Gen 6 Community Analyis/Building: Pokemon #3 (Landorus-Therian)

[Aberforth]

approved by Sweep

art is a placeholder until PoMMan figures out how this Paint.net software works.
So I had a thought the other day: How to not make Palkia shit. And then I saw a similar thread by Dice, how to not make Kyurem-White shit and it looks like a good idea.

So each week or fortnight depending on activity I will be posting a nomination for people to talk about, the various strengths it has in the metagame and how they would try to go about building around that pokemon to try and maximise its strong points. After I post the set each week, I will talk about how I'd go about it. Note: this is not a competition. The teambuilding competition is entirely seperate from this thread, the going-ons there dont effect this thread at all and in fact I will actively avoid having a pokemon to build around at the same time as the teambuilding competition.

The purpose of this thread is to try and create good discourse on the forums, cause frankly the forum is quite dead at the moment, and it can also act as a way for newer players to get better, as they can see what the high level players think about when building in a more in depth manner.

In case it wasn't clear already, the first pokemon this week is the one that suffered most in the shift to ORAS aside from regular Kyogre. Palkia.

Everyone knows why Palkia is so much worse nowadays, Fairies and Groudon are immune to each respective STAB move, and neither fairies nor Primaldonna are particularly rare. But it does still have capabilities as a balance breaker which can also offer a backup check to Kyogre if it gets in on Groudon. The lowering of the Lati's speed tier does give it a small amount more viability, as it turns them from checks into paste on the ground, and the recent increase in +SPA natured Diancie (krau's rmt mostly, but something I've observed in test games and some tour games too) means it can outspeed a bunch of the bulkier meta and 2hko it, although the less said about its matchup vs offense, the better. So would you go about overcoming its weaknesses? Having solid xern and pdon checks if you mispredict? Using things that do really well vs offensive teams? If so, what in particular?

Archive:

palkia

ogasian's post
Eeyore's post
Daenys's post
haxiom's post

 

[Aberforth]

Double Post to avoid clogging up the OP, will keep it to 1 post in the future. Bare in mind that I am by no means a great builder and there are undoubtedly better Palkia builds around than mine.

I started off with Palkia, obviously, and decided to go with 3 attacks + twave, the three attacks being Spacial Rend, Hydro Pump and Fire Blast. With these three attacks, Palkia 2HKOs or OHKOs most mons found on more balanced inclined teams, and stuff like Arceus-Water cant take 2 spacial rends after a tiny amount of chip damage (switching into rocks, ext). Thunder is another option to just destroy Arceus-Water entirely, but I wanted thunder wave so that if needs be and I mispredicted when my xern checks were weakened, I could suicide myself to twave it and let the rest of the team deal with it. The next obvious choice was Groudon, and so I put it on the team and just got lazy so I slapped the standard Rocks + twave set on.

After that, I wanted a solid Darkrai check, so I clicked Ho-oh when I decided I'd been a bit too gimmicky with my darkrai answers in the past, and made it CB just so that it can break stuff a little bit better than Life Orb. Also the lack of recoil damage taken can be a wonder when facing off against an aroma xern that got past pdon or made the sacrifice of palkia useless. To make up for the relative lack of gimmicky-ness, I put Air Baloon excadrill on the team. Now while the team originally went off the rails of the gimmick train and had stuff like Thundurus-I and mold breaker exca (both under-rated and under-explored btw) I realised that it would make more sense to replace thundurus with ttar and give exca sand rush instead, to help out vs offensive teams. I kept it air balloon and a rather weird SD rapid spin set just because Ho-oh really needs spin support but I didn't want to forgoe SD for Rock Slide, and I do have a couple soft answers to Ho-oh. Ttar is needed only really to check mence, so I made it twave ice beam to avoid being set up on by that one max defense salamence I've seen running around on the ladder. At that point I still had two moveslots and no solid ho-oh or mewtwo check, so I went with pursuit and rock slide for the last two slots. With this team, I have more counterplay to mewtwo and gengar and stuff than I do salamence and ho-oh, so I went shuca berry with my TTar. There's almost certainly a better ev spread, but I wasn't motivated enough to find it and just went with max hp max defense. I can try and bluff the chople vs special attackers anyway.

Now with my last slot I decided to run refresh dd Salamence. With the support excadrill and ho-oh offer, I find myself clicking eq rather infrequently on this team, so I just decided to run the set that can also act as a semi-ok ho-oh pivot if I really need my ttar for later and dont want to try and predict the sacred fire. Lack of double edge is personal preference, still deciding what I prefer on this build.

If you want my attempt, here it is:

importable

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin

Tyranitar @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Pursuit
- Rock Slide

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Frustration
- Refresh

Now lets hear your thoughts.

NOTE: DO NOT JUST NITPICK THIS TEAM (as people on PS already have), the focus on the thread should be how you would go about getting palkia to work, not why Chople is better than shuca or other unimportant details.

 

[ogasian]

Hide

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Roost

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Diamond Storm

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 76 SpA / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Thunder Wave
- Solar Beam
- Stone Edge

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover
- Defog

Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Aromatherapy
- Sleep Talk

Honestly, I had no idea how to start building an ORAS team centered around Palkia. It offered little utility and had too many weaknesses. Compound this with my inexperience in the ORAS metagame, and you get this jumble of a team (honestly I just wanted to keep this thread alive). Anyway, something that I had success with in BW was Trick Room Palkia, so I lifted that set into the present. Trick Room gives Palkia a measure of speed control (and ensures it doesn't get screwed over by random Twaves, which seems to be the fad nowadays), which allows it to break through faster Pokemon such as Mega-Gengar. Running Trick Room also allowed me to put the Speed EV's into bulk, which helps it better check Primal-Kyogre, something this team as a whole is rather weak to. However, TRKia didn't fix all of my problems. Palkia still has trouble with some bulkier Pokemon, like Lugia or Support Arceus. As such, I opted for a Life Orb Ho-Oh with Toxic, which allowed me to cripple or pressure common switch-ins, such as the aforementioned Lugia and Support Arceus. Next, I threw in a Mega-Diancie, which further pressures Support Arceus. Diancie also gave me a good Lugia switch-in and a Darkrai check. At this point, I was running out of ideas, so I threw in a mon that all ORAS teams have- Primal Groudon. I opted for a strange Twave + 3 attacks set. Thunder Wave helps Pdon check Xerneas while also crippling common switch-ins. Solar Beam, with the given Special Attack investment, 2hkoe's Arceus-Water, the most common Palkia check. Arceus-Water was thrown on as a generally tanky sponge, a Mence check, and a Ho-Oh switch in. Lastly, I slapped on a Scarf Xerneas to patch up my Darkrai / Mence weakness and maybe catch some Blisseys off gaurd.

 

[Eeyore]

team

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Thunder Wave

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave

Arceus-Poison @ Toxic Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 132 HP / 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Rash Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return
- Refresh

I'm going to be completely honest, I took far to long with this team for what was yielded. First, I tried out Palkia with Toxic, to more directly take on Groudon, and stall out with an Arceus-Water, but I found a lot of weaknesses to mons such as Refresh MegaMence, who would set up on either and just decimate teams. I also tried Blizzard, Thunder and Aura Sphere, just to see if I could find a niche that worked. Nope. T-wave Palkia is really the best Palkia.

So I paired Palkia with Groudon Primal, because Palkia checks Groudon's checks. Kyogre? Checked. Arceus-Ground? Check. Skarmory? Check. Even Yveltal takes serious damage from Lustrous and does not want to be paralyzed. Xerneas was still a problem though, as always, and so I put T-wave on both Groudon and Palkia, just in case. I then added Arceus-Poison, as it is one of the only mons in Ubers to take a +2 hit from Xerneas provided it doesn't pack Hidden Power Ground, as well as sponging Toxic Spikes and cold stopping Amoonguss. I opted for a bulkier set of 164 SpDef and lower speed, as it allows Arceus-Poison to make a guaranteed 2HKO from set-up Thunder dwindle down to 12.5% chance to, allowing for a CM boost, Recover, and a much more reliable killing option against Xerneas. Arceus-Poison also seems to synergize well with Palkia because it has the strange habit of making the opponent send in Ho-oh or Kyogre, both of which Palkia is a reliable switch to.
I also added Ferrothorn, as entry hazards would benefit any member. I also wanted something that could take 1 hit from Groudon or from Xerneas. Ferro does that and can Gyro Ball for serious damage onto Xerneas, or Leech Seed for stalled damage on either. I highly considered putting T-wave on Ferrothorn and taking it off of Groudon, but seed-stall seemed too reliable to pass up. Perhaps in a later draft.
Yveltal was added for its incredible use of priority, in the strongest of such in Dark Aura boosted Sucker Punch. As one of the premier checks to Groudon, and with weaknesses that are pretty easily covered by a Groudon of my own, Yveltal seems like a logical choice.

The last slot was the hardest. In all honesty, I just slapped on what I thought would be a strong clean-up crew, in Mence Mega. I have no idea if this was a good choice or not, though it seems to be okay if it comes in late. The only problem I seem to have with him on the team is that opposing Aegislash just won't show until he has. Never mind the three other mons I have out, I have to lure Aegi out, and can never get a hit on him, meaning I take a lot of unnecessary damage to try and get rid of a strong problem.

The only problem with this team, ironically, is how weak it is to opposing Palkia

Here are a couple replays of my using the team, I'll only post ones that use Palkia

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-313713579 -- guy claimed hax at the end, but besides one crit, the 'hax' was that I didn't get paralyzed more than once. He didn't miss, I didn't miss, I just played better.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-313720437
Palkia puts in serious work, takes down Mega Mewtwo Y
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-314936640
Palkia did a little, but this was mostly to show that the team is well constructed enough to overcome flinch hax

 

[Daenys]

I was unsure how a gimmick team would be received so I decided to make a conventional one . Please Ignore EVs .

Hide

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 48 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Thunder Wave
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Toxic
- Fire Blast

Tyranitar @ Roseli Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Sleep Talk
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Force
- Brick Break
- Extreme Speed

I went back to common archetypes which used Palkia in earlier gens and the prominent ones were/are Ho-Oh +Groudon+Palkia and Ttar+Exca+Ho-Oh so I basically merged the two together and threw in Ekiller . Then I realized I did not have a mega and swapped Ho-Oh for Mega Salamence .
Gunner Rohan suggested Roar>Twave on Ttar but with the addition of ghostceus I feel Twave would help vs Darkrai better . Rock Tomb can be used if Mence gives you trouble (more utility than ice beam in general). If you decide to keep Ekiller you can keep Roar on Ttar although now you'd be a bit weak to opposing Ekiller and random Lucario.
Hack suggested Ghostceus>Ekiller which was pretty much perfect and that's pretty much it for the team.

I dislike Extreme Speed Ghostceus but I felt it helped check Deo-A to an extent and priority is always good to have so I went with it.

Alternatively, you can add Thunder Wave on Palkia which would give you 3 thunder wave users! (don't do it)

 

[haxiom]

So, the hardest part about building with Palkia is trying to make it justifiable over other Pokemon. Most notably, Palkia receives a lot of competition from Latios. In regards to how Palkia differs, there are a few differences. I tried two different things with Palkia.

Importable

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 1 Spe
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Trick Room

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Atk / 48 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Precipice Blades
- Toxic
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Protect

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Trick Room

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 Atk / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Force

Here's a Trick Room team I built with Palkia. Palkia has access to Trick Room, which sets it apart from Latios and carves it a "legitimate" niche on such a team. Mega Diancie and Bronzong serve as the other setters of Trick Room; additionally, Mega Diancie serves as an antilead option and checks Flying- and Dark-type threats, while Bronzong loosely checks some Primal Groudon, Mega Salamence, Latios, etc. I added Swords Dance Primal Groudon, and since I already had Bronzong I put Toxic on it because I couldn't think of anything else. I added Extreme Killer Arceus since it made the most sense to me, with priority ignoring Trick Room, allowing it to retain its function as a sweeper while still being threatening and having regular revenge killing capabilities. Giratina-O filled up some holes defensively, with Defog if necessary, though it's not really that useful and can be replaced.

Importable

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Roost

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 176 SpD / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Roar

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Play Rough

Arceus-Rock @ Stone Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magic Coat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Judgment

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Protect

Well this is a bit of an interesting team. Rather than trying to justify the use of Palkia over Latios, I decided to use both of them in a sort of Dragon spam type offensive core. Mega Gengar is nice because it can kill Fairies. The rest of team tries to cover most of the other holes and deal with other threats. Standard HO can be a bit of an issue in some cases since the sweepers on it put a lot of pressure on this team.

I'd say overall Palkia is a bit mediocre but I think these teams highlight some potential ways it can be used on a team. They're not really 'final-draft' teams but there's some interesting concepts I guess.

 

[Aberforth]

Thanks to everyone who responded! Next up is a pokemon getting a fair amount of discussion in the viability rankings thread at the moment, Ekiller!

OK fine I'll chose a less easy one. How about one I personally like a lot, Mega Kangaskhan.

Mega Kangaskhan is an interesting mon, with a great matchup vs offensively inclined teams but a much worse one vs stall and some balance builds. Despite this it can get around this weakness by running some coverage moves (low kick, ice punch, crunch) to make it better vs these teams, normally at the cost of making it worse vs the offensive teams it does well against.

I am generally really poor in my matchups vs offensively inclined teams for reasons that will always escape me so i would start off building around kanga looking to get the most out of it by using double priority in fake out sucker as well as either ice punch or low kick, depending on whether I need to deny mence any setup opportunities or if I want to check ekillers.

So after this I look to my stall matchup and try to improve it in some ways. Options are stuff like using bronzong to free pdon up to use paradancer sets, ho-ohs that can break well, blockxern, ext. At the same time though this could make me weaker vs offensive stuff that I cant just rely on kanga for, which does influence my decisions in what I'm using. Bronzong is an example of this very thing, as it helps me check things like geoxern and mence, and I can use sub ho-oh to help me vs most arc-ghost variants. And this is about the time when I think I've written enough and can post a full team later.

 

[Aberforth]

Ping for those unaware, I changed the mon this week to Mega Kangaskhan cause of the teambuilding thread using Blaziken at the same time.

 

[Jhonx~]

Importable

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Grass Knot
- Defog
- Roost

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Play Rough
- Spikes
- Toxic

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Roar
- Lava Plume

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Whirlwind
- Toxic
- Counter
- Roost

Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Sucker Punch

Explanation:

This team is simple, the set are the randoms, well, I put Latios here because is my Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre check, hitting hard both with Grass Knot and can clean the field with Defog, very important in the actually metagame, Klefki is my check to Darkrai, Xerneas and can Stall mons like Arceus Water, Giratina, most of the stall, can set spikes because they are useful in moments vs HO teams, Primal Groudon my xerneas check and my steel killer, with Lava Plume and Precipice Blades, Stealth Rocks are obligatory and do a nice work with Spikes, Roar checks Xerneas and Some mons boosted, Kyogre Primal have substitute, that helps me to boost with calm mind vs Stalls, and do a lot of damage, running speed to outspeed some Ho Oh and other stuff, u can change the speed, Skarmory is my ekiller check, salamence check and physically mons check, because have counter, roost, toxic and whirlwind, Rocky Helmet helps a lot in switchs in, example Latios hits 90% to LO arceus and u change after that a Espeed predict and Arceus dies to Rocky Helmet, Kangaskhan have fire punch to lure Skarmory and Ferrothorn, stuff that wall Kangaskhan with Ice Punch, Kangaskhan is very useful on the team.
Enjoy it, this team is the team i used on round one on Seasonal and won.

Take care with CB Ho-Oh, that wrecks the team, ty Krauersaut.

 

[haxiom]

For me the best teams for Mega Kangaskhan are Toxic Spikes teams, where Fake Out is very effective since it also adds on damage from Poison. Here's the Toxic Spikes team I built:

Importable

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake

Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Toxic Spikes
- Endeavor
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 120 HP / 236 Atk / 64 SpD / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Tail

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Force
- Brick Break
- Extreme Speed

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Sleep Talk

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 200 Def / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Block
- Rest

I started with Mega Kangaskhan obviously. I chose Scolipede because it has a nice matchup against Deoxys-S and Darkrai, which is useful for a team that cannot fit Mega Diancie. I also didn't really want Scarf Xerneas for my Darkrai check because it gives free turns to Ho-Oh, so I chose Choice Scarf Landorus-T with Sleep Talk instead of Explosion. Naturally, Primal Groudon is a great Stealth Rock user; I opted to use Stone Edge and Dragon Tail with the former hitting Ho-Oh and the latter allowing me to phaze most setup sweepers, while a combination of Mega Kangaskhan + Toxic Spikes + Primal Groudon + Extreme Speed should deal with Xerneas well enough. Ghost Arceus checks opposing Extreme Killer Arceus and blocks Rapid Spin, while being a very threatening Swords Dance user. Finally, I chose Geomancy Xerneas as the last Pokemon, with Block and Rest to help the team's matchup against stall which would otherwise be difficult, and 200 Defense allowing it to be a decent one-time check to Mega Salamence. Overall a pretty solid team that utilizes Mega Kangaskhan's Fake Out nicely with Toxic Spikes.

 

[ogasian]

Revived y/n. This team should be much better, as I'm (kinda) more familiar with ORAS now.

Importable

Rayquaza @ Choice Band
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Aqua Tail
- V-create
- Extreme Speed

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Toxic

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Recover
- Toxic
- Defog

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 Atk / 176 SpD / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Tail

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Block
- Toxic
- Play Rough

Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Crunch
- Frustration
- Earthquake

This team was built around the rather simple concept of Mega-Kangaskhan + Jolly CB Rayquaza. As many teams rely on bulky Arceus (without significant speed creep) to check both of these mons, I figured that doubling could allow me to easily overload support Arceus. Besides, since many people dont EV their Arceus to outspeed positive speed nature bas 95's, Jolly CB Rayquaza could easily 2HKO every common support Arceus forme, leaving Kangaskhan a huge hole to exploit. With my core in place, I immediately added a Primal-Groudon...because it's a Primal Groudon. I don't think that choice really needs justification lol. I added Klefki as a secondary Xern check and blanket check to sweepers. I threw in an Arceus-Water to check Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, and Rayquaza and to provide defog support. By now, I noticed I was kinda weak to ekiller, so I threw on a Skarmory. I think this team actually has a good matchup against pretty much any playstyle- Skarm+Kanga pretty much destroy HO by themselves, Jolly CB Ray puts an insane amount of pressure on balance and stall, and Primal-Groudon is effective in pretty much any situation. For what it's worth, I went something like 34-2 on the ladder with this team (although today i got haxed 3 times in a row,,,,,, :salt:).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-328443663
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-327836919
^just two replays

 

[squinn]

Just want to note something as both jhonx and ogasian use klefki+kanga.I really like to use dazz gleam klefki in combination with mkanga to lure out msab and make kangas life much easier. also enables your skarm to be more effective btw^^ the extra dmg you'd gain from play rough on xern isn't too necessary as you're running double priority and heavy para'd xern hitters anyway. Sub would obviously be a prob but nobody runs that lel.. hax can happen too

Edit: kanga should be jolly imo(outspeed modest latios, +speed rays etc.)

 

[Freeroamer]

Gleam Klefki would've been good in the past but now Sableye are running some SpDef it's kinda pointless :(

 

[Cheryl.]

So is this thread still active? I think it would be cool to build around some more underrated mons like Arceus-Ice or Landorus-T

 

[Aberforth]

Not really active, but if there's public interest I'll continue with it.

And yeah lets go Lando-T for this round.

 

[zf]

importable

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Sleep Talk

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Skill Swap
- Protect

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power
- Protect

Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Rash Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Lando-T provides a nice pivot, Darkrai check, and general revenge killer all in teamslot. Like most scarfers, it matches up better against offense and offensive balance than stall and bulkier balances. To fix these issues, I started with the combination of Jolly SD PDon and Protect Bronzong. They have nice synergy, with Zong covering Lati@s, GeoXern, and Groundceus, all problems for Jolly PDon, and PDon absolutely destroying stall and other bulky teams, which Bronzong can struggle against. Protect on Bronzong is great for scouting choiced mons and gaining extra Lefties recovery. Skill Swap provides general utility, allowing Bronzong to escape trappers and steal other key abilities, like Ho-Oh's Regerator or MMence's Aerilate. Next, I added Waterceus to check Mence, Ho-Oh, and fire coverage PDon. After this addition, the team was a bit weak to hazard stack from Keys, needed a Deo-S anti-lead, and wouldn't mind a fairy to pressure Tina-O, so I added Diancie. With 5 mons chosen, the team was solid defensively, with a relatively open last slot. I wanted something that could abuse Lando-T's U-Turn momentum vs an immunity or bulky mon, as well as a supplementary Darkrai check, since I'm not comfortable relying on a shaky scarfmon alone. LO Deo-A fit all the criteria perfectly. Overall, a neat balance that uses some underrated sets and mons.

 

[Cynara]

importable

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Sleep Talk

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power / Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 120 HP / 248 Atk / 64 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Wave

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 244 Atk / 252 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Force
- Shadow Sneak

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Play Rough
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Spikes

I actually scraped explosion later on in the build because I had no sleep absorber, so I actually went with sleep talk Lando in the end. Lando soft checks rai, creates a pivot to help keep up momentum, Gets mons in safely etc, provides a good matchup vs offense, Arceus-water is the supportceus of the team to handle fire move groudon as I found little room to fit Kyogre Arceus-dragon and a kyogre soft check is welcomed so groudon doesnt get overwhelmed. I run fast supportceus enough to creep rayquaza/standard bulky mega mence and tieing with standard 176 speed adamant mence

I went with a Paradancer Groudon as a breaker for stall matchup as lando doesnt handle this very well and the lack of a ho-oh needs to be supported (one of the biggest issues with these kinds of teams) I prefer Paradancer over Jolly SD rocks don and I feel Paradancer is much more beneficial due to thunder-wave support being able to cripple common Groudon switchins and provides a better matchup vs balance teams, EVs are a somewhat standard enough to creep 0 Speed yveltal/xern.

I choose Stealth rock Diancie which is a decently consistent stealth rock user and I needed an Anti-Lead to Deoxys/Darkrai HO aswell as getting rocks up, while freeing up the groudon set.

Klefki provides hazard stack which goes nicely with scarf lando especially, Diancie alone is not enough for darkrai, especially vs a well played darkrai, Klefki is also essential to help with Xern as Groudon is not honestly enough, Klefki is a great blank check to the aforementioned mons aswell as mega mence.

Giratina-O is my obvious defog support, physical defog support giratina is chosen, I could really do with a phazer/defog User on this team, klefki and giratina-o synergize perfectly. Shadow Force over Earthquake so I dont autolose to SD shadow force Ghostceus and I have enough ground coverage thanks to lando, while dragon tail is to help control E killer who otherwise overwhelms this team.

 

[BIG G CHOPPA]

importable

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Sleep Talk

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Atk / 64 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Wave

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Facade
- Double-Edge

Dialga @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Toxic

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 200 Def / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Hidden Power [Rock]

Hey guys I'm here with a pretty standard build, nothing too big and I've been noticing that this thread doesn't get the activity it deserves D:

This build is more offensive and I opted for sleep talk on landorus therian as it can function as a sleep absorber and check darkrai. Not the best check but soft checks which is decent since it can inflict some pressure on darkrai. Landorus therian is a pretty cool momentum generator and can bring some mons in safely putting the current matchup in my favor, so thats nice. Since usually builds can take advantage of what landorus therian is choice locked into, for example they can bring in latios on an expected eq and can dent a member significantly or heavily. But I can predict that and click u-turn. Primal Groudon is absolutely mandatory as this is the primary xerneas switchin and with the added benefit of checking primal kyogre too. Provides excellent role compression in general making it very ideal on any build. Went with the paradancer set as that seemed cool. Provides some general speed control for the team, catching some common switchins like lati twins, arc water, mega salamence and lugia. Making them relatively easier to handle. Also being able to cripple xern is very nice as persay in the unfortunate case I miss p blades i dont totally get tossed by it, as it is more vulnerable to revenge killing. SD allows it to function as an early / mid game wallbreaker, being able to hit very hard after an SD boost. Precipice blades OHKO's and or heavily dents mons who are neutral to it. Rock slide hits flying types along with levitate users, preferred over stone edge as it misses less but is significantly weaker. Although it pairs well with thunder wave since it can perform some paraflinch. Mega salamence was added because since it is an offensive build, mega salamence would work great on it. Having the bulk to be able to stay healthy and check EK while performing a dual intimidate core with lando t to keep physical attackers in check is nice. While it can easily wallbreak and potentially win the game. Checks primal groudon pretty well which is needed for any build honestly otherwise, it can just autowin really. Facade mega salamence was a cool thing i opted for as getting statused in general sucks for it but like facade takes advantage of that and hits hard. Obviously I needed a rocker so shuca bulky dialga seemed to fit well. A mega mence check and can dent / toxic EK making it easier to handle as it is put on a timer then if toxic'd. Toxic catches typical dialga switchins like lugia and ho-oh while it can put bulky arceus support forms on a timer too. Stealth rock is definitely needed as especially I don't have hazard control myself, meaning i can pressure them into defogging which can help my team stay relatively healthy. Opted for fire blast on dialga as ferrothorn can be really annoying for the team in general, xern cannot really scare it. Neither e killer, and leech seed shenanigans annoy p don, mega mence and lando t. Now finally I decided to wrap the team up with EK and geo xern. Noticing how I don't really have a consistent yveltal switchin stone edge arceus appealed to me. So far the team has been pretty aggressive towards yveltal, being able to dent it severely or cripple it. Offensive variants are troublesome while the defensive ones can be easily handled by xerneas. EK functions as a powerful and scary wincon. Priority is useful for this team as arceus can pick off threats when they are within range of getting killed. Geoxern betters matchup against mega sableye and yveltal, provides an excellent wincon and provide status removal support for the team. This is useful as its typical switchins are handled by the rest of the team. Also I want to mention that RP + dragon claw p don can be an option here to give the team a way to pressure latis. Thanks to Arii Stella for suggestion! Hope you enjoy c:

 

[Aberforth]

I'm curious on why you decided on Ekiller and Xern camilas, if you dont mind expanding on that. The way I see it, the team already functions pretty well without them offensively and they look to be just there as placeholders. I was thinking that something like SD arceus-ghost would fit better than ekiller because of the better matchup it'd give your offense against opposing Ekillers, and then your last mon could be Xerneas or Klekfi with the aim of beating yveltal and darkrai more, while offering additional speed control for groudon. I find SD ghostceus works really well as a partner to lando-t myself.

E: Going to post an experimental build later after testing, just wanted to say that first.