CAP 36 - Part 4 - Ability Discussion

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My favorite for sure is Lightning Rod (or some kind of Electric-immunity in general), but I wanted to actually make an anti-suggestion because I adamantly think this ability would greatly damage this process: Levitate (and Earth Eater, by extension).

On paper, Levitate is a no-brainer since it does an amazing job at letting the defensive form be a lingering presence with deluxe resistances and its primary Achilles heel accounted for, and it can make it a lot easier to click our transformation move. It's excellent on all accounts for our defensive form, However, that's about where the appeal ends. While it's true that Levitate would also benefit our offensive form, it benefits the form far, far less than the defensive form. By the time it's active, it's not intending to take as many hits, including into Ground-type Pokemon which it can threaten with its Ice-type STAB.

This on paper is not a problem if we're trying to leverage our transformation and defensive profile to make progress, but this disparity only worsens the big, immutable problem with Levitate: the defensive profile it obtains becomes too good. Remember that we are spending a moveslot and a turn on our transformation as well as compromising most of our defensive integrity. Furthermore, we'll most likely be packed with utility, given the concept around the framework incentivizing CAP 36 to use its own utility to convert an advantage for itself. If we decide to omit the utility in anticipation of this, then CAP 36's concept becomes far more difficult to realize, especially without an ability that can help it compress moveslots like No Guard or convert an advantage more directly like with Lightning Rod. With such a deluxe defensive profile and at least decent utility, why would we ever want to spend both a turn and a moveslot to transform?

Plus also it's boring as fuck but that's not objective I guess.
 
Going to bring up an ability already previously talked about prior to suggestions being Filter.
Filter gives CAP36 a really good chance of being able to flexibly use both forms with Fire/Steel already being a solid defensive typing but with some glaring weaknesses to which Filter will be able to help out nicely without making the CAP feel too overbearing defensively. As for the Fire/Ice form, not only does Filter allow for the transformation between both forms to become a lot easier by taking a hit on potentially a slower defensive form pre transformation but also allows Fire/Ice which is a fantastic offensive typing but not so great defensive typing to also potentially be able to take a hit if we are going for a slow route on both forms.

Another ability that looks really interesting already suggested is No Guard. We can use this to explore moves we commonly don't see be used on both a defensive/offensive mon due to low accuracy but can be balanced out in the stat process to ensure the potential damage upgrade in the moves BP doesn't become too overwhelming. Main examples mentioned being Inferno which a guaranteed burn status on a bulkier defensive form would work wonderfully against the likes of Gliscor trying to switch in on the first turn, Blizzard was also mentioned which would definitely be appreciated on the offensive form depending how the stats are handled, allowing us to potentially focus more on the defensive stats which would align with the Concept.
 
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Throwing my support behind No Guard:
In a more general sense both Fire and Ice STABs benefit incredibly by increased accuracy, as both sport several incredibly high power moves, with lowered accuracy.
Obviously this benefits mostly the secondary form, though increased damage output is good for a tank as well, possibly allowing more defensively inclined stats without compromising damage output.
That said the moves that No Guard unlocks can benefit a disruptive or defensive playstyle too. You could be spreading status at unprecedented power with the likes of Inferno or Zap Cannon (or Blizzard yay!) giving you better bulk against switching that are burned or allowing you to steal a turn or two with a full para OR you could disrupt the opponents game plan by trapping them with 100% accurate Magma Storm so we can truly bring back Heatran. (This is not meant as a joke)
(It also means that Rock types get buffed :D)
There is a downside to it however (not a huge mind you). CAP 36 will be unable to luck out on the opponents attempts to para it.

This brings me to another topic.
I agree with people that paralysis is a big issue for this mon given the mons it wants to check.
However idt it is necessary to go for an outright immunity to electric. Except for the status our typing only mildly interacts with Electric types. An immunity makes Raging Bolt extremely favorable, but Bolt isn’t super hard to deal with in CAP imo. Otherwise you make zapdos even sadder.
Overall I think other status Absorption has more merit - especially Limber, which is extremely targeted at just solving this issue and purifying salt which gives us an insane pult and Dengo matchup, something that feels more relevant than bolt or zappy, either allowing us much more leeway in the following stages or improving matchups in much more relevant mons alongside buffing matchups into status spread.
 
Gonna throw my hat in the ring for another type immunity ability - Storm Drain.

This Ability hits a really nice sweet spot between offensive and defensive utility for us IMO. While there aren't as many Water types in the current CAP metagame as one would expect, the ones we do have are really, really good. Being able to switch into Water-type moves from top tier threats like Cresceidon, Primarina, Wogerpon, Alomomola, Hisuirott, Krilowatt, and Snaelstrom is really, really good. It also plays really nicely with our concept, not only providing us with another immunity to improve our defensive form's utility (an immunity that would otherwise be a weakness, mind you!), but the Special Attack boost makes it a lot easier for our offensive form to clean up. Very underrated choice IMO.

As for other Ability suggestions, I do agree that paralysis is probably the thing we want to avoid the most with this CAP, but like Amamama said, a full on Electric immunity feels like overkill. I do like Lightning Rod for similar reasons as Storm Drain, but unlike Storm Drain, there aren't as many Electric types to take advantage of - aside from Krilowatt (which Storm Drain also helps with), the only other matchups Lightning Rod helps with are Raging Bolt, Shox, and Zapdos, so I just don't think it'll see as much use in practice. If we're going with a status prevention Ability, I'm a much bigger fan of Purifying Salt, which is probably my second favorite Ability for this CAP behind Storm Drain. The combination of paralysis immunity and being able to reliably check Ghost types like Dragapult, Kitsunoh, and Gholdengo (as long as the latter isn't running Focus Blast) is just way too good imo.

No Guard is an Ability I'm on the fence about - while 100% Inferno does sound really funny, 4MSS is already a big problem for this CAP by virtue of our framework, and I'm a tad bit concerned that picking an Ability like this that's so reliant on specific moves might make the movepool stage even trickier. I do like it a lot more than Toxic Chain, though, which I just find to be a really strange choice. Like being able to spread Toxic while also threatening Steel types sounds neat, but... what does spreading Toxic do for us that spreading burns doesn't? It just confuses me.

Finally, I STRONGLY agree with ausma that we shouldn't go anywhere near Levitate/Earth Eater. It's not only too powerful than the other type immunity Abilities for this CAP, but it's also just... a boring choice. It just doesn't feel creative, and CAP is always more fun when we don't go with the obvious choices.
 
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Tossing my name in alongside Lightningrod and Storm Drain as two abilities that provide nice defensive profile additions to stuff like Volt Switch, Thunder Wave, Flip Turn, and Scald. This could, also, in theory, serve in a way towards our "prepping for the sweep", as a "free" +1 is no joke. It provides a wonderful defensive addition without it being the generic Levitate conversation we have regularly, while also providing an offensive boost for those clever enough to navigate it.

I'd also like to propose Rough Skin/Iron Barbs, as something a cleaner loves is for chip to be spread around places. Garchomp is a pretty good exemplar of this line of thinking, as it appreciates eating stuff like U-Turns or Fake Outs or whatever as it comes in with its respectable natural bulk, doing non-negligable damage in return for free. I can definitely remember plenty of times where 2HKOs became KOs and 3HKOs became untenable for an opposition purely because of the chip from trying to hit Garchomp back.

Finally, I am a fan of status-inflicting abilities - I recognize that No Guard has done this in quite a clever way and for that I find that very alluring, but stuff like Flame Body or Toxic Chain can provide us with a meaningful interesting way to set up for a sweep later on. No Guard is such a fascinating way of accomplishing this while providing a cool approach to building (both the 'mon here and in the builder in the future) - that's the one that sounds most fun to me!
 
I didn’t get a great chance this week to answer the questions earlier, but generally, abilities that help our cleaner form’s offenses are useful. If we don’t plan on having setup via moves, supplying some way to boost our offense with ability seems natural. Even getting a +1 boost can help based on preliminary calcs.

Berserk and Anger Shell are two abilities I’ve really liked so far. Our more defensive form can make progress early game while soaking up damage, and then Berserk or Anger Shell can activate, facilitating a sweep in our cleaner form. These abilities play fairly differently despite having similar effects. Berserk has an easier time trying to gather more than one boost in combination with some form of recovery, while Anger Shell is likely activating once per battle, but that +1 speed is really good.

No Guard is a great option here. Making our generally more powerful moves 100% accurate is much more of an upside than making our opponents moves 100% accurate against us when we’re primarily trying to clean. The moveslot compression is also useful for the base form to make progress without transforming.

Lightning Rod and Storm Drain are both good immunity abilities that can provide a +1 boost. I think Lightning Rod is slightly better if only to prevent Thunder Wave from hampering our cleaner form. Out of all the immunity abilities, these make the most sense on paper.

I’ve also seen Supreme Overlord mentioned in the discord a couple times, which does boost our offenses fairly directly. I think it makes sense for a cleaner, but it’s not really my favorite conceptually.

Echoing @ausma’s assessment on Levitate. It serves the base form way too much, making me question how we could make the cleaner form alluring enough to force the base form to drop a moveslot for CAP song.
 
Going to put my support behind Magic Bounce and No Guard.

Magic Bounce is an ability that provides massive value to both forms. Immunity to most status moves like T-Wave, Taunt, Encore, Whirlwind, and plenty more enable the base form to stay in while the cleaner form can't be gutted in its cleaning very easily. Being able to bounce back hazards is incredibly strong, and provides consistent value in both forms while still benefitting the cleaner form enough to justify the transformation. It's my current favorite option in how much it provides to both forms and how unique it's role is as a hybrid bulky/cleaner Magic Bounce user.

No Guard enables a good amount of role compression through Inferno, being a very high power STAB with a reliable status which is beneficial to the role of the base form which can spread status and increases sweepability in the cleaner form with a high BP move, alongside enabling Blizzard and strong coverage. I initially had reservations about 100% accurate unmissable burn being enough reasoning to forgo CAP Song on the base form, but the increased BP and access to Blizzard makes me think differently.

I'm also a fan of Lightning Rod to threaten Raging Bolt, stop Volt Switch pivots and generally provide an immunity and a SpATK boost (albeit rarely on that last part), which is a defensive and offensive benefit. Storm Drain is less desirable to me due to the overlap with Dry Skin Mollux, two defensive Fire types immune to Water is a bit much and can incentivize dropping CAP Song for the defensive behemoth of a Fire/Steel immune to Water.

Levitate is a no. If Storm Drain was a bit much defensively for the base form, Levitate pushes the cleaner form off a cliff never to be seen again.
 
Paralysis is definitely going to be a big problem for 36, so I support Volt Absorb. This can certainly support the offensive form too cough cough waterpon. Lightning Rod would also be fine, but I'm wary it might end up benefiting the offensive form too much. If I switch in to Raging Bolt or Zapdos and get a free +1, I don't see why I wouldn't immediately Relic Song and start trying to punch holes, defensive utility be damned. Ultimately, if one or the other benefits one form too much, maybe we can just stick with Limber.

I am apprehensive towards Berserk. I'm afraid 36 would start running :moltres-galar: sets, with Sitrus or even Resto Chesto trying to fish for multiple boosts. I'm very doubtful 36 would get Nasty Plot or anything, but these kind of sets are viable they might be too anti-concept. That said, I suppose we can consider this as the defensive form setting the offensive form up for a sweep, in a strict sense.

Anger Shell certainly wouldn't pose the same concerns, but I'm also afraid it would be too weak. From the defensive form, 36 will be at less than half health, stuck with lower defenses, and it's only getting +1 offenses for its trouble. Unless you make an extreme prediction and Relic Song the same turn Anger Shell pops, the defensive form, which might be slower than many offensive mons even at +1 speed, needs to land it's limp 75 BP Relic Song on what would need to be an OHKO or a predicted switch if you don't want to faint immediately. It might be more trouble than it's worth.

Also a fan of No Guard, which is both creative and useful for spreading guaranteed burns and enabling strong moves like Blizzard, even if it might impair 36's matchup into Focus Blast demons like :iron-crown::darkrai::gholdengo:
 
Wanted to bring up an ability that I've gone back and forth on and has gotten a little bit of discord chatter- Speed Boost. While it's easier to see how it benefits the second form, arguably the biggest benefit to 36 is helping align the ev's of both forms. The sweeper form will at worst start a turn with +1 speed and could easily get higher, helping alleviate the need to run max or high speed investment. Putting more evs into bulk helps our base form do its job better. With the extra bulk investment for the base form its even conceivable to try building up a few boosts before transforming, letting our sweeper play similar to dd'ers that plan on clicking dd multiple times, such as bulky ddtar in gen 3, which doesn't need nearly as much speed investment letting it run more bulk and attack.
 
Quick post here, but I'd like to toss my support for what little it's worth behind No Guard. I do see Ayecrusher's points behind how Stone Edge and Fighting coverage get buffed, but I really believe that giving this CAP Inferno and Blizzard as strong STABs is a great concept. My one concern is how it would interact with the stats of the defensive CAP - 36b would likely have to turn into something Aegislash-like in order for this concept to truly shine without forcing CAP Song to be an afterthought.
 
Gonna crawl out of the woodwork here to also throw in my hat on No Guard and Magic Bounce.

No Guard presents a really interesting marriage of offensive potential with defensive utility, that also helps to consolidate some moveslots for 36. Inferno is obviously the big draw here; though I wouldn’t exactly call it spammable (8pp is a bit rough), the guaranteed burn is a little nutty. Blizzard is also a very alluring option here for 36b, as is the extremely funny Fuck You Water Types button in Zap Cannon. The combination of high-powered BoltBeam (one of which becomes a STAB nuke with 36b) and strong fire STAB, all compressing utility by threatening guaranteed burns and paralysis, is a pretty insane load out for both formes. Obviously it sucks that Rock type moves, among others, are buffed against us, but I think the pros far outweigh the cons here. No Guard easily has my top vote.

Magic Bounce is also an incredibly powerful ability for our purposes. As others have mentioned, rebounding status moves is a massive boon for 36. Thunder Wave and Glare? No problem. Will-O and Toxic (however little it may exist)? Done, easy. Hazards? Return to sender. Magic Bounce users are always useful in a given metagame — this ability would provide us an instant niche whilst also safeguarding us against one of our biggest hindrances in Paralysis. Definitely worth slating.

Lightning Rod would be fine I guess, but it feels underpowered. It’s certainly helpful for turning our vulnerability to Paralysis (as well as any Electric moves we can switch into) into a buff, but outside of that it doesn’t really feel like it enhances our kit in any meaningful way. Rather, it simply mitigates an obstacle. Storm Drain does the same for our Water weakness.

I find this to be an issue, which is why I want to advocate against both Lightning Rod and Storm Drain. I think for 36, we need an ability that not only incentivizes opportunistic swapping between both formes (and for both formes to be viable) but also actively embellishes the inherent strengths of either half of the kit. An ability that is simply purposed towards checking off one threat does not do that. It makes things a little easier in certain circumstances, sure, but I don’t think it makes 36 better in all circumstances. I believe this is the essential criterion we need to be operating by here. We need an ability that makes us as universally strong a threat as possible.

In this sense, abilities like Rough Skin/Iron Barbs, Flame Body, etc. seem to only really benefit the gameplan of our defensive form. Our offensive form most likely does not care for sponging a hit to punish aggressive play. I personally am of the mind that we need an ability that actively benefits both formes. On the flip side, I also am not the hugest fan of abilities that only really benefit the offensive form, like Anger Shell. Berserk is a little more interesting in that it incentivizes a form change, but I think No Guard and Magic Bounce are far better options.

Finally, I’m gonna join the chorus in tossing out a fat, resounding No Thanks on Levitate. While it does benefit both formes, it also just feels far too overpowered, especially for our defensive profile in 36a.

TL;DR — We need an ability that benefits both formes and incentivizes opportunistic swapping between them. Further, our ability needs to actively enhance the inherent strengths of our kit, not merely mitigate one potential weakness. I therefore strongly support No Guard first and Magic Bounce second.
 
Throwing my support for Purifying Salt, No Guard, and Magic Bounce. These three abilities enhance both forms well enough with a bias towards the offensive form, which is what we want.

Also anti-support the abilities that benefit the base form too much (Levitate, Regenerator, Rough Skin/Iron Barbs, Flame Body).
 
Posting support for: No Guard, Lightning Rod/Volt Absorb, Purifying Salt, Berzerk
Each offers unique benefits without overshadowing the transformation, something I think other abilities (i.e. Levitate) might risk.
 
Posting my support for Magic Bounce, No Guard, Berserk, and Lightning Rod. I think these all benefit both forms without making one easily more useful than the other (yes even Berserk, it’s easier to activate that ability when you’re a Fire/Steel type and not a Fire/Ice type!) and also offer some really cool new interactions for the metagame at large. Whether that be No Guard allowing for super niche moves to come out, Lightning Rod giving us unique matchups into Electrics, or Berserk just being on a mon that isn’t Goltres.

Also agree on the “NOOOOOO MORE LEVITATE STEELS!!!” train lol. I’m glad I wasn’t the one to have to start it.
 
Alright, let's get rolling. Two abilities I like, three I dislike.

Firstly, I am gonna add my voice to the chorus of support for No Guard. As others have mentioned, this ability would mean CAP36 has some downright terrifying potential move compression in Inferno, giving a move that both provides immense utility for the defensive form and good power for the cleaner form. Combined with Blizzard and other potential coverage, No Guard goes a long way in addressing the moveset conundrum that will otherwise be a headscratcher down the line.

Likewise, I wholeheartedly support Purifying Salt. Of the various abilities seeking to address paralysis — a route I definitely support — this is the one I find most attractive given its stronger secondary applications. The biggest one to note is the added resistance to Ghost, which makes it much easier to fully wall Dragapult, Gholdengo, and Kitsunoh. Fire/Steel as a defensive typing has a good number of individual resistances, but struggles to outright counter mons in the meta due to everyone and their mother being insanely strong attackers which either hit us neutrally or pack coverage that hurts as is. While Purifying Salt does not fully address this alone (Dragapult and Gholdengo have Hydro Pump and Focus Blast respectively), it certainly takes a step towards doing so. Likewise, the cleaner form (or base form when Tera'd) not being able to get poisoned is a solid bit of relief.

Lightning Rod, like Purifying Salt, seeks to address paralysis for the cleaner while providing benefit to the defensive form. However, I'm more skeptical of Lightning Rod here. While it is true that Raging Bolt, Shox, and Zapdos are noteworthy in the meta, they are nowhere near as common as the three ghosts mentioned above; each of the electric-types are B+ right now on the VR, whereas Dragapult is A+ and the other two are in A. I just feel the immunity simply will not come into play often enough to meaningfully enhance the base form's defensive profile. Like, maybe every now and then it'll be able to exploit the immunity, but right now this doesn't feel strong enough.

Magic Bounce sounds fantastic on paper; reflecting status ailment moves and preventing hazards from going up are both things that help each form accomplish their goal. However, the discussion has largely surrounded hazard bouncing, and CAP36 honestly has a horrible typing for that. Gliscor, Arghonaut, Garganacl, Ting-Lu, Great Tusk (sometimes), Samurott-Hisui, and Landorus-Therian are all hazard setters ranked at least A-. Ideally, a Magic Bounce user would predict when hazards are about to be set, come in, then force the other mon out. The thing is literally all of them can see us coming, click what in all but two cases is a quad-effective move (and the Water-types are still SE obviously), and severely cripple or wipe CAP36 from play entirely. While having Ice moves, even non-STAB, scares a couple of them (Gliscor and Lando-T in particular), the rest basically have nothing to fear from CAP36a. The below calcs assume 150 Special Attack on 36a, something we obviously will not be doing; even at this absurd level, 36a only has a coin toss chance to OHKO defensive Great Tusk with Ice Beam (which we may not even have room for if we are running CAP Song/Fire STAB/Freeze Dry) and fails to OHKO anything else. Garganacl in particular flat-out doesn't care, since it's just a pure Rock. Remember, this is with 150 Special Attack. Odds are the base form will have nowhere near this level of power. The fact that even this amount of strength struggles to get the job done illustrates how fanciful the base form ever checking most hazard setters is, especially in any matchup where we are moving second.
252+ SpA Heatran Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Arghonaut: 180-214 (43.5 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 264-312 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 398-470 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Heatran Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 150-178 (29.1 - 34.6%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Now, you might be thinking, "Sunshine, we can scare them off with the cleaner form!" But the thing is; if we are already transformed and hazards aren't up yet, even if 36p can meaningfully threaten a number of the above, at that point they won't enter the field to set hazards to begin with. Even if 36a is faster than these mons and is able to transform after coming in, 36p will likely be fragile to the point where it won't be able to stomach a Ground move even when it's no longer a quad weakness. In short, the number of assumptions Magic Bounce would have us make about stats to fulfill its primary attraction point are so plentiful that trying to have CAP36 broadly check hazard setters is a fool's errand imo. If you just want to deal with status ailments, Purifying Salt (or even just Limber, which, lol) does the job better and does not lead us down an inescapable trap for how the mon is supposed to function. I just don't get it for this CAP, sorry.

Lastly, not gonna go in-depth since everyone's in agreement here: Levitate is a major mistake to consider. At that point, 36a would just drop CAP Song and be pure defense. It just makes Fire/Steel too potent a defensive typing to ever think of switching to 36p. Hard pass.
 
Showing support for Lightningrod, Purifying Salt, and Magic Bounce somewhat.
I've been going back and forth on Magic Bounce- while it does have issues against setters, I think this would overall probably a good thing. Its ability to block hazards works against some fringe mons like maybe Tinkaton (mold breaker is a thing, but would it switch over to that?), Clefable, Deoxys-S and Mollux. This isn't too oppressive and it doesnt have a strangehold on the hazard game, although it'll always keep the opposing team on edge when its in the back.
Magic Bounce also has some other interesting interactions- it stops Kitsunoh from recovering with Strength Sap and potentially burns it back (same with Dragapult), does a great job at messing with Glowking's pivoting by paralyzing it, and messes with Pecharunt/Malaconda's pivoting moves.
One positive thing about Magic Bounce is it really plays into that "extra moveslot" feeling; you're able to cripple or set hazards without it being a part of your set, and with great tempo as you'll do it on switchin, catching mons that would like to just switch out and avoid being crippled. An AV or 4-attacks set can provide some kind of utility to the team in a meaningful way that few other abilities offer. We'd probably want to avoid allowing a sash+hazards suicide lead scenario, since this wouldn't use Relic Song, so that'd be something to watch out for. I'm not 100% on this one, but tentatively supporting it.


Ive probably ragged on No Guard enough on Discord, but I'll paraphrase here so its documented: mon can barely switch in on anything without some defensive help from an ability, especially since its been highly suggested that its got no defensive EVs or recovery. And the issue isn't powerful neutral hits that'll be absorbed by sky-high defensive stats, its that 70% of ranked mons hit it super-effectively. Inferno-ing something once you're already in isn't helping it be defined as a defensive mon either- its honestly more aligned with wallbreakers like Entei than defensive mons like Ho-oh/Kitsunoh who have an incredible defensive typing and ability to lean on. So unless the mon gets more switchin chances from the ability, I think it will probably fail the concept, regardless of how powerful or fun the end result is.
 
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I want to talk for a second about ability power level.

Because we have more or less complete freedom in designing this mon, an ability's superficial power level or raw utility isn't a helpful metric. Ice Scales or Huge Power have an extremely high power level, but for the purposes of the CAP process, they do absolutely nothing, because their effect can be fully replicated with stats. They kinda just cost you your ability slot. Fluffy has a high power level, but when you think of it solely as distinguishing contact moves from non-contact (basically giving yourself an achilles' heel in addition to the fire weakness) rather than as a defense boost, it's less lucrative. By the same token, abilities with a low superficial power level can have the most meaningful impact on a mon's build coming together, if they target specific issues that build faces.

So as far as I'm concerned for CAP36, issues like "we need to make sure we hit hard enough when transformed" are actually very low on the list of concerns, because hitting hard enough is an an issue that can be fully fixed with stats. If we decide we need the transformation to have a 200 base SpAtk stat to reach necessary damage ranges (I do not expect this to be the case when this entire thing is built around wearing things down early game to clean later), we can do that. But there are issues that can't be easily fixed with stats or movepool. One of them is the fact that, of the few things we'd like to switch in on, most of them sometimes carry Thunder Wave. Literally no matter how high the transformation form's speed is, this move is completely crippling to our build. Another is that we have crippling weaknesses to types that are almost ubiquitous in the metagame. This is difficult to overcome with stats alone.

Our goal here is not only to make a successful mon, it's also to fulfill the concept, and a significant aspect of the concept is that the base form is a primarily defensive mon. Even if we are trying to make a tank (which is already arguably stretching the concept), a tank has to regularly tank hits and has to switch in, probably repeatedly. When you have bad matchups against almost the entire metagame, it's difficult to do that. If we create a mon that always needs to come in on a slow pivot or a free switch, we've almost certainly failed the concept.

All this to say, when you're evaluating an ability like Lightningrod or Purifying Salt, their raw utility may seem somewhat low for this process (I know these are very good abilities in general). They don't give you high powered STABs. They don't give you moveslot compression. They do relatively little for the transformation form in general. But we have maybe 3 safe switch-ins currently, and if we increase that to 7 or 8, and we create situations where we feel more comfortable staying in, that's actually really significant for making our build work. Don't just look at power level, look at what problems can't be easily solved in later stages. So I'd honestly support any of these. I like Storm Drain too. Walls Chuggalong and gives you a few other nice opportunities to switch in and sit on certain mons. I think Magic Bounce is workable too, although it carries some risks (edit: after thinking about it more I actually really like Magic Bounce here). Regenerator along with good bulk allows you to at least come in / stay in on neutral matchups with relative safety and regain health for later, so it indirectly helps the aforementioned problems.

There are other real problems that the mon faces. Like limited moveslots, which No Guard for example is trying to solve. But we have an absurd offensive typing with incredible 2-move coverage, so I very much feel like this is lower on the list of concerns. No Guard can sometimes also help you stay in once you're on the field, which is not irrelevant. Still though, I do feel that switching in is our biggest problem right now.
 
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Preliminary slate time!

No Guard
Lightning Rod
Purifying Salt
Storm Drain
Regenerator

The preliminary slate plus Berserk, Magic Bounce, and Levitate are the Abilities that I think merit the most discussion for the next few days (though I am open, as always, to all pitches, suggestions, etc). If anyone has strong feelings for the in/exclusion of any given Ability, voice them now! I'll be setting the timeline for final slate for 2-3 days from now, and I will be putting up a heads up exactly 24 hours before it goes up. See you all then.
 
Magic Bounce should be on the slate in place of Purifying Salt.

To be clear, Magic Bounce is perhaps the most defining ability this Pokemon could get. It would determine a lot about the mon by itself. It's up to y'all if you think that is good or bad, but the benefits of Magic Bounce for CAP 36 are clear. Magic Bounce is a supremely powerful ability, often causing otherwise lower tier Pokemon to see use in OU (SS Espeon, SV Hatterene, BW Xatu all come to mind). Magic Bounce would give CAP 36 an immediate defensive niche, a real reason to use it as a defensive Pokemon, which is something it seems to need currently. There is even a clearish path to success when looking at Mega Diancie for what Magic Bounce would do for the offensive forme. I think there is merited worry that a Magic Bounce CAP 36 will prefer sticking to the defensive forme, but I do believe this is fixable in the future stages.

Purifying Salt, on the other hand, I believe is much worse than the other abilities targeted at preventing Paralysis. Whereas Lightning Rod gives CAP 36 a few additional positive defensive matchups like Raging Bolt and Zapdos, Purifying Salt really focuses on matchups that CAP 36 should already be favored in (Gholdengo and Dragapult) while only adding Kitsunoh as a potential added defensive matchup. Ultimately, I don't think the Ghost-resistance provided by Purifying Salt makes it different enough, or better than, Lightning Rod, and so it should not make slate in favor of Magic Bounce, which does do something different. Also, and while this isn't really a great point against it, it just feels wrong to me to give a Pokemon that's already immune to 2 statuses Purifying Salt, it just seems wasteful. I’d really argue for Limber to be included over it as well.

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I also think Regenerator borders on anti-concept lines. People's main issue with Levitate was that if you have a defensive Fire/Steel with Levitate, you are incentivized to never switch formes. I think that's a fair worry, but I also think Regenerator would be a much more likely cause of that happening. If you have a good defensive mon with Regenerator, I think you'd really just want to focus on being the Regenerator mon. It so heavily emphasizes staying in the defensive forme that I think Regenerator CAP 36 would very likely drop Song in most cases.
 
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Going to argue against Storm Drain and Regenerator's inclusion in the slate.

Regenerator is a bad fit because of the playstyle it encourages. I assume this is a measure taken by people as part of fearmongering that with the limited moveslots, regen can help give the pokémon longevity, the longevity it provides its not the one we should be looking for. Regenerator mons are often relegated as defensive backbones of their teams and while that would really be good for a purely defensive mon, but it brings a baggage of problems when we want to have chances to sweep later in the game. Regenerator mons take maximum advantage of their ability when absorbing status or item removal attempts for its teammates, stuff that our CAP absolutely hates when trying to setup a win for itself in the later game. The alternative to this style of play is letting 36 switch as little as possible in the field to prevent itself from taking the status or the item removal, which goes entirely against the point of having regenerator on it.

As an alternative, I would argue for the inclusion of one of Natural Cure or Shed Skin. Both abilities helping us heal status can makes not only a very useful member of the team that can absorb it for our teammates, but also keep switching in without the fear of a para interrupting our sweep.

Storm Drain I would argue against for very different reasons, no more so that it would likely make the CAP compete with Mollux, a position it is entirely on the losing side of. When pitting the potential Water inmune fires, we can see that despite their similar defensive profiles, Fire Poison severly outpowers Fire Steel in the offensive and defensive departments. Defensively, the fighting weakness means that unlike Mollux, 36 would lose against the likes of Zamazenta, Arghonaut and Iron Valiant, two very powerful pokémon that mollux can check pretty well, and can be very annoyed at the instances of fight coverage from the likes of Gholdengo, Darkrai or Venomicon. Offensive Fire Steel and Fire Poison hit about the same targets, but Mollux can actually comfortably force out more key threats like the S-tier Creseidon. Of course, there's a couple of better matchups it has such as the Chuggalong matchup, but in general the few it has aren't truly relevant in the current meta. Storm Drain is a valid but ultimately misguided attempt at fixing one of 36's typing weaknesses as it doesn't really synergize well with its typing, whereas the likes of Lightning Rod can do a way more efficient job at giving 36 more ways to come into the field due ot how it synergises with its typing.

Magic Bounce should 100% be on the slate alongside Lightning Rod and No Guard, its a very good ability that keeps us healthy while helping us make progress and provide for the team. Purifying Salt is iffy and while its a bit too much (before mentioned status abilities + Limber would also do the trick) but I think its fair to include.
 
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I suggested it first in the thread so you already know I'm biased in favor of Magic Bounce being added to the slate. Beyond what I said in my initial post and what others have said, I feel like it has the most clearly defined utility for CAP for both the defensive and offensive form. Freeing up moveslots we might have otherwise dedicated to moves like Rapid Spin, Hazards, or even anti-Status moves like Substitute is also a clear plus to me because it prevents us from constraining ourselves into a Ice Move / Relic Song / Utility Move / Utility Move move-set to and allows us way more room to run powerful fire coverage alongside the relic song or even type coverage to facilitate the incoming sweep once we decide to switch forms. I also find CAP not being able to consistently switch into good hazard setters to be a plus, because being able to comfortably switch and stay in on Spikers or SR setters would not be conducive to a healthy meta. Would definitely slot it over Regenerator among the available options.

I know I said in my earlier post that I supported Levitate, but now I don't since I got more time to think about it for all the reasons mentioned above. For those same reasons, I oppose Regenerator because a Regenerator Steel Type would almost certainly be incentivized to bulk up as much as possible and act as a defensive Stalwart.

Also low-key unconvinced by Purifying Salt. I feel giving the CAP Purifying Salt wouldn't do justice to the excellent typing the CAP already has since we're immune to burn and poison in defensive form anyway and also wouldn't do justice to the inherent strength of Purifying Salt either. The added ghost resist seems a bit overkill too since we already matchup well into them anyways, and we just spent an entire process on a defensive mon whose whole purpose is to deny Ghost Types their dues. To me, Purifying Salt kind of tunnel visions too much on Paralysis as an issue for CAP and doesn't consider the other issues inherent to the process that we should spend our ability slot fixing up. I would much rather us spend our ability on either granting us collectively more firepower (No Guard) or giving us more utility against a wider array of mons (Magic Bounce) in addition to being immune to T-Wave than have us spend a slot solely for shoring up paralysis. Still think it should be slotted if only because of the popular support for it though.

EDIT: Forgot to mention for Magic Bounce but one of the key draws for Fire/Ice as an offensive typing is that it can possibly grant us stab Freeze-Dry. However, between fire-type Relic Song and Freeze Dry, we would lack powerful stab moves which might make us too weak to consistently clean up teams so the added utility of Magic Bounce also would make it easier to slot in Freeze-Dry alongside more powerful moves as per the reasons above.
 
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Going to echo the above posts and argue in favor of Magic Bounce over Purifying Salt. dex pretty much said it best so I’ll just keep it simple here: Magic Bounce provides us a near-permanent niche while Purifying Salt overcorrects a weakness and excessively targets Mons we already match up mostly favorably into (e.g., Ghold, Pult, Kit, etc.). While Magic Bounce can’t deflect passive status like those from secondary effects, I find it to be the vastly superior option between the two for the clearly defined benefits it presents, particularly the long-lasting metagame relevance it could provide.

I’m also pretty lukewarm on Regenerator for mostly the same reasons others have offered. I worry about the bias it would create towards the defensive form, incentivizing 36a to be used as a defensive pivot only, never changing formes into 36b. While it would help with our longevity, I don’t think this should come at the cost of potentially giving people a very good reason to never use our Relic clone.

Storm Drain is one that I really just don’t see the point for. I’m already not the hugest fan of Lightning Rod, but even that has the potential benefit of making our cleaning role easier to fulfill with optimal positioning. Of the two, I think Lightning Rod is a far more interesting option. I don’t care for the ability, but I think it deserves to be slated more than Storm Drain.

To address the proposed additions of Shed Skin/Natural Cure — I think we’d be better off just leaving them off the slate, personally. While either ability certainly can help to alleviate our status worries, I don’t think they do this job in a way that is at all more alluring than something like Magic Bounce. To slate these would be redundant, in my opinion.

The rest of the slate looks good!
 
Magic Bounce has grown on me a little but I’m still pretty hesitant. The elephant in the room is how the ability affects the hazard game. Initially, I was really skeptical due to this, something powerful enough to give otherwise-horrible Pokemon like Xatu and Espeon a real niche at the highest level of play. These Pokemon are not used for anything other than the simple fact that they can deny hazards once or twice; all other aspects of their identity or design fade into the background as secondary qualities. Magic Bounce will always be what defines these Pokemon and dictates their use, regardless of their other traits. Even with Hatterene, a much more viable, interesting, and versatile Pokemon compared to other bouncers, this is still mostly true—like, even if you’re running it as a CM sweeper on HO, Magic Bounce is still why you’re using it instead of any other CM mon.

I think I’m fine with the hazard thing now. CAP36 has a pretty bad matchup into most of the best setters, even with Balloon. This is definitely for the best. It can create some annoying “50/50s”—and sure, hazards will always be a harder click if 36 is still alive—but there’s a lot of risk involved for both sides, which is not true in interactions like EButton Hatt vs most setters. I put “50/50s” in air quotes because, in most CAP36 vs hazard setter matchups, both players have to make a calculated choice on how much they’re willing to lose or gain—comparable to some spinblocking interactions with Great Tusk, for example—and I think these weighted risks are not pure coinflips but can actually lead to more dynamic games and opportunities for skill expression.

I think where stuff gets a lot dumber is where risk/reward is totally skewed to one player’s side. Something like Kitsunoh spinblocking Libra, where it can do so infinitely and with little to no risk. While this isn’t true when it comes to CAP36 and the hazard game, I think it IS true with a lot of other matchups. Dragapult and Kitsunoh can realistically never click Wisp as long as CAP36 is alive. Slowking-G, Clefable, Malaconda, and (standard) Tinkaton can never click Thunder Wave/Glare. Most of these Pokemon are totally neutered in their ability to make progress beyond Knock Off or U-turn while CAP36 is chilling in the back. I think this really sucks. Even Pokemon with decent-to-good matchups into 36 like Cresceidon and NP Wisp Darkrai have to REALLY think twice before throwing out a status move. Maybe on a fairly uncommon high-B/low-A tier Pokemon like Hatterene, the warping effects of Magic Bounce are acceptable, but I feel like we’re aiming a lot higher than that.

The playstyle that Magic Bounce seems to imply also feels like a poor fit for us. The ceiling on how much value you can get out of this ability is sky high, but you need to play aggressively, take risks, and put your HP on the line to get that value. Maybe we switch in and catch a Spike—or maybe we catch a Ruination, Circle Throw, or Body Press instead. And now the cleaner form can’t do its job so well. In this sense, Magic Bounce introduces a conflict of interest. Also—while we don’t build for the future, we only focus on the knowable, etc, CAP36 probably won’t always have a losing relationship to the best hazard setters. Metas change. I mean, imagine Magic Bounce Heatran just one generation ago in SS. Holy shit man.

I think Magic Bounce inarguably checks a ton of boxes for what we want to accomplish, but it does so at a pretty steep cost to metagame health. Or, to be less absolutist, it has a decent chance of doing so. So while Magic Bounce could be a good option for us, I think other abilities on the prelim slate are good options. I’m okay with leaving it off.
 
Long post incoming. As a quick overview, my current preference for slate, in no particular order, is the following:

Lightning Rod
Magic Bounce
No Guard
Purifying Salt
Regenerator

In the interest of sparing eyeballs from a monolith of text, more detailed thoughts on each mentioned ability is spoilered below. Overall there are four pain points with CAP36 as currently understood that can be addressed with ability: mediocre defensive profile, restricted move set, vulnerability to paralysis, and limited offensive pressure. Hopefully these are relatively self-evident. The pros, cons, and implications of each ability is included. Feel free to not only disagree but point out any flaws in reasoning. Anyhow, without further ado...
Berserk is perhaps the most volatile option on the table.

It naturally plays into the fantasy of flipping roles mid-match. The SpA boost it provides will help boost CAP36's offensive pressure where high stats alone can't. The obvious problem, then, is that CAP36 has no reliable control of its activation. While tailored stats and/or moves may alleviate the issue, there's not getting around the fact that it will place CAP36 in the awkward position of wanting to transform in sub-optimal conditions. That's dangerously close to being anti-concept.
Levitate is an incredibly potent defensive ability; it's also anti-concept.

An immunity to one of the most prevalent attacking types is invaluable. That it also happens to remove the biggest weakness of CAP36's base form makes it even more-so. And that's to say nothing of the added immunity to all but one entry hazards. Unfortunately, its simply too strong here. Short of severely restricting the movepool, it all but assures CAP36 drops CAP Song and becomes a defensive menace in its base form.
Lightning Rod is straightforward, if a bit conditional.

Foremost, it is an effective immunity to paralysis. Combined with its base form's typing, CAP36 would be effectively immune to the three most common statuses in its defensive form. Meanwhile, it removes one of the potential hurdles -- the speed drop and missed turns of paralysis -- to its offensive form. Secondly, it expands CAP36's pool of positive match-ups by a few, albeit lower viability, Pokemon. That may not sound like much, but CAP36 already lack many meaningful defensive match-ups; any improvement is noteworthy. Finally, it provides some means of stat boosting to CAP36. Though unlike Berserk, CAP36 would have some control over its activation with proper positioning.
Magic Bounce provides unparalleled utility in a unconventional way.

It is unique in that it single-handedly provides all necessary defensive utility for CAP36. It expands the pool of positive match-ups. It provides full immunity to all status moves, and effectively most status effects. It's immediate and unique in the meta. The threat of Magic Bounce from the bench alone exerts tremendous control over a match. It even plays into CAP36's want as cleaner to stick around as long as possible. So what's the problem? It potentially misses the point of the process. What reason is there to ever stay in the defensive form, or stay in at all until the very endgame? Magic Bounce works all the same.
No Guard is worth consideration for its novelty, though should be treated carefully.

On its own, its a niche option, solely targeted at making the most of CAP36's restricted move set. It takes unique advantage of CAP36's offensive STAB to leverage powerful and normally inaccurate moves. This immediately raises CAP36's offensive pressure while compressing move sets with equally strong secondary effects. However there's concern is too leans too much into the offensive form to the detriment of the defensive base. It does not bolster the defensive profile, and, in some cases (i.e Focus Blast), makes it much worse. It's also unclear how well CAP36 can leverage even guaranteed burns defensively. With it CAP36 may sooner end up a wallbreaker and sweeper before a defensive Pokemon.
Purifying Salt is an undeniably strong defensive ability; CAP36 is an imperfect user.

It is functionally similar to Lightning Rod; there are, however, small distinctions between the two. Purifying Salt extends the latter's effective paralysis immunity to a full immunity and tacks on all other status effects. That's obviously valuable to any Pokemon, but CAP36's mixed typing already provides immunity to burn and, conditionally, poison and freeze.
The other noteworthy distinction is Purifying Salt's added Ghost resist. This too augments CAP36's pool of positive match-ups. But while it targets more common Pokemon, it is strictly fewer. Its doubling down on the few existing match-ups rather than adding new ones.
Regenerator is a offensive defensive option with big pitfalls.

It provides meaningful defensive utility in healing CAP36 without requiring a move. It also plays directly into the in and out switching playstyle that the concept suggests. Unfortunately, it's best utilized by purely defensive Pokemon. However, it's been successful before on more mixed or tilted offensive Pokemon before. There's room to explore here if we are careful not lean on it too much. At its best, it makes CAP36 a Pokemon ok with being a little aggressive, a little risky, trading blow for blow, knowing it can always recoup some health if it can just make it out alive.
Storm Drain is a well-trodden path but for good reason.

It's been shown on previous CAPs to be successful in carving out a defensive niche. Most akin to Lightning Rod for obvious reasons -- defensive immunity and stat boosting -- where it meaningful distinguishes itself in that it trades a status immunity for a large pool of positive match-ups. Better yet, the Pokemon it targets are exactly the kind of bulky and hard-to-nail Pokemon that CAP36 will need to wear down if it wants to be successful. The biggest hurdle for it is that the most prevalent defensive Water-type easily shrugs it off, threatening CAP36 all the same.
 
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