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OU BW OU Victim of the Week: Week 9 - Alakazam | Submissions Phase
- Thread starter Aether
- Start date
- Status
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Submissions Phase
Being a popular pick on many DragMag and Hyper Offence teams, Dragonite is a force to be rekoned with in the BW OU metagame. With strong priority in Extreme Speed, a powerful move in Outrage, and a way to deal damage to Ferrothorn in Fire Punch, Dragonite is often able to pull its weight and more in most matchups. It also sports good bulk, as well as decent defensive typing. Multiscale is also a factor in making Dragonite as good as it is, with it halving damage taken from moves when Dragonite is at full HP, making setting up much easier for the orange dragon. How will you deal with it?
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
Being a popular pick on many DragMag and Hyper Offence teams, Dragonite is a force to be rekoned with in the BW OU metagame. With strong priority in Extreme Speed, a powerful move in Outrage, and a way to deal damage to Ferrothorn in Fire Punch, Dragonite is often able to pull its weight and more in most matchups. It also sports good bulk, as well as decent defensive typing. Multiscale is also a factor in making Dragonite as good as it is, with it halving damage taken from moves when Dragonite is at full HP, making setting up much easier for the orange dragon. How will you deal with it?
The submissions phase will end on Thursday, February 24th at 11:59pm EST (GMT -5).
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
Lava plume threatens burns, WoW burns it and protect racks up burn damage on it while stealth rocks makes it so it is weakened each time it comes in to setup again. Even with lum berry you just hit 2 WoW and bam dragonite is now pretty much dead weight as heatran can now 1v1 it easily especially since it can take 2 outrages at +1 in a pinch
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 156-184 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
Lava plume threatens burns, WoW burns it and protect racks up burn damage on it while stealth rocks makes it so it is weakened each time it comes in to setup again. Even with lum berry you just hit 2 WoW and bam dragonite is now pretty much dead weight as heatran can now 1v1 it easily especially since it can take 2 outrages at +1 in a pinch
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 156-184 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mamoswine (M) @ Never-Melt Ice
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Icicle Crash
Ice Shard can RK Dragonite after any chip whatsoever, essentially assuring Dragonite cannot get any extra KOs after locking into Outrage or getting a KO so long as Mamoswine is out of +1 Espeed range. It also wins the 1v1 convincingly as Icicle Crash is does the trick into a 4x weak Pokemon. Mamoswine is a reliable check as it cannot switch in very well, but it always limits Dragonite, thwarting any sweeping prospects.
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Latios @ Choice Scarf
Level: 100
Timid Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Trick
- Dragon Pulse
Dragonite needs 3 DDs in order to outspeed Choice Scarf Latios, but in a BW's extremely fast-paced meta, this is a lot easier said than done. Granted, Latios obviously cannot switch into Dragonite directly, but with smart enough play you could get into a position where Nite would be forced out. I would set this as a check especially since this relies on good prediction to work.
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 88 HP / 44 Def / 144 SpA / 24 SpD / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Magma Storm
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
144+ SpA Heatran Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 312-368 (96.5 - 113.9%)
252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 88 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 101-119 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 5.3% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 88 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 150-177 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
Nominating lure hp ice Heatran as a counter. Heatran resists every move standard dragon dance dragonite uses so it can easily switch in and can easily dispatch it with hp ice once Multiscale has been broken with sandstorm chip or with stealth rock. The somewhat complicated ev spread gives more than 300 HP after rocks so you take 1 more Night Shade from Jellicent, lives adamant breloom mach punch after two round of rocks, which is something I've found useful on teams offensive variants of Heatran fit, while living an unboosted Keldeo Secret Sword and Surf, Latios Specs Surf from full and Alakazam Focus Blast after rocks. Offensive investment lets you 2hko max hp Reuniclus through leftovers with Magma Storm while outrunning + speed base 60s and neutral speed base 70s
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Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Ice
- Secret Sword
Nominating Scarf Keldeo as a check to Dragon Dance Dragonite. With Scarf Keld reaching a speed stat of 519, it requires Dragonite to be at + 3 speed (647) to be able to outspeed it. However, throwing your Keldeo into a Dragonite is borderline insane as Outrage from a neutral Dragonite is always 2HKO. However, being able to put your Keldeo in a scenario where it is able to force out the Dragonite out is a godsend as it helps with your team not being forced to take a presumed +1 Outrage.
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Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 19 Spe
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
Nominating Slowbro as a counter. With its enormous physical bulk, recovery move and Regenerator, it's one of the best things you can have against DD Nite, it even survives a Dragon Gem boosted Outrage.
+1 252+ Atk Dragon Gem Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 333-393 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (almost always dies when rocks are up tho)
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It is vulnerable to spikes tho, so you basically have to use it alongside a spinner (Mostly Excadrill) or a Magic Bounce user (Usually Xatu). And lastly, Dragonite has Multiscale so he will survive an Ice Beam. To compensate, you can use the Sand to nullify the Ability and have a good chance to kill.
4 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 272-324 (84.2 - 100.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
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Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 148 Atk / 108 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power/Dragon Claw
A large number of offensive Dragonites currently pair with Aerodactyl and/or Starmie, which makes having Stealth Rock up on the opposing team's side very difficult when Dragonite comes in. Dragonite is often the most reliable offensive threat on hyper-offense teams, so it will often be given free opportunities to set up over compatriots like Volcarona who also appreciate a Stealth Rock-less field.
Scarfed Kyurem-Black is normally given a pass because of its inability to deal with Alakazam without support, and being slower than most other common Choice Scarf users in the tier doesn't help either. However, its ability to efficiently knock out Dragonite even after a Dragon Dance thanks to Teravolt negating Dragonite's Multiscale ability gives it in my humble opinion a small niche on teams that are otherwise terrified of the portly orange dragon. Defeating Dragonite is guaranteed if the latter has already locked itself into Outrage for whatever reason, but otherwise it is forced out, unless it wants to trade for a +1 Extreme Speed on Kyurem-Black, who can survive even with full hazards (which is almost never the case, as hyper-offensive teams usually don't bother setting spikes) on the field:
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-Black: 164-193 (41.9 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The SpDef EV's allow Kyurem-Black to also stomach a +1 Bug gem-boosted Bug Buzz from offensive Volcarona, and allow it to perform some defensive utility for the team against Starmie.
Nominating scarfed Kyurem-Black as a check for hyper-offensive Dragonite.
Check: Mamoswine
Counter: Slowbro
Counter: Slowbro
Congrats to Finchinator for winning the checks, and oldcvcv for winning the counters of Week 4! Your submission will be added to the Hall of Fame Shortly!
The submissions phase will end on Thursday, March 3red at 11:59pm EST (GMT -5).
Submissions Phase
With an amazing defensive typing combined with a good ability, Rotom-Wash has been able to Volt Switch its way through the OU metagame since it was the current generation. Its no wonder it appeared on both teams in this SPL replay, as its decent defence, okay base speed, and amazing utility moves has allowed it to prove itself to be an annoying Pokémon to kill. How will you deal with this washing machine?
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
With an amazing defensive typing combined with a good ability, Rotom-Wash has been able to Volt Switch its way through the OU metagame since it was the current generation. Its no wonder it appeared on both teams in this SPL replay, as its decent defence, okay base speed, and amazing utility moves has allowed it to prove itself to be an annoying Pokémon to kill. How will you deal with this washing machine?
The submissions phase will end on Thursday, March 3red at 11:59pm EST (GMT -5).
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Refresh
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
Ok, I'm gonna make it short. Seismitoad typing of Water/Ground and ability Water Absorb makes it immune to both of Rotom-Wash's stabs. Will-o-wisp doesn't phase it as it has access to Refresh to stave it off. Scald is there to induce burn to chip Rotom. This is why I believe Seismitoad is a hard Counter to Spdef Washtom
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Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
Rotom-Wash cannot touch this with its offensive moves. Hydro Pump is absorbed by Storm Drain and Volt Switch is immunized by the Ground typing. Wisp can be lame, but between permanently walling it and having Toxic/Scald to induce status, Gastrodon is the epitome of a hard counter!
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Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Level: 100
Adamant Nature
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Power Whip
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
BKC already went through this in the BW OU Hub. The general idea is that, during T1s, Rotom-W tends to lead against Rain teams to burn Ferrothorn, thus making Excadrill's job of keeping hazards off much easier. With this set, however, Rotom-W is caught off guard and is OHKOed by Power Whip, meaning that you can start off strong against Sand. This is also quite useful against other bulky waters, especially Jellicent. Some critics would say that Rawst Berry would be better as Ferrothorn doesn't mind Paralysis as much as it does Burn, but there are some cases where Lum Berry can really save yourself from losing to bullshit such as the occasional Freeze or Para hax. I would nominate this as a counter considering that if this goes correctly it has tons of win potential.
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Nominating CB Kyurem as a check to SpDef Rotom
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Level: 100
Adamant/Jolly Nature
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
Outrage OHKO's SpDef Rotom, and nothing else wants to switch into Banded Outrage with SR save for an Impish Skarmory. Kyurem-Black is a good way to retake momentum/start putting pressure for offensive teams. This can be done after a KO (if you let a mon die to Rotom/SR) or off a pivot off a really slow Jirachi.
Both Adamant/Jolly OHKO Rotom with Banded Outrage, so the nature is mostly for handling other threats on Rotom's team; Adamant lets you guaranteed 2HKO SpDef Skarmory with SR up, while Jolly lets you outspeed neutral Speed base 100's and Thundurus-Therian, and other Adamant Kyurem-Black.
Other relevant calcs of just clickingOutrage the delete button:
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt
Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 244 HP / 176 Def 
Landorus-Therian: 240-283 (63.1 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 150-177 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def 
Reuniclus: 340-402 (80.1 - 94.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 224 HP / 32 Def 
Skarmory: 144-169 (44 - 51.6%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (will probably spam Roost)
Would have done a calc with defensive Gliscor but the calculator doesn't seem to be able to factor in Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def 
Gliscor: 244-288 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and toxic damage (Poison Heal)
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 244-288 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and toxic damage (Hyper Cutter)
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Level: 100
Adamant/Jolly Nature
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
Outrage OHKO's SpDef Rotom, and nothing else wants to switch into Banded Outrage with SR save for an Impish Skarmory. Kyurem-Black is a good way to retake momentum/start putting pressure for offensive teams. This can be done after a KO (if you let a mon die to Rotom/SR) or off a pivot off a really slow Jirachi.
Both Adamant/Jolly OHKO Rotom with Banded Outrage, so the nature is mostly for handling other threats on Rotom's team; Adamant lets you guaranteed 2HKO SpDef Skarmory with SR up, while Jolly lets you outspeed neutral Speed base 100's and Thundurus-Therian, and other Adamant Kyurem-Black.
Other relevant calcs of just clicking
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt
Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 244 HP / 176 Def Landorus-Therian: 240-283 (63.1 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt
Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 150-177 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt
Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 340-402 (80.1 - 94.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt
Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Skarmory: 144-169 (44 - 51.6%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (will probably spam Roost)Would have done a calc with defensive Gliscor but the calculator doesn't seem to be able to factor in Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt
Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 244-288 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and toxic damage (Poison Heal)252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt
Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 244-288 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and toxic damage (Hyper Cutter)Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Recover
Magic guard makes it so it doesnt care about WoW or hazards while it tanks hydro and volt switches and is able to CM up to +6 on it. Rotom can annoy it with pain split but its still setup fother and cannot do anything back to CM reuni
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 153-181 (36 - 42.6%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 90-106 (21.2 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 102-121 (24 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
These calcs show that even hydro + volt switch will just get outhealed and be used as setup fother if its already in on a free switch such as coming in on pain split and will o wisp which gives reuni free setup which pretty much no team wants to give
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Recover
Magic guard makes it so it doesnt care about WoW or hazards while it tanks hydro and volt switches and is able to CM up to +6 on it. Rotom can annoy it with pain split but its still setup fother and cannot do anything back to CM reuni
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 153-181 (36 - 42.6%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 90-106 (21.2 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 102-121 (24 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
These calcs show that even hydro + volt switch will just get outhealed and be used as setup fother if its already in on a free switch such as coming in on pain split and will o wisp which gives reuni free setup which pretty much no team wants to give
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Bitter Lemon (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 112 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Toxic / Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Water] / Roar
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 112+ SpD Zapdos: 69-82 (18 - 21.4%)
Zapdos, while relatively uncommon, is in my opinion an option for a pressure staller against offensively tame Pokemon, including Rotom-Wash, on teams that support it well. Volt Switch doesn´t even break Zapdos´ Substitute, while Hydro Pump has a measly 8 PP that are swiftly stalled out. Even if Zapdos gets burned by Will´o´wisp, it remains useful, as it can roost off the burn damage. The Def EV´s allow the Substitute to also survive unboosted Mach Punch from Breloom and Bullet Punch from Scizor, though a different benchmark in all honesty would probably be more useful.
Thunder is a decent upgrade over Thunderbolt for more damage and spreading paralysis, if used on rain teams. Toxic is probably the best move for the fourth slot, but may leave one walled by Gliscor and Reuniculus. Hidden Power Water is an option over Hidden Power Ice to facilitate the Excadrill match-up, while Roar can be good when used in combination with Toxic Spikes.
Generally, I think Kyurem is a better Pressure-staller than Zapdos, but Zapdos is there for a better Breloom and Scizor matchup.
uh..... kyurem is a counter? idt it likes taking burns at all lol... but Lum ferro and sub zapdos
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