Destiny Bond/Focus Punch Combo

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Farewell

Not sure where else it goes, but I just tried something pretty new (for me). Mods/Admins can move it if needed.

I realized that Destiny Bond lasts both the turn its used and the turn after its used (before your next attack happens), so if you use Destiny Bond one turn, and Focus Punch the following turn, but die due to the foe's attack on your Focus Punch turn, Destiny Bond still brings the opponent down.

Destiny Bond also works great with Focus Punch because it can cause Switches, Substitutes and your opponents opting for other non-damaging moves while your Pokemon proceedes to hide behind the Destiny Bond. I use this with Gengar as he is fast enough to abuse Destiny Bond.

Also, works with Roar, Whirlwind, Trick Room, etc. and moves that have a negative priority, or as long as your foe kills you before you have attacked on the turn after using Destiny Bond.

The reason I acknowledged this combo is because Focus Punch relies on not being hit, so unless your opponent wants to kill themselves after Destiny Bond, then Focus Punch should get pulled off. This also works if you have been Taunted after using Destiny Bond, so the next turn you are going first but have to use an attack and make Destiny Bond wear off, well, with Focus Punch, you can force yourself to go last and make Destiny Bond last a little longer (wearing off after your opponent attacks, taking them down with you).

For example, since Gengar is fast, many people think that you go before them if you decide to stop using Destiny Bond. (Say someone uses a Substitute), and they are trying to get you to attack rather than use Destiny Bond. Well, with Focus Punch you can force your faster Gengar to go 2nd while your foe attacks Gengar. Since Focus Punch forces the user to go last, you are making Destiny Bond last longer, and in turn, if they attack you even on the turn after you used Destiny Bond and you are normally faster, then they will go before Destiny Bond wears off and get KOed with you.

Works in battle, I tried it. I used Destiny Bond one turn, and the opponent tries to Substitute to stall out Destiny Bond. When they think its outta PP I use Focus Punch and score a KO because I made Destiny Bond last longer by going second.
 
Yup, it's a decent combo. It's not an accident that both Qwilfish and Cacturne learned both Revenge and Destiny Bond in the transition to Emerald.

EDIT: No, this does not belong in the research thread. No game mechanic has been discovered here, just an application of known mechanics. Also, in future, I think it would be a good idea to give threads like this a more descriptive name. Rather than 'Discovered combo', you could call it 'Destiny Bond/Focus Punch Combo' or something. Also, you might want to try it out in a lot of battles to find its strengths and weaknesses before posting. Find out the Pokémon that can best pull it off, etc.
 
This isn't new. A set like this is specifically in the analysis for Cacturne, and I've used it often to great effect.

EDIT:
Smogon Analysis said:
Destiny Bond:

- Endure
- Destiny Bond
- Focus Punch
- Sucker Punch / Spikes
Item: Salac Berry
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

This is a bit of an odd moveset but it usually KOs one of your opponent's Pokémon in exchange for Cacturne's life. It uses Endure to activate a Salac Berry and then it uses Destiny Bond to try and takes the opponent out with it. If for some reason they didn't KO you, you use alternate Focus Punch and Destiny Bond until they do. Sucker Punch takes out some faster enemies (especially Ghosts like Gengar), or you can try throwing out some Spikes on the turn you could be using Focus Punch.
Click to expand...
 
Interesting combo. Basically forces your opponent to either kill your pokemon and himself with it, or eat a Focus Punch in the face. However, I think this is more of a gimmick set imo. Substitute is probably better overall.
 
Focus Bond. Damn does that have a ring to it.

Yeah, it seems pretty good in theory and practice, but as a whole, I don't think and ghost would have problems with it. Spiritomb will gladly stall out both moves, with neutrality to Shadow Ball as well.
 
How many Pokemon can affectively use both?

Gengar: Has weak FP though, but is fast
Gallade: The only other one I can think of, and is definately worth a try

Cool find!
 
MetaNite said:
How many Pokemon can affectively use both?

Gengar: Has weak FP though, but is fast
Gallade: The only other one I can think of, and is definately worth a try

Cool find!
Click to expand...


Dusknoir also deserves a mention, imagine if after the destiny bond they switch in tyranitar...
 
Cacturne is interesting user of both Destiny Bond and Focus Punch. Focus Punch hurts. In one of my Trick Room UU teams, I'm using Destiny Bond Mixed Sweeper Cacturne and it works. Also I can imagine set like Substitute/Focus Punch/Destiny Bond/PayBack or Sucker Punch being annoying in SandStorm teams.

EDIT: My dumb mistake.
 
I've used this before... Gallade and Cacturne are the only candidates here.

Something along the lines of:

Sub / Focus Punch / Sucker Punch / Destiny Bond.
 
Froslass can do something similar but with STAB Avalanche, and shares the same speed as Gengar. It also has access to Ice Shard.
 
Avalanche only doubles in power if you get hit (unlike Payback, which has no speed priority but doubles as long as you go last), so Destiny Bond completely defeats the purpose of using that. You'd be better off using Ice Beam or Shadow Ball, which can still capitalize on a free turn you're given.

Might work decently in UU, where Sandstorm is extremely rare.
 
Syberia said:
Avalanche only doubles in power if you get hit (unlike Payback, which has no speed priority but doubles as long as you go last), so Destiny Bond completely defeats the purpose of using that. You'd be better off using Ice Beam or Shadow Ball, which can still capitalize on a free turn you're given.
Click to expand...

It doesn't defeat the purpose at all. If the opponent can't move before you (it has lower Speed, no priority moves, etc.), you can alternate between Destiny Bond and Revenge/Avalanche, denying your opponent the opportunity to safely KO you while getting off a 60-power move every other turn.

Frosslass uses Destiny Bond
Opponent can't safely KO

Opponent can't safely KO
Frosslass uses Avalanche

Frosslass uses Destiny Bond...

Because you effectively use Destiny Bond right after Avalanche, there's no point where your opponent can KO you without being KOed itself.

Of course, it begs the question of how many Pokémon in your metagame are slower than you AND don't have a priority move AND can't paralyze you, etc.

EDIT: Froslass also learns Thunder Wave, which might help it pull off this combo.
 
I'm assuming from that that it doesn't work if you use Destiny Bond, then attack again before you get hit?

That's the part I didn't know.
 
Quite an interesting combo. This could go as another option in Gengar's SubPunching set- it would totally screw all Tyranitar switch-ins. It leaves you more vulnerable to bliss, but with a Lum Berry, you could keep offensive attacks away with Destiny Bond and hopefully do some damage with Focus Punch while it Twaves, then Focus Punch again if it attempts to use Twave again. Gengar will be pretty useless then tho.
Is Gengar's Focus Punch a 2 or 3HKO on bliss or what? The answer totally changes its workability.
 
luxormaniac said:
Is Gengar's Focus Punch a 2 or 3HKO on bliss or what? The answer totally changes its workability.
Click to expand...

Focus Punch can be ev'd to be a 2hko on Blissey. I could see a Bond/sub/focus punch/shadow ball Gengar working to play mind games with the opponent. Sub to prevent status, bond to stop attacks, focus punch to take advantage on Bond, and Shadow Ball for coverage and Stab.

however, the stragety dies as soon as Gengar gets paralyzed or something faster comes in, so the set is gimmick at best
 
Blissey and Tyranitar are going to be the only things even dented by a Focus Punch from Gengar. In most other cases, your better off just using Shadow Ball then trying that combo. I'd stick to Gallade or Cacturne
 
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