Woop woop now people are using dialga kyogre cores XD
So this is what i should probably do to the team to bring it up to scratch:
I don't want this team to be focused on setting up TR any longer (a bit like Wolfe Glick's team) since there are still a lot more options that i could use out of TR since both legendaries are relatively fast, and it's still pretty darn difficult to stop a TR setter from the inevitable set up especially with Fake Out support. For some reason on most of my TR teams i keep on using ferrothorn+crobat+kangaskhan cores :/ (probably to boost my top 5 matchup)
Speaking of which,
'Top 5' Matchup ('pokemon+pokemon' in italics will generally only check something when used together)
Xerneas - 2 checks (Ferrothorn/Crobat)
Groudon - 2 checks (Kyogre/Salamence)
Kyogre - 2 checks (Dialga/Ferrothorn)
Rayquaza - 3 checks (Dialga/Salamence/Ferrothorn)
Smeargle - 1 check (Kangaskhan+Crobat or Dialga)
(This is a little checklist i do now for most vgc '16 teams just to see if i need to improve stuff)
Pretty balanced, got decent enough checks for each mon so I'm pretty happy with it. Let's look at the team
Changes in-depth:
Dialga @ Mental Herb
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 76 Def / 124 SpA / 60 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Trick Room
- Protect
A spread that i made up like just now, this will survive a max attack primal groudon precipice blades and also a max SpA eruption from it too. The SpD will also survive a draco meteor from max SpA mega rayquaza. The rest goes into SpA and speed for those speed creeps. Modest nature since dialga can be used either in or out of TR. Mental herb for the taunts that dialga is likely to come across:
- 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 236 HP / 76 Def Dialga: 170-204 (82.9 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 236 HP / 60 SpD Dialga: 176-210 (85.8 - 102.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
- 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Eruption (150 BP) vs. 236 HP / 60 SpD Dialga in Harsh Sunshine: 165-195 (80.4 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 SpA Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 236 HP / 60 SpD Dialga: 173-204 (84.3 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 SpA Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earth Power vs. 236 HP / 60 SpD Dialga: 161-190 (78.5 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 236 HP / 76 Def Dialga: 177-210 (86.3 - 102.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 76 SpA / 60 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Protect
Bit bulkier than my last spread, this is now my standard bulky kyogre spread for future reference. Water spout is for big damage, and scald for bypassing wide guard + burn chance. Here's what the EVs do:
- 76+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan in Heavy Rain: 184-217 (101.6 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Primal Kyogre: 153-180 (73.9 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 252 SpA Xerneas Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Primal Kyogre: 176-208 (85 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
- 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Primal Kyogre: 164-192 (79.2 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Primal Kyogre: 174-206 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Double-Edge
- Fire Blast
- Protect
Salamence>Mawile because of my next pick, it also means the team has a better chance against mega rayquaza and primal groudon which is super important whilst still providing intimidate support. Pretty bog standard set, does everything i need it to do, draco for rayquaza, double-edge for everything else and Fire Blast for ferrothorn.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
I swapped amoonguss out for ferrothorn since ferrothorn checks opposing primal kyogre better and is just a lot more offensive which fits my playstyle. The only thing is that i hate the shaky accuracy of power whip. In one game i think i was at -1 Atk up against a kyogre. Mfw I missed 3 power whips and got froze by ice beam..
Anyway the EV spread was suggested to me by Jibaku and is pretty great, it OHKOs most xerneas once they've set up with gyro and survives a bunch of stuff:
- 196 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 204-242 (100.9 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- +2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Ferrothorn: 82-97 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Ferrothorn in Heavy Rain: 76-90 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Crobat @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 68 HP / 188 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Super Fang
- Haze
- Tailwind
- Quick Guard
Crobat is the main nemesis of xerneas right now, haze is pretty annoying to deal with since it also removes moody boosts from smeargle support, as well as my own dialga/salamence's SpA drops. Don't really need taunt since kangaskhan will check most smeargle (apart from with quick guard) and taunt doesn't really affect most TR setters anyway. The EV spread is something i have been running for a while and haven't been bothered to change it after i added haze since it does most things i need it to do:
- 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 68 HP / 188 Def Crobat: 145-172 (85.7 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
- +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 68 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 142-168 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 68 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 72-84 (42.6 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Kangaskhan-Mega (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 188 Atk / 76 Def / 4 SpD / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Balanced Kang is my last pick, since i'm kinda uncomfortable about using fast/jolly kang on a Semi-TR team like this. The EVs are new, they survive a kangaskhan low kick and outspeed smeargle before mega. Adamant nature with the rest of the EVs in attack for decent output inside TR/TW. Protect is for when i need to check scarf smeargle + quick guard strategies, i would protect+tailwind turn 1 (with crobat) and double-edge/super fang or quick guard turn 2, only thing is it doesn't take into account if the opponent tailwinds or not, i guess if the opponent sees kangaskhan they would be inclined to use quick guard to stop fake outs in Bo1.
So thats the team :)
Again any constructive criticism is much appreciated
=======================================
Original RMT
It's the start of a new vgc season, and off the back of coming up with a pretty standard-looking vgc 2016 team in my last RMT, I thought it might be a good idea to see what combinations of pokemon can counter the most threatening looking mons in this new and developing metagame. The addition of many fast pokemon, like geomancy xerneas, mega rayquaza and mega mewtwo means the usage of trick room teams will see a rise, so i tried making a trick room team of my own to check this growth of fast mons.
At A Glance:
The first pokemon i thought of when full trick room came to mind was mega mawile. It has a fantastic matchup versus xerneas and mega rayquaza, getting the OHKO on both of them with decent bulk to boot, not forgetting vital intimidate support which is much appreciated in the PDon matchup
Next i wanted a trick room setter that could handle common threats in the meta. Shuca berry Dialga is fast becoming one of my favourite trick room setters, as its ability to hurt mega rayquaza and many other top tier threats with STAB Draco Meteor is unparalleled. A double steel core is fantastic defensively in many situations, and dialga also completes a Fairy/Steel/Dragon core which gives the team's type chart a well rounded appearance
Because the first two mons on this team are pretty weak to Primal Groudon, i needed a pretty solid check to it. Since primal kyogre is one of the best answers to PDon, and also gives mega mawile an immunity to fire, i thought it would be fitting for the core.
The core was still pretty weak to primal groudon, so i knew i needed a ground immunity as well as a fire immunity, so cresselia was added. Cresselia's access to skill swap and trick room solidified the core's potential further still, adding a secondary, more bulky trick room setter and a way to beat PDon very reliably (Skill swapping levitate onto POgre).
The team so far lacked support for setting up trick room, and after weighing up my trick room support options, i decided on amoonguss. Other options, such as scrafty didn't supply as much bulk and status support as amoonguss does. Its massive weakness to PDon isn't really appreciated on the team, but Primordial Sea alleviates this weakness a little. Apart from this weakness, i think amoonguss is a good addition to the team
The team so far consisted of very slow trick room abusers, so i decided to run TrickScarf latios as a fast mode, and i think it rounds out the team well, providing an answer to geomancy xerneas on the set up turn, as well as a soft check to mega rayquaza.
Then i realised they were all blue XD
gotta love that windows xp
the fantasy core works wonders here, adding more than one resistance to almost every type, but the open weaknesses to ghost and dark allow many trick room counters to exploit this weakness.
In Depth:
Mawile (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
(Technically not that blue, but her dress sort of is)
Not the most imaginative of spreads, 252+ Atk with 0 Spe IVs maximises her offensive potential whilst under trick room, and although the bulk investment doesn't allow for anything in particular, it gives mawile a respectable amount of bulk, nothing too crazy here like a massive SpDef investment. Play Rough and Iron Head are amazing STAB moves that offer some of the best STAB coverage in the game, OHKOing many top tier dragon and fairy types, and sucker punch is a great priority option, hitting mons like mega mewtwo Y for big damage
- 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 260-308 (116 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Rayquaza: 288-342 (160 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- -1 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 47-56 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 34.7% chance to 3HKO
- 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 228-270 (125.9 - 149.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- -1 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 116-140 (73.8 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dialga @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Trick Room
- Protect
This set is pretty much the special attacking version of mega mawile's spread, another 252/252/4 spread with 0 Spe IVs to optimise damage output under trick room, whilst underspeeding cress by 1 point (which i'll come onto later). Draco Meteor and Flash Cannon are pretty reliable STABs, which do a good chunk of damage to most relevant threats:
- 252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 270-320 (150 - 177.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 104 HP / 96 SpD Primal Groudon: 135-159 (71.8 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 170-204 (80.1 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- OHKOs most dragon types...
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 60 Def / 212 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Protect
This spread is a little more specific, as the standard 252/252/4 spread couldn't survive mega rayquaza's dragon ascent, so this is the adjusted version. Again, 0 Spe IVs underspeeds cresselia by 1 under TR, speed tying with dialga, which isn't the best, all it does is randomise who goes first which isn't necessarily a problem. The selected moves give POgre optimal BoltBeam coverage in rain and origin pulse is a great spread move, and is more reliable than water spout because of kyogre's speed.
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 236 HP / 60 Def Primal Kyogre: 173-204 (84.3 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Cresselia @ Mental Herb / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 8 Spe
- Helping Hand / Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap
Probably the most specific set on the team, the EVs allow cresselia to survive adamant +1 LO dragon ascent from mega rayquaza, whilst maintaining a good level of special bulk. 8 IVs in speed allow cresselia to outspeed both dialga and POgre in trick room by one point, so that it can safely skill swap levitate onto both of them. By using skill swap on POgre, it becomes immune to both of PDon's STABs, and also resets the weather in my favour. Sitrus Berry is probably the desired item here, as the amount of thundurus in this meta is going to decrease due to the introduction of PDon, the new (and 'improved' in some aspects) landorus-t that completely walls every thundurus set, so this would essentially mean that taunt might be a little rarer (i'm suspecting whimsicott might take thundurus' throne, who knows).
- +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 191-226 (84.1 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Cresselia: 162-192 (71.3 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 159-190 (70 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Cresselia: 165-195 (72.6 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Amoonguss @ Coba Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Grass Knot
- Protect
Since Mega Rayquaza is such a big threat to amoonguss, I decided to EV this set to survive a dragon ascent:
- 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156 Def Coba Berry Amoonguss: 187-220 (84.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The rest of the EVs are deposited into SpDef which gives amoonguss a very respectable amount of bulk. Having a Sassy nature meant amoonguss has 1 more point in SpDef than if it were a Relaxed nature, which is useful for optimising defence. Grass Knot is imo a better pick in this meta because of the introduction of POgre, and although grass knot is a 3HKO, it deals significantly more damage than giga drain.
EDIT:
Amoonguss @ Occa Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Grass Knot
- Gastro Acid
New amoonguss spread idea from CriclesAreRound operates better versus primal groudon.
"it lives a Pdon eruption if kyogre used ice beam against the primal groudon.It also lives precipice blades after doubles split. This allows u to gastro acid it and pick it off with kyogre".
EDIT:
Amoonguss @ Occa Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Grass Knot
- Gastro Acid
New amoonguss spread idea from CriclesAreRound operates better versus primal groudon.
"it lives a Pdon eruption if kyogre used ice beam against the primal groudon.It also lives precipice blades after doubles split. This allows u to gastro acid it and pick it off with kyogre".
- 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Overheat vs. 236 HP / 156+ SpD Occa Berry Amoonguss in Harsh Sunshine: 186-220 (84.9 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Fire]
My last pick, latios is probably my favourite looking dragon type that isn't mega rayquaza, and the trick scarf set is a nice fast mode to add to this trick room team as it adds a way to handle mega rayquaza, xerneas and PDon. Trick allows latios to effectively shut down virtually any set up sweeper, and is a niche way of permanently encoring opponents, and is even better if it is executed as trick room is set up, slowing opponents down dramatically. Hidden power fire is here to secure the team's matchup versus ferrothorn/scizor outside of primordial sea.
- 252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 222-264 (123.3 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 SpA Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 124-148 (68.5 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO :(
- 252 SpA Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 164-196 (93.1 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
EDIT:
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 4 SpD / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Taunt
New suggestion from DaAwesomeDude1 and serapis, banded talonflame accomplishes these benchmarks:
"Not only does it still function inside of Trick Room thanks to priority, but it also checks Amoonguss and Ferrothorn, both huge threats on your team that you don't have any reliable way of hitting for a lot of damage. You have ways of dealing with Xerneas and Mega Rayquaza already so removing Latios is perfectly fine to be honest. Talonflame is also able to clean off weakened Pokemon once Trick Room wears out."
The EV spread survives a brave bird from life orb talonflame from full health as well as outspeeding base 100s
Hope you like this team, I would appreciate any kind of constructive feedback :)
Thanks for reading
Edited Importable:
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 4 SpD / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Taunt
New suggestion from DaAwesomeDude1 and serapis, banded talonflame accomplishes these benchmarks:
"Not only does it still function inside of Trick Room thanks to priority, but it also checks Amoonguss and Ferrothorn, both huge threats on your team that you don't have any reliable way of hitting for a lot of damage. You have ways of dealing with Xerneas and Mega Rayquaza already so removing Latios is perfectly fine to be honest. Talonflame is also able to clean off weakened Pokemon once Trick Room wears out."
The EV spread survives a brave bird from life orb talonflame from full health as well as outspeeding base 100s
Hope you like this team, I would appreciate any kind of constructive feedback :)
Thanks for reading
Edited Importable:
Mawile (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Dialga @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Trick Room
- Protect
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 60 Def / 212 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Protect
Cresselia @ Mental Herb / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 8 Spe
- Helping Hand / Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap
Amoonguss @ Occa Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Grass Knot
- Gastro Acid
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 4 SpD / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Taunt
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Dialga @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Trick Room
- Protect
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 60 Def / 212 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Protect
Cresselia @ Mental Herb / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 8 Spe
- Helping Hand / Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap
Amoonguss @ Occa Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Grass Knot
- Gastro Acid
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 4 SpD / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Taunt
Last edited:
