Celebi (Utility Lead)

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Korski

Korski

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/celebi

I've been testing a newer defensive Celebi lead that has been incredible and incredibly frustrating for my opponents. It's a bit of a mix between Uber Lead Celebi and OU Lead Celebi, so it might be OO or absorbed into one of those two sets if not outright scrapped for a lack of effectiveness or uniqueness (which, imo, is not the case). I've never done one of these before, so any help will be appreciated.

celebi.png

[SET]
name: Utility Lead
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Leaf Storm
move 4: U-turn / Protect
item: Occa Berry
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 60 SpA / 96 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A bulkier take on Lead Celebi, this set is designed to set up Stealth Rock and weather hits while performing a valuable scouting function with the Thunder Wave / U-turn combination. It matches up well against OU's most common leads, all but guaranteeing Stealth Rock while 2HKOing faster Taunt users like Azelf and Aerodactyl. Due to Celebi's impressive defenses, Thunder Wave is usually the best opening move, as it will give Celebi's switch-in a much easier time building momentum and will allow it to set up Stealth Rock on the following turn or U-turn out to an appropriate counter, saving Stealth Rock for later on in the match.</p>

<p>Thanks to Occa Berry and the given EVs, there is no common lead that can OHKO Celebi without a critical hit, allowing ample time to paralyze the opponent, set up Stealth Rock, and/or U-turn out, in whatever order seems best. In fact, the only common moves in OU that can OHKO this Celebi without stating-up first (bar Explosion and Selfdestruct) are Choice Band Scizor's U-turn and Choice Band Tyranitar's Pursuit on the switch. Celebi can U-turn out of Scizor with little worry, making Tyranitar the biggest threat to this set; however, if Celebi stays in and has above 57% HP, it is guaranteed two turns to either 2HKO with Leaf Storm + Stealth Rock damage 89% of the time, or both paralyze Tyranitar and hit it for 56.7% - 66.7% damage before going down, turning Tyranitar into much less of a threat for later on in the battle. On the less common side of things, Heracross's Megahorn, Choice Specs Magnezone's Signal Beam, and Adamant Choice Band Flygon's / Infernape's U-turn will OHKO, while Choice Specs Jolteon's Signal Beam has a 33% chance to OHKO, so be on the lookout for them.</p>

<p>The EVs are tailored to the lead metagame, such that Celebi is never 2HKOed by Metagross's Meteor Mash or Azelf's Fire Blast (barring max damage both turns for Azelf), meaning Celebi can paralyze, set up Stealth Rock, and U-turn to the appropriate counter, breaking opposing Focus Sashes in the process. They give Celebi 404 / 261 / 286 defenses, which is bulky enough to take +1 or +2 hits from the likes of Dragon Dance Gyarados and Calm Mind Latias mid to late-game while halting their sweeps with Thunder Wave. 60 Special Attack EVs are the minimum required to 2HKO opposing Aerodactyl and Azelf while OHKOing Swampert and having a 33% chance to OHKO Hippowdon.</p>

<p>Protect may be used over U-turn in the fourth slot if you want Celebi to scout for Choice users or Explosion, which is especially useful for a lead like Celebi, as many paralyzed leads such as Metagross, Heatran, and Azelf will prefer to go out with a bang over staying in as death fodder for later. Celebi is also great at drawing in Choice users, especially Scizor, who love to abuse U-turn to hit Celebi's glaring 4x weakness, so Protect may be useful in those cases so you can switch in something to take the hit and save Celebi for later. Usually, however, U-turn will be more useful for breaking Sashes and advantageously switching in other teammates, so Protect is the lesser option.</p>

<p>This Celebi has problems staying in for more than a few turns and poses no offensive threat to the likes of Infernape, Heatran, or Metagross, and its only powerful attack drastically lowers its Special Attack stat every time it uses it. As such, teammates that can quickly come in and take advantage of a paralyzed foe make great partners. Life Orb or Substitute Heatran is Celebi's classic partner and can grab a Flash Fire boost from the likes of leading Infernape, Heatran, and Azelf who take the offensive route right off the bat, although it must be wary of ShucaTran. Bulky stat-uppers like Gyarados and Latias also enjoy the immediate threat they pose against paralyzed foes, as does Substitute +3 Attacks Machamp. The only common leads Celebi has trouble with are Gliscor and sleep-inducing leads like Roserade and Smeargle. Gliscor, who can Taunt Celebi and has access to Roost, prevents Celebi both from 2HKOing and getting Stealth Rock up. Roserade and Smeargle both outrun and can use Sleep Powder/Spore to set up entry hazards, although Natural Cure will allow Celebi to switch out and free itself of status. For these reasons, Starmie makes an excellent partner, as it can scare off Gliscor, put a dent in Roserade and Smeargle, and has the added bonus of using Rapid Spin to remove opponents' entry hazards. It also has Natural Cure to free itself of poison / sleep status, so it won't be crippled throughout the match (it is advisable, however, to not switch Starmie directly into Roserade unless its Focus Sash is broken, as its STAB Grass attacks will OHKO).</p>
 
Shouldn't you aim to outpace at least Heatran? Otherwise Shuca Heatran leads will beat you.

Edit: Yeah you're right Flash. I'm just used to Celebi lead beating Heatran leads I guess. Interesting set.
 
Admiral_Korski said:
[SET]
name: Utility Lead
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Leaf Storm
move 4: U-turn / Protect
item: Occa Berry
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 60 SpA / 96 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A bulkier take on Lead Celebi, this set is designed to get Stealth Rock up and weather hits while performing a valuable scouting function with the Thunder Wave / U-turn combination. It matches up well against OU's most common leads, all but guaranteeing Stealth Rock while 2HKOing faster Taunt users like Azelf and Aerodactyl. Due to Celebi's impressive defenses, Thunder Wave is usually your best opening move, as it will give your switch-in a much easier time building momentum and will allow you to set up Stealth Rock on the following turn or U-turn out to an appropriate counter, saving Stealth Rock for later on in the match.</p>

<p>remove spaceThanks to Occa Berry and the given EVs, there is no common lead that can OHKO Celebi without a critical hit, allowing ample time to set up Stealth Rock, paralysis, and/or U-turn out, in whatever order seems best. In fact, the only common non-Self KO moves in OU that can OHKO this Celebi without stating-up first are Scizor's U-turn and Choice Band Tyranitar's Pursuit when swapping out, both of which you can U-turn out of with health to spare. On the less common side of things, Heracross's Megahorn, Choice Specs Magnezone's Signal Beam, and Adamant Choice Band Flygon's/Infernape's U-turn will OHKO, while Choice Specs Jolteon's Signal Beam has a 33% chance to OHKO, so be on the lookout for them (not really).</p>

<p>The EVs are tailored to the lead metagame, such that Celebi is never 2HKO'd by Metagross' Meteor Mash or Azelf's Fire Blast (barring max damage roll twice for the latter), meaning you can paralyze, set up rocks, and U-turn to the appropriate counter, breaking opposing Focus Sashes in the process. They give Celebi 404 / 261 / 286 defenses, which is bulky enough to take +1 or +2 hits from the likes of DD Gyarados and CM Latias while halting their sweeps with Thunder Wave. 60 SpA EVs are the minimum required to 2HKO opposing Aerodactyl and Azelf while OHKOing Swampert and having a 33% chance to OHKO Hippowdon.</p>

<p>Protect may be used over U-turn in the fourth slot if you want to scout for Choice users or Explosion, which is especially useful for a lead like Celebi, as many paralyzed leads, such as Metagross, Heatran, and Azelf will prefer to go out with a bang over staying in as death fodder for later. Celebi is also great at drawing in Choice users, especially Scizor, who love to abuse U-turn to hit Celebi's glaring 4x weakness, so Protect may be useful in those cases so you can switch in something to take the hit and save Celebi for later. Usually, however, U-turn will be more useful for breaking Sashes and advantageously switching in other teammates, so Protect is the lesser option.</p>

<p>This Celebi has problems staying in for more than a few turns and poses no offensive threat to the likes of Infernape, Heatran, or Metagross, and its only powerful attack halves its Special Attack stat every time it uses it. As such, teammates that can quickly come in and take advantage of a paralyzed foe make great partners. Life Orb or Substitute Heatran is Celebi's classic partner, and can grab a Flash Fire boost from the likes of Lead Infernape, Heatran, and Azelf who take the offensive route right off the bat, although it must be wary of ShucaTran. Bulky stat-uppers like Gyarados and Latias also enjoy the immediate threat they pose against paralyzed foes, as does Subinsert space+3 Attacks Machamp. The only common leads Celebi has trouble with are Gliscor and Roserade. Gliscor, who can Taunt Celebi and has access to Roost, prevents Celebi both from 2HKOing and getting rocks up. Roserade can use Sleep Powder and set up entry hazards, although Natural Cure will allow you to switch out and free yourself of status. For these reasons, Starmie makes an excellent partner, as it can scare off Gliscor, put a dent in Roserade, and has the added bonus of Spinning away opponents' entry hazards, with Natural Cure of its own to free itself of Poison/Sleep status (it is advisable, though, to not switch Starmie directly into Roserade unless its Sash is broken, as its STAB Grass attacks will OHKO).</p>
Click to expand...
 
changes in black, removals in red, comments in purple!

<p>A bulkier take on Lead Celebi, this set is designed to set up Stealth Rock and weather hits while performing a valuable scouting function with the Thunder Wave / U-turn combination. It matches up well against OU's most common leads, all but guaranteeing Stealth Rock while 2HKOing faster Taunt users like Azelf and Aerodactyl. Due to Celebi's impressive defenses, Thunder Wave is usually the best opening move, as it will give Celebi's switch-in a much easier time building momentum and will allow it to set up Stealth Rock on the following turn or U-turn out to an appropriate counter, saving Stealth Rock for later on in the match.</p>

<p>Thanks to Occa Berry and the given EVs, there is no common lead that can OHKO Celebi without a critical hit, allowing ample time to set up Stealth Rock, paralyze, and/or U-turn out, in whatever order seems best. In fact, the only common non-Self KO moves in OU that can OHKO this Celebi without stating-up first (barring Explosion) are Choice Band Scizor's U-turn and Choice Band Tyranitar's Pursuit, both of which Celebi can U-turn out of with health to spare. On the less common side of things, Heracross's Megahorn, Choice Specs Magnezone's Signal Beam, and Adamant Choice Band Flygon's / Infernape's U-turn will OHKO, while Choice Specs Jolteon's Signal Beam has a 33% chance to OHKO, so be on the lookout for them (not really).</p>

<p>The EVs are tailored to the lead metagame, such that Celebi is never 2HKO'd by Metagross's Meteor Mash or Azelf's Fire Blast (unless said Fire Blast deals maximum damage on both turns), meaning Celebi can paralyze, set up Stealth Rock, and U-turn to the appropriate counter, breaking opposing Focus Sashes in the process. They give Celebi 404 / 261 / 286 defenses, which is bulky enough to take +1 or +2 hits from the likes of DD Gyarados and CM Latias while halting their sweeps with Thunder Wave. 60 SpA EVs are the minimum required to 2HKO opposing Aerodactyl and Azelf while OHKOing Swampert and having a 33% chance to OHKO Hippowdon.</p>

<p>Protect may be used over U-turn in the fourth slot if you want Celebi to scout for Choice users or Explosion, which is especially useful for a lead like Celebi, as many paralyzed leads, (remove comma) such as Metagross, Heatran, and Azelf will prefer to go out with a bang over staying in as death fodder for later. Celebi is also great at drawing in Choice users, especially Scizor, who love to abuse U-turn to hit Celebi's glaring 4x weakness, so Protect may be useful in those cases so you can switch in something to take the hit and save Celebi for later. Usually, however, U-turn will be more useful for breaking Sashes and advantageously switching in other teammates, so Protect is the lesser option.</p>

<p>This Celebi has problems staying in for more than a few turns and poses no offensive threat to the likes of Infernape, Heatran, or Metagross leads, and its only powerful attack, drastically lowers (halves just seems like a weird word imo) its Special Attack stat every time it uses it. As such, teammates that can quickly come in and take advantage of a paralyzed foe make great partners. Life Orb or Substitute Heatran is Celebi's classic partner, and can grab a Flash Fire boost from the likes of leading Infernape, Heatran, and Azelf who take the offensive route right off the bat, although it must be wary of ShucaTran. Bulky stat-uppers like Gyarados and Latias also enjoy the immediate threat they pose against paralyzed foes, as does Substitute +3 attacks Machamp. The only common leads Celebi has trouble with are Gliscor and Roserade. Gliscor, who can Taunt Celebi and has access to Roost, prevents Celebi both from 2HKOing and getting rocks up. Roserade can use Sleep Powder and set up entry hazards, although Natural Cure will allow Celebi to switch out and free itself of status. For these reasons, Starmie makes an excellent partner, as it can scare off Gliscor, put a dent in Roserade, and has the added bonus of using Rapid Spin to clear away opponents' entry hazards, with Natural Cure of its own to free itself of poison / sleep status (it is advisable, though, to not switch Starmie directly into Roserade unless its Sash is broken, as its STAB Grass attacks will OHKO).</p>

Nice job Admiral Korski...wasn't this the Celebi lead on your team that I rated? :P
 
Thanks for the edits, guys; I've made the recommended changes.

@Phillip7086: This Celebi isn't played offensively unless it has to be. It's primary function is to cripple other leads / switch-ins, allowing for an easier transition out of the lead game and setting up offensive momentum early on. Its advantage comes with its bulk, allowing it to take several hits and set up its teammates for easier sweeps with paralysis support, often times throughout the match, while still getting up Stealth Rock.

Anyways, I was thinking about adding a sentence about how opposing leads (I'm thinking Taunt-less Azelf, Infernape, Heatran, and Metagross here) that take the offensive right off the bat will have trouble setting up Stealth Rock themselves once they've been paralyzed due to their dependence on speed, general frailty, or their over-customization to the lead metagame and can be put on the defensive very quickly if Celebi can U-turn out to a strong offensive teammate. Is it worth mentioning that Celebi can shift certain opposing leads' priorities away from setting up SR?

Oh, and Snorlaxe, yes, this is the Celebi lead from my RMT. I've put it on a couple teams since then, and it's really performing well.
 
<p>The EVs are tailored to the lead metagame, such that Celebi is never 2HKOed by Metagross's Meteor Mash or Azelf's Fire Blast (barring max damage both turns for Azelf), meaning Celebi can paralyze, set up Stealth Rock, and U-turn to the appropriate counter, breaking opposing Focus Sashes in the process. They give Celebi 404 / 261 / 286 defenses, which is bulky enough to take +1 or +2 hits from the likes of Dragon Dance Gyarados and CM Latias mid- to late-game while halting their sweeps with Thunder Wave. 60 Special Attack EVs are the minimum required to 2HKO opposing Aerodactyl and Azelf while OHKOing Swampert and having a 33% chance to OHKO Hippowdon.</p>

<p>This Celebi has problems staying in for more than a few turns and poses no offensive threat to the likes of Infernape, Heatran, or Metagross, and its only powerful attack drastically lowers its Special Attack stat every time it uses it. As such, teammates that can quickly come in and take advantage of a paralyzed foe make great partners. Life Orb or Substitute Heatran is Celebi's classic partner and can grab a Flash Fire boost from the likes of leading Infernape, Heatran, and Azelf who take the offensive route right off the bat, although it must be wary of ShucaTran. Bulky stat-uppers like Gyarados and Latias also enjoy the immediate threat they pose against paralyzed foes, as does Substitute +3 Attacks Machamp. The only common leads Celebi has trouble with are Gliscor and Roserade. Gliscor, who can Taunt Celebi and has access to Roost, prevents Celebi both from 2HKOing and getting Rocks up. Roserade can use Sleep Powder and set up entry hazards, although Natural Cure will allow Celebi to switch out and free itself of status. For these reasons, Starmie makes an excellent partner, as it can scare off Gliscor, put a dent in Roserade, and has the added bonus of using Rapid Spin to remove opponents' entry hazards and also has Natural Cure to free itself of poison / sleep status (it is advisable, however, to not switch Starmie directly into Roserade unless its Focus Sash is broken, as its STAB Grass attacks will OHKO).</p>
 
Thanks, Xia, I've made those changes.

@Phantom_IV: You can, actually, U-turn out of Pursuit "with health to spare," as it only has 40 base power against U-turn and does 49.5% - 58.4% damage. It's a pretty big hit, but not enough to render Celebi useless for the rest of the match.
 
Philip7086 said:
Shouldn't you aim to outpace at least Heatran? Otherwise Shuca Heatran leads will beat you.

Edit: Yeah you're right Flash. I'm just used to Celebi lead beating Heatran leads I guess. Interesting set.
Click to expand...
No, Phil has a point. I think Celebi should be given more speed to at least outpace something like Smeargle. Letting Smeargle set up SR+Spikes or two layers of Spikes right in the beginning will suck because it still will have Focus Sash in tact. Since most Smeargle should have Taunt, T-Wave and SR will be pretty useless near the beginning of the match.

I personally like a 252 spe/252 sp.atk lead better, but I see the merit of the posted lead.
 
Oh I guess I wasn't quite sure about the "faster than / slower than" problem with U-turn on the Pursuit when I wrote this. I've edited the OP regarding how to deal with Tyranitar. I also added the threat of Smeargle to the teammates section, although it didn't really change it all too much, as Starmie + anything else faster than Smeargle will take it down unless the opponent just spams Spore for the first few turns. The Speed investment needed to outrun Smeargle and Heatran greatly compromises the set's strengths, and Celebi already does its job against Heatran just fine, so I don't think they're really needed, as you can deal with Smeargle in the manner you would if you had a Swampert, Hippowdon, Bronzong, or non-Lum Metagross lead, of which there are a plethora of options.
 
If you want to escape safely from Pursuit, you'll have to use Baton Pass. I'm not sure but Earth Power might be a good option if your faster than Heatran, so I think it should have a slot somewhere?
 
Just a quick note: You don't need to include the "ability:" part of the set because Celebi only has one ability. If a Pokemon has two, then you would put that.
 
Sorry for bumping this, but I think the thread should be locked and moved to L&O, as there is a Lead set on-site already. If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.
 
I actually like this set better than the one on site. The reason being is that it has Thunder Wave over Earth Power and focuses on Celebi's above average defenses rather than her not-the-greatest Special Attack. This set, rather than trying to hit as many leads as possible, uses Thunder Wave to paralyze stuff like Heatran and Infernape, which it can't handle. Then it can U-turn to a counter. Maybe it's just me, but I just like the role this set plays a little bit better than the current lead set. However, I would disagree with two lead Celebi being put on site.
 
I agree with MetaNite that this set is fairly different from the one on-site and has some advantages. However, due to inactivity and cleaning things up, I am locking this thread. This also never went through the QC process, which I'm not convinced it would have passed. If he wants to re-post this set, he will have to go through QC. This topic will always be available in the future to look up should it pass QC, and he can just copy paste the analysis written thus far.
 
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