Metagame Camomons

[Euphonos]

Another post! While their capabilities don't leave as much of an impact as the other Pokemon, they could probably be hidden gems worth using.

Impact Rating: MEDIUM

/

/

/ +++
Azumarill comes to this list as one of the Pokemon with a borderline-high impact thanks to its offensive capabilities booted with Huge Power; it can elect to run either Water/Fairy or Water/Dark (or even Water/Fighting with Superpower), and I feel it's obligatory to run Water here to give Aqua Jet its STAB. Also, a Defensive Water/Poison variant looks amazing too as a Toxic Trapper, although it may not pull off its weight thanks to Slowbro and Slowking capable of running Teleport in getting away being trapped (not to mention either Slowbro or Slowking is capable of using Toxic on their top slot as well).

/

/ +++
Slowking is another Pokemon having a borderline-high impact as well thanks to its possible type combinations, lack of Pursuit, and the buff of Teleport. It would be extremely annoying for opponents if you run both Slowking and Slowbro on the same team with their modded type combinations; that would be one of the trends nowadays.

Comfey deserves to be part of this category because of one thing: Triage. This is extremely useful in revenge killing most Extreme Speed users (Lucario, [non-Fire] Arcanine, and Pikachu) and also capable of setting up Calm Mind to boost its capabilities. It is best paired with Magnezone to trap any Steel-type getting in the way.

/

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It may look crazy as to why I put Skarmory in this category as one of the Pokemon giving a not-so-high impact unlike its old gen brethren: it's because it now has competition with Corviknight, who has better HP and Special Defense. However, what edges Skarmory from Corviknight is its ability to set up Spikes and phaze Pokemon through Whirlwind.

/

/ +++
Druddigon's plethora of options may find this one a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none Pokemon worth running either defensive + Rough Skin sets (in competition with Ferrothorn) or wall-breaker + Sheer Force or Mold Breaker variants.

~

There are other Pokemon whose sets have been under-explored at the moment, but may still leave a mark in the Camomons metagame. If you have discovered something that may be worth sharing, we greatly appreciate them!

In fact, you should bring your creations to the test in the Camomons Isle of Armor Launch Tournament I am hosting! I will not be playing in the tournament; if you wish to have your teams tested, feel free to hit me up!

 

[Siamato]

Don't let his cute face fool you, that Pokémon have the blood-stained horn and you don't want to know why...​

Hi guys, I write this post to begin a discussion on Heracross. I wanted to give my opinion on it and also have yours.

This is the standard Heracross set:

or

Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat / Knock Off
- Knock Off / Close Combat
- Swords Dance / Spikes​

The previous generation Hera wasn't broken in my opinion. There was no more SI than today but the tier was more offensive and the speed tie higher which made it less easily entered and prevented it from doing too much damage.

If Conkeldurr is also problematic, it's nevertheless much slower and in fact simpler to rk. In addition, Heracross has SD which is a significant asset to break what would try to come on. And after that, he can easily take a kill with its incredible power. It also helps by Teleport users which can help it to come safely.

Here is what can be played against it without being absolutely bad.

/

Do you have a problem? Don't worry, there's always a Mew which can save you! And this also true in that case. Bulky Sweeper Mew Fight/Ghost with FB, Sball, NP and Roost or CC, Poltergeist, SD/DD and Roost can deal with Conk and Hera. Also Dark/Ghost version can help but it's maybe too passive. Why not a bulky sweeper version with Sball+NP but i'm not convinced at all... You can also play Taunt as Dark move. This version can take dammage but... you can't touch them!
Moreover it's possible for Mew to outspeed Hera and prevent it to hit after SD. But in that case, you lost some bulk.

Calcs

252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 231-273 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark Hera
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 333-393 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark Hera

With Body Press and Shadow Ball Slowbro is immune to Normal and Fight moves, it's a good answer against Hera and Conk which can kill them with Body Press and it isn't so passive with Iron Def or Teleport utility.

Calcs

+2 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 343-405 (87.2 - 103%) - 18.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 313-369 (79.6 - 93.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO

Dark Heracross at +2 can OHKO and especially if Slowbro takes SR dammages.

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 247-292 (62.8 - 74.3%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 226-267 (57.5 - 67.9%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If you think you can endure Facade without a Ghost typing or a resist.

With Intimidate this is probably one of the best answer against Hera but nobody plays Intimidate when you can have Flash Fire. But, without Intimidate is it possible to check Hera?

Calcs

252 Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 248 Def Arcanine: 175-206 (45.5 - 53.6%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 248 Def Arcanine: 349-411 (90.8 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

And this is without STAB !! So ok, you just need full def spread to have a chance to not die on CC from Normal/Dark Hera.

With Intimidate and Dark/Ghost typing Incineroar can easily switch on Hera/Conk... No in fact it's a joke. You can switch in yeah but you lost your Lefto and after that you can easily be pressured by hazards or cheap dammage. Also for the Ghost type you need Shadow Claw... Bruh.

and

In stall you can play that? Pex can take one hit from +2 Dark Hera and... ??? You can Haze but after that you need to switch otherwise Hera finish you. You can Recover... yes but in fact you're 2HKO by Knock Off without item.
Clefable needs to be Unaware and full def to have a really good chance to live 2 Knock Off from Dark Hera.

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 164-194 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 246-291 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark and Pex without item

252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 136-160 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark

Always with the Fight/Ghost typing, Reuniclus is another mon which can deal with Hera/Conk but... not so easily in fact...

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Reuniclus: 415-490 (97.8 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO from Dark Hera

and

With a max hp invest you have a chance to no being OHKOed by Knock Off from the Normal/Fight version.

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Blade: 230-271 (88.1 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Blade: 230-271 (71.2 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO no Dark

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 273-322 (90.6 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 273-322 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO no Dark

Dark always kill.

And this is all. Sigi Fairy/Ghost is OHKOed by Dark Knock Off if it hasn't a max def spread but in that case you haven't a sufficient speed to Roost after the second Knock Off. Jelli Dark/Ghost lost because it can't do anything. Many Ghost/Fairy aren't viable because of their passivity.

In view of what I presented above, there's just one argument which can save Heracross: it's easy to rk it. But is it sufficient?

To compare, there was approximately 18 mons higher than the B+ rank which can rk Hera in USUM and now it's more like 10 (considering ith VR + relevant new mons). Either a loss of about 44% of its rk.

If you want an answer against Heracross/Conk you need a very specific typing which is generally not so good due to passivity or less useful in other situations. Despite that, it's hard to take dammage from Knock Off at +2. For these reasons, please, I would like the council studies the question.

This isn't a post to say "plz ban hera" but to attract your attention on Hera which can be potentially to strong in the tier atm. I'm sure the council have this mon in mind but i wanted to express my opinion on it here.

I mentionned Hera but I think we'll also have to discuss mons like Magearna, PZ or Mew. Thanks for reading and hope Camotour participants will have a lot of fun and will help Camomons to advance! Also thanks to Euphonos for his amazing contribution to Camo!

PS: Unfort i think my english will be always bad...

 

[anaconja]

Forgot one more mon:

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross (Dark) Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 213-252 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (e.g. it can't 2HKO from full)
252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 474-560 (157.4 - 186%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Siamato]

Here is what can be played against it without being absolutely bad.

Body Press + Curse for the typing. Obviously Curse is a really bad move and just use for the typing here. In the last slots you can put Toxic/RS/Iron Def and Recover. This mon is really passif even if it has more bulk than Slowbro/Mew. It's bad as spinner because it completely walled by Ghost. And if you choose Toxic, is there not a better Fight/Ghost less passive? It's playable but only in stall I think.

But you're right, I could have mentioned it because it's technically the best physical tank with recovery. Thanks for reminding it! :)

 

[Euphonos]

Good day, everyone! Camomons meteorologist here bringing you a weather report on the 5 most used Pokemon in the Qualifying Rounds (should I say, Round 0?) of the Camomons Isle of Armor Launch Tournament! This report comes from tabulating fourteen replays from five different matches (out of eight pairings).

5. ALAKAZAM

/

Frequency: 9 / 28 (32.14%)
Win Percentage: 55.56%
​

As much as I would expect a Ghost/Fairy typing because it takes advantage of three types being immune to, it looks like players are taking advantage of Alakazam's high-octane attacks (Focus Blast or Psychic) alongside Dazzling Gleam as Fairy is one of the most powerful offensive types. It is understandable why Alakazam definitely makes a significant impact in the Camomons metagame: thanks to Magic Guard, it really makes scouting very rigid whether that Alakazam uses a Focus Sash or a Life Orb; with those things, it is bound to rack some kills.

Euphonos Special - open if you're brave

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Encore
- Curse

On the other hand, I actually crafted a rather unusual Alakazam set that takes advantage of the Ghost/Fairy typing, and it actually works on hyper offensive teams because of the momentum it brings even it sacrifices its health by virtue of Curse. It actually acts as a counter to Rapid Spin to keep hazards going (in my team's case, Sticky Web + Stealth Rock), and acts as a disruptor against support Pokemon thanks to Encore. With Alakazam's health about to be whittled any time soon, Curse makes it possible to sacrifice itself, allowing more room for a plethora of set-up attackers to shine.

4. MEW

/

Frequency: 11 / 28 (39.29%)
Win Percentage: 45.45%​

Matiss98: Lol what's that world where Mew has less than 90% usage ??!

We all know Mew, without any shadow of a doubt, is the face of the Camomons metagame. However, with lots of more offensive-geared Pokemon come Isle of Armor DLC, players actually tend to run more offensive options, and as such, Mew is more gravitated towards bulky offense / balanced builds that consequently hampered its usage. Maybe it's just the qualifying rounds that players don't have much of an idea how Mew is potent in the metagame, and probably in the future rounds, I am expecting a surging Mew usage given the quality of the match-ups come Round 1.

3. EXCADRILL

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Frequency: 11 / 28 (39.29%)
Win Percentage: 55.56%​

When it comes to heavy offense in most of the recorded matches, it looks like Excadrill has been a staple in such. I don't have more to say about this Pokemon, but it is undoubtedly one of the most proficient Pokemon in setting up Stealth Rock and use Rapid Spin to clear out any hazards in the field, enough to hold on its own ground even in the Isle of Armor DLC era.

2. MAGEARNA

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/ +++
Frequency: 13 / 28 (46.43%)
Win Percentage: 53.85%​

New toy syndrome happened in Isle of Armor DLC, and Magearna is one of those Pokemon that were used in a lot of matches, and they actually used in a lot of ways: possible moves, and possible type combinations. Looks like I apparently underestimated how much impact this Pokemon has in the metagame, and it definitely surpassed my expectations. There may be a chance of Magearna getting the hammer late in the tournament because of its plethora of ways to set up along with its set of moves making it quite hard to check (and it's stronger and possibly bulkier than Mew in that regard!).

1. DRAGAPULT

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Frequency: 15 / 28 (53.57%)
Win Percentage: 53.33%​

Thanks to its blistering Speed alongside its different and polarizing attacking moveset, Dragapult has been one of Camomons's newest staples that really hold its ground even during the DLC era. Nothing much else has changed on Dragapult's end, but the metagame demands more from one of the staples to get the job done.


For more information, please visit http://spo.ink/swshcamotouriiusage to see how the rest of the Pokemon fare in the Camomons Isle of Armor Launch Tournament. I personally enjoy what Camomons has become at this stage -- those who made lot of playtests with me, those who are looking for a bit of metagame knowledge, and all else; I really appreciate the effort that has poured into this tournament.

 

[Ka1xo]

 

[Siamato]

View attachment 259101
Don't let his cute face fool you, that Pokémon have the blood-stained horn and you don't want to know why...​

Hi guys, I write this post to begin a discussion on Heracross. I wanted to give my opinion on it and also have yours.

This is the standard Heracross set:

or

Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat / Knock Off
- Knock Off / Close Combat
- Swords Dance / Spikes​

The previous generation Hera wasn't broken in my opinion. There was no more SI than today but the tier was more offensive and the speed tie higher which made it less easily entered and prevented it from doing too much damage.

If Conkeldurr is also problematic, it's nevertheless much slower and in fact simpler to rk. In addition, Heracross has SD which is a significant asset to break what would try to come on. And after that, he can easily take a kill with its incredible power. It also helps by Teleport users which can help it to come safely.

Here is what can be played against it without being absolutely bad.

/

Do you have a problem? Don't worry, there's always a Mew which can save you! And this also true in that case. Bulky Sweeper Mew Fight/Ghost with FB, Sball, NP and Roost or CC, Poltergeist, SD/DD and Roost can deal with Conk and Hera. Also Dark/Ghost version can help but it's maybe too passive. Why not a bulky sweeper version with Sball+NP but i'm not convinced at all... You can also play Taunt as Dark move. This version can take dammage but... you can't touch them!
Moreover it's possible for Mew to outspeed Hera and prevent it to hit after SD. But in that case, you lost some bulk.

Calcs

252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 231-273 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark Hera
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 333-393 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark Hera

With Body Press and Shadow Ball Slowbro is immune to Normal and Fight moves, it's a good answer against Hera and Conk which can kill them with Body Press and it isn't so passive with Iron Def or Teleport utility.

Calcs

+2 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 343-405 (87.2 - 103%) - 18.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 313-369 (79.6 - 93.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO

Dark Heracross at +2 can OHKO and especially if Slowbro takes SR dammages.

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 247-292 (62.8 - 74.3%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 226-267 (57.5 - 67.9%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If you think you can endure Facade without a Ghost typing or a resist.

With Intimidate this is probably one of the best answer against Hera but nobody plays Intimidate when you can have Flash Fire. But, without Intimidate is it possible to check Hera?

Calcs

252 Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 248 Def Arcanine: 175-206 (45.5 - 53.6%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 248 Def Arcanine: 349-411 (90.8 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

And this is without STAB !! So ok, you just need full def spread to have a chance to not die on CC from Normal/Dark Hera.

With Intimidate and Dark/Ghost typing Incineroar can easily switch on Hera/Conk... No in fact it's a joke. You can switch in yeah but you lost your Lefto and after that you can easily be pressured by hazards or cheap dammage. Also for the Ghost type you need Shadow Claw... Bruh.

and

In stall you can play that? Pex can take one hit from +2 Dark Hera and... ??? You can Haze but after that you need to switch otherwise Hera finish you. You can Recover... yes but in fact you're 2HKO by Knock Off without item.
Clefable needs to be Unaware and full def to have a really good chance to live 2 Knock Off from Dark Hera.

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 164-194 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 246-291 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark and Pex without item

252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 136-160 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dark

Always with the Fight/Ghost typing, Reuniclus is another mon which can deal with Hera/Conk but... not so easily in fact...

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Reuniclus: 415-490 (97.8 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO from Dark Hera

and

With a max hp invest you have a chance to no being OHKOed by Knock Off from the Normal/Fight version.

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Blade: 230-271 (88.1 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Blade: 230-271 (71.2 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO no Dark

+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 273-322 (90.6 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 273-322 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO no Dark

Dark always kill.

And this is all. Sigi Fairy/Ghost is OHKOed by Dark Knock Off if it hasn't a max def spread but in that case you haven't a sufficient speed to Roost after the second Knock Off. Jelli Dark/Ghost lost because it can't do anything. Many Ghost/Fairy aren't viable because of their passivity.

In view of what I presented above, there's just one argument which can save Heracross: it's easy to rk it. But is it sufficient?

To compare, there was approximately 18 mons higher than the B+ rank which can rk Hera in USUM and now it's more like 10 (considering ith VR + relevant new mons). Either a loss of about 44% of its rk.

If you want an answer against Heracross/Conk you need a very specific typing which is generally not so good due to passivity or less useful in other situations. Despite that, it's hard to take dammage from Knock Off at +2. For these reasons, please, I would like the council studies the question.

This isn't a post to say "plz ban hera" but to attract your attention on Hera which can be potentially to strong in the tier atm. I'm sure the council have this mon in mind but i wanted to express my opinion on it here.

I mentionned Hera but I think we'll also have to discuss mons like Magearna, PZ or Mew. Thanks for reading and hope Camotour participants will have a lot of fun and will help Camomons to advance! Also thanks to Euphonos for his amazing contribution to Camo!

PS: Unfort i think my english will be always bad...

Hi guys! Do you remember this post? Ok in fact I was wrong because I forgot to take that into account:

Haha.

 

[Euphonos]

Good day, everyone! Camomons meteorologist here bringing you another weather report on the five most used Pokemon after the first round of the Camomons Isle of Armor Launch Tournament has concluded! Who made it to the top of the rankings? Let's find out.

Again, the comprehensive details are found in http://spo.ink/swshcamotouriiusage. Thirty-six (36) games from fifteen (15) Round 1 matches have been tabulated, and this post will tackle the cumulative usage of Pokemon usage in this tournament alone -- from Round 0 onward.

5. HERACROSS (New Entry)
Top 2 Types:

(11) /

(4)
Frequency: 26 / 100 (26.00%)
Win Percentage: 46.15%
​

This probably stemmed from the discussion Matiss98 has initiated in the thread that somehow made its surge in appearance. Making it part-Normal is the most conventional route people use as they take advantage of the boosted Facade; it all depends on the teammates' coverage to make Heracross either part-Fighting, part-Dark, or even part-Ghost as Chazm first brought up in the scene. Will this trend stay the same, or will there be some ways in dealing with one of the most menacing physical attackers in the realm of Camomons?

4. SLOWBRO (New Entry)
Top 2 Types:

(15) /

(15)
Frequency: 35 / 100 (35.00%)
Win Percentage: 62.86%​

With Heracross being one of the most menacing physical attackers in Camomons, Slowbro stood out as one of the greatest stalwarts against Heracross. I actually believed how much impact it could bring to the table, now that the usage has spiked up in Round 1. With that, Slowbro will remain the defensive stronghold that can take as many physical attacks as possible while either providing momentum through Teleport or outright switching out -- both while regenerating its health for long-term success. Will players find a way in dealing with one of the defensive stalwarts in the realm of Camomons?

3. MAGEARNA (↓1)
Top 2 Types:

(9) /

(8)
Frequency: 38 / 100 (38.00%)
Win Percentage: 47.37%​

Magearna is one of those Pokemon who stayed their ground as people used Magearna more and more. With the top two types not even reaching double-digits means that its possible type combinations are endless that it's one of the toughest Pokemon to prepare for as one of the offensive powerhouses. Compared to Mew which is rather predictable once scouted, Magearna has a lot of set-up moves in its arsenal, will it be too much for the Camomons metagame to handle?

2. DRAGAPULT (↓1)
Top 2 Types:

(9) /

(7)
Frequency: 46 / 100 (46.00%)
Win Percentage: 54.35%​

Dragapult remained consistent in the rankings because of its blistering Speed and its polarizing styles depending on which team will gear towards. This is another Pokemon that has a rather wide array of type combinations, with Electric/Dragon and Electric/Ghost booming in that round alone, despite not getting any appearances from Round 0.

1. MEW (↑3)
Top 2 Types:

(20) /

(11)
Frequency: 63 / 100 (63.00%)
Win Percentage: 49.21%​

As expected, Mew, being the face of the Camomons metagame, delivered big time. While there are a whopping sixteen type combinations used in the tournament so far, there are things worth considering: the Electric/Flying Mew were mostly offensive variants with Nasty Plot + Hurricane (in which a lot of people really anticipated it to be one of the best offensive Pokemon that way), while the Water/Flying variant is mostly a defensive one; it may be extremely polarizing to see such different sets in different lenses, but once people figure out what Mew's role is to the entire team, it gets a little predictable once it enters the field.


ROUND 1 OBSERVATIONS

What attributed to the rise of Slowbro's and Heracross's usage possibly stemmed from Karl Dude Guy's semi-stall team that has somehow been spreading like wildfire during that round. Slowbro's relatively high win percentage is mostly reflective of the team's success, and given people having the grasp of the metagame, I believe this team would be of great help to them. If Karl Dude Guy can showcase this team to us, then it would be greatly appreciated.

Excadrill and Alakazam dropped from the preliminary rankings because Hyper Offense teams somehow dwindled in number compared to the number of balance and semi-stall teams present in this affair. However, these Pokemon still shouldn't be underestimated because while they only fit to offensive-geared teams, it is their high-octane offense that made their success possible. Will players have the ability to explore more about these two gems here?

While Heracross has been given some in-depth discussion in the thread and in the Camomons Discord, there were clamors from other people as well that Magearna (and Mew, to an extent) needs more in-depth discussion as well whether or not it would be too much for the metagame to handle. Feel free to discuss about the impact these three Pokemon have in the current Camomons metagame. Will they be the face of the Camomons in the years to come? Will there be a suspect test waiting for these three, or will there be other Pokemon lurking in the dark, waiting for the right timing to prove too much for the metagame to handle?

Stay tuned!

 

[Don Vascus]

I wanted to drop two concepts to see what you think

First: Curse Chansey

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Curse
- Toxic
- filler

Ghost/Normal is a very good typing for Chansey, But it forces her to run shadow ball, that hits like someone hitting you with a feather. The other option she has its Curse, which is trash, but is it worse than running shadow ball?
With some proper play, Chansey can circumvent one of her biggest weaknesses, being setup bait, with Curse+Toxic. Said combination can be used to stallbreak as well
Although, Chansey needs to be at full health to make full use of this, and she has to sacrifice a actually useful ability due to Curse being a Gen 2 TM.
I use this combination in the OM Mashup Camomons+Almost Any Ability with Regenerator as the ability as to offset the recoil, and funnily enough it has been most useful in situations where Chansey stays after the Curse for a few turns, so I thought it might have potencial in regular Camomons



Second: Poison/Dark Avalugg

Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Crunch
- Toxic
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Normally Avalugg sucks as a spinner because it gets spinblocked for free. But at the price of giving up the many resistances of steel and the power of body press it gets to threaten ghosts and Rapid Spin effectively. I personally wouldn't run it though, I get a kick from body pressing with Avalugg.

Edit: Completely forgot how good is poison/dark, so i changed it


What do you all think about these sets?

 

[Euphonos]

Good day, everyone! Camomons meteorologist here bringing you another weather report

Those who wish to get their hands dirty on this metagame may now view this video!

 

[Schpoonman]

I wanted to drop two concepts to see what you think

First: Curse Chansey

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Curse
- Toxic
- filler

Ghost/Normal is a very good typing for Chansey, But it forces her to run shadow ball, that hits like someone hitting you with a feather. The other option she has its Curse, which is trash, but is it worse than running shadow ball?
With some proper play, Chansey can circumvent one of her biggest weaknesses, being setup bait, with Curse+Toxic. Said combination can be used to stallbreak as well
Although, Chansey needs to be at full health to make full use of this, and she has to sacrifice a actually useful ability due to Curse being a Gen 2 TM.
I use this combination in the OM Mashup Camomons+Almost Any Ability with Regenerator as the ability as to offset the recoil, and funnily enough it has been most useful in situations where Chansey stays after the Curse for a few turns, so I thought it might have potencial in regular Camomons



Second: Steel/Dark Avalugg

Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Crunch
- Iron Head
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Normally Avalugg sucks as a spinner because it gets spinblocked for free. But at the price of a 4x weakness to fighting it gets to threaten ghosts and Rapid Spin effectively. I have my doubts with this one as Fighting coverage on physical attakers is very common so it wont be able to wall things it otherwise could, but i think it can work with the right team support. I personally wouldn't run it though, I get a kick from body pressing with Avalugg.


What do you all think about these sets?

Any reason to not run Curse or Toxic on Avalugg?

 

[Don Vascus]

Any reason to not run Curse or Toxic on Avalugg?

Actually never thought of poison dark avalugg, but curse is kinda bleh

 

[in the hills]

The first official Viability Rankings for Camomons this gen has been finished, enjoy!
Viability Rankings
S rank
Mew [Electric/Flying, Ground/Flying, Water/Flying, Steel/Flying, Fire/Electric, etc]

A rank
A+
Clefable [Dark/Poison, Fire/Electric, Fire/Fairy, Fairy/Normal]
Dragapult [Dragon/Fire, Water/Ghost, Dragon/Electric, Electric/Ghost, Dragon/Water, Dragon/Steel, etc]
Heracross [Normal/Dark, Dark/Fighting, Normal/Ghost, Normal/Fighting]
Magearna [Electric/Fairy, Ghost/Fairy, Fighting/Fairy, Steel/Fairy, Steel/Ghost]

A
Alakazam [Ghost/Fairy, Ghost/Fighting, Fighting/Fairy]
Arcanine [Normal/Fairy, Normal/Fire, Normal/Dark]
Blissey [Normal/Psychic, Normal]
Haxorus [Bug/Ground, Bug/Fighting, Ground/Fighting]
Jirachi [Steel/Fairy, Steel/Bug]
Kommo-o [Normal/Fire, Normal/Dragon, Steel/Ground, Ground/Fighting]
Lucario [Normal/Fighting, Normal/Dark, Normal/Fire]
Mandibuzz [Dark/Poison]
Porygon-Z [Electric/Ghost, Electric/Ice]
Reuniclus [Steel/Ghost, Steel/Psychic]
Slowbro [Ghost/Fighting, Water/Poison, Water/Fighting, Grass/Poison]
Toxapex [Dark/Poison, Water/Poison]
Volcarona [Fire/Grass, Fire/Flying, Fire/Psychic]

A-
Cinderace [Fighting/Poison]
Hippowdon [Rock/Ground, Ground/Poison]
Necrozma [Dragon/Fairy, Ground/Psychic]
Pelipper [Water/Bug, Water/Flying, Dark/Flying]
Rillaboom [Grass/Ground, Grass/Fighting]
Scizor [Steel/Flying]
Slowking [Fire/Ground, Water/Ground, Dark/Poison]
Urshifu-Single-Strike [Dark/Poison]

B rank
B+
Celebi [Fairy/Ghost]
Chandelure [Grass/Ghost]
Chansey [Normal, Grass/Poison]
Coalossal [Steel/Ground, Steel/Grass, Ground/Water, Water/Fighting]
Drednaw [Water/Ground]
Excadrill [Steel/Ground, Poison/Ground]
Incineroar [Bug/Fighting, Ghost/Fighting]
Lycanroc-Dusk [Dark/Fairy, Dark/Steel]
Kingdra [Water/Flying, Water/Dragon]
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike [Water/Electric, Water/Bug]

B
Aegislash [Ghost/Fighting]
Braviary [Steel/Flying, Fighting/Flying]
Cloyster [Bug/Ground, Normal/Ice]
Espeon [Water/Fairy]
Ferrothorn [Grass/Steel]
Gengar [Ghost/Fairy, Fairy/Electric]
Grimmsnarl [Dark/Fairy]
Jellicent [Water/Fairy, Fire/Fairy]
Marowak-Alola [Ground/Dark, Ground/Ghost, Ground/Fire]
Scyther [Steel/Flying]
Sigilyph [Ghost/Fairy, Steel/Flying]
Tangrowth [Grass/Poison, Dark/Poison]

B-
Avalugg [Ghost/Fighting, Ghost/Steel, Steel/Fighting]
Barraskewda [Water/Fighting]
Bisharp [Dark/Poison]
Diggersby [Dark/Ground, Dark/Poison, Ground/Fighting, Bug/Ground]
Gyarados [Water/Grass]
Hawlucha [Steel/Flying, Fighting/Flying]
Magnezone [Fighting/Electric]
Noivern [Normal/Fire, Normal/Dark]
Keldeo [Flying/Fighting]
Shuckle [Bug/Poison]
Skarmory [Fighting/Flying]
Rotom-Heat [Electric/Ghost, Electric/Fire]
Rotom-Wash [Electric/Ghost]
Toxtricity [Normal/Electric, Normal/Ghost, Normal/Dark]
Tyranitar [Dragon/Rock]

C
Accelgor [Ground/Dark]
Araquanid [Water/Poison]
Comfey [Grass/Fairy]
Druddigon [Normal/Ground]
Hatterene [Fairy/Grass, Fire/Fairy, Water/Grass]
Jolteon [Water/Electric, Fire/Electric]
Sirfetch'd [Bug/Fighting, Fighting/Flying]
Togekiss [Steel/Flying]
Torkoal [Fire/Normal]
Vaporeon [Water/Fairy]
Venusaur [Grass/Ground, Grass/Fire, Grass/Poison]

As the current Camomons tour finishes, the next resource we would like to work on are samples. If anyone would like to submit sample teams for Camomons, post them on the thread with a short description of how they work and why they should be considered for samples!

 

[Euphonos]

Good day, everyone! Camomons meteorologist here bringing you another weather report video sharing our team building processes with my special guest and fellow member of the Camomons council, Chazm! Please check this video out, and don't forget to like the video and subscribe to my channel for more Camomons-related (and other Pokemon Showdown-related) content!

 

[in the hills]

Quickban Update: Heracross​

With the conclusion of Euphonos' Camomons DLC Launch Tour, the council began talking about tiering decisions, and we have decided to ban Heracross. Heracross was an incredibly potent threat with Guts Facade off of 125 base Attack, alongside various coverage and typing options, particularly Normal/Ghost, that limited defensive counterplay dramatically. For example, Fighting/Ghost Slowbro's use as a check to Normal/Fighting Heracross left it completely vulnerable to Ghost/Normal Heracross. With a base 85 Speed tier, Heracross did have more flexible offensive counterplay options, but even then offense sometimes struggled against it, especially under Sticky Webs. While Heracross did have its downsides, such as shortened lifespan due to continuous burn damage, Heracross' ability to dismantle builds made it too threatening for this metagame.

Votes

User	Vote
a loser	DNB
Andyboy	BAN
Chazm	BAN
Euphonos	BAN
In the Hills	BAN

Tagging The Immortal and Kris to implement.

 

[Euphonos]

Good day, everyone! Camomons meteorologist here bringing you another weather report video showcasing the team Chazm and I built in the August 15 iteration of the Other Metagames Daily Tour. However, with Heracross being banned as decided by the Council recently, this will be the last time Heracross is seen in action in this video.

Right after the Other Metagames Daily Tour, Karl Dude Guy lined up a Camomons tournament in the Tournaments Room; that eventually made me bring up one of the semi-stall teams I've been working on for quite a long time.

Again, those who wish to get their hands dirty in the Camomons metagame and see more of my content are encouraged to subscribe to my channel!

 

[Euphonos]

Good day again, everyone! Camomons meteorologist here bringing you another weather report video featuring the latest variation of the Rotom-Frost semi-stall taking on opponents in the August 22 iteration of the Other Metagames Daily Tour series! It showcases how functional Neutralizing Gas Galarian Weezing with Corrosive Gas (a non-damaging Knock Off) is on semi-stall teams; go check it out!

(mfw anaconja brought Stall as well lol)

Again, those who wish to get their hands dirty in the Camomons metagame and see more of my content are encouraged to subscribe to my channel!

 

[soral_a_raison]

what about magearna and cinderace?

 

[Euphonos]

what about magearna and cinderace?

Magearna and Cinderace, while banned in the official OU metagame, are still playable in the Camomons metagame. There's a hint of discussion of Magearna in this metagame as there are lots of sets that Pokemon can run, and I personally don't think Cinderace is deemed broken here because of the metagame nuances that gives Cinderace a hard time dealing with most bulky Pokemon, like Water/Fighting Slowbro.

 

[soral_a_raison]

Magearna and Cinderace, while banned in the official OU metagame, are still playable in the Camomons metagame. There's a hint of discussion of Magearna in this metagame as there are lots of sets that Pokemon can run, and I personally don't think Cinderace is deemed broken here because of the metagame nuances that gives Cinderace a hard time dealing with most bulky Pokemon, like Water/Fighting Slowbro.

as usual, balancing the meta around the top 10 pokemons is not a good idea for pushing a creative and diverse OM (which is the strength of that OM, even though every team has Mew xD)

The problem with Cinderace is just that it kinda breaks the camomon experience, the whole concept, because of his talent (or just ban his talent). And it's confusing to not follow the OU bans either. But I haven't followed camomons recently so I may be wrong on this pokemon, it's just a pain in the ass in every other meta, I can hardly imagine him being bearable here.

 

[Andyboy]

as usual, balancing the meta around the top 10 pokemons is not a good idea for pushing a creative and diverse OM (which is the strength of that OM, even though every team has Mew xD)

The problem with Cinderace is just that it kinda breaks the camomon experience, the whole concept, because of his talent (or just ban his talent). And it's confusing to not follow the OU bans either. But I haven't followed camomons recently so I may be wrong on this pokemon, it's just a pain in the ass in every other meta, I can hardly imagine him being bearable here.

Since Euphonos already answered you and you kinda just... ignored his friendlier explanation, i'm going to ask a blunt question here. Why are you complaining about a metagame that you clearly do not play often or at all, and admit to knowing next to nothing about? Clear and concise arguments about why Cinderace is an unhealthy presence in the metagame are always valued over general speculation based off of other metagames like OU. I can't stress this enough, Camo is VERY different from OU and Cinderace and Magearna are decent, but certainly aren't seen as problematic Pokemon. If anything, this reinforces the idea that OMs are right to run the metagame around our own personal banlist rather than following an OU banlist and getting rid of mons that aren't banworthy. Maybe Cinderace and Magearna are unexplored and are better than we think but for now you should improve your imagination, because they don't even approach a top meta threats right now, especially Cinderace.

As for Libero "breaking the concept" of Camomons, Protean Greninja was allowed in Gen 7 Camomons so it only makes sense that an identical ability would be allowed in Gen 8 and it's easy to understand what Libero does in Camo because the ability works exactly like it would in any other meta you just have more information about what it is running because of its typing when if first comes in. I sympathize with your confusion over the switch from an OU-based banlist from Gen 7 to Gen 8 but all you really need to do is read the original post of the thread there banlist is right there, there's a ban archive right below that, there's posts for all of the individual bans and suspects we've had, and there's a Camomons discord where Hills announces all of the tiering changes and other important things you really just need to spend 5-10 minutes reading the original thread just like you would for OU or any other meta it's very simple to learn and follow.

Also please don't post one liners if you had explained why you thought Cinderace or Magearna shouldn't be allowed like you did in your post answering Euphonos that wouldn't be a problem but one liners are rarely a welcome addition to a thread and this one is no different. If you have a simple question you can ask in the Other Metas room on Showdown or the Other Metas Discord.

 

[Talpr0ne]

as usual, balancing the meta around the top 10 pokemons is not a good idea for pushing a creative and diverse OM (which is the strength of that OM, even though every team has Mew xD)

The problem with Cinderace is just that it kinda breaks the camomon experience, the whole concept, because of his talent (or just ban his talent). And it's confusing to not follow the OU bans either. But I haven't followed camomons recently so I may be wrong on this pokemon, it's just a pain in the ass in every other meta, I can hardly imagine him being bearable here.

I would argue that Libero if anything makes Cinderace MORE predictable in Camomons, not less. Because it already has STAB on every attack, there is no mind game involved at team preview and it is therefore less mentally taxing there. Another thing is that since it has STAB on everything regardless, it tends to pick combinations like Fighting/Poison and (less commonly) Fighting/Steel in order to minimize hazard damage and the reliance on boots. Ironically, although it doesn't strictly have to do this, this ends up making it effectively more predictable, as two slots can be already imagined at team preview and be ultimately revealed once it is sent out (whereas in OU you don't know any slot beforehand).

 

[CarrotForNakama]

Kommo-o @ Salac Berry
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Drain Punch
- Belly Drum
- Substitute

I feel like not enough people use Belly Drum Kommo-o, especially with how helpful his Substitute/Soundproof combo is. And in Camomons, he can get STAB with a type coverage that leaves no pokemon with resistance unless it's normal/ghost type.

 

[Euphonos]

Good day, everyone! Camomons meteorologist bringing you another weather report video releasing a new chapter in team building live on YouTube, reviving the Camomons Iron Chef project. Recorded last August 27, 8:00 AM GMT +8, this pilot run episode featured K3ppr and Iron Chef Jrdn with the secret ingredient being "Gameboy Color" such that participants must feature one Pokemon from each Pokedex Color found in the Gameboy Color series (Red, Blue, Green, and Yellow), with two wildcards allowed. Also featured in the video is Andyboy who helped me in judging the teams. Iron Chef Jrdn triumphed in the team building challenge against K3ppr, and is featured in the Other Metagames Daily Tour series recorded on August 29, 6:00 AM GMT +8 (and will be uploaded and edited in this post in a few hours).

UPDATED:

Speaking of this (unofficial) project, I am initiating this project bi-weekly to alternate between the collaborative team building series I have initiated earlier on (reference to this project here). With that, I would like to ask a bit of favor for those who wish to participate in this endeavor, in which the minimum requirements are being able to make calls and being able to share the computer screen (not the camera!) through Discord. So, if you're interested in participating (apart from those whom I have invited), leave me a PM and I will give you a brief about this project.

Hoping to keep the Camomons metagame more alive with these projects I've been working on. Have a nice day, and stay safe, guys!

 

[Don Vascus]

I want to nominate Avalugg to move up one spot on the tier list to B. After using Poison/Dark Avalugg for a while, I can confirm that it is a pretty good typing for it, as it allows it to spin efectively as any ghosts daring to try spinblocking it risk getting crunched. This recent development gives Avalugg a unique niche as the only spinner with recovery and the bulk to take some hits (even if those hits must be physical ones). If you disagree and believe it deserves to stay in B-, could you at least add Poison/Dark to the list of viable typings?