Crobat in the Metagame

TheSpinner

Just wanted to discuss how the hell Crobat is a BL pokemon (Yes, I know it's based on usage, but how is he not used more often?)

Let's take a look at his stats:

HP: 85
Atk: 90
Def: 80
SpA: 70
SpD: 80
Spe: 130

He has solid HP / defense stats, decent attack, and amazing speed. 130 base speed makes him a member of the highest speed tier in OU (except Deoxys-S, but that's an exception to pretty much everything speed-wise in the OU environment). What jumps out at me here is the solid defenses with the 130 base speed. Virtually no other pokemon has such high speed, yet still can brag about having solid defense.

Let's take a look at his resistances/weaknesses/immunities.

Poison/Flying:
x2 weak: psychic, electric, ice, rock
x0.5 resistant: poison
x0.25 resistant: grass, fighting, bug
Immune: ground

Crobat has 3 4x resistances and an immunity. Both the resistances
and the immunity are very useful. Who doesn't want a 4x fighting resistance?
With this, and his base speed, he becomes an extremely viable Heracross counter.
He can switch into a Close Combat, survive with his HP and defenses, and outspeed Heracross.
He can also switch into many of the other threats in the Metagame who like to throw around close combats.
Once in, using his 4x resists or immunity, he can proceed to outspeed or sleep.

The thing here is his weaknesses often aren't seen on the same sets as his resists/immunities.
This means that the pokemon Crobat will be switching in on probably won't have something
that severely damages him.

A look at his support options:
Hypnosis
Taunt
Mean Look
Confuse Ray
Haze
U-Turn (Yes, I consider U-Turn support because of it's scouting ability).

There's alot here that Crobat can effectively use, especially because of his amazing base speed
and the fact that there's so much he can switch in on. Garchomp about to EQ you? Switch in, outspeed it, and put it
to sleep. Infernape throwing Close Combats around? Switch in, outspeed it, and sleep it.
Taunt can mess up stall teams very badly, Mean Look traps things that are locked into a
fighting/ground move - both of which Crobat either 4x resists or is immune to.
He has the fastest Confuse Ray in the game - everyone hates confusion. Also,
he can brag about having Haze and U-Turn. Use his fast speed to U-Turn and scout a switch in,
or Haze if your opponent has gotten one too many boosts.

Crobat's attack options: (the main ones)
Brave Bird
Pursuit
Air Slash/Aerial Ace
U-Turn
Hidden Powers

It may look small, but he is very good at doing what he is built for.
Switch in on a resist/immunity and pursuit them out. (HP fighting Azelf comes to mind).
Air Slash / Aerial Ace / Brave Bird reinforces the fact of how well he can deal with Heracross.
U-Turn lets him scout and get in a light hit.
Many people also overlook the Hidden Power. With 130 base speed and decent Sp. Atk,
He can really cause grief for some of the promiment threats as a revenge killer.
Garchomp : 4x weak to ice
Salamence: 4x weak to ice
Dragonite: 4x weak to ice
Heatran: 4x weak to ground

-The above all get outspeeded handily by Crobat. He can switch into EQ's from
Garchomp, Salamence, and Dragonite. For Heatran, he can switch into an Earth Power.
His Sp. Atk is a bit low, yes, but the fact that he can outspeed and hit many of the
major threats for 4x while having a ground immune is important.

Recovery options:
Roost

This thing can even recover. With his speed, he has the fastest roost in the game.
Not significant? If you think he's about to get Stone Edged/Ice Beamed, just outspeed with roost
and get rid of the weakness at the same time.

My point is that Crobat has so much potential. He plays a very solid and effective role on many teams.
A quote from the analysis As before, it seems likely that Crobat will skate that line between OU
and UU, but he certainly has tremendous potential if given a chance.


 
Nasty Plot? Choice Specs bat sounds fun. lol, wtf just happened, hp ice crobat switches into Scarfchomp.
 
I disagree, I don't think Crobat's speed does enough to make up for it's rather average stats (outside of speed) and move pool. Yes if has some helpful resistances but it also has some very common weaknesses and his average defensive stats don't help to compensate for this enough. I think BL is certainly the place Crobat will remain. I want to make it clear, I think he is a very good Pokemon, as I have used him on a few teams I've made, but I don't think he's quite as useful as some other standard guys. I do agree that he should get more love though.

TheSpinner said:
Just wanted to discuss how the hell Crobat is a BL pokemon (Yes, I know it's based on usage, but how is he not used more often?)

Let's take a look at his stats:

HP: 85
Atk: 90
Def: 80
SpA: 70
SpD: 80
Spe: 130

He has solid HP / defense stats, decent attack, and amazing speed. 130 base speed makes him a member of the highest speed tier in OU (except Deoxys-S, but that's an exception to pretty much everything speed-wise in the OU environment). What jumps out at me here is the solid defenses with the 130 base speed. Virtually no other pokemon has such high speed, yet still can brag about having solid defense.

True, but his defenses aren't that impressive really. Granted he is fast, but is that really enough to make up for his over-all average stats? And just as a side note, Deoxys-S defenses aren't that terrible.

Let's take a look at his resistances/weaknesses/immunities.

Poison/Flying:
x2 weak: psychic, electric, ice, rock
x0.5 resistant: poison
x0.25 resistant: grass, fighting, bug
Immune: ground

Crobat has 3 4x resistances and an immunity. Both the resistances
and the immunity are very useful. Who doesn't want a 4x fighting immunity?
With this, and his base speed, he becomes an extremely viable Heracross counter.
He can switch into a Close Combat, survive with his HP and defenses, and outspeed Heracross.
He can also switch into many of the other threats in the Metagame who like to throw around close combats.
Once in, using his 4x resists or immunity, he can proceed to outspeed or sleep.

The thing here is his weaknesses often aren't seen on the same sets as his resists/immunities.
This means that the pokemon Crobat will be switching in on probably won't have something
that severely damages him.

Despite his resistances, which in my opinion are decent but not amazing, he won't take neutral hits amazingly well with his average defenses. Also, being 2x weak to electric, rock, and ice with his stats really hinders his viability as a defensive Pokemon. Gliscor is neutral to rock and immune to electric so ignoring the 4x weakness to ice isn't Gliscor a better defensive flying choice in every way? I understand he doesn't have the speed that Crobat does but outside of a fast hypnosis what does Crobat need the speed for? Also, how can you say a lot of super-effective type attacks are not carried in the same move set that has resisted types. Taking fighting for example. Infernape and Lucario often carry HP Ice and Heracross and Machamp often carry Stone Edge (or sometimes Ice Punch in the case of Machamp).

A look at his support options:
Hypnosis
Taunt
Mean Look
Confuse Ray
Haze
U-Turn (Yes, I consider U-Turn support because of it's scouting ability).

There's alot here that Crobat can effectively use, especially because of his amazing base speed
and the fact that there's so much he can switch in on. Garchomp about to EQ you? Switch in, outspeed it, and put it
to sleep. Infernape throwing Close Combats around? Switch in, outspeed it, and sleep it.
Taunt can mess up stall teams very badly, Mean Look traps things that are locked into a
fighting/ground move - both of which Crobat either 4x resits or is immune to.
He has the fastest Confuse Ray in the game - everyone hates confusion. Also,
he can brag about having Haze and U-Turn. Use his fast speed to U-Turn and scout a switch in,
or Haze if your opponent has gotten one too many boosts.

Decent move pool, agreed, but it isn't particularly striking to me. A fast sleep is always great, but Choice Scarf Gengar can do this as well so this isn't exclusive to him.

Crobat's attack options: (the main ones)
Brave Bird
Pursuit
Air Slash/Aerial Ace
U-Turn
Hidden Powers

It may look small, but he is very good at doing what he is built for.
Switch in on a resist/immunity and pursuit them out. (HP fighting Azelf comes to mind).
Air Slash / Aerial Ace / Brave Bird reinforces the fact of how well he can deal with Heracross.
U-Turn lets him scout and get in a light hit.
Many people also overlook the Hidden Power. With 130 base speed and decent Sp. Atk,
He can really cause grief for some of the promiment threats as a revenge killer.
Garchomp : 4x weak to ice
Salamence: 4x weak to ice
Dragonite: 4x weak to ice
Heatran: 4x weak to ground

I'd like to see some damage calcs against them, does Hidden Power OHKO them or not? Because those 4 can put a huge dent into Crobat.

-The above all get outspeeded handily by Crobat. He can switch into EQ's from
Garchomp, Salamence, and Dragonite. For Heatran, he can switch into an Earth Power.
His Sp. Atk is a bit low, yes, but the fact that he can outspeed and hit many of the
major threats for 4x while having a ground immune is important.

Recovery options:
Roost

This thing can even recover. With his speed, he has the fastest roost in the game.
Not significant? If you think he's about to get Stone Edged/Ice Beamed, just outspeed with roost
and get rid of the weakness at the same time.

My point is that Crobat has so much potential. He plays a very solid and effective role on many teams.
A quote from the analysis As before, it seems likely that Crobat will skate that line between OU
and UU, but he certainly has tremendous potential if given a chance.

Which is true, he has potential, but in my opinion there are better options than him; both offensively and defensively. He's a good Pokemon but I don't think he is quite up to standards like Heatran or Tyranitar, in terms of offense, or Gliscor or Skarmory, in terms of defense.
Click to expand...
 
I personally LOVE Crobat. The reason he isn't used much is because people don't use him right. The Hypnosis / U-Turn / Air Slash set is shit. Here is the set I use:

Crobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 164 HP / 168 Atk / 176 Spe
*Brave Bird
*U-Turn
*Taunt
*Roost

I have many that say my crobat is annoying and can attest to its viability. Despite stealth rock, a fast roost, decent defenses and the ability to U-turn out keep him alive for a VERY long time. Plus, STABed Brave Bird hurts off 250ish attack. What's not to love about a pokemon that can switch into 3/4 of Heracross' moves, wall Celebi and Breloom completely, counter Infernape 100% (even a CB Thunderpunch won't kill him), and take a Lucario +2 Extremespeed and Brave Bird him for ~80% of his HP? Give the bat a try!

Choice Sets could work??

Crobat @ Choice Specs
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 Sp Atk
*Air Slash
*Sludge Bomb
*Hidden Power [Ground] / [Ice] / [Fighting]
*Dark Pulse

sounds good?

Choice Band, just use the analysis.

Originally Posted Fat Caelum

Despite his resistances, which in my opinion are decent but not amazing, he won't take neutral hits amazingly well with his average defenses. Also, being 2x weak to electric, rock, and ice with his stats really hinders his viability as a defensive Pokemon. Gliscor is neutral to rock and immune to electric so ignoring the 4x weakness to ice isn't Gliscor a better defensive flying choice in every way? I understand he doesn't have the speed that Crobat does but outside of a fast hypnosis what does Crobat need the speed for? Also, how can you say a lot of super-effective type attacks are not carried in the same move set that has resisted types. Taking fighting for example. Infernape and Lucario often carry HP Ice and Heracross and Machamp often carry Stone Edge (or sometimes Ice Punch in the case of Machamp).
Click to expand...

Bolded what I'm going to harp on.

Decent resistances? Hmmm fighting makes up the hardest hitters in the game, and Celebi is quickly becoming the most common support pokemon on every team.

Average Defenses - I believe Crobat has the highest defense for anything remotely close to him in the higher speed tiers. And I believe he shares the same defense tiers as Spiritomb... correct me if I'm wrong.

Weaknesses - Every goddamn pokemon has weakness, but unlike many, Crobat is tied for Aero for the fastest roost, and can eliminate those ONLY 2Xs weaknesses completely.

Gliscor - is strictly a Close Combat taker. However, due to 4Xs resist, Crobat takes them just as well (do some damn calcs), and can actually strike back. Gliscor is just a punching bag to sponge hits, and screams "hello Gyarados please set up on me."

Since when is speed ONLY useful for sleep? Hello revenge killing. A fast taunt is annoying, but a fast Brave Bird can really save your ass as well. And unlike most pokemon, Crobat doesn't need a Scarf to do it.

Fighters - Yeah, they all carry Stone-Edge, T-punch, or HP Ice, but they need Choice to OHKO Crobat, who outpseeds and OHKOs ALL of them (Even lucario with a good attack investment) with Brave Bird. Gliscor's Aerial Ace probably can't even KO Infernape...

Seriously, be more open minded and try shit out before knocking it.

End of rant, sorry Crobat is one of my favorites...
 
Crobat isn't used as much because it is just far too situational to be a staple pokemon. Hypnosis is cool, Nasty Plot is nice but restricts your other move choices, Roost is great, but overall Crobat is extremely predictable and walled by quite a few common pokemon. It can either be an annoyance, resistance machine or a slightly potent attacker- but it has difficulty being all three at the same time. This is definitely a pokemon that the EV system hurt.

It's typing is decent defensively, but offensively it is garbage. Poison is by far the worst type in the game, and Flying is resisted by quite a bit. When you back that up with its mediocre stats, you begin to see why people are turned off by it. Its Fighting and Grass immunities are nice to combat Heracross and Breloom...until you switch in on a Stone Edge. Oops!

It is good at what it does, but unfortunately what it does best isn't a very common niche that teams need to fill. I predict that it stays BL for quite a while with its mediocre stats and typing.
 
Ok i just thought of this gimmicky thing he can do that isn't in the analysis. This is not just limited to him but he does it nicely with his speed and support moves.

Crobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 Atk what ever
~Mean Look
~Taunt
~Toxic
~Roost

When crobat comes out people might think, hypnosis or brave bird/uturn and switch in a sleep talker, hopefully not a steel type. If your opponent is so unfortunate not to have a steel on his or her team you can mean look the switch in, taunt, then toxic and stall it with roost if crobat can live against what ever is out. Can trap and kill brave bird skarms without shed shell and other non steal walls with no SE move against or after crobat roosts. Defiantly surprising but nothing most standards like bronzong can't make useless.
 
Well, your rant made it quite clear you are quite a fan of Crobat RaikouLover. I don't try to knock Crobat (in fact I actually like him), I have used Crobat, and he is a good Pokemon, but I don't think he has enough going for it to bump it up to OU which was the original premise of thread. In your own words you essentially explained why he isn't likely to become OU any time soon:
RaikouLover said:
I personally LOVE Crobat. The reason he isn't used much is because people don't use him right.
Click to expand...

If you know how to use a Pokemon correctly you can make almost any Pokemon viable. My point (although poorly explained probably) was that he doesn't have as much going for it as top OU guys because he is more difficult to use that some of them. A lot of players can successfully use Garchomp, but I don't think the same can be said of Crobat. Like you said, people don't use him right because, in reality, he is more of a challenge to use than many players would bother with.
 
Jrrrr hit the nail on the head: awful STABs, not much type coverage, fragile, etc, etc.

Granted a Nasty Plotter, even WITH 70 base SAtk (if only it were 90 or even 80), with 394 speed + a sleep move can be quite dangerous in the right situations, (Hypnosis + Air Slash + Nasty Plot + Hidden Power Fighting could be pretty threatening imo) but that just doesn't make it OU.

Edit: forgot about the illegality of Hypnosis + Nasty Plot.
 
I wouldn't really call Flying an awful STAB, as only 3 types resist it and nothing is immune, which is the same case for water. And I must reiterate that the bat is not excatly fragile if you take a look at X-Act's defense tiers.

But yea Caelum, not enough people use him correctly or even give him a shot to warrant him as OU. He is certainly a good pokemon though. And agreeing with Jrrrrrrr, I usually find him hard to fit on a team even though I know how to use his potential.
 
Meh, he's well rounded with killer speed but his movepool is very limited, his typing is really quite mediocre for any kind of defense or offense and there are simply pokemon who outclass him. Staraptor does essentially the same thing as an offensive crobat only 10x better, Gengar is slightly slower but an overall better hypnosis lead, Azelf is better as a nasty plot user, Gliscor is a better fighting resistant physical wall even with the higher ice weakness, I can go on and on with this. Crobat has the curse of the jack of all trades, capable of all but master of none. D/P favors more specialized pokemon on the whole, with the exception of mixed sweepers.

You're also partially incorrect on one thing, there are quite a few physical sweepers that will carry fighting or bug moves that also have stone edge or ice/thunder punch, which is the main thing holding him back from excelling more in that area. Of course, with boltbeam weak he'd never make a decent special wall unless he had truly exceptional defensive stats. Poison is a massively underpowered type if you ask me, its only real benefit is a fighting resist which only Weezing can take full advantage of because it also has ground weak, and most physical sweepers with fighting moves carry EQ. It has little to no use on the offensive end.
 
For Hypnosis+Nastyplot use Ninetails!
On another note, I think the reason why Crobat is not used so much is because many of the things it can do are either a bit situational or done better by other pokemon. He seems to be an "if only" pokemon. "If only he had better attacking stats", "if only he had better stab moves" ect. Dont get me wrong though, I agree that he has his uses, just not enough to warrent a space on most people's teams.
 
What's the point of saying you're going to Brave Bird revenge kill something that does like 80% to you, cause your recoil is going to fuck you after you take the hit.

Are we discussing suicidal revenge killers here?

P.S. Aren't people also leaning towards running Thunder Wave on Celebi since they figure Gyarados stopped using Taunt? Cause all we need is to spam Crobat to Thunder Waves.

P.P.S. 239 attack vs 206 defense, 70 power(*4), 357 max HP: 66.67% - 78.43% (Which means it's -possible- that Yache Garchomp survives 2 Hits!!!!)
 
RaikouLover said:
I personally LOVE Crobat. The reason he isn't used much is because people don't use him right. The Hypnosis / U-Turn / Air Slash set is shit. Here is the set I use:

Crobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 164 HP / 168 Atk / 176 Spe
*Brave Bird
*U-Turn
*Taunt
*Roost

I have many that say my crobat is annoying and can attest to its viability. Despite stealth rock, a fast roost, decent defenses and the ability to U-turn out keep him alive for a VERY long time. Plus, STABed Brave Bird hurts off 250ish attack. What's not to love about a pokemon that can switch into 3/4 of Heracross' moves, wall Celebi and Breloom completely, counter Infernape 100% (even a CB Thunderpunch won't kill him), and take a Lucario +2 Extremespeed and Brave Bird him for ~80% of his HP? Give the bat a try!

Choice Sets could work??

Crobat @ Choice Specs
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 Sp Atk
*Air Slash
*Sludge Bomb
*Hidden Power [Ground] / [Ice] / [Fighting]
*Dark Pulse

sounds good?

Choice Band, just use the analysis.



Bolded what I'm going to harp on.

Decent resistances? Hmmm fighting makes up the hardest hitters in the game, and Celebi is quickly becoming the most common support pokemon on every team.

Average Defenses - I believe Crobat has the highest defense for anything remotely close to him in the higher speed tiers. And I believe he shares the same defense tiers as Spiritomb... correct me if I'm wrong.

Weaknesses - Every goddamn pokemon has weakness, but unlike many, Crobat is tied for Aero for the fastest roost, and can eliminate those ONLY 2Xs weaknesses completely.

Gliscor - is strictly a Close Combat taker. However, due to 4Xs resist, Crobat takes them just as well (do some damn calcs), and can actually strike back. Gliscor is just a punching bag to sponge hits, and screams "hello Gyarados please set up on me."

Since when is speed ONLY useful for sleep? Hello revenge killing. A fast taunt is annoying, but a fast Brave Bird can really save your ass as well. And unlike most pokemon, Crobat doesn't need a Scarf to do it.

Fighters - Yeah, they all carry Stone-Edge, T-punch, or HP Ice, but they need Choice to OHKO Crobat, who outpseeds and OHKOs ALL of them (Even lucario with a good attack investment) with Brave Bird. Gliscor's Aerial Ace probably can't even KO Infernape...

Seriously, be more open minded and try shit out before knocking it.

End of rant, sorry Crobat is one of my favorites...
Click to expand...

I have been running a similar set and EV for almost a year, except I have sub instead of u-turn (I use it as a lead). :) I know it is not the best pokemon out there but since crobat is one of my favourites, I always use it in my main wifi and shoddy team. This team once got me to the top 10. Crobat go!

Adamant crobat with max atk EV has a very good chance of ohko'ing gengar with brave bird. I assume this also goes to ohko'ing lucario since lucario has about the same defense as gengar. But you lose the opportunity to outspeed starmie and azelf :(
 
Originally Posted by Fat Aeroblacktyl

What's the point of saying you're going to Brave Bird revenge kill something that does like 80% to you, cause your recoil is going to fuck you after you take the hit.

Are we discussing suicidal revenge killers here?
Click to expand...

If it's the difference between taking something down with you and having them sweep your whole team... why not? What the hell is Explosion for then?

Originally Posted by Fat Aeroblacktyl

P.S. Aren't people also leaning towards running Thunder Wave on Celebi since they figure Gyarados stopped using Taunt? Cause all we need is to spam Crobat to Thunder Waves
Click to expand...

Taunt is pretty common on Crobat...

Originally Posted by Fat Vampdude34

Since when has 85/80/80 defences been considered "solid"?
Click to expand...

Since when has 85/80/80 defenses been considered "frail?" No unSTABed Super Effective move is going to kill him unless it's backed by Choice, which is essentially STAB. Combine that with a fast Roost, and he somehow manages to stick around for a while, regardless of stealth rock. Just for comparison sake, his defense is higher than Gyarados and Milotics. Obviously they invest in defenses and have traits to let them take hits better, but beating them out tells you he's not excatly a "lightweight" so to speak.

I mean the bat is not a piece of shit, he has a few things going for it that people should maybe try out for a change before saying "Staraptor does A better, Gengar does B better, Gliscor does C better." Give him a try, he won't let you down at all, but at the same time he has his limitations.
 
Since when can you Taunt while it's Thunder Waving on the switch.

Also isn't the whole point is to show that Crobat was sturdy? When you make a comparison to Explosion, that generally means it's not going to be staying around to do what you're raving about it can do. If your idea of a Heracross counter is to suicide yourself, I'd use Explosion Weezing instead etc etc etc etc. Get where I'm going with this? Perhaps you're making Crobat to be so much better than it actually is to where you're blinded by some facts of it and use illogical arguments.

Bottom line is Crobat has its perks, we know that. Or rather we don't, but at least now we're aware. There's no use to forcing it into our minds that it's greater than something it isn't.
 
Who switches Crobat into an obvious Thunderwave?

And my suicidal counter was for Lucario, not Heracross. Crobat isn't a 100% counter to fighters, but is a damn good switch in most of the time, and WILL scare them off. If they don't run, none of them will survive a Brave Bird to the face.

I'm not saying its the best thing in the world, I'm just combating the arguments such as "well Gengar does this better and Staraptor does this better and Gliscor does this better." Or "Crobat isn't sturdy, etc." I've actually used the thing extensively unlike some of the people here.
 
TheSpinner said:
The thing here is his weaknesses often aren't seen on the same sets as his resists/immunities.
Click to expand...

. . . I stopped reading here. I mean seriously,
Ground/Rock? The type combination ONLY resisted by a few pokemon with levitate? Not to mention everything and its mom learns Earthquake + Stone Edge.

Ice/Ground? Mamoswine's attacking type, and the type combo resisted by no OU pokemon other than bronzong?

Ice/Fight? Erm, yeah.

Psychic/Fight? You mean how every psychic pokemon and its mom considers running focus blast/hidden power fight? Not to mention Gallade and Medicham. >.>

But even outside these common combos, there are some vary noteable pokemon who can and sometimes do run Thunderbolt/thunderpunch/stone edge + miscellaneous fighting move (TTar, Gengar, Salamence, infernape, electivire, etc.)



While I think Crobat is good, I think you're missing the point that while not OU, and not really on par with a lot of OUs, Crobat is seeing a lot more use than in past generations for the exact reasons you're bringing up. While its role as Speedy utility has made it valuable in DP (and really it's gotten a lot better at it this gen), it was unpopular for being mediocre in past gens, and its fair mediocrity still is there. It's just very good at the few weird niches it fills.
 
Crobat might gain some more popularity if platinum introduces a way to get both hypnosis and brave bird on the same crobat. Even better if crobat can absorb toxic spikes when it roosts :)
 
Yeah, Crobat is hampered by it's offensive movepool, but I still believe he deserves a spot among the bottom of OU and more usage. Some of you argue that he has mediocre stats. I really believe that 130 base speed makes his stats not very mediocre at all. The ability to outspeed something and put it to sleep or taunt it (or both, in the case of a sleeptalker) is pretty significant. He requires prediction to not switch in on a stone edge or the like, but he has some very useful support options. I really believe that Crobat should not run a Nasty Plot set. With his lack of options, it really isn't viable. He gets walled by too much, too easily. What is he good for, then? I believe what he really shines at is his ability to switch in on EQ's/fighting attacks and sleep or hit SE. Then he can U-Turn to scout, or use the turn their switching out their asleep pokemon to Roost. Basically, he is best at supporting the team, scouting for you, and sleeping dangerous counters.

I do not believe that he should be a top tier OU by any means, but I think he certainly has the potential to be - and should be - in OU.
 
Ok, first-- how in hell is Crobat's move-pool bad?

-Hypnosis
-Taunt
-U-Turn
-Whirlwind
-Haze
-Snatch
-Roost
-Confuse Ray
-Swagger
-Mean Look
-Quick Attack
-Pursuit
-Substitute
-Protect
-Toxic
-Nasty Plot

I mean, how much more could you want from a Utility/Support Pokemon? If Crobat could baton pass, it would be OU.


2nd, Crobat's stats are mediocre. I mean if people say 100 all over is mediocre, where does that leave crobat?

There are very few speedy support users, and there's a reason-- The advantage of speed is being able to accomplish a lot with the extra turn(s) gained from going first. In other words, if you can't interrupt the opponent's turn during yours, there's no point in going first.

The most reliable way of doing this is of course, killing the enemy pokemon before it kills you. Hence the speedy sweeper. Crobat can somewhat achieve this with hypnosis, but for the most part a speedy hypnosis just isn't as reliable (especially with sleep clause) as a ScarfChomp's Outrage.

Crobat's offenses are not enough to take advantage of its speed as a sweeper, so a lot of the merit of being fast is lost despite the usefulness of moves like Taunt and U-turn. While its defenses aren't crap, they're not enough to keep it going forever.

In short, Mediocre, even the speed because being offensively weak makes being fast mediocre. I mean, look at Deoxys S-- a 600 BST wandering in and out of BL and lower OU? WTF? The only 600 BST that ought to be doing that is Shaymin and that's only because of Celebi.

edit:

Deoxys S is actually a great example of deminishing returns to speed-- at some point, more speed just doesn't help much more. Why do you think things start to faze out in usage after starmie? More Speed isn't helping Alakazam's case much against azelf as the speedy psychic sweeper, nor Sceptile's case against infernape for the mixed sweeper. Jolteon and weavile are dropping because people are realizing they just don't hit hard enough, and in weavile's case Scarf Gar has kind of ruined its purpose, in part because Scarfvile just has no real utility outside of beating gengar . . .

so yeah, in short speed without power IS mediocre.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top