Battle Spot Singles Viability Rankings

[Age of Kings]

Due to feedback and considering the circumstances (the singles thread is actually active), the singles viability thread will be its own thread. Further viability rankings will come in the future pending demand.

Since many have asked the viability rankings be used as a resource for new players to understand what is good in the Battle Spot metagame, the first post will be the viability rankings at a glance while post 2 will carry explanations of why said Pokemon belongs in the tier along with examples of what each Pokemon accomplishes. Veteran players may also use this as valuable discussion to discuss each Pokemon and their roles in the metagame using their experiences.

This thread largely concerns ranking Pokemon based on their effectiveness in the Battle Spot singles metagame. If you need help on how to defeat these threats, check out this thread.

Remember that this list is subjective. It is never a be-all end-all, nor should it be taken as a definitive list of things you will see on the ladder or that your teams should only include Pokemon on this list. You should, however, at least be prepared for everything listed here. All entries are always up for debate so if you have something to say, speak up with your case.

Bad/invalid arguments that should not be posted in this thread: “omg why is blank in B tier, this list sucks and ur dumb” that does not carry an accompanying argument. Seriously, it’s a pet peeve of mine when people post things like “why is X in this tier” without elaborating. Please don’t be “that guy”.

“This Pokemon is blank tier in Smogon tiers, therefore it’s not tiered properly here.” Not only is discussing Smogon tiers not allowed in this subforum, but Battle Spot singles is a completely different animal from 6v6 singles. A Pokemon’s viability in doubles, triples, rotation, or VGCs are also not relevant to singles. Keep the discussion solely on Battle Spot singles.

Anything regarding unreleased content. Believe me, I’m super excited for Mega Altaria too but if you can’t use it on the ladder right now, it’s not allowed to be discussed. No wishlisting like “this would be better if gems were in the game” either.

Always remember forum rules when discussing. Do not insult others or take disagreements as insults. Let’s do our best to make this an awesome resource for newbies and veteran trainers alike!

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Guidelines shamelessly borrowed from the OU viability rankings thread:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the Battle Spot singles metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Battle Spot singles metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Battle Spot singles metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the Battle Spot singles metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Battle Spot singles metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

Ranks A-D are additionally subdivided into rankings like A+, A, and A-. This is to give a better approximation of the relative order of each Pokemon within their grades.

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S-tier:

Mega Kangaskhan

Aegislash


A-tier:

A+

Azumarill

Garchomp

Mega Charizard X

Mega Charizard Y

Mega Gengar

Talonflame

A

Cresselia

Ferrothorn

Landorus (both)

Gyarados (both)

Mega Mawile

Rotom-W

Terrakion

Thundurus

Zapdos

A-

Breloom

Blaziken (both)

Hydreigon

Mega Lucario


B-tier:

B+

Greninja

Mega Manectric

Rotom-H

B

Mega Aggron

Mega Pinsir

Slowbro

B-

Sableye (not mega)

C-tier:

C+

Cloyster

Latios

C

Vivillon

Don’t find a Pokemon you were looking for here or don't agree with these? Write up an argument for what ranking you think it belongs in! For these preliminary ones, I have started with my own biases and Pokemon I’ve had experiences with and others will obviously differ.

 

[Age of Kings]

Explanation post: What is a rough idea of what each Pokemon does? How does it fit into the singles metagame?

S tier:

Mega Kangaskhan: Queen of XY, every team must carry bulky Rocky Helmet user, status, or something like Terrakion/Mega Luke/Blaziken to be prepared for it, preferably a combination.

Aegislash: Incredible typing and very good matchup against the majority of the metagame. Without STAB or boosts, it is very difficult to OHKO in Shield form and Weakness Policy sets are effective due to this. Learning to play around King’s Shield differentiates great players from the good ones. Aegislash is most commonly mixed with Weakness Policy but physical variants with Swords Dance, mixed or special with Substitute or purely special sets are viable.


A tier:

A+

Azumarill: Azumarill is strong and bulky with excellent typing; its STABs are resisted by very few. It is typically seen with Assault Vest with all attacking moves, though Choice Band or Belly Drum with Sitrus Berry are some other sets one should consider. Azumarill is slow, but it rarely matters because it is more than capable of taking a hit and KOing the opposition. If you are looking for a reliable Pokemon that can check nearly every Dragon, Dark, or Fighting Pokemon in the game while standing a chance against other commonly seen Pokemon, consider Azumarill.

Garchomp: A unique speed tier and well-distributed stats make Garchomp a perennial favorite though its movepool is fairly predictable. However, this predictability is no hinderance to Garchomp: its STABs complement each other well and make it difficult for even some Fairy Pokemon to wall. Some popular Garchomp sets include Choice Scarf and Swords Dance with either Focus Sash or a resist berry. As of late, Garchomp has had some use as a utility Pokemon, with Rock Tomb a common choice as speed control to cripple enemy switch-ins.

Mega Charizard X: Great typing, versatility, and matchups against many Pokemon in the metagame. Charizard X is fairly versatile and can run bulky DD, all-out offensive DD, and defensive WoW+Roost – not to mention that getting Charizard on the field in the first place results in a prediction game for the opponent to guess which Mega you’re packing.

Mega Charizard Y: Sun-bolstered STAB and insta-Solarbeam off 159 SpA shortens its list of checks that avoid getting roasted before they can strike back. Charizard Y functions well alone with its “portable sun” complimenting its moveset well and does not need to run with a dedicated Sun team.

Mega Gengar: Mega Gengar is a wonderful trapper and abuses Shadow Tag very well with a blazing fast speed tier, great offenses, and Destiny Bond to remove enemy threats. If it can’t take something with its offenses or Destiny Bond, it will cripple the enemy Pokemon with Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, or even Perish Song.

Talonflame: Talonflame is mostly known for spamming Brave Bird but with some of the strongest priority in the game doing a ton of damage to so many Pokemon, it deserves its status. Talonflame compliments this with Flare Blitz to take out Steels that may resist Brave Bird but this is by no means a necessity. Talonflame often runs moves like Roost, U-turn, and even Will-O-Wisp to extend its tenure and make sure that any engagements with the enemy will be on the Talonflame’s terms.

A

Cresselia: Cresselia is one of the bulkiest defensive Pokemon available in the tier and a dangerous threat on its own due to versatile access to status, sustain, and Lunar Dance on the way out to completely heal a badly injured ally. Rocky Helmet is particularly effective due to Cresselia’s colossal defenses and immunity to the most common non-contact physical move, Earthquake.

Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn's excellent typing allows it to function as a check against popular Pokemon such as Kanga, Garchomp, Tyranitar, and Azumarill. It can throw a wrench into most popular FSD (Fairy-Steel-Dragon) cores as well. Standard Ferrothorn typically runs Gyro Ball / Power Whip / Leech Seed / Protect, but Knock Off or Thunder Wave should be considered for extra utility to threaten the opponent beyond STAB. Ferrothorn's abysmal speed and complete helplessness against Charizard, Heatran, and Talonflame can be exploited, but overall the Singles metagame is a friendly place for Ferrothorn and its users.

Landorus-I:

Mega Mawile: One of the best Megas in the game, cripples the enemy upon switch-in with Intimidate and is backed some incredible STAB, power, and defensive typing. Mawile may run Swords Dance or opt for a non-boosting route; Sucker Punch and Play Rough are staples that should be run on nearly every set. However, Mawile is does carry some risk because switching it in is more situational than usual because the base form is so weak.

Rotom-W: Rotom is popular as a defensive behemoth due to its few exploitable weaknesses and positive match-ups against a variety of top tier Pokemon. Many of Rotom-W's best niches include WoW, Trick, and being an excellent defensive pivot with Volt Switch, often combining its best assets onto one set if it needs to.

Terrakion: Terrakion is fast, strong, has decent bulk, and has great STAB; what more could you ask for? It also carries the distinction of being one of the few Pokemon in the game who can go toe-to-toe with Mega Kanga and outmuscle it, as well as being able to punish Knock Off spam. Swords Dance, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, or even Assault Vest: Terrakion can run the gamut of offensive sets effectively. The unifying element to these is the devastating dual-STAB of Close Combat coming off base 129 Attack and Stone Edge (for power) or Rock Slide (for accuracy or flinching).

Thundurus: Thundurus is one of the most versatile Pokemon in the format. If you’re looking for offensive prowess, Thundurus offers Nasty Plot or even a mixed set with Defiant. If you’re looking to annoy and cripple your opponent, you can run sets containing Taunt, Thunder Wave, or even Swagger. Any set may choose to utilize priority Substitute to block status. There is no one “best” Thundurus set but what is clear is that Thundurus can abuse Prankster very well to shut down enemy offensive Pokemon and defensive threats alike to get an edge.

Zapdos: Zapdos is the nemesis of several popular offensive Pokemon, such as Talonflame and Azumarill. Unlike Rotom-W, Zapdos does not have as much of a problem with Mega Gyarados. It has reliable bulk with some offensive power added in, along with Roost to keep itself alive on the field. Zapdos is an all-purpose Pokemon that can be a dependable choice for a team, especially one that likes bulky offense.


A-

Breloom: While Breloom has trouble with several common Pokemon preventing higher placement, with Focus Sash it is extremely easy to get Spore off and wreak havoc on the opponent with Technician-boosted Bullet Seed, Mach Punch, and Rock Tomb.

Blaziken (both): Blaziken is not a bad Pokemon; on the contrary, Speed Boost in tandem with a fantastic movepool makes it extremely threatening. If Blaziken chooses not to stay on the field, it can use Baton Pass to give its boosts to an ally. Blaziken most commonly runs its Mega form, but is effective with Focus Sash, Life Orb, or a berry depending on the set if you already have another Mega. However, Blaziken is hindered by frailty and unreliable STAB (READ: RECOIL) that can cut its time on the field short. Its checks are also fairly plentiful between Talonflame, Azumarill, and Gyarados. Blaziken requires team support and good prediction, but is by no means unviable.

Hydreigon: Hydreigon is one of the better special-based Dragon types available. Although it has common weaknesses and a middling speed tier, Scarf or Specs Draco Meteor along with excellent coverage is extremely potent. Due to its great coverage and lesser vulnerability to priority moves like Sucker Punch, Hydreigon is typically used as a revenge killer.

B tier:

B+

Greninja: On the surface, Greninja looks amazing. It has STAB on every move along with great coverage, it's fast, and can provide valuable momentum and pressure. However, Greninja's two best sets (Sash and LO) both have major weaknesses. Sash lacks a lot of power even with Protean, while LO exposes Greninja's poor defenses and still does not give it the power to defeat the very bulky higher tier Pokemon. Greninja can make an effective revenge killer or late game cleanup, but do not rely on it solely for power.

Mega Manectric: Manectric doesn't quite have the power of the other Megas, but Intimidate, blistering speed, and being a scary offensive pivot warrants it some consideration. Manectric is in B-tier not because it's bad, but the other Megas are better.

Rotom-H: Rotom-H may not be run on the same team as Rotom-W due to species clause; therefore, Rotom-W is usually run over Rotom-H. Rotom-H has several niches over Rotom-W, including the ability to check Charizard-Y and checking every Grass-type not named Venusaur. Rotom-H can typically run the same sets as Rotom-W with Overheat instead of Hydro Pump, but Specs remains its most popular set.

B

Slowbro: Slowbro is a durable physical tank with good sustain and access to status moves. However, despite the fact that it has fairly good coverage, it does not bring much offensive presence to a team and common weaknesses (especially to Knock Off) can be a hinderance to its walling capabilities. Slowbro isn't a bad choice for a team, but it is often set aside for Cresselia or Porygon-2 because they fit in the meta better.

C tier:

C+

Cloyster: The one and only set Cloyster should run is Shell Smash, and in Cloyster's favor, it is able to set up on quite a few Pokemon in a tier oriented towards physical Pokemon with a Defense stat of 180. Cloyster has fairly good sweeping potential with just one move, and for icing on the cake, Skill Link with multi-hit moves breaks Substitute, destroys Focus Sash, and nullifies abilities like Sturdy. However, Cloyster has some crippling flaws, namely special defense stats equal to Bonsly and Karrablast. It's far from being the most effective Pokemon in the metagame but can punish the unprepared foe.

Latios: XY has not been very kind to Latios. While it keeps its speed and power, neither of those cut it anymore. Fairies are everywhere, Dragon Gem is gone, it doesn’t deal well with newcomers like Aegislash, Talonflame & several Megas, and Dark moves like Sucker Punch and Knock Off are on many popular Pokemon. If you are determined to run Latios, Specs Draco Meteor is a potent nuke, whereas Calm Mind helps its offensive prowess and staying power or Trick with a Choice item can cripple the enemy.

C

Vivillon: It might be strange to see Vivillon ranked so "high", but it is deceptively powerful with Compoundeyes Sleep Powder disrupting anything slower than it to get a few Quiver Dances off. Seeing that it is faster than half the top 12 on the PGL rankings statistics, that list is not short. Vivillon is obviously very fragile and still doesn't hit the hardest after a Quiver Dance (though +1 Hurricane hurts), but it can be very satisfyingly effective against an unprepared opponent.

 

[Age of Kings]

Sample Pokemon to guide further discussion: (though these are by no means the only ones, I’m just giving examples for discussion topics)

Bisharp

Chansey

Cloyster

Conkeldurr

Gengar

Greninja

Gyarados (both)

Heatran

Hippowdon

Klefki

Landorus (all forms)

Politoed

Porygon2

Rotom-H

Sableye

Scizor

Scolipede

Sylveon

Thundurus-T

Tornadus (all forms)

Tyranitar

Venusaur (all)

Dragons: Latias, Dragonite, Mence, Hydreigon'

this is also a reserved post in case we need an extra one in the future.


Thread is open now, time for discussion!

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I'm in the 1400s on Showdown's Singles Battle Spot with a Cloyster right now. I love it to death, but I think I'm using it about as effectively as I can, and it has to be C-tier. It can sweep games, but it needs super-dedicated support.

Your options are to either go with the Focus Sash variant, which I think is largely a joke with the amount of priority and Prankster in the metagame, or give it the support it needs which is, in my experience:

Dual Screens + Lum Berry. I also like to set it up with Memento (hello, Uxie) to ensure a switch or paltry attack on the turn it Shell Smashes.

That set up can absolutely win you a game. Nearly everything is either a OHKO or 2HKO, and most of the 2HKOers lack a way to KO you back behind screens. That said, you still have to look out for things like Rotom-Wash and even Porygon2.

It's by no means a bad Pokemon. It can be an extremely deadly setup sweeper. 3 vs. 3 is also a much deadlier format for it than 6 vs. 6 for the lower probability of seeing its counters in a match. But for the amount of support it needs and the number of matchups where you need to think twice about even bringing it, I wouldn't put it any higher or lower.

 

[Hulavuta]

Okay, let me add a few as well.

To start off, I'll nominate Hydreigon in B or B+ tier. It's probably the best Specs user that I can think of, nothing can really switch into it if it uses the right move. It is a really good team player, Specs Draco Meteor destroys really annoying Pokemon like Sableye and Rotom-W that will burn all of your physical attackers. It doesn't that great of bulk, but it does have good immunities to Psychic and Ground to come in on. It's best paired with something that has U-turn or Volt Switch to get in and unleash Draco Meteors that pretty much destroy anything besides Fairies and Chansey/Blissey. Allegedly it is very popular with the Japanese at the moment.

As for Greninja, I'd place him pretty low, maybe C rank or something. Maybe I'm just using him incorrectly but he doesn't really do it for me. He is super frail so he offers nothing to the team defensively, which is bad when you only have three teammates to take the hits. This is made worse by the fact he really can't OHKO anything except Dragons, and can't even scratch Chansey. Anything that can take a hit from him can destroy him with their next hit, and he's major set-up fodder for Mega Mawile. Love this frog and I hope he's good in SSB4 but I am not a fan of him in Battle Spot.

I'd put Slowbro up for B-Rank, he is an excellent physical check to a lot of Pokemon. Regenerator is so useful in 3v3 when he needs to be taking a lot of the hits. Skarmory gives him competition but he sets himself apart by actually being able to attack while also having different resistances. He can kill Garchomp with Ice Beam for example, and he is also able to check Infernape and Blaziken better than Skarmory can as he resists their STABs.

That's all I have so far, feel free to agree/disagree. No comment on Cloyster since I've never used him D:

 

[Deleted User 220884]

I'd like to Nominate Bisharp for A-. Simply because in Battlespot singles literally no is prepared for it. With lots of people using eviolite Dusclops/Porygons it eliminates them with ease(Knock Off +Iron Head kills porygon, and Subsitute+Knock Off kills Dusclops, since it will try to burn you.) I've used Bisharp, and it made me one of the best single players in my country on Battlespot ranking using it. Thing's like Latios are forced to switch out, or be KO'ed by sucker punch. With defiant, things like Mawile and Gyarados are forced to attack you right away, since your getting a +1 boost. Though mega Gyara is a check, +1 with life orb sucker punch does some decent damage. Cresselia is also doesn't want to versus Bisharp aswell. Despite that, Breloom, Blazikan, Conkeldurr, Lucario, any fighting type can literally kill this thing. Talonflame is a good partner for this guy, since it resists fighting and gets Guaranteed KO's on all these pokemon.

Edit: Aegislash usually gets KO'ed by Bisharp's knock off. Since most people expect Night Slash they hesistate to KS most of the time (people should know defiant), and they lose their Aegislash. In all my experiences in Battle Spot, I got easy KO's, on these pesky swords. Generally they run Weakness Policy, for some reason. Though I think Air Balloon is better, since things like Garchomp and Excradrill are forced to use Rock Slide or use any contact moves they have.

 

[EnGarde]

Continuing off of Hulavuta's post,

I'm comfortable with hydreigon in B+. It has a favorable matchup against aegislash (at least for revenge-killing or lead matchups):

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 156-186 (93.4 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

And aegislash can't OHKO in return without an attack boosting item:

252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 136-162 (68.3 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The biggest disadvantage not already mentioned is that it doesn't have a very good matchup with other dragons (the latis, garchomp, and salamence in particular, all of which outspeed and can OHKO with draco meteor or outrage), plus a 4x weakness to fairies, though, the distribution of fairy-type moves is still low enough that it has some room to work.

 

[Campaign]

I'd agree with rank B for Hydreigon. Not the tankiest pokemon but due to his typing he

can swap into a lot of common attacks and take 1/2x resist in addition to immuning psychic and ground (through Levitate). His Sp.Atk isn't amazing but he has a fantastic move-pool and the ability to swap out with U-Turn. Fairy is a big problem, as they can swap a fairy into your Draco Meteor, taking no damage and forcing you to swap (Probably eating a Moonblast or Play Rough when you swap) but I don't think you'd bring him along if they have an Azumaril or something on their team anyway. And if you know they have a fairy in their 6, you would probably go for a Thunderbolt (if Azu) Fire Blast (if mawhile). If no fairy he can just wreck with Draco.

Disagree with Greninja at such a low rank. He outspeeds a large portion of the meta and with focus sash can easily revenge kill Charizard-Y, MegaVenasaur, Sashed Garchomp, Aegislash (without SS) and a ton of others. I do feel that without focus sash, he's just too weak and doesn't have high enough Sp.Atk (even with Protean) to really offer much other than the uncommon life-orb sweep. I'm not sure what I'd rank him, maybe somewhere between B- and B+.

I'd agree with a B- or B ranking for Slowbro. Regenerator is rediculous and he makes a fantastic Sp.Def or Def tank, solid move-set and great stall potential and swap-in potential.

As far as the others go, Heatran and Veno should be rank B+ to A. Heatran can fill multiple roles, Sp tank, sweeper, lead status/hazard setter. Can stall like a motherfucker, has steel STAB for murdering fairies and can swap into just about anything. With Air Balloon he can swap into EQ then outspeed a lot of EQ users to either kill or swap back out to your third pokemon. Flash fire lets you swap out your pokemon that are weak to fire. Venasaur for obvious reasons, we've all seen what he can do. Amazing ability to stall with thick fat, sleep powder, leech seed, giga drain, sludge bombs, can take out threats with HP fire or EQ, can survive even the strongest psychic attacks. Sadly is weak to Talonflame but almost everyone carries a Rotom, HP Rock Heatran or something these days to counter Talon anyway. Hurricane Noivern being a strong counter, however you're almost guaranteed a miss.

Continuing off of Hulavuta's post,

I'm comfortable with hydreigon in B+. It has a favorable matchup against aegislash (at least for revenge-killing or lead matchups).
And aegislash can't OHKO in return without an attack boosting item.

Physical attacker Aegislash will (very likely) however KO, you with Weakness Policy boosted Sacred Sword followed by priority Shadow Sneak. Still agree, not a huge threat since most Aegislash are Quiet/mixed.

 

[Age of Kings]

Not updating OP yet because my philosophy towards this is similar to the CCAT thread, waiting to see a solid consensus without doubt or objections before posting anything up. I want everyone's voice to be heard but also discussed.

I've been thinking about some of the things I listed as far as grades, let me know if I'm being too generous:

What is A+ imo:

Azumarill
Unless your team is absurdly Venusaur or Ferrothorn-weak, Azumarill is almost always a positive addition to any team. I guess I’m biased because whenever I hit a teambuilding block, I can throw in Azumarill as filler and it is never deadweight. This thing just does its job so well and against so many Pokemon in the meta.

Charizard X
Charizard Y
Not only do Charizard X/Y have many positive qualities of their own and both are very strong in the meta, but Charizard the base form forces your opponent to engage in a dangerous guessing game trying to determine which Mega it is. Forcing prediction games on the opponent makes it worthy of A+ tier.

Talonflame
On paper it looks to be more A than A+ material, but in practice it hits very hard whether you run CB or Sharp Beak while additionally one of the best pivots in the format. Like Kanga, Talonflame usually needs to be baited into taking more recoil than it needs to, such as to a Rocky Helmet mon. Can also run viable "surprises" like Tailwind, WoW, Taunt, or SD.


A imo:

Mega Mawile
Mawile’s main flaw in comparison to the rest of the A tier is that because 3v3 allows for less switch-in opportunities, its weak base form is a liability even with Intimidate. From personal experience and watching high rated players, Mawile is often sent out after a KO or as a lead. I feel that Mawile’s base form makes it a little bit less reliable because it compromises switch-in opportunities. However, this technicality only bumps Mawile down to A tier rather than A+ tier.

Terrakion
Terrakion is one of my favorite Pokemon in competitive battling but I think A or even A- at worst is fair because in spite of its sheer amount of stats, it is also a little more easily walled in comparison to other offensive threats. If it doesn't have EQ, Aegi and Mawile shit all over it (Mega Scizor kicks its ass anyways), without boosted X-Scissor it can't really hurt Cress enough. If it has all coverage moves, then it needs LO or Band to really shine. It doesn't need a boosting item or Adamant to OHKO Kanga though (sans like only a 19% chance to survive with 252 HP).

Rotom-W
Its versatility, burn, and lack of common weaknesses makes it very annoying, and people anticipating status might be Tricked instead. A instead of A+ because Rotom is prone to capitulating to neutral nukes and has no reliable sustain.


B+ imo

Blaziken (both)
Blaziken has a diverse movepool but often doesn’t run much other than STAB / Protect / coverage filler or BP due to 4mss and lack of opportunity to SD. Blaziken’s case is very much one of “hostile meta” especially since some of its best checks (Azumarill, Talonflame, and Charizard, Gyarados even or Cress depending on what it is using for coverage) are in the top 12 in the PGL. It actually is the #7 most used Pokemon according to the PGL which attests to its efficacy but I don’t believe it has what it takes to survive in top tier play.



Regarding the other proposed Pokemon....

On Cloyster:
Fine with C-tier, I think it's C+ imo because there are a few mons it can get Shell Smash up on. Anyone else with input?

Disagree with Greninja at such a low rank. He outspeeds a large portion of the meta and with focus sash can easily revenge kill Charizard-Y, MegaVenasaur, Sashed Garchomp, Aegislash (without SS) and a ton of others. I do feel that without focus sash, he's just too weak and doesn't have high enough Sp.Atk (even with Protean) to really offer much other than the uncommon life-orb sweep. I'm not sure what I'd rank him, maybe somewhere between B- and B+.

As much as I hate Greninja, I've got to agree that it can wreck an unprepared player. I don't think C is entirely appropriate, so I would agree with B or B-. Even with LO and Protean though, it can find itself short of nabbing KOs and has some good checks among commonly used mons.

On Hydreigon:
Against it: slow and its bulk is rendered negligible because of its absurd amount of common weaknesses. For it: skilled players always have some way to find it useful. I will agree with B largely because it must be built around and have speed control but I can totally see its merits.

On Bisharp:
While I agree Bisharp is strong, I would recommend it for B or B+ instead of A- because matchups matter in tiering and it has poor matchups with many of the subjective top tier Pokemon here and with the most common Pokemon on the ladder. I would like to add that it has a massive advantage over Cress, but overall, I argue that it has situational use. However, since you're the Bisharp expert and it seems Hula agrees with you, let me know how you address those.

On Slowbro:
I support B tier. B- is just a tad too low because if the opponent isn't running the "right" things, it can stay on the field for a long time. Sustain on good defensive Pokemon are few and far between and it even gets Flamethrower so even Steels can't shit on it.

As far as the others go, Heatran and Veno should be rank B+ to A.

Agreed with both in A or A- tier tbh.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Re: Cloyster, I'd be comfortable with a C+ as well, based on its damage potential with a single setup move. There is a reason to use it; it's just not super-duper easy.

 

[Hulavuta]

Re: Greninja, I'd be fine with B- rank. I actually meant to nominate Slowbro for B Rank, I just hyphenated it so it looked like I mean B- Rank rofl.

As for Venusaur, I don't think there is any way it's not A rank, that thing is just too bulky.

 

[Jibaku]

Hi I used to play this a lot and still look around in japanese blogs and such for a general picture of the metagame. I'll drop in a few cents

Blaziken should be in A. It still does a ridiculous amount of damage (both Azu and Talonflame will take noticeable chunks) and the threat of Baton Pass is scary due to its capabilities as an offensive Pokemon masking it. Getting access to Knock Off on Pokebank's release also did a lot to help it deal with Rocky Helmets from stuff like Cress and Slowbro. Pay attention to teams with Blaziken + Kangaskhan - this is the most common pairing for Baton Pass Blaziken. Also, from my past experiences with Life Orb Blaziken, the recoil isn't really a big deal. The metagame's fast pace and Blaziken's already "do or die" playstyle are enough to cover it.

Nominating Zapdos for A. Recall that the Battlespot format favors all-around Pokemon over specialized ones due to the limited teamslots. Zapdos is the perfect example of a strong all-around Pokemon. Often sporting a Rocky Helmet and a defensive spread, Zapdos is valuable as a check to the likes of Talonflame (watch out for cb flare blitz), Azumarill, Mega Pinsir, Lucario, and does an okay job against Mega Kangaskhan. It also does a fair amount of damage on the offensive. Even with no investment, it has enough offense and coverage to give a lot of Pokemon a run for their money (Electric/Fire/Ice can always be counted on. Or it can use Electric/Fire/Toxic) Advantages over Rotom-W include access to reliable recovery, resistance to Fighting, and stronger stalling abilities.

Tyranitar for A. Unmatched versatility, unique resistance combinations (Fire/Ghost/Flying resist combo has definitely saved me a few times in teambuilding issues), Sandstream, and again, unmatched versatility. Tyranitar is a ranged, melee, tanky dps, assassin, mage, tank, support, jung....er he offers so many possibilities for your team. Notice how much I stressed this point. Devastating Dragon Dancer, solid defensive support, strong scarfer, and high surprise value with its special attacks. Oh and he even checks Talonflame (watch out for WoW). Still, a massive list of weaknesses prevent it from going into S tier.

Porygon2 for B. With only one weakness, a 'rare' resistance to Ghost, and Cresselia-level bulk, Porygon2 is a solid choice for an all-purpose wall. Access to Foul Play definitely help a lot. and so does its Trace ability. It can easily hold its own against some of the top tier attackers in the metagame, such as Mega Kangaskhan (Tracing Parental Bond + using Foul Play = RIP Kanga), SD Scizor, Talonflame, Garchomp, and Aegislash. Tracing Poison Heal from Gliscor has its uses too, along with some more obscure uses of tracing immunity abilities like volt absorb. However, Porygon2's versatility isn't great and it suffers from Knock Off, and its offensive and supporting capabilities aren't really something to write home about, preventing its placement in A. Furthermore, it lacks resists, but often times you can get away with that due to its sheer bulk.

Vivillon for C. Okay I hope I'm not the only one seeing this, but Vivillon is legitimately dangerous. In a Sleep Clauseless metagame, Vivillon's skillset can easily checkmate teams. 97.5% accurate Sleep Powder, combined with Substitute and Quiver Dance allow it to set up on a lot of things and then wreak havoc with Hurricane (which hits Grass types SE so dont even think about sending your Venusaur to counter the Sleep Powder), while Leftovers allow it to do this stunt practically forever.. It does run into some issues though. Random Sleep Talks are annoying, and SR+Roar Heatran/TTar make sweeping impossible. Vivillon is a very binary Pokemon, either being somewhat easily hardcountered, or can take down an entire team by itself the moment it gets a free switch in.

C tier for Latios is reasonable.

 

[DittoCrow]

Porygon2 for A Rank. Porygon2 is one of the best walls in the singles metagame imo. It checks so many common threats such as Aegislash, Azumarill, Garchomp, Dragonite, and Gengar. Trace is also amazing in this metagame, since Porygon2 can counter things like Manectric, Heatran, Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Gyarados. I've even swept with Porygon2 after tracing Speed Boost from Blaziken. It also beats a ton of less powerful special attackers like Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Greninja. You also have a great chance of crippling the opponent through Tri Attack or Discharge, which is really helpful. Jibaku I don't think its versatility is a problem when it walls so many threats and has good coverage. Also, I've only had Eviolite Knocked Off once in about 70 games; it isn't that common of a move. This definitely needs to be in A- rank at least.

Hydreigon should be in B+ at least. A few of you have been commenting on the Choice Specs set, but I've been using the Scarf set which works out great as a lead and revenge killer.

Mega Lucario for A+. Mega Lucario is one of the most threatening sweepers. I've been using the physical set with SD, EQ, and Bullet Punch and it's amazing how much power this thing has. It plows through offensive teams, and vs defensive teams, it can either tear holes for a teammate or clean up a weakened team. Mega Lucario is definitely one of the most anti-meta mons atm and I think it deserves A+ Rank.

Nidoqueen for B or B- Rank. Nidoqueen is another mon that I've been using recently, and it's definitely a viable Ground-type. It has enough bulk to take HP Ices from Electric-types like Zapdos and Manectric and its rarely OHKOed. It also has amazing coverage which allows it to hit most of the top Pokemon super effectively. Aside from that it's a great Fairy-type check, it just suffers from lower Speed.

I would comment on/add a lot more Pokemon but I'm too lazy to type up reasoning @_@

 

[Deleted User 220884]

On Bisharp:
While I agree Bisharp is strong, I would recommend it for B or B+ instead of A- because matchups matter in tiering and it has poor matchups with many of the subjective top tier Pokemon here and with the most common Pokemon on the ladder. I would like to add that it has a massive advantage over Cress, but overall, I argue that it has situational use. However, since you're the Bisharp expert and it seems Hula agrees with you, let me know how you address those.

Well, it depends on your opponent's team. Bring pokemon that you can think will do good in a battle. It may not get A-, but I think it deserves to be it. Or it's just how I uses this pokemon as an A Material.

Now on to this guy..
Breloom for B+ or A-. Easily it dispatches Rotom Wash, with Technician Bullet Seed, Quaqsire, Suicuine, Slowbro don't like taking a spore + Bullet seed combos. If Focus Sash is intact, Talonflame and Zard-Y's that decide to attack with be eliminated with Rock Tomb. Tyranitar doesn't like switching in, or Bulky Heatrans (From what I see from JPN kids) don't like taking multiple Mach Punches. Porygon2 gets spored easily, and spam bullet seed until it dies. Gyarados (and mega) don't like taking a spore or bullet seed (and Mach Punch if mega). Greninja doesn't like to take Mach Punch or Azumarill taking a bullet seed. It plays mind games with Thunderus, as they either taunt you (spore) or attack you. Rock Tomb will kill it anyway.

 

[Erebyssial]

Good to see this, I could post my opinion a lot of these but for now I'll just do a few pokes I've been using or seen a lot lately

Mega Gengar: S
This could go either way, but the amount of high rated players that use it makes me believe it deserves S rank. After mega evolving it has all the tools in the world to trap things and control the game - WoW to cripple physical attackers, powerful STAB moves and Focus Blast under lightning Speed to pick off slower foes, and Destiny Bond to top it off. It usually fits all of those in one moveset and it's a nightmare to face.

Suicune: A / A-
Another poke that's popular among high rated Japanese players. Both Sheer Cold and CM ChestoRest variants are good, it gets plenty of opportunities to come in with its defenses (Kangaskhan, Garchomp, Talonflame etc) and start setting up, get a lucky OHKO on the switch or just fire off a Scald. It's one of those pokes that can single-handedly win you games if it's not prepared for and clutch up when you need it.

Breloom: A / A-
The standard Spore + 3 attacks w/ Sash set does its job incredibly well. With 100% accuracy, a sash, and good enough Speed to beat defensive pokes, it's difficult to prevent it from putting something to sleep and in 3v3 that's a big advantage. Its attacking moves are also great, Bullet Seed can be deadly, Rock Tomb stops certain switch-ins and helps in 1v1 situations and priority Mach Punch is always useful. I would say A- is more fitting since a lot of opposing Grass types can turn it into deadweight making it risky to bring from team preview.

Landorus-T: A
Intimidate + Rocky Helmet is excellent at handling all of the big physical threats and can fire off a strong attack or U-turn to get momentum. Scarf set is also pretty common, keeping its ability to slow down physical attackers but functioning as a great pivot and revenge killer.

Conkeldurr: B+
I've used the same Assault Vest set from OU a bit and I like it, one of the most reliable answers to things like Gengar and Rotom and is good in a lot of 1v1s with its power and coverage. However, it does fair poorly against a lot of common Pokemon at the same time (Mawile, Gyarados, Aegislash, Talonflame, Venusaur, Cress, etc) and for that reason I would keep it as a B+.

Mega Manectric: B+
Competition for a mega slot is fierce in this meta, but Manectric has a few things going for it to manage a B+. Intimidate is again really handy with physical threats like Kangaskhan running around and its top tier Speed, Volt Switch and coverage let it match up pretty well against offensive teams in particular. Lack of raw power compared to other megas is what lets it down.

 

[SilentVerse]

I've been playing this a bit recently and have been doing reasonably well, so I guess I'll give my opinion on some things that I've used / seen a lot :).

Agreeing with Azumarill in A+. Azumarill is a strong, consistent choice that does a lot of work in a lot of games, and the sheer threat of Belly Drum forces opponents to not mindlessly spam Dragon moves else they risk letting it set up. It also checks a bunch of common threats like Blaziken. Idk there's not really much else to say here; Azu is just really solid lol.

I actually think you guys are underrating Hydreigon a bit; I'd argue that it should actually be A- or A. Scarf Hydreigon, even though it's p mediocre in 6v6, is actually a really nice set in 3v3 from my experience, since in 3v3 you don't have as many teamslots to check stuff and Scarf Hydreigon gives you a soft check to a bunch of troublesome things. Due to its Dark typing it can actually revenge kill weakened Kangaskhan and Mega Mawile with Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, respectively, which can sometimes be difficult to revenge kill otherwise due to their access to strong Sucker Punches. Its Dark typing also allows it to come in on Gengar and Aegislash's Shadow Balls and donk them with Dark Pulse (Aegislash does need to be weakened a bit first, though), which is also pretty cool. It even still manages to check Electrics like Rotom-W, Thundurus and Zapdos reasonably well, and can revenge kill the other dragons like Garchomp (and sometimes Mega Zard X if your opponent is running a slow spread; this is risky though). Unlike a lot of other scarfers Hydreigon actually still hits pretty hard thanks to Draco Meteor as well, and while it has some solid answers in things like Azumarill, U-turn ensures that it can gain momentum vs these threats very easily.

Mega Venusaur should be A- imo. It's a really solid answer to a lot of dangerous threats, notably one of the few things that doesn't care about BD Azu, but the fact that it gets eaten alive by Talonflame, Mega Kangaskhan to some degree, and more importantly, Mega Gengar, means that it's a matchup dependent Pokemon. Like, I have had games where Mega Venusaur just 3-0s my opponent since they are unable to break it, and I've had games where it just gets trapped by Mega Gengar and dies, leaving me 2-3 and at a very severe disadvantage. Oftentimes I struggle to decide whether or not to bring Mega Venusaur to a match, because there are quite a few things that really can just hinder its usefulness significantly. However, in the games where Mega Venusaur shines, it REALLY shines and often can win the game almost entirely by itself. As such, I feel Mega Venusaur's usefulness depends a lot on how much you are able to make sure the rest of your team deals with the things that threaten it (moreso than other A-rank pkmn imo), so A- is appropriate I think.

Rotom-H should be B+ or A-. It suffers a lot from competition with Rotom-W, but Rotom-H has a couple of perks that make it worth using. Namely, being Fire-type and access to Overheat let it check Aegislash and Mega Mawile fairly well, and not being a Water-type means that it checks things like Zapdos and Thundurus better than Rotom-W does. It is also a strong answer to Togekiss if you are tired of getting trucked by its hax ;[. However, it is much more vulnerable to Garchomp and Mega Zard X since they resist both of Rotom-H's STABs, which means you have to run Wisp or HP Ice if you don't want to give Chomper a free switch every time you bring in Rotom-H. Rotom-H is also unable to answer Azumarill and Terrakion unlike Rotom-W, which means that you need to bring something else to deal with that. Still, it's a solid mon that can fill some important roles.

Garchomp should probably be A+. It's such a common Pokemon on Battle Spot for a reason; Garchomp is just a safe choice that matches up well vs a lot of common threats. Garchomp is probably one of the better answers to Mega Kangaskhan due to Rough Skin and its Speed, and it checks Aegislash extremely well due to STAB Earthquake and Swords Dance letting it get around King's Shield effectively. Its strong Dual STABs and SD also make it a really dangerous sweeper that can be tricky to stop once set up, and getting that set up opportunity isn't terribly difficult. While in terms of moveset it is fairly predictable, Garchomp can be tailored to match your team's needs through item choice; for example, if you are weak to Thundurus / Zapdos, running Yache Berry or Focus Sash can let you answer those threats pretty effectively, if Rotom-W is tricky to break Lum Berry lets Garchomp beat it, and Rocky Helmet can let Chomp handle Kanga / Talonberd better. Garchomp is sorta like Azumarill in that it's a very safe Pokemon, so a similar ranking is fair I think.

Sorry for wall of text :x. Will post more thoughts later maybe, but these are what I feel most comfortable talking about since I've used these the most~.

 

[Age of Kings]

Walls of text are fine! Having explanations really bolsters the discussion although it takes me a little longer to respond to every post. It also gives me some copy pasta fodder for updating the second post with explanations.

I've updated the OP with some judgments on Pokemon that were rather uncontested and have support:

A+

A-

C+

C

Reminding everyone that since the intent is for this to be used as a threat list/intro to meta/suggestions for teambuilding resource, I wait until there is a fair consensus or good solid backing for each mon at each rank. :)

My plan was originally going to try and respond to everyone, but I will get around to responding to people piecemeal instead of getting to everything at once. Please don't feel ignored, I'll get to you eventually!

Regarding Blaziken: I’m willing to compromise with an A- (and was considering it actually) pending more input because there are so many things it has trouble with and it does have 4mss. Running STABs / Protect / BP is fine and useful to a team except that it still falls prey to the stuff mentioned if it finds itself on its own lategame. Getting SD off is a fairly risky miracle, if you want to run Knock Off or real coverage, you're going to have to get rid of Protect. I see your point with running calcs with Mega or normal forme w/ LO vs Cress and Azu but it also has to fend off Scarfers and is somewhat vulnerable to Gyara and Landorus-T. Yes, it can leave a chunk in a lot of Pokemon but it's not always beneficial to sacrifice it to do so.

Regarding P2: Yeah, I do think B rank is a little low….B+ or A- imo. P2 is actually has a bit of a variation it can run, in that it has some degree of choice in what status you want to spam. Toxic sets are very viable because it is able to beat the common defensive threats in addition to the offensive ones, run Foul Play for the super big stuff, Tri Attack for "lottery" status, Thunder Wave for speed control, fuck even Trick Room if you have balls. It is somewhat helpless vs Mawile and Aegi though, probably others.

Regarding Nidoqueen: Agreed on B or B-, no preference between them.

Regarding Tar: Thanks for saying something on it. I have a personal bias against it and though it is can run many sets, they also veer on the situational side (RIP CB and Lure). I agree with A rank because it's always a threat, but does carry somewhat of a disclaimer.

Erebyssial : I pretty much agree with all of your post with the exception of Mega Gengar in S because I argue it has a slightly greater degree of risk to use than Kanga or Aegi. I see it in A+ because it outspeeds most everything and can usually get its job done, but I argue that you need a create a good situation for it rather than it inherently creating a good situation for you right off the bat due the trickiness of knowing when to Mega Evolve. Its fragility also means that it can come in on less things despite its amazing typing. You also need to wait a turn for all of that fantastical trapping and "better" speed tier benefits to kick in (whereas while Kanga also needs to Mega Evolve, it can start kicking ass right away and deciding when to Mega Evolve is less than a quandary).

Everything else, if others give input or a few days have passed, will be put up. for the ones you're on the fence on, I already put Breloom in A-, Suicune should also be A- imo because of meh coverage and not quite having enough to survive the "super heavy" guns.

Will respond to the rest tomorrow due to writer's block; sorry I couldn't get to everything now.

 

[ryan]

Klefki should be in B, minimum. It's like the uncontested best support Pokemon in Battle Spot with priority dual screens, Thunder Wave, Swagger, Safeguard, the underrated Fairly Lock, etc. I've tried Fairy Lock once, and it's a lot better than it probably sounds. After setting up screens, it can use Fairy Lock just before dying in order to force the opponent to stay in for a turn while you set up. This gives scary Pokemon such as Azumarill, Mega Pinsir, Mega Kangaskhan, etc. a free turn, which, as we all know, is all you need in order to win an entire Battle Spot match. It's especially cool because of Klefki's very specific typing which lures in Fire- and Ground-types, giving you leeway to build a team with scary shit that can set up on the aforementioned types.

I also still use the manly Eject Button Klefki set I mentioned somewhere in these forums months and months ago. Basically, you set up the most appropriate screens for whatever leads against you and then let it hit you. Once it hits you, you're switched out, you bring something in, and you set up and win. Plus, with such a weird item, you never have to worry about item clause with it. :)

Also recommending regular Gengar somewhere in A or high B at the worst. Bar none my favorite offensive check to Mega Kangaskhan. Life Orb Will-O-Wisp + three attacks completely walls EQ Kanga with no fear of Sucker Punch and neuters it. Crunch sets come out on top, but with a burn that keeps you from losing to it straight up. And of course, regular Gengar doesn't take up your Mega slot, but is still absurdly strong.

 

[Shounen]

I think my changelist would be something like:

Klefki for B/B+: Klefki is not only super annoying, it's also great at setting up Dual Screens and getting T-waves off.
Mega-Gar for A: You're pretty much assured a kill w/ Mega-Gar, it also has a whole lot of sets which are near impossible to predict. Not as great as either Aegis or Kanga though.
Rotom-W for A-: I've been playing a lot w/ this dude, and boy does the defensive set do wonders. A simple Volt/Hydro/Wilo/Pain Split literally is all this dude needs, just give him lots of HP and a bold nature, gg wp.
Blaziken for A-: I don't have much to say on Blaze other than that it's very unpredictable. Everyone else above me has already stated everything that needs to be said.
Mawile for A: In such a quick meta, Mawile's insane attack is a great asset. It also has reliable bulk and a great typing.
Skarm for B: I've been seeing a lot of the Rocky Helmet set recently and it works. Skarm can also WW pokemon that have an SD set up, then Roost the next turn and Toxic. It also sets up Stealth Rock which it great because it lowers Talonflame to 50%.

That's all I can say atm. I'll be doing some playtests with the other pokemon in-cart and on the ladder to see where they fare. I really want to check out what Terrakion can do atm.

 

[Jibaku]

Re:

Blaziken
I feel like Blaziken doesn't need Swords Dance to be a devastating threat. A simple Protect/HJK (or Superpower for the paranoid)/Flare Blitz/Knock Off is sufficient. A- is fine.

Porygon2
B+ is fine. Also, a slow P2 can also dumpster all over Aegislash. There's definitely a concern about dealing with Toxic variants, but I havent ran into those yet. My concerns with P2 mainly lie in its inability to do much vs defensive teams. Honestly its versatility is unimpressive (Ice Beam/Foul Play/Recover/Toxic/Twave/Tri Attack/Trick Room/TBolt/Hidden Power), and Trace can only take you so far. It does however do its job really well.

Latios
After giving it a second thought I'd knock it up to C+. It still has a nice set of resists and stats. I feel like I've had the most success with a LO 4 attacks set (DM/Psy/HPFire/GK), which covers a pretty good range of mons (except Heatran =.=).

Hydreigon
I feel like the primary use for this mon is to combo with Aegislash for a perfect combination of resists. I believe Sazandora + Sword are the only 2-mon combo that resist everything in the game (short of mold breaker EQs). Definitely nice to have in a slot-limited environment.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Nominating Gengar for B- while it lacks the extra Speed that its Mega offers and the broken-ness of Shadow Tag, it still has Levitate, which in conjunction with Substitute + Disable can make it very annoying for a number of slower mons (Even Mega Kangaskhan) to try and deal with. I've also seen some Focus Sash sets now and then, ranging from all-out attacking to Counter + Destiny Bond, which can get reaaaaally annoying given the ability to potentially snag 2 surprise kills in one go. Life Orb also allows Gengar to outdamage its Mega, but I hardly ever see that. Still worthy of some consideration though. It'd be a bit better if priority weren't flying out the wazoo

 

[flarz]

Porygon 2 for A-/B+

Porygon 2 can stall out and take out plenty of popular pokemon, including Talonflame, (in some cases) Breloom, Zapdos, Landorus, Garchomp, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Thundurus, Greninja, Latios, Hydriegon, and Mega Gengar using the movesets Jibaku posted above. I don't think he's the greatest mon for anything higher, seeing as Blaziken is out there and keeps Porygon on the lower scene.

 

[Age of Kings]

Ok, going to respond to what I wasn't able to last night. Updated OP with Blaziken in A- and Latios in C+ and wrote a thingy for Breloom.

There's a few mons I haven't used at all so I can't accurately comment on them, so here are some nominations that other people should examine and discuss. All nominations are noted but I'd like to have a few people commenting on each to reduce the role of personal bias!

Zapdos - A
Vivillon - C
Skarmory - B
Mega Lucario - A+

---

Hydreigon: Good insight guys, I've always known that skilled people find a use for Hydreigon and I guess I was thinking of and seeing the wrong things. Seeing the reasoning here, I would say that it's A- or B+ because it's not entirely self-sufficient, it seems that it needs a specific team comp, and with priority everywhere, good fast mons, and even Speed Boost, is a niche as a Scarfer really unique or fantastic? How valuable is something that primarily functions as a revenge killer when many other Pokemon offer a less specialized but still competent capacity to do so? Also, Scarf is the second most common item on Chompy, losing to something that nearly a quarter of the most popular Pokemon in the tier runs must also be taken into consideration. I'm not doubting the merits listed, but these are potentially some questions to think about when deciding on a final grade!

Gengar (not Mega): I think that B- is a little too low imo, but like my reasoning for why Mega Gengar should be A+, regular Gengar does take some risk to use. Great check to Kanga, if it's running standard. On its own though, it needs to watch out for Scarf or priority or anything that either doesn't care about WoW and it can't dispatch quickly. I support A- because it's powerful but the meta isn't always kind to it and it's a bit risky to use, but too effective for B-tier.

Mega Gengar: In the A+ camp still.

Mega Venusaur: Agree with A, it's amazingly bulky and frightening versus many teams. Not quite A+ because some of the very top tier mons check it and others that can just set up in its face or don't care but not A- either because it's not as readily manipulated by the enemy, even though Aegi and Mawile don't really care about anything it can throw at them besides sun-boosted HP Fire, it can at least put them to sleep.

Rotom-H: Agreed with B+/A- based on reasoning, like the stuff mentioned in Erebyssial's post, waiting for further input before it's put up.

Mega Mawile: I also agree with A, it's not A+ because for megas, if the base form can present any significant issues then it should take it down a notch. See my reasoning for MMawile and MGengar above to see examples - great, but not always practical when you want it to.


Stuff there seems to be close to a consensus on:

P2: Looks like the consensus is A- or B+ which I agree with, and we will have to get a little more decisiveness before it's put up. I personally favor A- because it doesn't have an egregious amount of checks, it simply has a lack of resistances and is slow. However, I also believe that it is sufficiently represented at the higher levels of play, it's not for every team but when a Battle Spot team needs a tank to sit there and stall, it is usually between it and Cress.

Klefki: Don't forget the ubiquitous Swagplay, although that relies on a lot of luck but luck that a lot of players would rather not chance due to only having 3 Pokemon. I too think it should be B or B+, imo leans towards B+ because it always seems to do something even if it finds itself on the short end of the draw. Regardless of what position you are in, seeing a Klefki brings people with a "what is it going to do now??" kind of dread between paralysis and screens and all of the weapons it has at its disposal in tandem with awesome typing.

Tyranitar: Any objections to plain A rank?

If there's anything I forgot to address in this post or my previous one, let me know.

 

[Deleted User 220884]

Yeah got my 3DS back. This shows how great Bisharp is, due to it being very rare on Battlespot. This is just an example, I pulled this off lots of times before, but this was just a few minutes ago, with an decisive win.

battle code: 4MYW-WWWW-WWW9-68PF

 

[Shounen]

I agree with Zapdos at A, as it does have its uses. Zapdos' bulk isn't really anything to look over really. I believe Tyranitar at A is okay, not a bad position at all. I don't see Mega-Luc as A+ though. Maybe it's because I never use him or see him in play, but imo maybe he should be A-/A.