Crobat [Rain Dance]

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The 1 and Only Lady Gaga

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/crobat

[SET]
Name: Rain Dance
Move #1: Rain Dance
Move #2: Taunt
Move #3: U-turn/Hypnosis
Move #4: Brave Bird/Roost
Held Item: Damp Rock/Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 104 HP / 152 Def / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on site:
- Very effective Rain Dance lead, in the same vein as Electrode in UU, with a speedy Taunt.
- Unlike Electrode however, Crobat can just U-turn out to a Swift Swimmer when he sets up the Rain and doesn't have to sacrifice himself.
- It also has useful 4x resistances to Bug, Fighting and Grass and immunity to Ground as well as decent bulk with Roost to set up Rain Dance multiple times.
- Unlike Electrode, he has the surprise value, because a lead Electrode is an obvious Rain Dancer.

Additional Comments:
- Damp Rock is the primary choice of an item for obvious reasons; to extend the Rain to 8 turns, or 6 turns for your Swift Swimmer.
- Leftovers is a suitable substitute for survivability.
- Brave Bird for offense, Roost for survivability. Take your pick.
- Hypnosis can be used over U-turn to shut down a troublesome Pokemon like Tyranitar, but the accuracy is a major turn-off, so U-turn remains the primary option.
- The defensive EVs are there to always survive a Stone Edge from a lead Aerodactyl (84.3%-99.7%), as well as survive a Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch from Metagross leads, meaning to say you can safely Taunt Metagross leads, although against Aerodactyl leads you are better off U-turning to break the Focus Sash. See the Counters section for more information on dealing with Aerodactyl.

Teammates and Counters:
- Swift Swimmers like Kingdra, Omastar, Kabutops etc. make obvious teammates.
- Technically there is no "counter" to this set, but Aerodactyl leads can be a problem if they win the Speed tie and Taunt you first, although if they go for the kill with Stone Edge you will always survive with the given EV spread, and you will either accomplish your job by setting up Rain Dance, or stop him from setting up Stealth Rock with Taunt. If you win the speed tie the next turn you have accomplished both, at the cost of losing Crobat. But if by luck you win both speed ties, your Crobat is still alive, but on the whole luck is not to be relied on, you are better off U-turning on sight, breaking his Focus Sash in the process, and switch in Scizor, who will be an awesome teammate for reasons stated below.
- Tyranitar and Abomasnow are obvious, turning the rain into sandstorm and hail respectively, although Abomansnow isn't staying in on Crobat anyway, but Tyranitar is a huge problem.
- For these reasons, Scizor is a great teammate as it can combat Aerodactyl, Tyranitar and Abomasnow without much problems.
- The occasional TrickScarf leads such as Azelf, Starmie and Jirachi are a major hinderance, so getting something with a Choice Scarf isn't a bad idea to absorb the Trick.
 
A few months ago, there was a weather set almost exactly like this set, and it was removed for some reason. Can you care to comply why this shouldn't just be in the AC comments of the standard Crobat set?
 
AccidentalGreed said:
A few months ago, there was a weather set almost exactly like this set, and it was removed for some reason. Can you care to comply why this shouldn't just be in the AC comments of the standard Crobat set?
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Removed...? This set wasn't on the Rejected Set Compendium. As said on the set, Crobat makes a great Rain Dance lead, in the same vein as Electrode in UU, with a fast Taunt. Read the set for more details.
 
It undoubtably does make a good Rain Dance lead, but I personally don't see any real reason for it to have its own set in the analysis. I mean, there's what, a one move difference between this and the "Standard Bat" set?

I could understand it, perhaps, if this set and the standard bat are played differently, but frankly, they're not, since the point of both sets is to gain offensive momentum through a fast Taunt + U-Turn (with Rain Dance thrown in, on this set).
 
Windsong said:
It undoubtably does make a good Rain Dance lead, but I personally don't see any real reason for it to have its own set in the analysis. I mean, there's what, a one move difference between this and the "Standard Bat" set?

I could understand it, perhaps, if this set and the standard bat are played differently, but frankly, they're not, since the point of both sets is to gain offensive momentum through a fast Taunt + U-Turn (with Rain Dance thrown in, on this set).
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There is a difference in the EV spread, the "Standard Bat" set has the Attack EVs moved to Defense to guarantee survival against Aerodactyl's Stone Edge (84.3%-99.7%), as well as survive Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch from Metagross, one of the more troublesome leads Crobat will face, so as to guarantee a Rain Dance. This Crobat doesn't need to worry about KOing stuff, unlike the Standard Bat set, because Crobat's teammates will do the job for him.
 
Lady Gaga said:
There is a difference in the EV spread, the "Standard Bat" set has the Attack EVs moved to Defense to guarantee survival against Aerodactyl's Stone Edge (84.3%-99.7%), as well as survive Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch from Metagross, one of the more troublesome leads Crobat will face, so as to guarantee a Rain Dance. This Crobat doesn't need to worry about KOing stuff, unlike the Standard Bat set, because Crobat's teammates will do the job for him.
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Oh, okay. I failed to notice the alternate EVSpread when I posted my original reply, which I apologize for. ^_^

However, my viewpoint on the set in general still hasn't really changed that much. It would be easy to just Rain Dance and the bulkier EVSpread both on the Standard Bat set (definitely the EVSpread, even if Rain Dance doesn't get a mention for some absurd reason).
 
Windsong said:
Oh, okay. I failed to notice the alternate EVSpread when I posted my original reply, which I apologize for. ^_^

However, my viewpoint on the set in general still hasn't really changed that much. It would be easy to just Rain Dance and the bulkier EVSpread both on the Standard Bat set (definitely the EVSpread, even if Rain Dance doesn't get a mention for some absurd reason).
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Ah I see your point, but I believe Crobat is too good of a Rain Dancer for this set to merit it's own analysis. Well, let the QC members be the judge when they see this set.
 
To be honest I'd rather just have a mention of Rain Dance in the Crobat analysis, not sure that this warrants its own set; it's pretty much just the standard bat with Rain Dance is it not? Surviving Aerodactyl doesn't necessarily guarantee getting a Rain Dance off either due to Taunt (though in all likelyhood Aerodactyl would probably rather SR or Rock Slide/SE)

Anyway, I pretty much agree with Windsong.
 
panamaxis said:
To be honest I'd rather just have a mention of Rain Dance in the Crobat analysis, not sure that this warrants its own set; it's pretty much just the standard bat with Rain Dance is it not? Surviving Aerodactyl doesn't necessarily guarantee getting a Rain Dance off either due to Taunt (though in all likelyhood Aerodactyl would probably rather SR or Rock Slide/SE)

Anyway, I pretty much agree with Windsong.
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Yeah you don't guarantee a Rain Dance, although the odds are in your favour, 75% chance to set up Rain Dance. 50% chance to win the speed tie, and another 50% chance it won't Taunt you, so you have a 75% success rate. But since it isn't guaranteed, you're better off U-turning to the Scizor mentioned, then he will probably think it's a Bullet Punch and switch out, so use U-turn and go back to Crobat and set up Rain Dance. But even then not all battles have Aerodactyl leads. The only other seemingly troublesome lead is Metagross, in which you are certain to set up Rain Dance AND prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock, unless it Explodes, which no trainer in their right mind will do on a seemingly harmless Pokemon. Crobat is very efficient in accomplishing his job here, which is why I think it warrants it's own set. He can also do the same with Sunny Day and Heat Rock.
 
I also think that this doesn't deserve its own analysis. A mention of Rain Dance in Optonal Changes would be fine IMO.
 
Lady Gaga said:
Crobat is very efficient in accomplishing his job here, which is why I think it warrants it's own set. He can also do the same with Sunny Day and Heat Rock.
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I'm not saying Crobat isn't good at it's job, my point is this can all be said in one or two sentences, we don't need a whole analysis to say "Crobat can work well as a weather lead if the attack EVs are shifted to defense and can constistently set up rain/sun against everything but Aerodactyl."
 
panamaxis said:
I'm not saying Crobat isn't good at it's job, my point is this can all be said in one or two sentences, we don't need a whole analysis to say "Crobat can work well as a weather lead if the attack EVs are shifted to defense and can constistently set up rain/sun against everything but Aerodactyl."
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Oh... but shouldn't it be given some emphasis for being very effective? So far it's only listed in the Other Options, in the same league with gimmicky options like Screech, Giga Drain and Confuse Ray when it is clearly superior.
 
unless it Explodes, which no trainer in their right mind will do on a seemingly harmless Pokemon
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I know Metagross shouldn't blow up on Crobat, but Crobat is anything but seemingly harmless. In fact, I get the same reaction to Crobat leads as I do with Electrode ones: Weather is coming, prepare. Seriously, why else would you lead with Crobat (Although these days, it's not bad with all the Machamp leads running around).
 
shrang said:
I know Metagross shouldn't blow up on Crobat, but Crobat is anything but seemingly harmless. In fact, I get the same reaction to Crobat leads as I do with Electrode ones: Weather is coming, prepare. Seriously, why else would you lead with Crobat (Although these days, it's not bad with all the Machamp leads running around).
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I mean seemingly harmless to the Metagross. Because Brave Bird obviously doesn't do much damage, Hypnosis has the iffy 60% accuracy, and if they Taunt you they will believe they can KO you with Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch.

Why else lead with Crobat? The "Standard Bat" set also mentions it being a lead -.-

Really? Crobat gets the same reaction for you? Odd, there is no analysis on Crobat's sight that mentions it setting up weather, except on the Other Options where it is put it same league as gimmicky options like Screech and Confuse Ray.
 
Lady Gaga said:
Really? Crobat gets the same reaction for you? Odd, there is no analysis on Crobat's sight that mentions it setting up weather, except on the Other Options where it is put it same league as gimmicky options like Screech and Confuse Ray.
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It's mentioned pretty explicitly in the guide to Rain Offense, though. I like this set, but it's just unnecessary, in part because this set isn't massively different to the Standard Bat (you could note all of the changes in a sentence, as someone did above) and in part because all of the best moves and strategies for weather lead crobat in in the Rain Offense Guide.
 
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