Bye Bye Gen 4
Yea, I'm still playing Gen 4, not much though. This will likely be the last gen 4 team I make, though I had a few goes at BW that weren't exactly fun, it's time to move on once the bans settle. Anyway, this team spawned from an old wishrachi team I updated from my other RMT. CMrachi just was not cutting it; too many Heatran and Flygon to deal with. I had a subroost (emphasis on the bro) Zapdos on the team and it worked really well so I figured I'll just start a new team with it. This is another common post mence team albeit a few rarities. I'm not going to go though team building that no one reads (or this intro) so here it is, exported right from the simulator (!!!)
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Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
---
Starmie is....a great lead. It starts of the match with such an advantage, not to mention it pressures my opponent with rapid spin and the somewhat powerful hydro pump. Heatran, Metagross, Infernape, Azelf, ect are pretty common now, and Starmie either beats them, wrecks the switch, or goes to my own Heatran for rocks. Most Heatran don’t even stay so its free ice beams for their Flygon / Shaymin or other common crap you see on every team. Speaking of common, it’s really no wonder why this starfish is everywhere now. It requires little skill; just click the super effective move and wallah. But Starmie’s true goal is to stop stealth rock; keeping it off the field is crucial to this team.
Hydro pump over surf for power, KOing Scizor, Flygon, Lucario, and more! Ice Beam and Thunderbolt provide decent enough coverage. Rapid spin is very important because it can work in a pinch to get rid of rocks and spikes, which are very effective against my team. EVs are standard for an all out special attacker. Only considered changes are adding psychic to get a 50% chance of KOing Machamp, but I like to plan for the worst case scenario and can't afford to lose rapid spin or part of the boltbeam coverage.
Heatran (M) @ Passho Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Hp / 6 SpA / 252 SDef
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
---
Heatran is this teams weak link I suppose, but it needs to be here for stealth rock, resistances, check to Rotom and Scizor, ect. Nothing really new here. I just bring it in on stuff like Scizor or Metagross and stealth rock. Blast what I can, then boom, unless I need to check Scizor or something. I’ll be honest; I really don’t like this set because it isn’t very strong, and it has such a bad speed stat. Lots of crap can just waltz in with earthquake or close combat and deal tons of damage. I adjust my resist berry according to what I see alot of; I run chople mainly for Infernape, Lucario, Gengar, Machamp, ect. Resists berries are a real favorite of mine, the lesser known ones are so easy to abuse and so unexpected.
Set has been EV'd specially defensively. Helps big time with Gengar, Starmie, Jolteon, even Shaymin / Celebi. Gengar can't 2HKO me with focus blast + shadow ball most of the time. Starmie loses even with t-bolt + hydro pump due to passho. Jolteon can't 2HKO me with specs and SR. Shaymin and Celebi have a pathetic chance at an OHKO even with SR. Also helps against rain dancers which are rare and novice but can and have beat me badly. I left the moves; Fire blast makes up for the low SpA (lava plume does only 55% to 6 Hp Shaymin), and I kept explosion to deal with waters (still KOs Gyara after rocks), and to accomplish Heatran's true goal: SR and boom.
I am open to changes, but it needs SR. LO + SR just doesn’t work though. The resist berry can be changed as well as the secondary attack move. I’d rather keep explosion I can can get at least 1 KO. 32 Atk is for Blissey and a bit more sting. I am open to suggestions on any SR Heatran set. Name it, I'll try it. Moving on.
Metagross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunderpunch
- Trick
---
I use this set quite a bit now. It checks so much stuff, and with a bit of surprise too. Lucario, Gyarados, Dragonite, Gengar, Starmie, Kingdra, you name it. Great cleaner too with boosting Meteor Mash. This thing is stronger, less expected, and bulkier than Scarf Jirachi, not to mention has a better movepool. (EQ, Explosion, Pursuit). It’s goal is just to revenge stuff, get surprise KOs, then explode and get another free kill. Can’t even tell you how many Gengars I switch into and KO. Without sturdy steel resists, Meta commonly cleans up lategame with +1 / +1, and I can just beat my way past a team like SD Scizor. Meta here really pulls the team together; molti importante.
The last slot is really variable, I can run trick, Ice punch, even pursuit. Thunderpunch nets free KOs on Starmie, Meteor mash just beats down stuff that doesn’t resist it. EQ for coverage. EVs are needed to beat Adamant Gyarados, no option there. I'm thinking of running Jirachi with the same EVs and moves (iron head over meteor mash) for the speed and better ability to beat Scizor and flinch. Thoughts?
Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry / Yache Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Spd / 52 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Light Screen
- Roost
---
This set emulates Latias with surprising effectiveness. My older RMT with scarfgross was weak to the plethora of special attackers, and this set is one of the best checks to most of them, save Jirachi (which Meta beats most of the time). Really weird set, but it works like a charm. It checks all Shaymin and Gengar, and after a DD I beat Starmie and LO Suicune 1v1.
Here's how it goes down: I bring him on these omnipresent special attackers. Take a hit (even LO HP ice!) and dragon dance. This is where the speed EVs are important, the 6 spe version can be 2HKOd, whereas I can beat Starmie with 1 dance, Scarfgon with 2. Then I roost. Roost. Then I light screen. Now I am impervious to most special attacks. If I haven't been critted yet, I continue to dance/roost. With Heatran, Swampert, and Zapdos in tow, I can switch in on troublesome steel types. More of a threat checker, but really dangerous and difficult to KO. Without heal bell it loses to repeated status, but I'd rather check the majority of special attackers that rely on HP ice and unstabbed ice beam to KO Dragonite. Almost every special attacker is beat, with the exception of Starmie, who I need to have a dance on or have light screen already up to beat. Heatran with explosion also wins, but that's a given.
No changes really, I could run heal bell, but I have sub on Zapdos and rest on Swampert. I could also try a more offensive set, but this does really well in checking the special side of the metagame. The EVs are very important: 204 beats Starmie after a dance and Flygon after two, which makes it much easier to deal with these would be counters. Light screen makes up for the loss of SpD.
Swampert (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 174 HP / 224 Atk / 112 Spd
Adamant nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge
---
Swampy is here to deal with Tyranitar, a complete bastard to my recent specially based teams. Swampert beats the majority of Zapdos’ counters (Tyranitar, Wishrachi), and deals with some problems like Scarfgon, Metagross, and Jolteon.
I have changed the set to the choice band. It packs the direct punch my team lacked, and it still checks Jirachi and Tyranitar. With choice band, it can now check offensive Suicune, Machamp, Rotom (w/o WoW), and even Gyarados, who would set up on Swampert before. With 112 Spe, I beat most Skarmory, 3HKOing them and limiting them to 1 hazard, or none if I flinch them. Blissey is 2HKOd, Starmie is OHKOd. If I can "predict" correctly, I can nail Breloom on the switch, but this set sadly can't OHKO Shaymin and Celebi. Cursepert was prone to being set up on, and having a band helps a bit, but if I'm not careful enough things could get ugly if Nite gets free setup on an EQ. It's only true flaw is the speed; it usually has to take a hit before countering stuff which leaves it vulnerable to being revenge killed. I have to say though, despite those flaws, this set really impresses me with its coverage, typing, and power, scoring big damage against teams that expect the pathetic damage output from mixpert.
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Spd / 44 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Roost
- Toxic
---
This set is pretty cheap, I almost feel bad for my opponent. Almost. Gets up subs easily, then I just toxic and continue to spam sub and roost until they die. Behind a sub, I can pick off faster foes like Gengar and Starmie, and have complete control over slower foes. Most Heatran are 3HKOd, so they can only force me out once. Unless Tyranitar is a DD or curse version, it won’t beat me. Swampert handles them well. Scarf can force me out once, but once it gets toxified I can stall out its stone edges and wear it down quickly. CBtar, mixtar, tyraniboah, they all lose. The key to stopping this set is avoiding toxic: steels, rest talkers, natural cure, even magic guard. Most steels except Jirachi are beaten via repeated t-bolts, and Swampert beats most Jirachi. Dragonite handles the grass types, Metagross can stop Blissey, but without aromatherapy they will lose eventually. Poison/Grass types or Grass types that avoid toxic (Breloom) wall me but cannot defeat me, but they can set up easily. This very often “sweeps” the opposing team, moreso than any Lucario or Gyarados I’ve used in the past.
I couldn’t be bothered with toxic spikes, so I’ll sadly have to sacrifice HP ice. The set still functions, it just take longer to beat Flygon, and I lose to grass types. HP ice couldn’t really break Celebi anyway, it would just recover and switch. Breloom is just beat down by thunderbolt and stalled out of stone edge. The EVs just max speed and overall bulk, no need for much power. EVs changed as suggested to switch into SR more.
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So there it is. My team doesn’t really struggle much with any specific threat (maybe good stall a bit), I just lose to better and intelligent players, misplays and/or hax. Which is how it should be. Rates and advice appreciated, thanks.
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Considerations / Changes:
-I do have some problems with phazers like Skarmory that can utterly wall Dragonite/Swampert even though it is helped by giving Zapdos free setup and by having spin support...
-No one really has the power to deal alot of direct damage, I am considering a change to CBpert, LOtran, or even replacing pert with something that checks Tyranitar/Jirachi and has more power.
-Zapdos EVs changed
-Trick added to Metagross
-Swampert changed to the banded set.
-Heatran's EVs and item changed.
Yea, I'm still playing Gen 4, not much though. This will likely be the last gen 4 team I make, though I had a few goes at BW that weren't exactly fun, it's time to move on once the bans settle. Anyway, this team spawned from an old wishrachi team I updated from my other RMT. CMrachi just was not cutting it; too many Heatran and Flygon to deal with. I had a subroost (emphasis on the bro) Zapdos on the team and it worked really well so I figured I'll just start a new team with it. This is another common post mence team albeit a few rarities. I'm not going to go though team building that no one reads (or this intro) so here it is, exported right from the simulator (!!!)
------------
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
---
Starmie is....a great lead. It starts of the match with such an advantage, not to mention it pressures my opponent with rapid spin and the somewhat powerful hydro pump. Heatran, Metagross, Infernape, Azelf, ect are pretty common now, and Starmie either beats them, wrecks the switch, or goes to my own Heatran for rocks. Most Heatran don’t even stay so its free ice beams for their Flygon / Shaymin or other common crap you see on every team. Speaking of common, it’s really no wonder why this starfish is everywhere now. It requires little skill; just click the super effective move and wallah. But Starmie’s true goal is to stop stealth rock; keeping it off the field is crucial to this team.
Hydro pump over surf for power, KOing Scizor, Flygon, Lucario, and more! Ice Beam and Thunderbolt provide decent enough coverage. Rapid spin is very important because it can work in a pinch to get rid of rocks and spikes, which are very effective against my team. EVs are standard for an all out special attacker. Only considered changes are adding psychic to get a 50% chance of KOing Machamp, but I like to plan for the worst case scenario and can't afford to lose rapid spin or part of the boltbeam coverage.
Heatran (M) @ Passho Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Hp / 6 SpA / 252 SDef
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
---
Heatran is this teams weak link I suppose, but it needs to be here for stealth rock, resistances, check to Rotom and Scizor, ect. Nothing really new here. I just bring it in on stuff like Scizor or Metagross and stealth rock. Blast what I can, then boom, unless I need to check Scizor or something. I’ll be honest; I really don’t like this set because it isn’t very strong, and it has such a bad speed stat. Lots of crap can just waltz in with earthquake or close combat and deal tons of damage. I adjust my resist berry according to what I see alot of; I run chople mainly for Infernape, Lucario, Gengar, Machamp, ect. Resists berries are a real favorite of mine, the lesser known ones are so easy to abuse and so unexpected.
Set has been EV'd specially defensively. Helps big time with Gengar, Starmie, Jolteon, even Shaymin / Celebi. Gengar can't 2HKO me with focus blast + shadow ball most of the time. Starmie loses even with t-bolt + hydro pump due to passho. Jolteon can't 2HKO me with specs and SR. Shaymin and Celebi have a pathetic chance at an OHKO even with SR. Also helps against rain dancers which are rare and novice but can and have beat me badly. I left the moves; Fire blast makes up for the low SpA (lava plume does only 55% to 6 Hp Shaymin), and I kept explosion to deal with waters (still KOs Gyara after rocks), and to accomplish Heatran's true goal: SR and boom.
I am open to changes, but it needs SR. LO + SR just doesn’t work though. The resist berry can be changed as well as the secondary attack move. I’d rather keep explosion I can can get at least 1 KO. 32 Atk is for Blissey and a bit more sting. I am open to suggestions on any SR Heatran set. Name it, I'll try it. Moving on.
Metagross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunderpunch
- Trick
---
I use this set quite a bit now. It checks so much stuff, and with a bit of surprise too. Lucario, Gyarados, Dragonite, Gengar, Starmie, Kingdra, you name it. Great cleaner too with boosting Meteor Mash. This thing is stronger, less expected, and bulkier than Scarf Jirachi, not to mention has a better movepool. (EQ, Explosion, Pursuit). It’s goal is just to revenge stuff, get surprise KOs, then explode and get another free kill. Can’t even tell you how many Gengars I switch into and KO. Without sturdy steel resists, Meta commonly cleans up lategame with +1 / +1, and I can just beat my way past a team like SD Scizor. Meta here really pulls the team together; molti importante.
The last slot is really variable, I can run trick, Ice punch, even pursuit. Thunderpunch nets free KOs on Starmie, Meteor mash just beats down stuff that doesn’t resist it. EQ for coverage. EVs are needed to beat Adamant Gyarados, no option there. I'm thinking of running Jirachi with the same EVs and moves (iron head over meteor mash) for the speed and better ability to beat Scizor and flinch. Thoughts?
Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry / Yache Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Spd / 52 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Light Screen
- Roost
---
This set emulates Latias with surprising effectiveness. My older RMT with scarfgross was weak to the plethora of special attackers, and this set is one of the best checks to most of them, save Jirachi (which Meta beats most of the time). Really weird set, but it works like a charm. It checks all Shaymin and Gengar, and after a DD I beat Starmie and LO Suicune 1v1.
Here's how it goes down: I bring him on these omnipresent special attackers. Take a hit (even LO HP ice!) and dragon dance. This is where the speed EVs are important, the 6 spe version can be 2HKOd, whereas I can beat Starmie with 1 dance, Scarfgon with 2. Then I roost. Roost. Then I light screen. Now I am impervious to most special attacks. If I haven't been critted yet, I continue to dance/roost. With Heatran, Swampert, and Zapdos in tow, I can switch in on troublesome steel types. More of a threat checker, but really dangerous and difficult to KO. Without heal bell it loses to repeated status, but I'd rather check the majority of special attackers that rely on HP ice and unstabbed ice beam to KO Dragonite. Almost every special attacker is beat, with the exception of Starmie, who I need to have a dance on or have light screen already up to beat. Heatran with explosion also wins, but that's a given.
No changes really, I could run heal bell, but I have sub on Zapdos and rest on Swampert. I could also try a more offensive set, but this does really well in checking the special side of the metagame. The EVs are very important: 204 beats Starmie after a dance and Flygon after two, which makes it much easier to deal with these would be counters. Light screen makes up for the loss of SpD.
Just throwing this here for comparison. This is the set Dragonite attempts to emulate, as I used in in the past to check the special threats like Dragonite does. Sadly I can't use Latias on most servers, but oh well. Substitute is like the would be heal bell, and calm mind is like light screen, ect.
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 130 Hp / 126 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
-Calm Mind
-Dragon Pulse
-Substitute / Refresh
-Recover
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 130 Hp / 126 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
-Calm Mind
-Dragon Pulse
-Substitute / Refresh
-Recover
Swampert (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 174 HP / 224 Atk / 112 Spd
Adamant nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge
---
Swampy is here to deal with Tyranitar, a complete bastard to my recent specially based teams. Swampert beats the majority of Zapdos’ counters (Tyranitar, Wishrachi), and deals with some problems like Scarfgon, Metagross, and Jolteon.
I have changed the set to the choice band. It packs the direct punch my team lacked, and it still checks Jirachi and Tyranitar. With choice band, it can now check offensive Suicune, Machamp, Rotom (w/o WoW), and even Gyarados, who would set up on Swampert before. With 112 Spe, I beat most Skarmory, 3HKOing them and limiting them to 1 hazard, or none if I flinch them. Blissey is 2HKOd, Starmie is OHKOd. If I can "predict" correctly, I can nail Breloom on the switch, but this set sadly can't OHKO Shaymin and Celebi. Cursepert was prone to being set up on, and having a band helps a bit, but if I'm not careful enough things could get ugly if Nite gets free setup on an EQ. It's only true flaw is the speed; it usually has to take a hit before countering stuff which leaves it vulnerable to being revenge killed. I have to say though, despite those flaws, this set really impresses me with its coverage, typing, and power, scoring big damage against teams that expect the pathetic damage output from mixpert.
Swampert (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Hp / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, - SAtk)
-Curse
-Earthquake
-Avalanche
-Rest
The set is somewhat seldom now, but it can work in a pinch lategame. If Tyranitar or Jirachi or Heatran try and bother Zapdos, Swampert just switches in and stops them. Rest up if taken too much damage. Zapdos can toxic stall non rest Shaymin out in return.
Curse stops Scizor from U-turn wearing me, can set up lategame sweep against teams w/o grass left. Earthquake is the go to choice for STAB. Avalanche only works if I get hit first, so even if I nail Shaymin on the switch it only does around 30%, but it is essential for burying Flygon and hitting Rotom neutral. Rest + chesto is another favorite of mine, it keeps Swampert healthy for checking stuff. No changes really, this works well.
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Hp / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, - SAtk)
-Curse
-Earthquake
-Avalanche
-Rest
The set is somewhat seldom now, but it can work in a pinch lategame. If Tyranitar or Jirachi or Heatran try and bother Zapdos, Swampert just switches in and stops them. Rest up if taken too much damage. Zapdos can toxic stall non rest Shaymin out in return.
Curse stops Scizor from U-turn wearing me, can set up lategame sweep against teams w/o grass left. Earthquake is the go to choice for STAB. Avalanche only works if I get hit first, so even if I nail Shaymin on the switch it only does around 30%, but it is essential for burying Flygon and hitting Rotom neutral. Rest + chesto is another favorite of mine, it keeps Swampert healthy for checking stuff. No changes really, this works well.
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Spd / 44 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Roost
- Toxic
---
This set is pretty cheap, I almost feel bad for my opponent. Almost. Gets up subs easily, then I just toxic and continue to spam sub and roost until they die. Behind a sub, I can pick off faster foes like Gengar and Starmie, and have complete control over slower foes. Most Heatran are 3HKOd, so they can only force me out once. Unless Tyranitar is a DD or curse version, it won’t beat me. Swampert handles them well. Scarf can force me out once, but once it gets toxified I can stall out its stone edges and wear it down quickly. CBtar, mixtar, tyraniboah, they all lose. The key to stopping this set is avoiding toxic: steels, rest talkers, natural cure, even magic guard. Most steels except Jirachi are beaten via repeated t-bolts, and Swampert beats most Jirachi. Dragonite handles the grass types, Metagross can stop Blissey, but without aromatherapy they will lose eventually. Poison/Grass types or Grass types that avoid toxic (Breloom) wall me but cannot defeat me, but they can set up easily. This very often “sweeps” the opposing team, moreso than any Lucario or Gyarados I’ve used in the past.
I couldn’t be bothered with toxic spikes, so I’ll sadly have to sacrifice HP ice. The set still functions, it just take longer to beat Flygon, and I lose to grass types. HP ice couldn’t really break Celebi anyway, it would just recover and switch. Breloom is just beat down by thunderbolt and stalled out of stone edge. The EVs just max speed and overall bulk, no need for much power. EVs changed as suggested to switch into SR more.
-------------
So there it is. My team doesn’t really struggle much with any specific threat (maybe good stall a bit), I just lose to better and intelligent players, misplays and/or hax. Which is how it should be. Rates and advice appreciated, thanks.
------
Considerations / Changes:
-I do have some problems with phazers like Skarmory that can utterly wall Dragonite/Swampert even though it is helped by giving Zapdos free setup and by having spin support...
-No one really has the power to deal alot of direct damage, I am considering a change to CBpert, LOtran, or even replacing pert with something that checks Tyranitar/Jirachi and has more power.
-Zapdos EVs changed
-Trick added to Metagross
-Swampert changed to the banded set.
-Heatran's EVs and item changed.
