Damage reducing berries.

IstheCakeReallyaLie

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=landshark rape​

Damage reducing berries, in my opinion, are underused. If you give a Chople Berry to a Normal-type, for instance, you get no weaknesses the first turn. There are many, many other examples and sets that they can be used on, but typically, they get abandoned in favor of Life Orbs, Choice Whatevers, misc. items, and Lefties.

What kind of sets are these useful on? Can tanks benefit from them, even though they lose Lefties? Do Pokemon like, say, Exeggutor benefit from them more with Harvest?

TL;DR: Sort of like that "Are gems better than we think?" thread.
 
There really aren't that many pokemon who can really benefit enough from them to make them worth using. The only examples I can think of off the top my head would be something like Salamence running Yache and Tyranitar running Chople. I guess there may be situational things like running chople on lucario in order to survive a mach punch, but you'll probably miss out on important 1hko's by not using life orb.
 
You really only see those types of berries on pokemon x4 weak to a common type- and even then, other items are most likely still more common. This is demonstrated by Ttar, who occasionally uses Chople but mostly uses Lefties- as well as Scizor, which Occa is occasionally on. There are a few reasons why these berries are not as common as you think:

1. They only last one turn. Sure, it lets you take a hit, but why would it matter if you can't do enough back? Pokemon like Ttar / Scizor only use it because that narrow one gap turn space is all they need to OHKO before they are hit again, or in Scizor's case set up. If you're going to put Chople on a Stoutland to take bulky Conkeldurr's Mach Punch, then you'd better be able to KO it afterwards, or it's pointless.

2. They only help on type. Pokemon have numerous weaknesses, and covering just one for only one turn does not seem worth the item slot. You could give Latios a Colbur berry to live a pursuit, but that only covers its Dark type weakness and doesn't help with Ice / Ghost / Bug / Dragon. People prefer power boosting or health boosting items instead of covering just one of their weaknesses.

3. People think a lot of items are just better. Why use a defensive berry when you're offensive and can KO before you faint with a choice scarf? Why decrease the damage of a single move as a wall when you can opt for leftovers to heal yourself and 'decrease' damage for the whole match?

These kinds of berries lack the traits of a good, useful item- wide coverage, multiple uses, and general stability. Some pokemon have weaknesses so frightening or set up moves so useful that they CAN opt for these berries- but most of the time, this is not the case.
 
You really don't see type-resist berries in this metagame mainly because there are so many other items. Salamence and Dragonite hardly ever run Yache because it is simply not worth it in a metagame where you have to hit as hard as possible.

The one exception is specially defensive Tyranitar. While Electrolyte is right in that many Tyranitars run Leftovers, I think that Chople Berry is its best possible item. It allows it to trap/kill Gengar and Reuniclus more effectively, forces Tornadus-T to U-Turn out, and can guarantee Stealth Rock against Keldeo. While Leftovers is nice for recovery, Chople Berry makes Tyranitar much more useful.
 
I really only think item berries are only really useful on Pokemon that need that extra turn to do their intended purpose. Stuff like Chople Tyranitar and even Passho / Shuca Heatran and Colbur Azelf from 4th gen was there to guarantee Stealth Rock against the worst lead matchups in each respective scenario. The reason why Garchomp is so effective as a user of Yache Berry is because of how potent Garchomp is as a sweeper. Factoring in Sand Veil and Garchomp's already decent bulk, it's pretty rare you're going to be OHKOing Garchomp with anything that isn't an Ice move. But yeah, that one turn of setup is all Garchomp really needs because after a Swords Dance there are very few things who want to switch into it's dual STAB, and even less after it's boosted. Another good example and is increasing in usage from what I've seen is Tanga Berry Deoxys-D, who guarantees Stealth Rock and even Spikes in some scenarios against the common Genesect leads. The reason for the Berry here is that Deoxys-D is a great lead for Hyper Offense, and these types of team tend to be reliant on hazards to break through things like Dragonite.

Generally I'd avoid these Berries for any Pokemon trying to perform a defensive role. While it's all good being able to live a super effective hit better, generally if you're a defensive Pokemon this won't kill you anyway. This means you can be left with a half health wall with no Leftovers. This becomes even worse when you lack Recovery, but generally you shouldn't be using these items anyway if you have Recovery. The main downfall is the one time use, and after that you're pretty much left with nothing. It's also important because these berries do not cover the other weaknesses of the Pokemon like Electrolyte stated, so you can easily be running a Shuca Berry for your Heatran to get up Stealth Rock, but you still won't get up Stealth Rock against lead Terrakions and such. You may often find yourself giving a Pokemon a Berry to deal with one move or one Pokemon, and when that Pokemon doesn't appear on your opponent's team, it can be a waste. Generally these are most effective when a Pokemon's weakness is so common, or on suicide leads such as Deoxys-D as there are few better items to run.

On most Pokemon, I would advise against these berries as there are far better options to run, but that isn't saying these berries have their uses. That extra guaranteed survivability against a common threat can be all you need to set up that Dragon Dance or Stealth Rock that can decide the fate of a battle.
 
In the past I was using Babiri Berry on Dragon Dance Tyranitar to survive one Bullet Punch from Scizor, and not only avoid him cutting my sweep short, but also get rid of one threat to my team.

But for one reason or another Dragon Dance Tyranitar is no longer viable (for example, Babiri Berry does not protect you from Techniloom Mach Punch), so I can't imagine another use for damage reducing berries that wasn't already said.

Even on pokémon that using such berry was a viable choice, except the set above I always used another item such as Leftovers or Life Orb. Being able to survive one super-effective attack is not worth the loss of other more useful items. Also, most of time these damage reducing berries are used to cover a 4x weakness. You are still 2x weak to that type factoring the berry - if your Pokémon isn't bulky enough to take the attack even if it is super effective, then it's even less worth using. I remember how many times I could OHKO opposing Tyranitar with my CB Terrakion with Close Combat, even after factoring in the Chople Berry damage reduction. For those who don't believe:

252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Chople Berry Tyranitar (Neutral): 133% - 157% (540 - 636 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

That's the reason why I think that using damage reducing berries is not worth 99% of time.
 
I have decent personal experience using Max HP Yache Berry Landorus-T as a Stealth Rock setter. Works well in terms of surviving most unstabbed unboosted ice beams, and can also bluff a Scarf Set. I will say however, it would have been just as useful to use a lum berry in some situations, for example to avoid getting paralyzed by a body slam Jirachi.

All in all, resist berries are not the best but are useful to keep your Pokemon alive when it has one job to do, like lay hazards, so i guess i could generalize and say the berries are more useful on HO. These berries work great in VGC though, where Item Clause exists and there are less turns, so you don't necessarily need a long term item.
 
I've been also looking into damage reducing berries, but for a different purpose.

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Heracross @ Ganlon Berry
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Guts / Moxie
Jolly Nature
~ Swords Dance
~ Close Combat
~ Megahorn
~ Natural Gift

This gives Heracross one shot at smashing Gliscor, Landorus, and Dragonite and Salamence who come in on predicted CC´s / Megarhorns thinking it's a scarf set.

Of course Gengar still walls you to hell and back, but nobody really expects an ice attack from a Heracross so it can get one surprise KO per match, and that may be just enough to tip the scales in your favor.

Ganlon isn't "technically" a damage reducing berry, but yeah.

@below:

... I herped derped hurped.
 
ClubbingSealCub said:
Yache berry lets it survive a random faster Ice attack that may kill it (Mamo Ice Shard, for example), but it's too situational. Ganlon gives way better damage.
Click to expand...
The berries only have their normal effect if it's a super effective attack, so Yache does nothing for Heracross.
 
Jimbon already mentioned Shuca Berry, which was practically completely replaced by Air Balloon in 5th gen. In 4th gen, that was one of the most common super effective attack reducing berries around, and any of the other ones like Babiri Tyranitar or Colbur Azelf can still be used, but 5th gen introduced new options for items. As far as I can tell, the only instances of these berries in 5th gen were carried over from 4th gen sets
 
Type reducing berries work in much the same way as gems. Despite appearing to be defensive playstyles revolving around them are very offensively oriented. You'd use them for very specific matchups in order to beat common counters.

Garchomp is a perfect example. It's got some sweet ass speed so you're usually beating it with priority. Because priority attacks are weak you want one that's super effective guaranteed to KO. Ice shard is the only option for this scenario. Slap a Yache on and suddenly you live the ice shard and OHKO back prolonging your sweep.

I find it works best on offensive mons with few weaknesses like scizor. It let's you live a weaker fire attack which would only OHKO because of the 4x weakness and land a crucial kill. Of course you could do something stupid like slap dragon resist berry on full physical sableye and get a crucial WoW on a salamence after a dance... I should calc that actually.

Edit: nevermind it has to be a weakness and doesn't simply reduce damage.
 
Alright, here's the deal with the usage of type-reducing berries.

1) lack of exploration. Okay, there's been experimentation on things like YacheChomp, but have people actually TRIED type-reducing berries? I mean be honest here, in practice, are you going to go for the unexplored, less tested option, or are you going to go for defined, more tested options such as Life Orb and Leftovers? Most people will choose the latter. It's human nature, the thought process behind many of the things people do.

2) lack of use after they are consumed. I'll give you a situation. I've got a Tyranitar. I have two choices: Chople Berry or Leftovers. What am I going to ask myself? The obvious question is, why don't I just get a Fighting resist such as Landorus-T that I can use as a pivot to gain momentum, and gain the extremely helpful passive recovery from Leftovers that Tyranitar loves. The fact of the matter is, once you consume the item, you have nothing. If the super effective move still kills, oh well, guess what, you wasted your item slot. It was a non-factor. This, I believe, is the main reason that type-reducing berriesnare not used very much at all.

That's my two reasons. Feel free to dispute them.
 
When scizor was powerful in bw1, I used the steel-super-effective berry on terrakion to take a bulletpunch and ko with cc. With scizor gone, terrakion could do work on the rest of the team. It wasn't very effective in the long run for a lot of reasons. For one, terrakion lived with about 10% hp.
 
I've experimented with Shuca berry physical Jirachi, and it was a powerful lure for things like dragonite gliscor Landorus. On my sun team, it could threaten ttar with iron head, and take an eq to hit back with ice punch. Worked well in bw1, but I haven't used it since.

Just giving props, I borrowed the idea of ShucaRachi from a RMT in gen 1, I'll post a link if I can find it

EDIT: found it, it's Katakiri's "Prelude to Light"
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3447445
 
Well there was a mention of Passho Berry Heatran earlier, but it can definitely be expanded upon. Those of you who have used weather trapper Heatran definitely understand how annoying it is to send out your Heatran and trap the opposing Politoed perfectly and suddenly realize that it is equipped with a Choice Scarf, so you simply have to switch out anyways. However, Heatran with a Passho Berry ensures that you can trap Politoed, get Sunny Day up, and then kill it off with SolarBeam.

Like Zacchaeus said earlier, Shuca is basically non-existant in this gen due to Air Balloon, which just lets you avoid Ground-type moves instead of reducing the damage. Of course the downside to this is that any old attack destroys the Air Balloon, but as a plus, it also lets you avoid Spikes and Toxic Spikes.

I'm personally not a fan of Yache Berry Dragons. I think I'd rather use Leftovers on my SubSD Garchomp, or a Lum Berry on my Salamence or Dragonite. For the former, Leftovers helps Garchomp grab a few extra boosts against opponents that cannot break the Substitute (especially if it runs 252 HP, but that's uncommon), while for our Dragon / Flying type friends, Lum Berry allows them to escape feared Scald burns, Toxic poisoning that may be the opponent's only means of stopping a sweep, or Body Slam paralysis from Jirachi. I guess Yache Berry is useful for Mamoswine and...Weavile, but I definitely think they are not common enough to warrant the use of it.
 
Yache serves more of a purpose on Garchomp's (or any dragons) that lack Substitute. It gives them some form of insurance against a fast Ice-Type move and prevents it from ruining their sweep. Similarly Haban Berry has utility in preventing Choice Scarf'd Dragon-Types from revenging you. I do agree that Shuca Berry has little use, but it is nice for feigning Choice Items, while still retaining that resistance unlike Air Balloon which immediately alerts the opponent to your Item and can be broken pretty easily. Tyranitar is also probably the most effective user of Chople Berry at the moment, letting it tank a Focus Blast and trap/ko threats like Reuniclus or Gengar. Tanga Berry has use on Deoxys-D, as it can weaken Genesect's U-Turn's and lets it lay down more hazards.

I would have to agree with Jimbon in that berries should only be used on Pokemon who really need that extra turn to do their purpose, or can use the berry to neutralize a common sweep ending move.
 
The problem I see with using Berries over Items like Leftovers or Life Orb is that they are too dependent on the situation. With lefties you are always recovering 6%, with Life Orb you are always getting a 30% boost with your attacks. You are very dependent on the pokemon you are facing to have the certain move that you berry weakens. So you choose between this or having an item that will always assist you in the battle. On top of that many pokemon would just rather have another item, and a lot of pokemon need another item to become effective. So that cuts down many pokemon who would even want to use it. I'm all in favor for using it, problem is how often it works.
 
That is why berries should be used on Pokemon who really need it to perform their role, like Tyranitar needing the Chople Berry to trap Gengar so something else can sweep. Berries rarely perform to their full potential if they are thrown on a Pokemon without a specific purpose in mind. Often times other Items are better, but berries gain their merit from those specific instances on those specific Pokemon.
 
If something. really needs to survive a given hit, it should always use Focus Sash.
Berries are only better because they work from under full health.
Also, in my short time as a battler, I would say that the majority of the time, the opponent would rather hit with a couple of boosted, neutral hits than a super effective hit that is only slightly stronger.
 
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