BSS Choice Specs Flutter Mane

LOrd Fernado

LOrd Fernado

:sv/flutter-mane::choice-specs:
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Moonblast
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Power Gem
move 4: Mystical Fire / Perish Song / Psyshock
item: Choice Specs
ability: Protosynthesis
nature: Timid
tera type: Fairy / Stellar
evs: 4 HP / 108 Def / 140 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Thanks to its high Special Attack and Speed, Flutter Mane is a devastating wallbreaker, outspeeding and blowing holes in bulky metagame threats like Dragonite and Ting-Lu!

* **Power Gem**: Power Gem is recommended to hit Chi-Yu and Ogerpon-H for super effective damage.

* **Mystical Fire versus Psyshock**: Mystical Fire allows Flutter Mane to hit Scizor for huge damage while also nerfing the power of special attackers like Iron Bundle, although Psyshock can be used against Poison-types like Glimmora and Sneasler.

* **Perish Song**: Perish Song is another alternative that can be used as an anti-setup option to counter team archetypes like Baton Pass.

Other Options
========

* **Tera Blast**: Tera Blast in conjunction with Tera Stellar can be used to make Flutter Mane a check to surprise Terastallizations from Urshifu-R or Dragonite.

* **Thunderbolt**: Thunderbolt can be used to more reliably threaten Dondozo and Suicune, especially with Tera Stellar or Tera Electric.

* **Energy Ball**: Energy Ball is a very niche option that can be used to OHKO Hippowdon and Swampert.

Tera Types
========

* **Tera Dependency - Low**: Flutter Mane already has a stunning type combination, which doesn't need much of a boost. However, the Tera type can be used to boost Flutter Mane's offensive capabilities even further.

* **Tera Fairy**: Tera Fairy gives Flutter Mane a boost on Moonblast and helps it against Chien-Pao and Urshifu-S Sucker Punch.

* **Tera Stellar**: Tera Stellar gives Flutter Mane a one-time nuke to secure knockouts and works especially well with Tera Blast.

* **Tera Electric**: Tera Electric in conjunction with Thunderbolt can OHKO Dondozo and Primarina, as well as providing Flutter Mane with a paralysis immunity.

* **Tera Water**: Tera Water is a defensive option that patches up Flutter Mane's Steel-type weakness against foes like Archaludon and Scizor, as well as resisting Urshifu-R's Surging Strikes.

EV Spreads
========

* **4 HP / 108 Def / 140 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with Timid**: This EV spread allows Flutter Mane to survive Chien-Pao's Sucker Punch before Terastallization while also maximizing Flutter Mane's Speed stat.

* **4 HP / 52 Def / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 212 Spe with Modest**: This EV spread doesn't outspeed Roaring Moon, but in exchange Flutter Mane OHKOes maximum HP Ogerpon-H with Tera Stellar Power Gem. The defensive investment survives an Aqua Jet from a +2 Adamant Urshifu-R.

* **116 HP / 204 Def / 116 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe with Modest**: This EV spread only outspeeds up to the Jolly Urshifu formes but maximizes Flutter Mane's ability to take hits, such as surviving a Tera Dark Sucker Punch from an Adamant Urshifu-S after Stealth Rock damage, surviving Adamant Chien-Pao's Icicle Crash, and having a 93% chance to survive Surging Strikes from Adamant Urshifu-R.

116 HP / 204 Def / 52 SpA / 4 Def / 132 Spe with Timid: This EV spread only outspeeds up to Jolly Roaring Moon, and survives a Tera Dark Sucker Punch from an Adamant Urshifu-S after Stealth Rock damage, survives Icicle Crash from Adamant Chien-Pao, and has a 93% chance to survive Surging Strikes from Adamant Urshifu-R. This does come at a pretty serious cost of only having a 50% chance to OHKO Urshifu formes with a neutral Tera with Moonblast, forcing Flutter Mane to Tera a lot more.

* **252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with Timid**: This is an alternate spread that can be used to maximize Flutter Mane's damage output.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/lord-fernado.629794/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/photon.516307/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/theorymon.29010/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user5.104/
 
Last edited:
QC Check. Going to run down the list of things that should be implemented before this gets the stamp of approval.

I'm going to make some suggestions that don't necessarily line up with general usage statistics, but that's because high ladder trends are sometimes markedly different from low to mid ladder trends. Nearly everything I'm suggesting is corroborated by top 100 reports, mainly ones from this past season. If you want to check them out yourself, pokedb and rotoportal are both good resources (though they can take some time to get used to navigating.)

General Changes:
  • Move Bullets : Switch Power Gem and Mystical Fire in the slashes, as Moonblast + Shadow Ball + Power Gem are the three go-to attacks at high ladder. If you still want to slash Mystical Fire behind Power Gem on the third move, I think that's fine given its general usage.
    • This switch also means you should reorganize the bullet information, since "Power Gem versus Psyshock" won't make sense in the new context.
  • Summary : "OHKOing the majority of the metagame" is a bit too exaggerated of a statement. My suggestion would be to spin this back around to the breaking power and mention specific tanks that Flutter Mane does well against.
  • Mystical Fire : Serperior is predominantly Contrary, so Mystical Fire is not something that should be suggested against it since it will boost its power instead of drop it.
  • Psyshock : Ogerpon-W takes more damage from Moonblast even after Terastallization, so Psyshock should not be suggested as optimal against it.
  • Tera Dependency : Flutter Mane almost never Terastallizes into a Ghost-type, so saying it "makes a choice between STABs" doesn't make sense given its Tera usage. My suggestion would be to still focus on the "boosting" aspect but refer to it in the context of helping specific matchups (this will be addressed with some of the additions I will outline below.) Ultimately though, you could take the description a different direction and still be fine, so I'll leave it up to you.
Additions:
  • Perish Song : Moonblast + Shadow Ball + Power Gem is solid enough coverage that Perish Song is frequently used against dedicated setup teams. This should be slashed in on the fourth move either as the first or second option.
  • Tera Blast : This should at least be an "Other Option" to go along with Tera Stellar (see below.)
  • Thunderbolt (Other Options) : I would definitely make this one an "Other Option." While not as common, Thunderbolt with Tera Electric or Tera Stellar will always OHKO maximum HP/Def Dondozo.
  • Tera Stellar : This should be listed as the second Tera option and in the summary. Besides the general boosting power talked about earlier, the boost to Power Gem is particularly good against Ogerpon-H.
  • Tera Electric : Not used as much at high ladder but worth mentioning for the paralysis immunity and Steel-type resistance (ie Scizor Bullet Punch.) I'd add this one as a bullet but not necessarily to the summary.
Let me know if you have any questions.
 
I honestly only have three things to add to Photon's check: three more alternate EV spreads to bring up and an extra Tera type! In general I think you should mention that these are only examples though, because Flutter Mane is VERY customizable in terms of EVs, which is why they're all over the place on team reports lol.

4 HP / 52 Def / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 212 Spe with Modest: This doesn't outspeed Roaring Moon (goes up to Timid Serperior), but in exchange you now OHKO Max HP Ogerpon-H with Tera Stellar Power Gem. From what I've seen, this seems to be the big offensive benchmark to hit with Modest! The defensive investment survives +2 Adamant Urshifu-R Aqua Jet (but not after it Teras lol)

116 HP / 204 Def / 116 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe with Modest: This is the slowest you can can get away with using Flutter Mane, only outspeeding up to Jolly Urshifu-R. However it reaches the same SpA set as max SpA Timid (so you can fool players into thinking its the fast set), and maximizes Flutter Mane's ability to take physical hits with the rest, pulling stunts like surviving Adamant Tera Dark Urshifu-S's Sucker Punch after Stealth Rock damage, surviving Adamant Chien-Pao's Icicle Crash, and giving around a 93% chance of surviving Adamant Urshifu-R's Surging Strikes. The only calc you really HAVE to mention imo is the Adamant Urshifu-R calc (since its for messing with Scarf Urshifu-R, and is literally what the defensive EVs are there for).

116 HP / 204 Def / 52 SpA / 4 Def / 132 Spe with Timid: This outspeeds up to Jolly Roaring Moon, and survives the same stuff above (you'll have to mention calcs again and reword them though, not everyone should be reading every bullet!), however this does come at a pretty serious cost of only having a 50% to OHKO Urshifu formes with a neutral Tera with Moonblast, so this "fast bulky" spread is going to be forced to Tera a lot more.

Tera Water: Like Tera Electric I don't think this should be slashed in (Fairy and Stellar should def be the two main Teras), but I think its worth a bullet point because it helps a ton against Choice Scarf Urshifu-R AND Scizor.
 
i'm only going to chime in and say that the original ev spread is wasting ev's. if you're playing at level 50 and you're only investing in four stats (unless you have 0 speed iv) you've done something wrong. just as a rule of thumb.

144 = 140 investment at level 50. if the investment is divisible by 8, it's more than you need to be investing to get the same value. so 4 / 108 / 140 / 4 / 252+ is more optimal.
 
Flutter has so many options, another one I think just might work, as a more distant other options mention, is Energy Ball. Garganacl Lol nvm because it either resists grass w/ a tera, or takes more from Moonblast. Uh, but maybe for Swampert, I hate them setting rocks and cycling(or just rocks as mooblast cleans it in 2 turns.) I guess it's more to Luna BM, might get +1 after lo and rocks. Some chance to oger w after sr(t wave is better, but you may need to only pray they tera, and they aren't already, or you can't lock on electric based on their team. Better into the also high usage Primarina, extra important for AV imo. Hippo loses it's shot for rocks too. That's about it fo rthe BSS bigwigs hit by this move. It's np for me either way, just asking/suggesting.
 
Omastar68 said:
Flutter has so many options, another one I think just might work, as a more distant other options mention, is Energy Ball. Garganacl Lol nvm because it either resists grass w/ a tera, or takes more from Moonblast. Uh, but maybe for Swampert, I hate them setting rocks and cycling(or just rocks as mooblast cleans it in 2 turns.) I guess it's more to Luna BM, might get +1 after lo and rocks. Some chance to oger w after sr(t wave is better, but you may need to only pray they tera, and they aren't already, or you can't lock on electric based on their team. Better into the also high usage Primarina, extra important for AV imo. Hippo loses it's shot for rocks too. That's about it fo rthe BSS bigwigs hit by this move. It's np for me either way, just asking/suggesting.
Click to expand...
The biggest issue I have with Energy Ball here is that it overlaps too much with Thunderbolt in terms of what it wants to hit. Furthermore, both of the main matchups that Energy Ball has a corner on (Hippo and Swampert) are barely hanging on to top 50 usage right now and, while Thunderbolt is also niche, it actually has some high ladder data to support it alongside the occasional usage of Tera Electric on Specs sets.

Of course, if I'm missing a recent report that does have Energy Ball Mane, feel free to point it out. I tried to sniff one out on Rotoportal but no results came back for the last three seasons.

Personally, I could see Energy Ball having a fringe use (this last month has been insane for meta shakeups and crazy tech,) but objectively speaking I would hold off on adding it for the time being.
 
The surface level stuff is there but it still needs polish. Let's take another look:

add remove highlight (comment)

LOrd Fernado said:
:sv/flutter-mane::choice-specs:
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Moonblast
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Power Gem
move 4: Mystical Fire / Psyshock / Perish Song / Psyshock (Psyshock is actually pretty niche these days, so it should be the last slash)
item: Choice Specs
ability: Protosynthesis
nature: Timid
tera type: Fairy / Stellar
evs: 4 HP / 108 Def / 140 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Thanks to its base 135 Special Attack and Speed, Flutter Mane is a devastating breaker, outspeeding and blowing holes in majority of the bulky metagame's threats like defensive Dragonite,(RC) and Ting-Lu and Urshifu-R! (Urshifu-R is threatened by most Flutter Mane sets, not just Specs.)

* **Mystical Fire****Power Gem**: Power Gem is recommended to hit Flutter Mane's main resists, Chi-Yu and Ogerpon-H, for super effective damage. (What are these two resisting? Ogerpon-H resists Moonblast, but Chi-Yu's dual typing makes it neutral to Moonblast. You could mention the resists separately since Chi-Yu resists Shadow Ball, but that could be a bit verbose. I suggest rewording this or simply sticking with the super-effective part.)

* **Mystical Fire or versus Psyshock**: Mystical Fire allows Flutter Mane to hit resists like Scizor for big damage and Metagross (Metagross takes SE-damage from Shadow Ball, making it preferable to Mystical Fire), while also nerfing the power of special attackers like Iron Bundle, although Psyshock can be used to against Poison-types like Glimmora and Toxapex. (Physically defensive Toxapex is standard and takes comparable damage from Shadow Ball. My suggestion for a replacement would be Sneasler since Psyshock is the most reliable way to OHKO it before Tera.)

* **Perish Song**: Perish Song is the last alternative that can be used as an anti-setup option to counter specially bulky setup sweepers like Ursaluna-B and Primarina. (I would focus more on hard setup strats such as Baton Pass as opposed to specially bulky setup, especially since the two mentioned here are more general offense rather than setup based on general usage.)

Other Options
========

* **Tera Blast**: Tera Blast in conjunction with Tera Stellar can be used to make Flutter Mane a one-time unwallable threat (again, this is an exaggeration and simply not true since you only get super-effective damage if the opponent is Terastallized. Reword to focus on it countering surprise Terastallization types), at the cost of lowering its offensive prowess. (I know you are referring to the stat drop but without context this is an awkward statement to make after saying it makes Mane unwallable. I'd forego saying it or reword it according to how you handle rewording the first part.)

* **Thunderbolt**: Thunderbolt can be used to more reliably threaten Dondozo and Suicune, especially with Tera Stellar or Tera Electric.

* **Energy Ball**: Energy Ball is a very niche option that can be used to specifically hit OHKO Hippowdon and Swampert. (I'm fine with Energy Ball as an "Other Option," but I'd definitely mention Hippowdon as well. Also, when applicable, we want to point out if something is a reliable OHKO/2HKO/etc.)

Tera Types
========

* **Tera Dependency - Low**: Flutter Mane already has a stunning type combo, which doesn't need much of a boost. However, the Tera type can be used to boost Flutter Mane's offensive capabilities even further.

* **Tera Fairy**: Tera Fairy gives Flutter Mane a boost on Moonblast and helps it against threats like Chien-Pao and Urshifu-S. (How? Without context it sounds like boosting Moonblast improves these matchups even though regular Specs Moonblast already OHKOs them. Make sure to highlight why this is the case. An example here would be resisting Sucker Punch.)

* **Tera Stellar**: Tera Stellar allows Flutter Mane a huge offensive power boost (Stellar isn't a "huge" boost; focus instead on how the small one-time burst helps secure knockouts), and is especially effective with Tera Blast. (Reword this to be more specific based on how you handle the Tera Blast bullet above.)

* **Tera Electric**: Tera Electric in conjunction with Thunderbolt can OHKO Dondozo and Primarina, at the cost of not boosting its STAB. (Obvious and not worth mentioning, but you do need to mention the paralysis immunity I indicated in my original post.)

* **Tera Water**: Tera Water is a defensive option that patches up Flutter Mane's Steel-type weakness against foes like Archaludon and Scizor (You still need to mention resisting Surging Strikes from Scarf Urshifu-R), but forgoes the opportunity of an offensive boost. (Same as above, this doesn't need to be stated.)

EV Spreads
========

* **4 HP / 108 Def / 140 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with Timid**: This EV spread allows Flutter Mane to survive Chien-Pao's Sucker Punch before Terastallization. (What about the non-defensive EV's? Make sure you completely summarize what the spread is trying to accomplish.)

* **4 HP / 52 Def / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 212 Spe with Modest**: This EV spread doesn't outspeed Roaring Moon, but in exchange you now OHKO Max HP Ogerpon-H with Tera Stellar Power Gem. The defensive investment survives an Aqua Jet from a+2 Adamant Urshifu-R.

* **116 HP / 204 Def / 116 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe with Modest**: This EV spread only outspeeds up to the Jolly Urshifu formes, but maximizes Flutter Mane's ability to take hits, such as surviving a Tera Dark Sucker Punch from an Adamant Urshifu-S after Stealth Rock damage, surviving Adamant Chien-Pao's Icicle Crash, and has having a 93% chance to survive Surging Strikes from Adamant Urshifu-R.

116 HP / 204 Def / 52 SpA / 4 Def / 132 Spe with Timid: This EV spread only outspeeds up to Jolly Roaring Moon, and survives the same stuff above (you must reword/restate the calcs; assume the reader is not referencing other EV spreads), however this does come at a pretty serious cost of only having a 50% chance to OHKO Urshifu formes with a neutral Tera with Moonblast, so this spread forces Flutter Mane to Tera a lot more.

* **252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with Timid**: This is an alternate spread that can be used to max out Flutter Mane's damage output.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/lord-fernado.629794/
Quality checked by: (Do not forget to properly credit)
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user3.102/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user4.103/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user5.104/
Click to expand...

My biggest point of feedback is that if you are going to specifically reference a matchup, double-check that it makes sense (like Mystical Fire versus Shadow Ball against Metagross) and that your data on it is sound (Psyshock versus Shadow Ball against Toxapex.)

Implement the above and we'll give this another check.
 
LOrd Fernado said:
aight this is actually ready for qc this time
Click to expand...
Analysis looks great, thank you.

I did miss one thing: shouldn't say that Perish Song is the "last alternative" now that we're prioritizing it higher in the slashes. I would just say "alternative" there, or whatever generic term works best.

Only other thing is don't forget to credit Theorymon too for the EV spreads that he suggested.

Those are quick fixes though, so I'm going to go ahead and call this QC APPROVED! Tagging GP Team
 
Last edited:
1/1 GP Team done
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Moonblast
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Power Gem
move 4: Mystical Fire / Perish Song / Psyshock
item: Choice Specs
ability: Protosynthesis
nature: Timid
tera type: Fairy / Stellar
evs: 4 HP / 108 Def / 140 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Thanks to its base 135 high Special Attack and Speed, Flutter Mane is a devastating wallbreaker, outspeeding and blowing holes in bulky metagame threats like Dragonite and Ting-Lu!

* **Power Gem**: Power Gem is recommended to hit Chi-Yu and Ogerpon-H for super effective damage.

* **Mystical Fire versus Psyshock**: Mystical Fire allows Flutter Mane to hit Scizor for huge damage (RC) while also nerfing the power of special attackers like Iron Bundle, although Psyshock can be used against Poison-types like Glimmora and Sneasler.

* **Perish Song**: Perish Song is another alternative that can be used as an anti-setup option to counter team archetypes like Baton Pass.

Other Options
========

* **Tera Blast**: Tera Blast in conjunction with Tera Stellar can be used to make Flutter Mane a check to surprise Terastallizations from Urshifu-R or and Dragonite.

* **Thunderbolt**: Thunderbolt can be used to more reliably threaten Dondozo and Suicune, especially with Tera Stellar or Tera Electric.

* **Energy Ball**: Energy Ball is a very niche option that can be used to OHKO Hippowdon and Swampert.

Tera Types
========

* **Tera Dependency - Low**: Flutter Mane already has a stunning type combo combination, which doesn't need much of a boost. However, the Tera type can be used to boost Flutter Mane's offensive capabilities even further.

* **Tera Fairy**: Tera Fairy gives Flutter Mane a boost on Moonblast and helps it against Chien-Pao and Urshifu-S's Sucker Punch.

* **Tera Stellar**: Tera Stellar gives Flutter Mane a one-time nuke to secure knockouts (RC) and works especially well with Tera Blast.

* **Tera Electric**: Tera Electric in conjunction with Thunderbolt can OHKO Dondozo and Primarina, as well as a Paralysis providing Flutter Mane with a paralysis immunity.

* **Tera Water**: Tera Water is a defensive option that patches up Flutter Mane's Steel-type weakness against foes like Archaludon and Scizor, as well as resisting Urshifu-R's Surging Strikes.

EV Spreads
========

* **4 HP / 108 Def / 140 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with Timid**: This EV spread allows Flutter Mane to survive Chien-Pao's Sucker Punch before Terastallization (RC) while also maximizing Flutter Mane's Speed stat.

* **4 HP / 52 Def / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 212 Spe with Modest**: This EV spread doesn't outspeed Roaring Moon, but in exchange you now OHKO Max Flutter Mane OHKOes maximum HP Ogerpon-H with Tera Stellar Power Gem. The defensive investment survives an Aqua Jet from a +2 Adamant Urshifu-R.

* **116 HP / 204 Def / 116 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe with Modest**: This EV spread only outspeeds up to the Jolly Urshifu formes (RC) but maximizes Flutter Mane's ability to take hits, such as surviving a Tera Dark Sucker Punch from an Adamant Urshifu-S after Stealth Rock damage, surviving Adamant Chien-Pao's Icicle Crash, and having a 93% chance to survive Surging Strikes from Adamant Urshifu-R.

116 HP / 204 Def / 52 SpA / 4 Def / 132 Spe with Timid: This EV spread only outspeeds up to Jolly Roaring Moon (RC) and survives a Tera Dark Sucker Punch from an Adamant Urshifu-S after Stealth Rock damage, survives icicle Crash from an Adamant Chien-Pao's Icicle Crash, and having has a 93% chance to survive Surging Strikes from Adamant Urshifu-R, but this Urshifu-R. This does come at a pretty serious cost of only having a 50% chance to OHKO Urshifu formes with a neutral Tera with Moonblast, forcing Flutter Mane to Tera a lot more.

* **252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with Timid**: This is an alternate spread that can be used to max out maximize Flutter Mane's damage output.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/lord-fernado.629794/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/photon.516307/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/theorymon.29010/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/user5.104/
 
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