found this to be redundant.
Here's the team with Crawdaunt replacing Conkeldurr: https://pokepast.es/62ad29055fb3f62c

 

[Idyll]

Hey, this looks like a pretty solid team you have here. Good to see you give your own take on SM DOU FullRoom, it's an archetype that doesn't really much variation considering the typical build-arounds and the checklist of threats they have to cover. Your first 5 mons in particular are shared by the sample FullRoom team that we have in the SM thread, but your choice of having Conkeldurr on the final slot is definitely an interesting try at giving the archetype some more force and it's a choice that clearly cascaded into the other choices you have on your team. Still, I believe that Conkeldurr ultimately won't cut it, and that there is also something that fills the same goals while covering some of the team's relatively shakier matchups.

Going tothe smaller changes to make the team function more efficiently though, I first recommend running Protect or Stealth Rock over Bulldoze on Bronzong. While the idea of having the agency of activating Diancie's Weakness Policy is interesting, it's also ultimately impractical as having your team's TR setters together on the field is something you generally want to avoid. Instead, it's better to use that moveslot to increase Bronzong's independent effectiveness, with the choice of move ultimately depending on how you want to play your games out. Protect gives you better lines of play available into opposing Fake Out leads, while Stealth Rock is handy for pushing stuff into KO range for your attackers. Either of the two can't ever go wrong, really. An optional change to go with this is Hard Stone on Diancie; while Weakness Policy is still fine even without any self-activation, you might favor the consistency in this case, but either item is fine!

Assault Vest Tapu Bulu, one of its two standard sets within FullRoom, fits quite well here considering what the team needs out of it. While Veecy suggested that you make the set more physically defensive, I believe you should actually keep the Tapu Bulu set as it is considering the role it fills within the team. Tapu Bulu doesn't really need to match up decently into the likes of Mega Metagross, Kartana, and Zygarde as the team, with proper play, is already well equipped to deal with them by having Bronzong, Incineroar, and Mega Camerupt. However, its Grass-typing and terrain control is important for its job in matching up against Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Volcanion, and rain threats quite consistently, its resistance to Electric and Water being key to its job; the threats that this team needs Tapu Bulu to check are primarily special attackers, so it would make no sense to compromise its ability to do this job.

Going to the one big change I think this team should make though: I believe that Conkeldurr just isn't that sufficient to metagame standards in all regards, whether it be offensively, defensively, or in the context of utility for a FullRoom team. Its coverage and damage output is quite sketchy, pure Fighting-type offers no valuable resistances, and it's really just a pure attacker that offers nothing to the team. There are essentially no matchups where it helps, when this slot could essentially otherwise tie the team together in terms of matchup spread. While Veecy above has recommended a bunch of alternatives, an option I offer you myself is actually Hoopa-Unbound on slot 6. This is because it fulfills the slot's niche of being a considerable offensive presence while also targeting threats that the team doesn't seem to adequately cover; it gives a better matchup into Aegislash and Gothitelle in particular, two threats that a FullRoom team can have some significant trouble dealing with. Its massive Special Defense also lets it be a reliable answer to the troublesome Volcanion, rain teams, and a miscellany of special attackers like YZard and opposing Mega Camel, and its ability to ignore Sub can come in handy occasionally on top of that. Most importantly, though, is that Hoopa-Unbound is a third Trick Room setter; adding a third TR would relieve a lot of pressure to Diancie in particular as this would allow it to use its defensive typing more aggressively in necessary matchups without fear of the team losing a key Trick Room reset.

Hoopa-Unbound

Hoopa-Unbound @ Sitrus Berry / Safety Goggles
Ability: Magician
EVs: 192 HP / 212 Atk / 104 Def
Brave Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Hyperspace Hole
- Trick Room
- Protect

Among the alternatives Veecy recommended above, I would most recommend Araquanid. It has a similar kind of attacking role as Conkeldurr while having a ton of important defensive matchups: its bulk and typing make it reliable into rain and against Incineroar, Zygarde, opposing FullRoom, and Mega Metagross if you can scout for Thunder Punch. I would recommend Toxic over Bug Bite from their recommended set, however; Bug Bite just generally isn't good enough as a lot of the time you'd really just want to be clicking Liquidation even on resisting foes, while Toxic gives you a strong out into bulky stuff like P2 while also letting you actually punish Volcanion. The out-of-TR utility comes in really handy as it can actually establish itself as a signficant presence even during the part of the game where you're fighting for the TR reset, unlike Crawdaunt who is deadweight outside of Aqua Jet in such positions.

That's all, good luck with your team!

 

[Ryan5374]

I think Hoopa unbound is exactly what I'm looking for. Those offenses look too good to pass up, and bypassing protect is a cherry on top. I didn't use it because I was under the impression that it was frail on both sides, but with incin support it seems quite usable! Might I ask why it uses sitrus and not a 50% berry?

 

[Idyll]

I think Hoopa unbound is exactly what I'm looking for. Those offenses look too good to pass up, and bypassing protect is a cherry on top. I didn't use it because I was under the impression that it was frail on both sides, but with incin support it seems quite usable! Might I ask why it uses sitrus and not a 50% berry?

It's mostly because, for how Hoopa-Unbound typically plays out, it will often find itself preferring to be bailed out around 26-50% HP than anything lower than that due to how aggressive and committed FullRoom TR setters need to be, unlike the likes of Tapu Fini and Incineroar who are bulkier and can drag out games for a good amount of time.

 

[Ryan5374]

That is good. I've tested Unbound on the ladder and it's been giving me great results, not to mention the cathartic nature of seeing protects and substitutes break.
In that case, here's the final team for future reference.

https://pokepast.es/434bbcd8d7e56272

 

[Shay's Fate]

View attachment 473163
Hit and Run (Incineroar) @ Figy Berry

Basically, I think that only three of the recovery berries should be used, even though almost all of them see regular use. Sitrus berry is one, since it obviously functions differently from the others. The other two, though, are Wiki Berry and Mago Berry. I truly think that no other berry should be used. The reason goes back to VGC. In that meta, there is an item clause, so players use a variety of berries to get around the restriction. Because of that, the culture of using berries like Figy Berry and Iapapa Berry has carried over to DOU. However, I believe the secondary benefit of the berry should be considered. Primarily, berries are meant to restore health. However, it is possible an opponent to use Bug Bite to steal your berry, in which case, their nature is taken into consideration. Either they get health back for free, or they get health but are forced to switch to avoid confusion. There are only two real Bug Bite users in the tier - Scizor and Araquanid. Both of them are naturally going to opt for a -SpA nature, meaning they would be confused by a Wiki Berry. So any time you don't have a -SpA nature, you should always run Wiki Berry, to maximize the odds that you confuse an opponent using Bug Bite. If you do have a -SpA nature, it might seem at first like it doesn't matter, but it still does a lot. In that case, you should run Mago Berry, which will confuse -Speed Pokemon. Scizor typically runs -SpA, but it may run -Speed on Trick Room. Araquanid, in fact, almost always runs -Speed. You'll almost never see anything besides -SpA or -Speed on a Bug Bite user, so therefore you should only be using those berries - otherwise, you're lowering the odds that you confuse an opponent stealing your berry by a huge margin

 

[Veecy]

Basically, I think that only three of the recovery berries should be used, even though almost all of them see regular use. Sitrus berry is one, since it obviously functions differently from the others. The other two, though, are Wiki Berry and Mago Berry. I truly think that no other berry should be used. The reason goes back to VGC. In that meta, there is an item clause, so players use a variety of berries to get around the restriction. Because of that, the culture of using berries like Figy Berry and Iapapa Berry has carried over to DOU. However, I believe the secondary benefit of the berry should be considered. Primarily, berries are meant to restore health. However, it is possible an opponent to use Bug Bite to steal your berry, in which case, their nature is taken into consideration. Either they get health back for free, or they get health but are forced to switch to avoid confusion. There are only two real Bug Bite users in the tier - Scizor and Araquanid. Both of them are naturally going to opt for a -SpA nature, meaning they would be confused by a Wiki Berry. So any time you don't have a -SpA nature, you should always run Wiki Berry, to maximize the odds that you confuse an opponent using Bug Bite. If you do have a -SpA nature, it might seem at first like it doesn't matter, but it still does a lot. In that case, you should run Mago Berry, which will confuse -Speed Pokemon. Scizor typically runs -SpA, but it may run -Speed on Trick Room. Araquanid, in fact, almost always runs -Speed. You'll almost never see anything besides -SpA or -Speed on a Bug Bite user, so therefore you should only be using those berries - otherwise, you're lowering the odds that you confuse an opponent stealing your berry by a huge margin

Plagiarism, mods do your thing