Discharge vs Thunderbolt

Turismo2029

Which one is better really?

Thunderbolt does more damage, sure, but Discharge has a 30% chance of paralysis, and isn't that much weaker.

I will personally be using Discharge where I can, specifically for my Zapdos, since I can not use Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt at the same time, and replace with Discharge for just about the same effect.
Seems like a real good option considering it lets me fit another move on it.

What's peoples opinions on these two moves?

My Zapdos has Discharge/Roost/Drill Peck/Light Screen, should be sweet.
 
It's only 1/3 of the time. When that doesn't happen, you're going to wish you had that extra power instead. When they aren't fully paralyzed and hurt you pretty bad, you're going to wish you had OHKO'd them instead of leaving them with a few% left. If you just want to paraylze stuff, and don't want to use T-Wave, try using a Serene Grace pokemon with Thunder (Calm Mind Jirachi works pretty well for that)
 
I use Zapdos.
I can Roost or use Light Screen to support myself anyway, so at least in my particular situation, Discharge is better.
 
Eh, I'd argue that, even in that situation, it's not. If you get the KO, you're not even going to need to use Roost or Light Screen, and that extra power could get you that KO. "Eliminate the unnecessary."
 
For sweepers thunderbolt is better, but for bulky pokemon, discharge is arguably better. It's pretty much the same as return vs. body slam.
 
I lean toward Discharge because I believe it's a better move, all things considered. There's a reason it's rare. However, its usefulness strongly depends on the Pokémon using it. Generally, a fast sweeper would be better off with Thunderbolt, but a slower, tanky Pokémon would be better off with Discharge. This is partly because the slower Pokémon is more likely to benefit from Paralysis's Speed drop, but it's also because in a tankish situation, you'll be using the move multiple times and therefore the cumulative chance to paralyze is quite high. So in cases like that, you're basically saving a moveslot that would be taken by Thunder Wave.

Here's my general thought:

Raichu: Thunderbolt (or Volt Tackle)
Magenezone: Either
Electivire: Thunderbolt
Porygon2: Discharge
Porygon-Z: Thunderbolt
Zapdos: Thunderbolt
Lanturn: Discharge
Ampharos: Either
Raikou: Thunderbolt
Probopass: Discharge
Manectric: Thunderbolt
Luxray: Discharge
Pachirisu: No Electric attacks
Rotom: Thunderbolt

Of course, if you have a Rain Dance team, Thunder is better than either one. Likewise, on a 2v2 team Discharge hits your ally, which is something to take into consideration (free Volt Absorb or Motor Drive boost!).
 
Discharge would be more convinient but Thunder Bolt is stronger, But either way there both electric attacks and if your fighting a water type it wont make a difference you'll still kill it. If it was up to me Ill put thunder bolt but its up to you.
 
The only way I see Discharge being remotely better than Thunderbolt (besides the aformentioned Bulky vs. sweeper Pokemon, which doesn't seem too convincing...) is in a double battle with a Ground-type/Volt Absorb partner. Otherwise Thunderbolt completely outclasses it. If you want Paralysis use Thunder Wave unless you have Serene Grace, in which case Discharge becomes slightly more viable (although you'd probably want to be using Charge Beam for 100% chance of Sp. attack raising a stage).
 
Why have both TBolt and TWave though?
When Discharge does both at the same time basically, 30% chance of paralysis is pretty high..

I do agree with the sweeper vs bulky pokemon thing though, I can see the point there.
 
Turismo2029 said:
Why have both TBolt and TWave though?
When Discharge does both at the same time basically, 30% chance of paralysis is pretty high..

I do agree with the sweeper vs bulky pokemon thing though, I can see the point there.
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You're missing the point. No one is going to use Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave in the same moveset, not only is it impractical move-wise, it's not even the purpose. For instance, a Starmie is always going to use Thunderbolt. It has absolutely no need to paralyze foes, and nor does it need to have an increased chance of paralyzing foes with lower damage. Like someone previously mentioned, you're going to wish you KOd it rather than paralyzed it, bottom line.

Get what I mean? A pokemon is either going to want to Paralyze their opponent for sure(Thunder Wave), or just do lots of damage with a strong attack(Thunderbolt), not both. Only a select few Pokemon would take the bastardized middle ground.

Edit: And personally, if I were a tank, I'd rather take Charge Beam's 70% Sp. Attack buff to at least try and do some extra damage (Cresselia makes a great example)
 
The "bastardized middle ground" is more useful though, 30% paralysis chance is pretty good and it's only 15BP weaker than TBolt.
 
Turismo2029 said:
The "bastardized middle ground" is more useful though, 30% paralysis chance is pretty good and it's only 15BP weaker than TBolt.
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It statistically is certainly not. Considering how luck-based Pokemon is already, people like to be sure of what the outcome will be after they make a move, not hope that they'll get lucky- why do you think Surf is used over Hydro Pump 95% of the time? Or any other 100% accuracy vs. Low accuracy/high BP move? That's right, they want to be sure it will hit.

The same logic applies to Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt and Discharge. Either you're going to want to make sure whoever you're facing will be definitely paralyzed, or you're definitely going to want to KO them or at least do a significant portion of damage. Not inflict lower damage and "really hope" that they get paralyzed. High risk, low reward.
 
Well if I can hit them hard, and have a chance of paralyzing them thus supporting my team, how is that not on par with Thunderbolt?
 
Turismo2029 said:
Well if I can hit them hard, and have a chance of paralyzing them thus supporting my team, how is that not on par with Thunderbolt?
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Keyword: Chance. Again, high risk, low reward. By your logic they'd be 2HKO'd by the next turn anyways, so what's the point? Thunderbolt would likely have OHKO'd already.

15 BP is more than you think. It really can make the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, so it's not like you're really supporting the team if you paralyze and then (depending on how much damage was done) 2HKO or 3HKO anyways. Thunder Wave is meant to force switches from a Pokemon that would otherwise be a large threat, it's a guaranteed way to cripple a Pokemon. Likewise, Thunderbolt is meant to OHKO or at least do significant damage that would force a switch or be a 2HKO. Discharge does mediocre damage, relies on chance/luck to provide "support", and is otherwise not particularly useful. Face it, it's outclassed by Thunderbolt, as are most "jacks of all trades". Why do you think Milotic and Suicune, favouritism aside, see much more use than Blastoise? They're superior tanks.

Edit: Better yet, beyond favouritism, why would anyone use Dragonite? Garchomp makes a much better Physical sweeper, Salamence a much better special sweeper. So what is the only thing that makes Dragonite useful?... Yeah... nothing. As much as I love Dragonite, it's outclassed by Pokemon that are specifically suited to their purpose and have the stats for said purpose. At least it's usable without relying on chance.
 
On more defensive pokemon who want as little sp atk as needed, they want tbolt to kill gyarados with less EVs. Sweepers also want to use Thunderbolt for the raw power, because that's what they are. Maybe some pokemon that will 2hko regardless can benefit with the paralysis chance.
 
Thunderbolt doesn't just one hit KO everything, and considering I plan on having some EV's in attack for Drill Peck - I think Discharge is the better option.

Since I probably won't OHKO anything that isn't weak to electric anyway I may aswell use Discharge - if both are a 2HKO - why would I not pick the one with the status effect?

Who knows, I could hit 'em, have them paralyzed, and kill next turn.

I don't choice spec so it's not like I'll be OHKOing everything anyway, usually 2HKO's either way, so Discharge is better since the paralysis chance is more useful than simply doing a little more damage when they will die from the second attack either way.
 
Yoshi King said:
You're missing the point. No one is going to use Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave in the same moveset, not only is it impractical move-wise, it's not even the purpose.
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Woah woah woah slow down here. Thunderwave/Thunderbolt were a very combination in a large proportion of Electrics in advanced, especially before the introduction of Emerald and substitute.
 
Yeah, basically all Ampharos sets I see use both moves.

I can see it being handy on a fair few pokemon - why wouldn't you support your team?
Especially against things TBolt isn't very effective against but can still hit, like grass.
 
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