Pokémon Ditto

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Goomy_Hat

Goomy_Hat

Spr_5b_132.png

Ditto

Type: Normal

Ability:Limber- The Pokémon is protected from paralysis
Imposter- You transform into the Pokémon in front of you

Base Stats: Hp/Atk/Def/Sp.Atk/Sp.Def/Spe
48/48/48/48/48/48 Total: 288

Moves: Transform

Ditto is the kind of Pokemon that you can use abuse the strengths of your opponent. Using the impostor ability, you get to transform upon entry and then use one of your opponent's moves. This also copies all stat changes and EVs except changes in HP.

This is best used against Mega-Evolutions, where you still have an open slot for items. It's also decent against everything else, especially if the opponent has moves that it's weak to (i.e. dragonite with draco meteor). So anyway, here's two "sets"


Anti-Mega
Ability: Imposter
Nature: Hasty/Naive (pick your poison)
Moves: Transform
Item: Life Orb

This set is to transform into a mega-evolved Pokemon. With a speed-increasing nature and damage-boosting life orb, you can hit mega-evolutions fast and hard.


Tank-Copy
Abilty: Imposter
Nature: Bold/Impish (you know the drill)
Moves: Transform
Item: Leftovers

Ditto becomes a tank, but is still viable as a slightly bulky attacker. Leftovers is a good boost for longevity in any case.



All in all, Ditto is more of a gimmick that works perfectly under certain conditions. Since its properties are not set in stone, it can add some versatility to your team.
 
Mega Gengar's worst enemy: another Mega Gengar.

Being able to add a Mega to your team without being restricted by a stone is a pretty nifty deal that Ditto can have. But the tanking set should be removed entirely, Ditto's not gonna tank anything with 48 HP unless he copies Shuckle or something, and he's meant to revenge kill with a Scarf anyway. But giving him a Life Orb or something certainly adds surprise: put him in against a good sweeper, opponent switches because they think they'll be outsped and killed, hilarity ensues.
 
scarf is usually the way to go but since the metagame slowed down that life orb might be useful but not lefties. How about focus sash? But really, you cant really give much input on ditto because its options rely on who it copies so in a way this topic is pointless.
 
I don't think this topic is necessarily pointless; the life orb ditto as an anti-mega pokemon is actually not a bad idea. However, copying a Mega still puts you in a speed tie without a Choice Scarf. I think 6th gen Dittos will primarily be scarfed due to that. The abundance of high attack power pokemon may work in Ditto's favor, though.
 
The only things Imposter doesn't copy are HP, IVs (for the purpose of Hidden Power), and happiness. Nature doesn't really matter, since no matter what, Ditto will have the exact same stats as the Pokemon it transforms into, besides HP. Thus, Nature and non-HP EVs are only useful if you don't end up Trasforming. This is what Ditto should (probably) be running:

EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpDef
Nature: Sassy
IVs: 0 Spe

This was taken from Ditto's page last gen (with a tweak to the IVs) and most of what made it optimal still applies. Sassy with maximum SpDef is for the rare scenario when you accidentally come in on a Zoroark with its Illusion up, as Imposter fails on illusions. Absolute minimum Speed is used so that you'll go last in the rare Ditto vs. Ditto scenario. In this case, neither Ditto will be able to Transform and a PP stall war will ensue. In that case, you always want to go last so that your opponent kills itself with Struggle before you do.

0 Spe with 31 in every other stat also gives Hidden Power Ice. I think this was mainly used so you can still revenge kill Landorus that also run Hidden Power and it was also your strongest attack against a Hidden Power Zapdos. Right now, STAB Thunderbolt actually hits Zapdos harder than an SE HP and Landorus isn't available yet, but Ice is still a strong attacking type and is useful if you come in on an Electric-type with Hidden Power and predict a switch to a Ground-type.

Last Gen, all Imposter Ditto ever ran was Choice Scarf so it would always outspeed whatever it was revenge killing. Now though, I think you can definitely make a case for Life Orb and Leftovers, since they would give it an edge vs. Mega Pokemon.
 
I've seen Focus Sash used to some effect on Ditto. Other than that, there really isn't any other consistent option than a Choice Scarf unless your aim is to troll your opponent by rubbing in their face that you won the matchup on a 50% speed tie.
 
Hm, Focus Sash would allow you the potential to use another move while not being locked into one. This could screw up your opponent if they think you're Scarfed and locked into Earthquake for example, and they try to find a safe switch-in. Course, you'll need a spinner/defogger to rely on this somewhat consistently.
 
Thats why a sash can be useful. You grab the opponent's boosts and you wouldnt really care if you lose the speed tie because of sash. Then now your open to use all your moves unlike a scarf.
 
Yo first post.

I think the addition of Sticky Web makes Life Orb Ditto very interesting. With proper support, Ditto can now both out-speed and be more powerful than whatever it has copied.
 
Goomy_Hat said:
Spr_5b_132.png

Ditto

Type: Normal

Ability:Limber- The Pokémon is protected from paralysis
Imposter- You transform into the Pokémon in front of you

Base Stats: Hp/Atk/Def/Sp.Atk/Sp.Def/Spe
48/48/48/48/48/48 Total: 288

Moves: Transform

Ditto is the kind of Pokemon that you can use abuse the strengths of your opponent. Using the impostor ability, you get to transform upon entry and then use one of your opponent's moves. This also copies all stat changes and EVs except changes in HP.

This is best used against Mega-Evolutions, where you still have an open slot for items. It's also decent against everything else, especially if the opponent has moves that it's weak to (i.e. dragonite with draco meteor). So anyway, here's two "sets"


Anti-Mega
Ability: Imposter
Nature: Hasty/Naive (pick your poison)
Moves: Transform
Item: Life Orb

This set is to transform into a mega-evolved Pokemon. With a speed-increasing nature and damage-boosting life orb, you can hit mega-evolutions fast and hard.


Tank-Copy
Abilty: Imposter
Nature: Bold/Impish (you know the drill)
Moves: Transform
Item: Leftovers

Ditto becomes a tank, but is still viable as a slightly bulky attacker. Leftovers is a good boost for longevity in any case.



All in all, Ditto is more of a gimmick that works perfectly under certain conditions. Since its properties are not set in stone, it can add some versatility to your team.
Click to expand...

Ditto copies Nature.

Your suggestion is only: add a Life Orb and hope we get lucky in a Speed Tie.
 
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AttackOn6thGen said:
Yo first post.

I think the addition of Sticky Web makes Life Orb Ditto very interesting. With proper support, Ditto can now both out-speed and be more powerful than whatever it has copied.
Click to expand...

If you copy a Pokemon which has its Speed dropped by Sticky Web, your Speed is still exactly like that Pokemon.

So the idea about Ditto and Sticky Web can be thrown through the window right now.
 
LO is definitely an option. Given how utterly ubiquitous Choice Scarf Ditto is, it'll generally force out anything that a Choice Scarf set can immediately murder. As a bonus, even if they call your bluff and stay in there's only a 50% chance they'll avoid being killed anyway! Thus predicting Scarf and switching is the lower risk option, with the risk being a 1.3x damage hit that they can try to predict in order to soften, as opposed to being straight up dead if wrong and 50/50 dead if right.

The problem with most items is that you need to get an advantage from carrying them. Leftovers has a tendency to just even the score, which isn't all that useful, and it doesn't tend to offer much if Ditto copies a pokemon that wasn't carrying Leftovers in the first place.
 
I think Ditto's usability lies strictly in the use of a scarf in order to take down troublesome mons. Without it you have a 50-50 chance to outspeed or not, and let's face it, if you are goin to use Ditto, might as well do so that he surely does what he should do, to go first and kill the opponent's poke, otherwise, without a scarf I mean, I don't see why use him as a revenge killer, or at all in general.
 
Zazazaki said:
I think Ditto's usability lies strictly in the use of a scarf in order to take down troublesome mons. Without it you have a 50-50 chance to outspeed or not, and let's face it, if you are goin to use Ditto, might as well do so that he surely does what he should do, to go first and kill the opponent's poke, otherwise, without a scarf I mean, I don't see why use him as a revenge killer, or at all in general.
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Well see, if someone played Ditto against you you'd assume it's scarfed because of this, right? So you wouldn't stay in with the pokemon that was copied, because you'd just lose that pokemon straight up. So you'd switch, which makes Scarf Ditto's Speed irrelevant. In this situation, LO Ditto will do a better job of hitting the switch-in. (Obviously if you choose to sacrifice the copied pokemon this changes, but it's pretty easy to send out Ditto in a situation where the opponent doesn't want to sac and make it look like you're just forcing them out).
 
LordRandomness said:
Well see, if someone played Ditto against you you'd assume it's scarfed because of this, right? So you wouldn't stay in with the pokemon that was copied, because you'd just lose that pokemon straight up. So you'd switch, which makes Scarf Ditto's Speed irrelevant. In this situation, LO Ditto will do a better job of hitting the switch-in. (Obviously if you choose to sacrifice the copied pokemon this changes, but it's pretty easy to send out Ditto in a situation where the opponent doesn't want to sac and make it look like you're just forcing them out).
Click to expand...

This mind game is pretty good when you first approach it. Then again. Does every sweeper out there care about its replicate on the other side with stupid HP?

I remember the time when I had my +3 Quiver Dance Volcarona under the sun and the opponent tried revenge killing me with his Ditto. It turned out that my Volcarona can take hits easily from a Scarfed Ditto, and dished out the same amount of damages on that poor HP bar of him, while Morning Sun myself back to healthy position.

The only thing that forces Ditto to use Scarf is his poor HP. Even when he copies a wall, he cannot function as a wall. Therefore it is best to put him in a revenge killer position with a Scarf to outspeed his opponent.

In conclusion, LO Ditto is something that can catch people offguard, but it is still a gamble. A Mega-Medicham laughs at Ditto, and now because you copy Mega Gengar, so both are in the field, you risk your revenge kill opportunity because it is a speed tie.

Khawarith said:
Wait... really? So why can't you just run a Jolly ditto and outspeed anything that isn't using a speed boosting nature?
Click to expand...

Wait that was a mistake when I was thinking while writing. It does copy Nature. Sorry ^^
 
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iQs__ said:
Wait that was a mistake when I was thinking while writing. It does copy Nature. Sorry ^^
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Aw for a second I thought I discovered a Gen 6 change that would let Ditto outspeed everything while still carrying Life Orbs :P

That said I personally think the inclusion of Megas and allowing Ditto to transform into them definitely is a Gen 6 buff to Ditto. I'm considering running one to copy certain Megas but it's all theory at this point, haven't tested it out.
 
LordRandomness said:
Well see, if someone played Ditto against you you'd assume it's scarfed because of this, right? So you wouldn't stay in with the pokemon that was copied, because you'd just lose that pokemon straight up. So you'd switch, which makes Scarf Ditto's Speed irrelevant. In this situation, LO Ditto will do a better job of hitting the switch-in. (Obviously if you choose to sacrifice the copied pokemon this changes, but it's pretty easy to send out Ditto in a situation where the opponent doesn't want to sac and make it look like you're just forcing them out).
Click to expand...
That could work .. for a while. Until there's such a high number of people doin that that it becomes predictable. Still, if both ideas carry on, then it could be a bit more interestin competitively, as you'd have to guess and predict whether it's the standard scarf or a lure set. Of course, the opponent is likely to sent in somethin that counters the transformation your ditto took.
 
iQs__ said:
This mind game is pretty good when you first approach it. Then again. Does every sweeper out there care about its replicate on the other side with stupid HP?

I remember the time when I had my +3 Quiver Dance Volcarona under the sun and the opponent tried revenge killing me with his Ditto. It turned out that my Volcarona can take hits easily from a Scarfed Ditto, and dished out the same amount of damages on that poor HP bar of him, while Morning Sun myself back to healthy position.

The only thing that forces Ditto to use Scarf is his poor HP. Even when he copies a wall, he cannot function as a wall. Therefore it is best to put him in a revenge killer position with a Scarf to outspeed his opponent.

In conclusion, LO Ditto is something that can catch people offguard, but it is still a gamble. A Mega-Medicham laughs at Ditto, and now because you copy Mega Gengar, so both are in the field, you risk your revenge kill opportunity because it is a speed tie.
Click to expand...

However, if we are using Ditto as a revenge killer you do get to choose when you send it out. This means you can send him in when your opponent is most likely to switch out when faced with itself. I don't think every sweeper will care, but I suspect enough will that an opportunity will present itself in the vast majority of games.

Also, a pokemon with Shadow Tag can switch out of another pokemon with Shadow Tag so Mega Gengar Ditto isn't stuck in that situation. If you meant you're risking your revenge kill opportunity, the opponent is likely to switch because they'll lose their Gengar to a SE STAB Shadow Ball from yours if it's scarfed.

Zazazaki said:
That could work .. for a while. Until there's such a high number of people doin that that it becomes predictable. Still, if both ideas carry on, then it could be a bit more interestin competitively, as you'd have to guess and predict whether it's the standard scarf or a lure set. Of course, the opponent is likely to sent in somethin that counters the transformation your ditto took.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's one of those things that gets worse the more popular it is. In terms of sending in a counter, most sweepers have good coverage which lets you pick a coverage move if you can predict the switch-in. If none is available, LO is still going to make the most of your NFE retaliation (which coming from their sweeper has a decent chance of denting them, especially with top-tier Dragon threats that will flee from their own Dragon moves. Most dragons carry SOMEthing for fairies, so that shouldn't be an issue)
 
could white herb with sticky web support work?

swap it in, copy the -1 speed, white herb it away, rather gimmicky since it only revenges grounded pokemon, you need sticky web to successful go up and stay up all game, and you cant revenge kill twice, but would make it easier to sweep after revenging a setup sweeper, rather than just revenge it and be forced out if scarfed

oh, that wouldnt work against anything that boosts speed either i just realized, probably a bad idea then
 
Jayceja said:
could white herb with sticky web support work?

swap it in, copy the -1 speed, white herb it away, rather gimmicky since it only revenges grounded pokemon, you need sticky web to successful go up and stay up all game, and you cant revenge kill twice, but would make it easier to sweep after revenging a setup sweeper, rather than just revenge it and be forced out if scarfed

oh, that wouldnt work against anything that boosts speed either i just realized, probably a bad idea then
Click to expand...

Also even more unfortunately, White Herb only triggers when your stats are dropped I believe (I could well be wrong, in which case someone call me on it). If this is the case, it won't negate the Speed drop from Impostor copying theirs in the same way that it doesn't work if you Psych Up some negative boosts. (Er, I think)
 
LordRandomness said:
Also, a pokemon with Shadow Tag can switch out of another pokemon with Shadow Tag so Mega Gengar Ditto isn't stuck in that situation. If you meant you're risking your revenge kill opportunity, the opponent is likely to switch because they'll lose their Gengar to a SE STAB Shadow Ball from yours if it's scarfed.
Click to expand...

This is a valuable information to me. I do not know and I do not expect it coming. And yes the part about the rising opportunity is somewhat applicable in battles.

Well anyone has been trying? I'm not that in to Ditto lately :)
 
iQs__ said:
This is a valuable information to me. I do not know and I do not expect it coming. And yes the part about the rising opportunity is somewhat applicable in battles.

Well anyone has been trying? I'm not that in to Ditto lately :)
Click to expand...

The reason for it is pretty funny: Back in Generation III, if both sides sent out a Wobbuffet neither could actually do anything to the other until they ran out of PP and were forced to Struggle. Some NPCs had Wobbuffet, which made this incredibly irritating. Although the Pokedex entry from Ruby does say "If two or more Wobbuffet meet, they will turn competitive and try to outdo the other's endurance. However, they may try to see which one can endure the longest without food. Trainers need to beware of this habit." which actually fits the double shadow tag scenario surprisingly well.
 
LordRandomness said:
Also even more unfortunately, White Herb only triggers when your stats are dropped I believe (I could well be wrong, in which case someone call me on it). If this is the case, it won't negate the Speed drop from Impostor copying theirs in the same way that it doesn't work if you Psych Up some negative boosts. (Er, I think)
Click to expand...
White herb does only raise the lowered stats
 
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