CAP 34 - Part 4 - Primary Ability Discussion

[spoo]

CAP 34 So Far

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Please pay very close attention to kenn's posts during this thread and remain on topic. DO NOT begin by posting massive lists of abilities!

Some general rules for this discussion:

• Custom abilities are banned. No exceptions. Posts suggesting custom abilities will be deleted.
• There are ability banlists for the different stages of ability discussion. Posts suggesting banned abilities will be deleted.
• Flavor abilities do not have any place in this thread. Do not bring up flavor reasoning. Posts that rely on flavor reasoning will be deleted.

The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Fully Banned Abilities group

Arena Trap
As One
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Battle Bond
Beads Of Ruin
Beast Boost *
Chilling Neigh
Commander
Dark Aura
Dauntless Shield
Delta Stream
Desolate Land
Disguise
Dragon's Maw
Fairy Aura
Flower Gift
Forecast
Full Metal Body
Grim Neigh
Gulp Missile
Hadron Engine
Hunger Switch
Ice Face
Illusion
Imposter
Intrepid Sword
Moody
Multitype
Neuroforce
Orichalcum Pulse
Power Construct
Primordial Sea
Prism Armor
Protosynthesis *
Quark Drive *
RKS System
Schooling
Shadow Shield
Shadow Tag
Shields Down
Soul Heart
Stance Change
Sword Of Ruin
Tablets Of Ruin
Teravolt
Transistor
Turboblaze
Unseen Fist
Vessel Of Ruin
Victory Star
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode
Zero To Hero

* These abilities will only be unbanned on a concept which is based around this ability - Such as an Ultra Beast or Paradox Pokemon

Soft Banned Abilities group

These abilities are banned by default and should not be discussed barring exceptional cases. If you believe one of these abilities should be considered, you can make a post trying to explain why an exception is warranted in this specific case and if both the TL and Ability Leader agree, it will be allowed. If the TLT disagrees with the unbanning proposal, they should be considered fully banned and should not be further discussed.

Bulletproof
Color Change*
Defeatist
Dry Skin
Earth Eater
Flash Fire
Fur Coat
Good As Gold
Gorilla Tactics
Huge Power
Ice Scales
Libero*
Levitate
Lightning Rod
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Magnet Pull
Mimicry*
Motor Drive
Parental Bond
Protean*
Pure Power
Purifying Salt
Regenerator
Sap Sipper
Slow Start
Stall
Storm Drain
Truant
Volt Absorb
Water Absorb
Water Bubble
Well Baked Body
Wind Rider

*These abilities can only be considered for an unban if the Ability stage is done before typing.

Secondary Ability ban group

Comatose
Drizzle
Drought
Electric Surge
Fluffy
Grassy Surge
Innards Out
Misty Surge
Prankster
Psychic Surge
Sand Stream
Snow Warning
Speed Boost
Stamina
Steam Engine
Supreme Overlord
Toxic Debris
Triage

Flavor ability only ban group

Ball Fetch
Battery
Costar
Friend Guard
Healer
Honey Gather
Illuminate
Pickup
Power Spot
Power of Alchemy
Propeller Tail
Receiver
Run Away
Stalwart
Symbiosis
Telepathy

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Primary Ability banlist

Fully Banned Abilities group + Soft Banned Abilities group + flavor ability-only group

Secondary Ability banlist

Fully Banned Abilities group + Soft Banned Abilities group + secondary ability group + flavor ability-only group

Flavor Ability banlist

Primary ability group + secondary ability group

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I'll now hand this over to kenn to make the first post in the thread. Please have a good discussion.

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Ability banlist PRC threads:

• US/UM: http://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/7391668
• SW/SH: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3659245/
• S/V: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3715273/

 

[kenn]

Hey guys! I am back again for another process as your ability leader! Now that we have determined what threats CAP 34 will have to interact with, it is time to dive into CAP 34's ability! But before we go suggesting specific abilities, I have a few questions to help get the discussion started, so let's get to it!

1. What are some ways we can help accentuate the "one and done" nature of using Throat Spray? How do we want to facilitate a sweep for CAP 34? Is it more impactful for CAP 34's ability to ease set up or make it offensively stronger? Or would making it harder to revenge kill be the ideal route?

2. How do the defining moves we have affect the choice in ability for CAP 34? Are we confined to STABs specifically or is coverage gonna be a better option here to enable CAP 34's sweep? Do we wanna enable said STAB and/or coverage through our ability?

3. Now that we know CAP 34 is gonna be Poison/Dragon, how does this affect the potential abilities that CAP 34 may want/need? Does typing have a huge impact on CAP 34's potential abilities or no? Why?

I am gonna have discussion open for these particular questions for the next 48 hours.

 

[Anchor9]

1. An ability that encourages losing an item could be useful. I think because of our defining moves easing setup

2. Since one on the defining moves is Clangorous Soul, I think an ability that eases setup is probably best. We definitely need coverage to complete a sweep and not easily be forced out.

3. Typing does have a huge impact. Due to the typing resisting Grass and Fighting and being neutral to Fairy, an ability that makes us harder to revenge kill by, say, stopping priority, is unnecessary. Ice priority is rare and Dark and Electric priority can be worked around with a Sub.

 

[Amamama]

Now that we know CAP 34 is gonna be Poison/Dragon, how does this affect the potential abilities that CAP 34 may want/need? Does typing have a huge impact on CAP 34's potential abilities or no? Why?

Gonna answer this backwards:
The typing has less impact on ability than the activation we chose for throat spray. I am of the opinion, that for Throat Spray to be the main item, it needs to be incentivized through further boosts, than can be activated in conjunction or addition with or to the item.
Clangorous Soul affords us with a wider field of options, thanks to the boost it provides.
Other activation methods like STAB Clanging Scales or Sound Attack Coverage would need a heavy incentive through ability to make Throat Spray the preferred item.
If the ability doesn’t immediately incentivize throat Spray and if we assume that spray will remain the only boosting option this Mon has access to to not detract from it, the only abilities I can see working are those that immediately facilitate a sweep alongside the item boost, similar to how Iron Moth utilizes Booster energy and Fiery Dance or how Nihilego uses Meteor Beam.
Speaking of which:
There have been mentions of Meteor Beam Sweepers as a point of comparison.
I don’t think we actually can compare Meteor Beam to Clanging Scales or Sound Coverage.
The reason is Meteor Beam is only usable with White Herb really, whereas Clanging Scales can still be used with any other item and be reliable.
That to me means, any route, which doesn’t either involve Clangorous Soul or an ability that immediately facilitates a sweep by further boosting relevant stats, will likely disincentivize the use of Throat Spray.

2. How do the defining moves we have affect the choice in ability for CAP 34? Are we confined to STABs specifically or is coverage gonna be a better option here to enable CAP 34's sweep? Do we wanna enable said STAB and/or coverage through our ability?

Given how strong Clanging Scales is there’s no way around it unless we use Clangorous Soul. There’s no harm though in adding other options, though I don’t think trying to boost those with ability does much for this CAP.

1. What are some ways we can help accentuate the "one and done" nature of using Throat Spray? How do we want to facilitate a sweep for CAP 34? Is it more impactful for CAP 34's ability to ease set up or make it offensively stronger? Or would making it harder to revenge kill be the ideal route?

Abilities that directly interact with the consumable item are obviously going to be best though there aren’t many that do that. If we don’t go for Clang Soul abilities that directly improve sweeping capabilities through further boosting stats, are more likely to be used with Throat Spray if the plus one boost is needed to make that sweep work.
If we go for Clangorous Soul I think wou can argue for both defensive and offensive abilities and abilities that make it harder to be Rkilled

 

[Anchor9]

What do you mean?

Hold specific abilities later until we determine what kind of abilities CAP 34 needs. Like if Kenn determined CAP 34 needed to have an easier setup opportunity which then is determined to be best as an immunity. Then you could mention something like Leviate or Earth Eater, which both are soft-banned anyway.

 

[mark6870]

1. What are some ways we can help accentuate the "one and done" nature of using Throat Spray? How do we want to facilitate a sweep for CAP 34? Is it more impactful for CAP 34's ability to ease set up or make it offensively stronger? Or would making it harder to revenge kill be the ideal route?

2. How do the defining moves we have affect the choice in ability for CAP 34? Are we confined to STABs specifically or is coverage gonna be a better option here to enable CAP 34's sweep? Do we wanna enable said STAB and/or coverage through our ability?

3. Now that we know CAP 34 is gonna be Poison/Dragon, how does this affect the potential abilities that CAP 34 may want/need? Does typing have a huge impact on CAP 34's potential abilities or no? Why?

1. Not gonna break new ground by saying this, but Abilities that directly synergize with Throat Spray accentuate Throat Spray's nature. Unburden and Simple have been discussed to death in the discord and for good reason: they directly boost our offensive prowess while also incentivizing Throat Spray.

2. We should figure out whether we want a Clangorous Soul before we choose our ability. Certain abilities are overkill with Clanging Soul directly synergize with non-soul builds. Certain coverage moves open the possibility of "extra stab" abilities, such as Sparkling Aria and Water Bubble, which is definitely a more niche option.

3. Our typing hits a lot neutrally, but struggles to find a lot of super effective hits. Additionally, our STABs are pretty detrimental to lock into, meaning a power boosting item like Specs isn't necessarily something CAP34 wants. This opens up abilities like Adaptability or Punk Rock that directly boost our moves may be an option we want.

 

[Earthflax]

1. What are some ways we can help accentuate the "one and done" nature of using Throat Spray? How do we want to facilitate a sweep for CAP 34? Is it more impactful for CAP 34's ability to ease set up or make it offensively stronger? Or would making it harder to revenge kill be the ideal route?

2. How do the defining moves we have affect the choice in ability for CAP 34? Are we confined to STABs specifically or is coverage gonna be a better option here to enable CAP 34's sweep? Do we wanna enable said STAB and/or coverage through our ability?

3. Now that we know CAP 34 is gonna be Poison/Dragon, how does this affect the potential abilities that CAP 34 may want/need? Does typing have a huge impact on CAP 34's potential abilities or no? Why?

I am gonna have discussion open for these particular questions for the next 48 hours.

mark stole everything i was gonna say

We need to figure out whether we will use Clangorous Soul or if we will not. This will dictate the ability discussion which is instrumental to the movepool and stats discussion. Ultimately, deciding whether or not this move will be a feature in 34 is crucial to being able to accurately shape 34 as it is.

I will break with Mark and say that I think pseudo-STAB is probably not the way to go here, as we have plenty of room to optimize our typing offensively as opposed to trying to bypass it.

I have a lot more to say but first I want to see what the broader consensus is on the goal and direction of this discussion. Cheers!

Mod Edit: Removing specific ability mentions

 

[Agile Turtle]

1. What are some ways we can help accentuate the "one and done" nature of using Throat Spray? How do we want to facilitate a sweep for CAP 34? Is it more impactful for CAP 34's ability to ease set up or make it offensively stronger? Or would making it harder to revenge kill be the ideal route?

Abilities that synergize with Throat Spray activation or generally aid in lategame cleaning capabilities are of course very beneficial to the CAP. I do think it might be important to clarify the direction we want to go in regards to clangorous so or not. Some abilities can go either way, a few really can't.

2. How do the defining moves we have affect the choice in ability for CAP 34? Are we confined to STABs specifically or is coverage gonna be a better option here to enable CAP 34's sweep? Do we wanna enable said STAB and/or coverage through our ability?

Coverage is going to be important to not outright get walled by a large portion of the metagame, I don't think we need to address power through ability though.

3. Now that we know CAP 34 is gonna be Poison/Dragon, how does this affect the potential abilities that CAP 34 may want/need? Does typing have a huge impact on CAP 34's potential abilities or no? Why?

I think typing here has less to do with ability than movepool does tbh. We have a decent defensive profile for the CAP, setting up shouldn't be that difficult, but we still haven't decided *how* the CAP is setting up. I do think it beneficial to discuss how different abilities interact/aid in our hypothetical setup scenarios first, but the longer we put off deciding, the less focused each stage is.

 

[mark6870]

we not using torch song. it was denied as an option in defining moves. Having a spatk boost on command invalidates throat spray and using throat spray is the whole point of this cap

 

[quziel]

Moderator Post: Ability submissions are not open at this time as said in the opening post. I am going to be going through the thread and deleting any specific ability submissions, and deleting posts that consist entirely of ability submissions.

 

[Earthflax]

I'll expand a little bit on the thoughts I've shared on abilities. The way I see it, there are 3 main categories of abilities that are relevant here:

1. Directly synergistic abilities: Abilities which directly benefit off of specifically Throat Spray to a very deep degree. These abilities do best at realizing the concept in a way which discourages the use of other items. The main issue is perhaps the limited quantity and scope of these abilities; they could prove underwhelming and there aren't many to choose from.
2. "Strong" non-synergistic abilities: Abilities which do not necessarily synergize with Spray but provide important damage-boosting potential or similar effects which will boost the prowess of 34.
3. "Standard" non-synergistic abilities: Abilities which do not necessarily synergize with Spray, nor do they provide significant boosts to the power of 34, but instead provides a benefit in some niche which would facilitate 34's role.

While using a directly synergistic ability would effectively realize the concept and would certainly accentuate the nature of Spray, I think it's much more interesting to explore a non-synergistic ability while realizing the concept by way of movepool. The ability picked will need to toe the line between allowing some freedom in movepool while also not allowing Choice or other items as a equally or more viable set. As for moves and typing and how it ties into the ability, I don't believe they hold greater-than-normal influence in the selection of an ability. They should be kept in mind but realistically, especially with the typing that was chosen, are not and should not be restrictive. The main exception move wise is the presence of Clangorous Soul, which is, as I've stated before, a crucial clarification which needs to be made in order to advance the discussion productively.

 

[Project_Mars]

1. There are definitely some very obvious abilities that accentuate the "one and done" nature of using Throat Spray, especially with Clangorous Soul being looked at as a main way to activate it leading to you more or less wanting to lock it into place once it gets set up since you lose out on so much if it gets forced out afterwards. Although Clanging Scales it isn't as "all in" it still loses out on a good deal of power if it does get forced out after using the Spray. While most of said obvious abilities are ones that help it sweep better I honestly think that going the other way and looking at abilities that either help it stay in as long as possible or help it be able to pick the right moment to pull the trigger on the stat boosts might have more merit since +2 SpAtk is already going to allow it to hit pretty hard even with a more defensive ability. I'm not sure if making it harder to revenge kill would be overkill for this concept or not, so it might be better to ere on the side of caution and avoid that. Soul already gives it +1 Speed which would make outspeeding it more difficult.

Although I will admit that going that route would run the risk of making other items more attractive than Throat Spray, which is not ideal, although there are certain aspects that do help push it away from certain items. Namely the fact that Steel-types can wall Poison/Dragon very effectively means that Choice locking yourself into one of those moves becomes a lot riskier. Life Orb recoil would also cut into its survivability, since the two main moves we're looking at for Throat Spray activation come with defensive drawbacks. (Besides, if the idea of it just running Life Orb instead is too likely then there's a few ways to work around that)

2. The fact that Steel-Types can handle both of CAP 34's STABs quite well means it is going to really want coverage to help it sweep regardless if it is going for Soul or Scales. That said I don't think there's that many abilities that would enable said coverage (or it's STABs) so I don't think doing that would be of much use.

3. It being part-Poison does affect how valuable or useless a few abilities are due to the inherent traits of that typing. The fact that Poison/Dragon is a fairly neat defensive typing (and the fact that grounded Poison-types slurp up Toxic Spikes) means that it should have a lot of switch-in opportunities already means that any ability that helps with switching around would complement the typing well, should we want it to be able to swap in and seek good chances to go "all in" and pivot out if the conditions are bad or not. Although, again, that might just wind up encouraging non-Throat Spray item usage since anything that helps keep it alive longer would work just as well for those abilities as well.

 

[SHSP]

1. What are some ways we can help accentuate the "one and done" nature of using Throat Spray? How do we want to facilitate a sweep for CAP 34? Is it more impactful for CAP 34's ability to ease set up or make it offensively stronger? Or would making it harder to revenge kill be the ideal route?

The first way that comes to mind, and probably the most blunt, is directly impacting with the consumable item's nature. We tie a lot of the mon's strength to popping Throat Spray in another way than just the +1 boost, and we end up with a really direct way of really pushing us towards using the item. I definitely lean towards offensive abilities rather than defensive ones, or ones that even aid set up. Giving us ways to really leverage the boost is my preferred route, be it abilities that directly are tied to being consumed or abilities that incentivise staying on the field for longer.

2. How do the defining moves we have affect the choice in ability for CAP 34? Are we confined to STABs specifically or is coverage gonna be a better option here to enable CAP 34's sweep? Do we wanna enable said STAB and/or coverage through our ability?

Giving our moves more power via ability should absolutely be on the table, I think, STAB or otherwise. Its a dangerous tightrope to walk, though; too much and we turn the mon away from Throat Spray, too little and we run the risk of being generally ineffective. Its not my preferred route by any means, but it's absolutely something to consider, for reasons pointed out by others in the thread (powering up our actual ability to sweep through stronger coverage, for example). Soul is obviously the odd man out of the bunch, as that leaves our offensive moves more open than with another Defining Move, and I think it wants a general power boost the most as it requires less to incentivize Spray.

3. Now that we know CAP 34 is gonna be Poison/Dragon, how does this affect the potential abilities that CAP 34 may want/need? Does typing have a huge impact on CAP 34's potential abilities or no? Why?

I don't really see a huge correlation between typing and ability here. We probably want a little more offensive power from ability based off of the typing not being exceptional offensively, but I can't see this mattering more than its interplay with our item.

 

[shnowshner]

1. What are some ways we can help accentuate the "one and done" nature of using Throat Spray? How do we want to facilitate a sweep for CAP 34? Is it more impactful for CAP 34's ability to ease set up or make it offensively stronger? Or would making it harder to revenge kill be the ideal route?

More effective stats = more dangerous when trying to sweep and harder to be taken down in return. It's not flashy but its very effective, the more of an advantage we have over the opponent with damage, speed, and defense, the greater our odds of pulling off a successful sweep, or at the very least making the space needed for the rest of the team if we get cut short.

Having an easier time setting up doesn't feel as necessary, our typing and offensive bias already gives us good potential setup opportunities against some common Pokemon (Venomicon, Mollux, Skarmory, Wellspring, Rillaboom, Volcarona, Iron Moth, Cresceidon, Arghonaut [when 34 is last mon on our team], Zamazenta, Snaelstrom). We can improve or expand this list but it's honestly not a bad lineup and can definitely fluctuate in our favor as games progress. I find it critical that our Ability helps in either breaking through the Pokemon that come in after we set up, or limiting the amount of Pokemon that threaten to stop our sweep. There's more than just stat-related ways of doing this, but these are the most straightforward.

2. How do the defining moves we have affect the choice in ability for CAP 34? Are we confined to STABs specifically or is coverage gonna be a better option here to enable CAP 34's sweep? Do we wanna enable said STAB and/or coverage through our ability?

Sparkling Aria is a noteworthy option to give an edge, since its our best way around problematic matchups vs Equilibra, Heatran, and Ting-Lu — three mons we identified as major roadblocks for CAP 34. Having checks is important, but we won't be a very good sweeper if three pretty common Pokemon can stop us with relative ease.
Clanging Scales comes off as rather low on the interaction list, but it's not a bad move to work with thanks to having high power. The Defense drop is problematic unfortunately, as we can't use the truly epic Contrary to remedy this (banned + we want to use boosting so it's actively detrimental). I think abilities that can help us get around lowering our Defense is a nice enabler as the move becomes much less painful to commit to.
Clangerous Soul has a lot to play with, given its status as, status. There's a lot to look for here, either giving ourself a better boost, reducing the drawback of losing 33% on use, or helping us bypass common methods of denying sweepers (like phasing, Haze, Encore, Unaware, Multiscale). This move also encourages Throat Spray significantly more than the rest of our Defining Moves list, which likely opens the door to routes that'd be off the table otherwise.
Psychic Noise is a bit of a weirder option given our typing, we could definitely still find use for it depending on our direction and the benefit of blocking all healing moves has some practical applications and particular amusing meta interaction we can pursue. I don't think we need our Ability to play off this one as much as the three above, however, since it's not useful coverage and only would help us try to wear down troublesome Pokemon.

3. Now that we know CAP 34 is gonna be Poison/Dragon, how does this affect the potential abilities that CAP 34 may want/need? Does typing have a huge impact on CAP 34's potential abilities or no? Why?

Our typing is quite good defensively compared to other options, but I could still see us wanting to spec into immunities (typing or otherwise) to bolster our presence on the field. I don't particularly care for abilities which interact with our STABs given we'd mostly be using Dragon moves and only care for Poison vs Fairy-types. It's something we can leverage our Ability choice with but there's plenty of viable options that really don't care what typing we are.

 

[a fairy]

1. What are some ways we can help accentuate the "one and done" nature of using Throat Spray? How do we want to facilitate a sweep for CAP 34? Is it more impactful for CAP 34's ability to ease set up or make it offensively stronger? Or would making it harder to revenge kill be the ideal route?

I think that the Throat Spray aspect of CAP34 is going to be a very skill-focused part of it, knowing when to activate it and the threats on the opposing team that would stuff its attempt to set up and get going. I don't think we should be easing set-up, as the "ease of set up" is not the challenge here, it's ensuring that when we do set up, it's not immediately stuffed by the next thing that comes out. Making setup easier would only serve to make CAP34 difficult to use, I suspect. Making it harder to revenge kill is interesting, as depending on how that was explored it could simplify the flowchart on Team Preview - a few less things to worry about weakening or removing before CAP34 can make its play.

2. How do the defining moves we have affect the choice in ability for CAP 34? Are we confined to STABs specifically or is coverage gonna be a better option here to enable CAP 34's sweep? Do we wanna enable said STAB and/or coverage through our ability?

I think coverage is very important. Dragon and Poison are good offensive types, but each gets blanked by a common type (Fairy and Steel, the latter of which resists the other as well!) and neither are super-effective against many types. That's not to say they're useless for a sweep, but I think if we're picking between boosting our STABs or enabling coverage, I'd rather our ability invest in enabling our coverage. Our STABs get blanked by good types, in a metagame where every 'mon can press a button and become a different type. We need to be sure that our coverage can prevent CAP34's failure, and if the ability is chosen to help with that, it should be focused more on coverage.

3. Now that we know CAP 34 is gonna be Poison/Dragon, how does this affect the potential abilities that CAP 34 may want/need? Does typing have a huge impact on CAP 34's potential abilities or no? Why?

Poison/Dragon is a decently good defensive option, which makes me think we might be able to tap into the ability to provide some more offensive option. Folks mentioned during the threat assessment that our typing doesn't give us much SE hits on many common 'mons out there in the metagame, so perhaps an ability that provides us more ability to sweep? Maybe opening up more opportunities to activate Throat Spray? Or by letting us not stop dead in our tracks if an unkind Tera activates, a defense drop proves too limiting, or similar "oh I misplayed and now my CAP34 is useless"

 

[kenn]

I am loving the discussion so far as y'all had some fantastic answers. At this time I am gonna be opening up ability suggestions! With that though comes the stipulation of keeping these next few questions in mind as sort of guidelines.

What are some specific abilities that can help CAP 34 set up?

What are some abilities that can help facilitate a sweep for CAP 34?

Are there any abilities that can be seen as more partial to whether or not we decide to utilize Clangorous Soul? If so, are those worth exploring over generically "good" offensive abilities?

I plan to have a slate up within about 72 hours so feel free to get your thoughts posted as soon as possible.

 

[chartung17]

Unburden could be good (depending on our speed and whether we have Clangorous Soul), as it gives us more speed for sweeping and gives us more incentive to use Throat Spray over Specs. I also think Armor Tail would be good so that priority can't stop our sweep.

 

[sun_dew]

What are some specific abilities that can help CAP 34 set up?

Personally, I think immunity abilities (namely Levitate and one of Dazzling/Armor Tail/Queenly Majesty) are huge for getting in and setting up. Being Poison/Dragon, one of our most common weaknesses is ground, so turning that weakness into a free switch or setup move with Levitate is huge. However, Dazzling lets us avoid priority revenge kills, which is similarly valuable. Neutral damage from Pixilate Espeed still packs a punch, and with the ubiquity of Hemo there is a lot of value to be gained from this immunity ability in particular.

One last ability focused on setup I'd like to mention is Simple. Throat spray giving us a +2 is huge, and it's a nice incentive to run the item. Other than that, not much more to say on simple.

What are some abilities that can help facilitate a sweep for CAP 34?

The first abilities that come to mind from this question are Unburden and Speed Boost. Unburden has fantastic synergy with throat spray, allowing us to not only boost our SpA but also our speed just by popping a sound move. Speed Boost is less tailored to this CAP in particular, but still a very solid option, allowing us to snowball rapidly once we're set up.

Are there any abilities that can be seen as more partial to whether or not we decide to utilize Clangorous Soul? If so, are those worth exploring over generically "good" offensive abilities?

Simple is the best example of an ability that wants Clang Soul, imo. A +2 omniboost and an additional +2 to SpA in a single turn is pretty absurd, and something that is certainly worth exploring over more generically good options. This may turn us off from using Clanging Scales, however, as a -2 to defense each time we click the move is far from ideal.

 

[Agile Turtle]

Unburden is one of the most effective ways to encourage the use of our favorite consumable. Should be mutually exclusive with clangsoul, but allows for 4 attacks unlike clangorous soul should we need the coverage. The ability to get +1 SpA and +2 Speed out of an attacking move is exciting to say the least.

Unburden and Clangorous Soul are easily our best tools to encourage throat spray, although that doesn't mean the mon *has* to have either.

 

[quziel]

One of the biggest problem that Speed Boost mons face is the need to balance setup, coverage, STABs, and Protect. Protect itself is a huge benefit, letting you effectively have +1 speed from the get-go, instead of spending that first turn helpless vs a Dragapult that's about to click Draco in your face. However, 4MSS is a very well known disease, and we can look at examples of mons like Blaziken, which has to make the very difficult choice between running very vital coverage, for example Knock Off to actually beat Pult without significant prior chip, and Protect, to get its speed earlier.

Throat Spray's biggest advantage is its ability to compress a (weak) boosting move, and either a STAB or coverage into one slot. You can sorta see where I'm going here; we have a ability that tends to lead to 4MSS, and ability that makes moves more slot efficient. With Throat Spray, you can very easily run 3 attacks, protect last, and not really feel like you're missing that much. We've actually already seen the combo work, albeit in lower tiers, with RU's Yanmega, whose dex set is Bug Buzz / Air Slash / Tera Blast / Protect @ Throat Spray.

While I do think there is some risk of us switching it up, and running e.g. Boots or potentially Life Orb, the fact that Throat Spray solves a very major problem inherent in Speed Boost mons makes it a very cool ability to pick. I think the risk of running a different item is not that much higher than e.g. Unburden, which would run Grassy Seed a lot.

 

[mark6870]

What are some specific abilities that can help CAP 34 set up?

This question definitely implies more defensive abilities. I don't think abilites will help us set up more than something like Taunt would, but Guard Dog/Suction Cups come to mind as they disallow Argh or Ting Lu to force us out once we've set up.

What are some abilities that can help facilitate a sweep for CAP 34?

This category of ability is a lot more broad. We can facilitate a sweep through boosting our Speed or boosting our own power further. Unburden is the poster child of the speed boosting abilities. If we get Unburden, however, we may end up using Grassy Seed instead of Throat Spray, which may or may not be a pro-concept item. I personally think it is a bit too common for the archetype as most viable unburden users almost always use some type of seed to set up. There has also been talks of Speed Boost, which definitely encourages our Sweeper role and thus the usage of Throat Spray, but I fear about potential constraints in the rest of the process. I still like it though. I find simple power boosting abilities to have the most potential, given the typing we have. Dragon / Poison is a defensively strong yet offensively meager type combination in this particular metagame. Dragon and Poison have very solid STAB in Sludge Wave and Clanging Scales which hit a broad spectrum for neutral, but they don't hit much for super effective. Water Bubble is an option: having an effective 'third stab' can work wonders here, especially since we would get 'stab' on a type that hits Equilibra and Ting Lu for SE. While Water Bubble is certainly an option, I think boosting these stabs directly with Adaptability is our best option because of this. Adaptability seems to imply Specs, but because our stabs are so neutral across the board, and only threatening together, our own typing discourages the use of a choice item. We really don't want to be locked into a Sludge Wave. It also means we may be able to muscle through a weakened Argh or Ting Lu by virtue of how strong our STAB is. It also disincentivizes Life Orb somewhat since we have the raw power to break through things from the get-go including the unawares. Mold Breaker is the final option I want to discuss in this section. Mold Breaker is specifically for Arghonaut and the occasional Clodsire to break through them despite their Unaware.

Are there any abilities that can be seen as more partial to whether or not we decide to utilize Clangorous Soul? If so, are those worth exploring over generically "good" offensive abilities?

With Clangorous Soul, Mold Breaker stocks go up because now we have a +2 SpA that won't be ignored by Argh. Without Soul, power boosting ability like Adaptability or Water Bubble will become more valuable, although even with Adaptability and Clangorous Soul we may still have trouble with mons like Libra and Ting Lu, because they are just that stupidly bulky. Everything else will get shredded though.

 

[Anchor9]

If we are still going with Clangorous Soul, firstly I want to officially throw Simple out of the window. This would be extremely overpowered and an item such as Heavy-Duty Boots would probably be preferred to provide the best setup opportunities.

Unburden would provide greater synergy with Throat Spray, although may be slightly too strong unless this sweeper is frail. The same goes with Speed Boost.

I like the idea of Mold Breaker and Guard Dog, both of which seem extremely effective without having a high risk of being too strong. Since this process began I’ve been a fan of Dazzling too.

 

[Samirsin]

Armor Tail, Dazzling or Queenly Majesty are abilities that allow CAP 34 to open opportunities to sweep, as they prevent priority from the enemy. If they are combined with Psychic Noise, we completely counter Hemogoblin, as we prevent Extreme Speed and Psychic Noise prevents Bitter Blade from being selected. Another similar option is Psychic Surge, as it creates Psychic Terrain, which does the same, but only for a limited amount of time but boosts Psychic Noise's power.

 

[Earthflax]

At this time I am gonna be opening up ability suggestions!

I thought you'd never ask.

There have been plenty of abilities discussed in the past few days, but none have immediately jumped out to me as a personal favorite. I'll go off of my categorization of abilities that I previous stated. In terms of directly synergistic abilities, I like the idea of Unburden, and I understand the HO-centric build a lot of people are looking for; I think given the correct toolkit I think 34 can also act as a competent cleaner on bulkier teams and adding that versatility, if possible, would be very intriguing, even if longevity is not a particular priority of 34. I'm a bit more in favor of Speed Boost, which, obviously, would probably benefit from running an item which is not our Throat Spray and as a result is probably not great to select, out of an abundance of caution and wariness of our power budget. Simple is interesting but would be broken with Clangorous Soul without huge limitations on movepool and stats; I don't buy that -2 from Clanging Scales is enough of a deterrent on its own. Magician is the other interesting consideration, as it could enable some high-skill play given the wallable nature of both of our STABS.

Something which is interesting to note is that neither Unburden nor Magician help 34 to set up, rather acting as an amplifier of and aid to the setup respectively; I'd concur with the sundew and say that immunity abilities are the best way to allow setup. Aroma Veil has been floated around but seems rather uninspired; the niche interactions that it helps with are undoubtedly very convenient to get rid of, but it does not really change much. Dazzling is an interesting option and there has been talk of its potential feasibility with or without Clangorous Soul (though I personally do not think this ability would be impactful enough without it); the ability to remove one variety of counterplay entirely is very nice to think about. I'm gonna lump in Suction Cups with this ilk because it essentially plays a similar role against Argh and Ting Lu; I think it is a very good option but a bit niche and would need an equally competent secondary IMO which probably shouldn't be something we're gunning for. I'll disagree with the idea that type immunity abilities suit the mon that well innately, but they do the same thing as the abilities I've mentioned just on a larger scale, so I'm not really against them.

Some power-boosting abilities raise some interesting possibilities and help to facilitate a sweep via increasing raw power, including Punk Rock and Adaptability, but if selected would again necessitate a very pragmatic movepool stage, as this boost in power could also open the door to the use of Choice and other common items. I think Adaptability is an ability of particular note, though, as 34's individual STABs are both easily walled which makes Choice items less usable, and it keeps many of the check and counter interactions very solid while still being able to provide the firepower that is expected of this mon. I don't think Water Bubble or other pseudo-STAB abilities are very compelling; it's better to work within the limitations and benefits of our STAB than to give 34 a means to avoid them.

As for Clangorous Soul, there are definitely some abilities which break it like Simple, and others which make it very very strong like Mold Breaker. An ability I haven't mentioned yet is Psychic Surge, which is certainly intriguing as it compresses allowing setup and boosting raw power; I believe that Clangorous Soul would also make this option very limited in later stages. Obviously the stronger the ability in general the less room we'd have to work with given the presence of Clangorous Soul; in other words, better ability and Clangorous Soul likely equates to worse movepool and stats, whatever the degree of that may be.

Thank you all for reading and I look forward to the other ponderances which will arise in this thread.

 

[Blue glass]

While Unburden, Speed Boost, Simple and Levitate are all great abilities, I would like to suggest Berserk or Anger Shell because Clangorous Soul takes 33% of CAP 34 health and a enemy attack could easily put it at less than half HP which would further boost CAP 34 offense.