Diancie, Hoopa, and Volcanion

guiz pick ur favrite

  • Diancie

    Votes: 11 8.6%

  • Hoopa

    Votes: 18 14.1%

  • Volcanion

    Votes: 50 39.1%

  • jrp

    Votes: 49 38.3%
  • Total voters
    128
Arcticblast

Arcticblast

Trans rights are human rights
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Let's talk about these guys.
(Don't discuss banning them or anything please and thank you)

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Diancie
Rock/Fairy
Ability: Clear Body
50 HP / 100 Atk / 150 Def / 100 SpA / 150 SpD / 50 Spe
Signature move: Diamond Storm - Rock, physical, 100 BP, 95 acc., hits all Pokemon on the field (confirmation needed) and has a 50% chance to raise Defense

Diancie seems like an interesting Pokemon, although its typing is all it really has going for it. Diamond Storm is a neat move and all but it's forced to go mixed if it wants to use both STABs. Its coverage is abysmal and it has a support movepool to match. It does have some potential though, checking Char-Y and various Dragons nicely.

Sample set:
Diancie @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Protect
- Diamond Storm / Stone Edge
- Moonblast
- Trick Room
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Hoopa
Ghost/Psychic
Ability: Magician (lol)
80 HP / 110 Atk / 60 Def / 150 SpA / 130 SpD / 70 Spe
Signature move: Hyperspace Hole - Psychic, special, 80 BP, -- acc., hits through Protect/Detect (may break protection - confirmation needed) - somehow this move is more badass than its name
Edit: confirmation that Hyperspace Hole is a 1-turn move

Despite its bad typing and low Speed, Hoopa looks to be incredibly dangerous. It has solid Special Defense and a great 150 base Special Attack. Hyperspace Hole is incredible, punching straight through Protect without the low BP of Feint or the charge turn of Phantom Force. It also has coverage galore (unlike the other event legends) so it could easily be molded to fit any team that needs it.

Sample set:
Hoopa @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Hyperspace Hole
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Trick

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Volcanion
Water/Fire
Ability: Water Absorb
80 HP / 110 Atk / 120 Def / 130 SpA / 90 SpD / 70 Spe
Signature move: Steam Eruption - Water, special, 110 BP, 95 acc., 30% burn chance

While it's not quite the offensive enabler Hoopa looks to be, Volcanion looks to be a mainstay in bulkier teams. Its low Speed sucks, but is less of a burden than it is with Hoopa, and its typing and ability let it counter several big threats such as Azumarill and Mega Charizard Y. A weakness to Rock and Ground unfortunately hinders it, but it can easily take some big hits. A Special Attack stat of 130 combined with some great STABs means it's no slouch offensively either, and Steam Eruption is basically Scald on steroids.

Sample set:
Volcanion @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Will-O-Wisp / Sludge Bomb / Rock Slide

Note that these are not properly implemented on Pokemon Showdown yet. Anyway, start talking.
 
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Diancie is exciting for Trick Room. The rest seem pretty mediocre, but Hoopla's Protect breaking is pretty fantastic.

More discussion later as people add in since I'm busy atm.
 
Volcanion seems like it would be good on any weather team because it has weather ball for coverage, so on say a sandstorm team the combo of fire water and rock is only resisted by keldio and water/ground types. Edit: with water absorb
Ranking estimate: A / A+

That Hoopa set looks pretty solid, and I think it could succeed in doubles
Ranking estimate: B / A-

Diancie seems like it might be a decent trick room pokemon, but that's about it...
Ranking estimate: Mid rank B

Ranking estimates are referring to the viability rankings by the way.
 
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BlankZero said:
Diancie is exciting for Trick Room. The rest seem pretty mediocre, but Hoopla's Protect breaking is pretty fantastic.

More discussion later as people add in since I'm busy atm.
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Ok no way in hell that Volcanion is mediocre. It is like Heatran++

Water/Fire
Ability: Water Absorb
80 HP / 110 Atk / 120 Def / 130 SpA / 90 SpD / 70 Spe

Fire/Steel
Ability: Flash Fire/Flame Body
91 HP / 90 Atk / 106 Def / 130 SpA / 106 SpD / 77 Spe

It lives EQ from Adamant Lando-T or LO Jolly Chomp which not even Shuca Heatran can accomplish. STAB Steam Eruption is way better than Earth Power as a second move. Volcanion actually has the highest non-mega sAtt of Water types and is the only Fire type besides Zard-X that can handle Water well outside of Sun(and it actually gets healed from it).
I mean it is just theorymon, but I'm definitely going to run Heatran's SubProtect set on Volcanion when it comes out. The speed tier is slightly annoying, and the little lack of special bulk+electric and rock weaknesses will be the only downsides over tran imo.

Edit: Forgot spread mod on EQ. I'm dumb
 
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youngjake93 said:
Ok no way in hell that Volcanion is mediocre. It is like Heatran++

Water/Fire
Ability: Water Absorb
80 HP / 110 Atk / 120 Def / 130 SpA / 90 SpD / 70 Spe

Fire/Steel
Ability: Flash Fire/Flame Body
91 HP / 90 Atk / 106 Def / 130 SpA / 106 SpD / 77 Spe

It lives EQ from Adamant Lando-T or LO Jolly Chomp which not even Shuca Heatran can accomplish. STAB Steam Eruption is way better than Earth Power as a second move. Volcanion actually has the highest non-mega sAtt of Water types and is the only Fire type besides Zard-X that can handle Water well outside of Sun(and it actually gets healed from it).
I mean it is just theorymon, but I'm definitely going to run Heatran's SubProtect set on Volcanion when it comes out. The speed tier is slightly annoying, and the little lack of special bulk+electric and rock weaknesses will be the only downsides over tran imo.
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Yeah
I also want to point out that base 110 atk is pretty good, so a mixed set may even be possible for breaking through specaly bulky threats. I'll try to get some calcs to edit in later
 
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Diancie seems just decent, but Volcanion and Hoopa have a lot of potential in conjunction with Trick Room. I would greatly prefer a Hoopa set of

Hoopa @ Sitrus Berry
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpDef
Quiet nature
0 Spe IVs
~Hyperspace hole
~Shadow Ball
~Focus Blast
~Trick Room

which takes advantage of its stats with much more efficiency. Plus you can even make Magician do stuff after you consume a Sitrus and try to steal another. Unfortunately, x4 weakness to Ghost and Dark really sucks, since Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak are everywhere and TR is not gonna help with that.


Volcanion seems pretty good too, with probably just that set that you put up. The most prominent thing about it is that it checks Mega Charizard Y pretty well offensively, and has little trouble dealing with Heatran either. Unfortunately it doesn't have the long list of resistances like Heatran does, but oh well.
 
youngjake93 said:
It lives EQ from Adamant Lando-T or LO Jolly Chomp which not even Shuca Heatran can accomplish.
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Just gonna leave this here.

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Heatran: 276-326 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Heatran: 234-276 (72.4 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Anyhow, yes Volcanion looks really nice overall and Water absorb is OP on it. I just feel like in the grand scheme, it's a bit mediocre overall, but we will see once they are realeased just how well they perform in Doubles.
 
Outside of Hoopa, all of these sets are just like "let's throw moves + Sitrus together, they'll work well enough for now." I have some ideas for the others though ;)

I seriously think that Hoopa is in fact the biggest threat in the pack though - if Hyperspace Hole does in fact break protection, it'll make an incredible supporter for spread attackers like CharY and Mega Gardevoir with its Scarf set - and off of 150 base Special Attack it's not just a tool, it's threatening in its own right. Too bad base 70 loses to Skymin though...
 
Arcticblast said:
Outside of Hoopa, all of these sets are just like "let's throw moves + Sitrus together, they'll work well enough for now." I have some ideas for the others though ;)
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it's funny because sitrus berry is like the perfectly forged item for both Volcanobro and Carbink 2.0 but this fool is complaining anyway =]

Anyways I think bulky Volcanion is going to be a popular option to counter rain and sun teams; Politoed, Charizard, and Ludicolo all sort of just lose to it. (and also it gets a boosted stab move from both so it doesn't give that many shits about the weather.

Diancie is obviously going to be a new option for setting Trick Room, which like all the others also unfortunately gets anally raped by Bisharp :(

Hoopa looks like an amazing offensive Pokemon with that juicy base 150 SpA, and will probably do well to blast through its counters. I expect to see mostly Scarf or on Semi-Trick Room. maybe some creative bulky spread that beats a lot of bulky offensive mons could work but I just think it would lose to too many common threats. It has great defensive and offensive synergy with Fighting-types btw !_!
 
Dunno how I feel about Hoopa given that it gets boned by Bisharp, whose usage has been increasing for some time now, and Tyranitar has little to fear too. The whole breaking protect thing is nice though, can definitely see some cool strategic benefits to that (and then you're guaranteed to take their item due to magician). Looking forward to Volcanion the most tho, Diancie looks subpar really with only 100 offenses, and that signature move is amazing (a rain backed move with 30% burn and the same power as hydro pump). Hopefully it gets heat wave, having a spread move would make it even cooler.
 
Delibird is Amazing said:
Always run sludge wave instead of bomb on volcanion. lower chance of poison=more shit to burn.
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Yeah, and it's it's only special spread move. The problems with using it though is that poison kinda completely sucks as a non STAB offensive type, and the fact that you will exclusively be using that move with a steel or poison type to avoid damaging / poising an ally.
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I think Volcanion is going to be viable on a sand storm team. I thought of a decent of an offensive core for sand teams using Volcanion

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Protect
Volcanion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Sludge
- Overheat
- Weather Ball

The purpose of this team is to get in under sand storm and proceed to kill everything. Excadrill has good coverage, and Volcanion is only walled by water absorb palpitoed and storm drain gastrodon. With a choice scarf, Volcanion is fast enough to out speed many threats and damage or KO them. Excadrill can weaken the opponent with iron head or earthquake while Volcanion can score the KO. I cannot test this yet (sadly), but I think Volcanion will find it's ways into a lot of my teams.
 
Hoopa can get around Bisharp with Sub if it really wants. It forces your opponent into a mind game, and if you win, you slam Bisharp safely with Focus Blast. You'll need Speed EVs to do it though, and probably a Timid nature to be safe. Sub won't work against Mega Kang though; even the second hit will annihilate it. Still, the Scarf set or offensive TR set look promising, as well as a simple Sub sweeper with Tailwind support. The bonus of using Hoopa over other Pokemon for Tailwind sweeping is that with Hyperspace Hole, only Pokemon with resists or immunity to it can afford to Protect/Detect stall Tailwind turns.

I'm not actually excited for Diancle. I don't expect it to be good. Yes, Fairy is a great defensive typing, but Rock is horrendous. It throws away many potential match-ups against common Pokemon. The abundance of EQ, Rotom-W, and you now have no hope of surviving Steel-type attacks, even against a burned Scizor. Whilst the Fire-type resist is good, it does expose you to Mega Zard's Solarbeam and Heatran's Earth Power - note 252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 236-278 (77.6 - 91.4%) - guaranteed 2HKO, but that's a large hit to be taking for a defensive Pokemon. Don't get me wrong, Diamond Storm is a brilliant move, 100 base power that hits both opponents without hitting your ally. The Defense boost is a bit slow though; Diance will be taking hits before getting a chance for a boost and it'll still take it's share of damage from a physical super-effective STAB. Diance is essentially Carbink that can actually deal damage, and I don't think the dealing damage part is enough to make it a big threat. It's stand out move is TR, and we already have many other bulky users for the job who have better typing, better bulk, better movepool and/or better offenses.
 
Delibird is Amazing said:
Always run sludge wave instead of bomb on volcanion. lower chance of poison=more shit to burn.
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hell no sludge wave hits your partner...

edit @ below: classic nollan =]

"the ability to deal a lot of damage while applying immense offensive pressure is completely unmatched"
 
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Hoopa is definitely the most dangerous of the three in my eyes. While it is frail physically, the ability to deal a lot of damage while applying immense offensive pressure is completely unmatched (Pinsir doesn't even come close). Threats like Kangaskhan can just wreck things alongside Hoopa (and Hoopa is perfectly capable of erasing any Ghosts from the field bar Shadow Sneak). I can easily see this thing as top tier, if not straight-up overpowered. Granted this is me talking and I tend to exaggerate things, but yeah anyone who isn't scared by this thing should look over it again imo. It even has TR... well it makes full TR viable so tenno complaints there

Volcanion has the best design by far, but I really just don't see it making the top tiers. It's great bulk and unique typing allow it to stand out, but Electric, Ground, and Rock weakness leaves it vulnerable to Rotom-Wash especially, not to mention things like Landorus-T can pick it off with some prior damage. Because of this I don't think it'll work out too well as a bulky attacker, but I definitely think it can do work with some proper support (or maybe even Choice Scarf). Most importantly however is its ability to obliterate Pwnemon's Gen 6 team builds. I would definitely recommend those bent on besting him in combat like finally and fangame to use this Pokemon as it will do work against him (you'll still lose, but will look like a boss anyway).

Diancie...lol

Anyone who thinks this thing is good is being tricked by the mighty Zoroark, simple as that. Weakness to Ground, Steel, Grass, Water, two of which you will see in every match, the other two you will see in almost every match. And it has to go mixed unless you want to rely on AncientPower. Unless you some really legitimate reason to use it over Chandelure, Cresselia, Jellicent, even Aromatisse tbh, please just don't.

Honestly its just complete Grimer, there I said it
 
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Nollan said:
Hoopa is definitely the most dangerous of the three in my eyes. While it is frail physically, the ability to deal a lot of damage while applying immense offensive pressure is completely unmatched (Pinsir doesn't even come close). Threats like Kangaskhan can just wreck things alongside Hoopa (and Hoopa is perfectly capable of erasing any Ghosts from the field bar Shadow Sneak). I can easily see this thing as top tier, if not straight-up overpowered. Granted this is me talking and I tend to exaggerate things, but yeah anyone who isn't scared by this thing should look over it again imo. It even has TR... well it makes full TR viable so tenno complaints there

Volcanion has the best design by far, but I really just don't see it making the top tiers. It's great bulk and unique typing allow it to stand out, but Electric, Ground, and Rock weakness leaves it vulnerable to Rotom-Wash especially, not to mention things like Landorus-T can pick it off with some prior damage. Because of this I don't think it'll work out too well as a bulky attacker, but I definitely think it can do work with some proper support (or maybe even Choice Scarf). Most importantly however is its ability to obliterate Pwnemon's Gen 6 team builds. I would definitely recommend those bent on besting him in combat like finally and fangame to use this Pokemon as it will do work against him (you'll still lose, but will still look like a boss anyway).

Diancie...lol

Anyone who thinks this thing is good is being tricked by the mighty Zoroark, simple as that. Weakness to Ground, Steel, Grass, Water, two of which you will see in every match, the other two you will see in almost every match. And it has to go mixed unless you want to rely on AncientPower. Unless you some really legitimate reason to use it over Chandelure, Cresselia, Jellicent, even Aromatisse tbh, please just don't.

Honestly its just complete Grimer
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But Heatran has almost the same stats, a crippling 4x weakness to Ground plus common weaknesses in Fighting and Water. It is also especially weak to Rotom-W and wayyyyy weaker to Landorus-T(it can neither OHKO Volcanion nor switch in on it, nor risk Fake Out from its partner). Last I checked, Heatran is S tier?
 
youngjake93 said:
But Heatran has almost the same stats, a crippling 4x weakness to Ground plus common weaknesses in Fighting and Water. It is also especially weak to Rotom-W and wayyyyy weaker to Landorus-T(it can neither OHKO Volcanion nor switch in on it, nor risk Fake Out from its partner). Last I checked, Heatran is S tier?
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Now the comparison with Heatran is imo a bit flawed. Heatran's typing allows it to wall Charizard-Y which is a key advantage. It also resists Dragon, Grass, Normal, Flying, Poison (which no one uses bar Venusaur so you could just say it doesn't matter, but meh) and Psychic. Defensively Volcanion really only stands out in that it is immune to Water, neutral to Fighting, and can tank one unboosted EQ (one). Offensively Volcanion can't hit Water or Dragon hard at all. One of Volcanion's biggest advantages over Heatran in the defensive aspect (which is key for Substitute which from what I can tell is what you are implying would make Volcanion top tier) is ruined in that like Heatran it is walled by Water-types, which is even worse given the most common one can hit it hard. In that aspect Heatran simply outclasses it. So my general thinking is that its offensive Water STAB is its best distinguishing trait. That's where the fact that its weak to what it hits hard becomes a setback as since its slow it will get hit first, and pretty hard as well.

So basically a huge difference is that Heatran isn't trying to beat things it is weak to defensively in order to stand out (it also has ERUPTION which in my view is a key reason for its S ranking). Now this is just my opinion and could be completely wrong, but that's basically why I don't see it as a top tier.
 
Enough of new mons, another thing that has been leaked recently is this shit.
8guYW.jpg

From what I've seen these are gonna be available on Zygarde sometime in the future and I think it will finally give it the niche that it has been looking for in the Doubles metagame. Both of these moves promise to be pretty solid and allow it to take on two new roles.

With Thousand Waves, it will be able to assist a partner Pokemon on setting up on weaker threats or Pokemon that can't really do a whole lot back to it or even set up a couple of Coils or Dragon Dances itself. I personally think this is really cool since it will potentially increase the pool of potential setup sweepers in Doubles sinec at the moment, not many Pokemon can afford to run those kinds of moves. It also provides a new option for everyone's favorite strategy, Perish Trap!

Thousand Arrows is pretty ballin' since everything in Doubles seems to run Levitate, it might finally make Rotom less of a bitch to face which would bring a smile to my face since I hate that smug little washing machine. I'm unsure weather it's effective against Flying-types but it'd be great if it was. It's a shame Zygarde doesn't have an immunity to Ground-type moves itself but I feel it will still work well with partners like Landorus-T and Sand Rush Excadrill since it has the natural bulk to take some Earthquakes.
 
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After combing around a bit, it appears they hit both opponents, similar to Land's Wrath.

Could have sworn I saw screenshots saying they hit all adjacent Pokemon, but I guess I was wrong. Either way, PS is wrong too.

Yo Kaphotics, think you can clear this up before we get back on track?
 
Diancie <3...it's like the new CM cress...my move usage would be a special set:
- Trick room
-Dazzling gleam
- psychic
- calm mind
Physical set:
- Diamond Storm
- gyro ball
- Trick room
-sharpen/Explosion/guard split (there's nothing else to put here)
 
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