Pokémon Barraskewda

Status
Not open for further replies.
trubbish

trubbish

Banned deucer.
Out of the depths of the Galarian sea comes a terrifying addition to a lineage of scary Swift Swim sweepers...

847.png



Barraskewda
Water Type
Abilities: Swift Swim, Propeller Tail
Stats:
HP: 61
Attack: 123
Defense: 60
Special Attack: 60
Special Defense: 50
Speed: 136

Notable moves:
Aqua Jet
Liquidation
Waterfall
Crunch
Ice Fang
Poison Jab
Close Combat
Psychic Fangs
Drill Run

Notable Max Moves:
Max Geyser - Sets rain
Max Knuckle - Boosts attack by 1
Max Quake - BP 130, Boosts Sp.Def by 1
Max Mindstorm - Sets psychic terrain
Max Ooze

Barraskewda is the definition of a glass cannon. It's impressive offensive Attack is made scarier thanks to it's crazy base 136 speed- making it outright one of the fastest Pokemon in the metagame- naturally outspeeding fast threats like Jolteon, Hawlucha and Weavile. As if it weren't fast enough, it also has access to Swift Swim, doubling it's already typhoon-like speed to massive levels. Barraskewda is more than just a fast fish, too, with a reef of offensive coverage in Close Combat, Psychic Fangs and Poison jab. Flow like a river, crash like a tsunami.

Utilizing Barraskewda is fairly straightforward. Get it in rain and start smashing heads. Dynamax helps this fish soar, giving it wildly powerful Fighting and Psychic coverage- each with fairly good benefits to Barraskewda itself. Max-Fighting is Barraskewda's only way to boost it's Attack, while Psychic can set up Psychic Terrain, not only boosting its own damage, but preventing priority users from taking advantage of Barraskewda's poor defenses. Water, of course, let's it set up its own Rain, making it a fairly potent breaker in it's own right.

Barraskewda @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs
- Poison Jab
 
Last edited:
barraskewda is definitely among the most hyped up mons for this generation and its more than lived up to its hype imo. dynamax allows it to self suffice its rain sweeping needs with max geyser activating its swift swim and then max knuckle giving it an attack boost without needing pelipper to bless the rain, which in itself is already huge. i would say aqua jet is worth slashing with poison jab especially on choice band sets in order to revenge kill because even though barraskewda is fast, a lot of other mons can just spiral out of control with their speed stat (most notably hawlucha) making it pretty nice to have. ive also been using life orb as to give myself more flexibility in what i can select and any other pokemon i can just dynamax
 
Choice bander with Swift swim under the rain and you have your offensive physical nuker. It's moveset and it's stats makes him really scary for any team that can't hold him.
Surely a future OU star
 
This thing is one of the dominant hyper offense threats in the metagame. I don’t have much to say you didn’t already put except it appreciates Stealth Rock support so it doesn’t get revenge killed by Focus Sash users
 
When I first saw its pre-evo as part of Cramorant's gimmick ability I honestly thought it was just going to be like the thing that bites onto Slowbro's tail. Not an actual Pokemon per-say, just part of the design. Then everything got revealed, and Cramorant was revealed to be as gimmicky as everyone thought, meanwhile the helpless fish that was supposed to be the bird's food ended up evolving into a complete monster that is probably more likely to devour the bird than the other way around. Didn't see that one coming...
barracuda-fish-lifestyle-and-habitat-of-barracuda-fish-1.jpg
 
eaglehawk said:
Barraskewda is better off running Waterfall over Liquidation because Waterfall's flinch chance actually gives the move a higher effective Base Power than Liquidation.

80 * (1 + 0.2) = 96 > 85
Click to expand...
what?

On topic, Waterfall is usually better because the flinch chance can come in handy against some threats that can take one hit and take out Barreskewda in a revenge hit. Liquidation finds its merits in better damage rolls and the ability to drop Defence. Make your own decision on which one you prefer.
 
Diophantine said:
what?

On topic, Waterfall is usually better because the flinch chance can come in handy against some threats that can take one hit and take out Barreskewda in a revenge hit. Liquidation finds its merits in better damage rolls and the ability to drop Defence. Make your own decision on which one you prefer.
Click to expand...
It's expected values in probability. Effective/expected base power is the average damage output per turn if you were to spam the move repeatedly. For example, Fire Blast does 110 Base Power of damage 85% of the time and 0 Base Power of damage 15%. Its expected base power would be:

E[X] = 110 * 0.85 + 0 * 0.15 = 110 * 0.85 = 93.5 expected Base Power​

Factoring flinch rates into the equation requires the assumption that a "turn" is defined as an instance where both Pokemon have executed their moves. Thus, if a Pokemon flinches, the "turn" would end when the flinched Pokemon can finally move. This in turn allows Flinch to be a double damage buff y% of the time (whatever the flinch rate is). Let us assume a base power of 80 for an arbitrary move with 100% accuracy. The expected base power of the move will be:

E[X] = 80 * (2 y + 1 * (1 - y)) * 1.00 + 0 * (2 * y + 1 * (1 - y)) * 0 = 80 * (2y +1 -y) * 1 = 80 * (1 + y) * 1​

With a flinch rate of y = 0.2, Waterfall's expected base power is:

E[X = Waterfall] = 80 * (1 + 0.2) * 1 = 96
​
Liquidation's expected base power is:

E[X = Liquidation] = 85 * 1.00 = 85

For a Pokemon that is a fast sweeper (who also spams a move over and over again), Waterfall does more damage on average than Liquidation in the long run. This is just a mathematical justification as to "Waterfall is better because of the flinch chance."

My previous post was understandably vague, so I attached a justification in spoilers in case you want to read about it (chances are you won't).

I've been building a couple of rain teams around Barraskewda, and I find that its lack of bulk and natural resistances makes it pretty hard to get it onto the field sometimes. I usually misuse Barraskewda because I forget Dynamax is a mechanic in this game. For a Rain sweeper, I'd recommend going Life Orb over Choice Band. Given how prevalent FerroPex is right now on the early ladder, the luxury to switch coverage moves is pretty important. I think Aqua Jet is a really good move on it right now to deal with faster threats running around in the metagame (Sand Rush Exca or a Shell Smash Teapot).
 
eaglehawk said:
It's expected values in probability. Effective/expected base power is the average damage output per turn if you were to spam the move repeatedly. For example, Fire Blast does 110 Base Power of damage 85% of the time and 0 Base Power of damage 15%. Its expected base power would be:

E[X] = 110 * 0.85 + 0 * 0.15 = 110 * 0.85 = 93.5 expected Base Power​

Factoring flinch rates into the equation requires the assumption that a "turn" is defined as an instance where both Pokemon have executed their moves. Thus, if a Pokemon flinches, the "turn" would end when the flinched Pokemon can finally move. This in turn allows Flinch to be a double damage buff y% of the time (whatever the flinch rate is). Let us assume a base power of 80 for an arbitrary move with 100% accuracy. The expected base power of the move will be:

E[X] = 80 * (2 y + 1 * (1 - y)) * 1.00 + 0 * (2 * y + 1 * (1 - y)) * 0 = 80 * (2y +1 -y) * 1 = 80 * (1 + y) * 1​

With a flinch rate of y = 0.2, Waterfall's expected base power is:

E[X = Waterfall] = 80 * (1 + 0.2) * 1 = 96
​
Liquidation's expected base power is:

E[X = Liquidation] = 85 * 1.00 = 85

For a Pokemon that is a fast sweeper (who also spams a move over and over again), Waterfall does more damage on average than Liquidation in the long run. This is just a mathematical justification as to "Waterfall is better because of the flinch chance."

My previous post was understandably vague, so I attached a justification in spoilers in case you want to read about it (chances are you won't).

I've been building a couple of rain teams around Barraskewda, and I find that its lack of bulk and natural resistances makes it pretty hard to get it onto the field sometimes. I usually misuse Barraskewda because I forget Dynamax is a mechanic in this game. For a Rain sweeper, I'd recommend going Life Orb over Choice Band. Given how prevalent FerroPex is right now on the early ladder, the luxury to switch coverage moves is pretty important. I think Aqua Jet is a really good move on it right now to deal with faster threats running around in the metagame (Sand Rush Exca or a Shell Smash Teapot).
Click to expand...
As much as I love people using maths for Pokemon, you forget to consider a few things. Would you be indifferent between Liquidation and Waterfall if Waterfall had a BP of 85/(1.2)=71 (rounding)? Similarly, would you be indifferent between Liquidation and Waterfall if Liquidation had a BP of 80*1.2=96? These numbers mean nothing in a vacuum. It depends on significant KOs you can pick up with the stronger move, or chances with damage rolls, against common metagame Pokemon. It's important to consider exactly when the flinch will come in handy, more so than the extra 1/16th of damage that Liquidation offers, or even considering the other way too.

Also, the expected damage thing is kinda flawed with these kinds of things. Giga Impact has a greater expected damage (0.9*150=135) than Double Edge (120), which has a greater expected damage value than Return (102), but this ignores important factors such as recharge time and recoil damage. What about Liquidation's drop effect? Wouldn't that affect the expected damage over two turns?
 
I love how Cramorant ultimately plays second fiddle to the Pokemon that was supposedly going to be its prey. Even outside of Rain Dance, Barraskewda is asinine. I run a Life Orb set with Liquidation, Close Combat, Drill Run, and Poison Jab. The idea is that if you Dynamax, you can use Max Geyser to activate Rain (and subsequently Swift Swim) and Max Knuckle to boost your Attack, plus you have the other two attacks to cover your weaknesses, as well as Toxapex and Clefable respectively.
 
eaglehawk said:
It's expected values in probability. Effective/expected base power is the average damage output per turn if you were to spam the move repeatedly. For example, Fire Blast does 110 Base Power of damage 85% of the time and 0 Base Power of damage 15%. Its expected base power would be:

E[X] = 110 * 0.85 + 0 * 0.15 = 110 * 0.85 = 93.5 expected Base Power​

Factoring flinch rates into the equation requires the assumption that a "turn" is defined as an instance where both Pokemon have executed their moves. Thus, if a Pokemon flinches, the "turn" would end when the flinched Pokemon can finally move. This in turn allows Flinch to be a double damage buff y% of the time (whatever the flinch rate is). Let us assume a base power of 80 for an arbitrary move with 100% accuracy. The expected base power of the move will be:

E[X] = 80 * (2 y + 1 * (1 - y)) * 1.00 + 0 * (2 * y + 1 * (1 - y)) * 0 = 80 * (2y +1 -y) * 1 = 80 * (1 + y) * 1​

With a flinch rate of y = 0.2, Waterfall's expected base power is:

E[X = Waterfall] = 80 * (1 + 0.2) * 1 = 96
​
Liquidation's expected base power is:

E[X = Liquidation] = 85 * 1.00 = 85

For a Pokemon that is a fast sweeper (who also spams a move over and over again), Waterfall does more damage on average than Liquidation in the long run. This is just a mathematical justification as to "Waterfall is better because of the flinch chance."

My previous post was understandably vague, so I attached a justification in spoilers in case you want to read about it (chances are you won't).

I've been building a couple of rain teams around Barraskewda, and I find that its lack of bulk and natural resistances makes it pretty hard to get it onto the field sometimes. I usually misuse Barraskewda because I forget Dynamax is a mechanic in this game. For a Rain sweeper, I'd recommend going Life Orb over Choice Band. Given how prevalent FerroPex is right now on the early ladder, the luxury to switch coverage moves is pretty important. I think Aqua Jet is a really good move on it right now to deal with faster threats running around in the metagame (Sand Rush Exca or a Shell Smash Teapot).
Click to expand...

This would make some sense if you were able to use a move enough times in any given match to create something that looked like a normal distribution, but you never will, you'll only use it a handful of times... even though you didn't consider Liquidation properly, there's really no practical application for this approach
 
PokePoindexter said:
Why the hell are we bickering over Waterfall vs. Liquidation when Barraskewda's main job is to get KOs rather than flinches or Defense drops?
Click to expand...
Because sometimes a well-timed flinch can turn a situation in which you're KO'd into a situation in which the opponent is KO'd. Liquidation's defense drop can catch stuff on the switch, though, and allow the next hit to KO.

This thing doesn't always OHKO basicall
 
Also, the expected damage thing is kinda flawed with these kinds of things. Giga Impact has a greater expected damage (0.9*150=135) than Double Edge (120), which has a greater expected damage value than Return (102), but this ignores important factors such as recharge time and recoil damage. What about Liquidation's drop effect? Wouldn't that affect the expected damage over two turns?
Click to expand...


In my initial construction, I defined a turn to be an instance where both Pokemon execute their moves successfully. If Squirtle moved first, used Water Gun, and Charmander responds with Ember, then that constitutes a turn. If Squirtle moved first, used Headbutt, and flinched Charmander, that does not constitute a turn since Charmander was not able to respond.

While Liquidation's drop effect does increase damage power, that effect is kicked into the next turn of battle since the move does not stop the opponent from attacking. The effect of Flinch effectively increases damage by extending the turn (assuming the user moves first). Since the battle damage is being considered in the current period (turn), the defense drops would not be considered until the next turn.

You are right to say that the choice of moves are context-sensitive, and the expected base power shouldn't be the end-all, be-all when it comes to deciding what move is most optimal on your Pokemon. Ignoring these cases, a lot of move choices (Rock Slide vs. Stone Edge, Flamethrower vs. Fire Blast, Thunderbolt vs. Thunder) are just comparisons of expected base powers and role context (which I'll address in the next point).

As much as I love people using maths for Pokemon, you forget to consider a few things. Would you be indifferent between Liquidation and Waterfall if Waterfall had a BP of 85/(1.2)=71 (rounding)? Similarly, would you be indifferent between Liquidation and Waterfall if Liquidation had a BP of 80*1.2=96? These numbers mean nothing in a vacuum. It depends on significant KOs you can pick up with the stronger move, or chances with damage rolls, against common metagame Pokemon. It's important to consider exactly when the flinch will come in handy, more so than the extra 1/16th of damage that Liquidation offers, or even considering the other way too.
Click to expand...


Your examples of randomly dividing or multiplying those base powers are largely arbitrary. In my post, I derived scenarios as to how expected base power is calculated, so my justification between Liquidation and Waterfall is not as simple as randomly multiplying or dividing values as you seem to assume in your questions.

This point you brought up is nonetheless correct about the context. In a vacuum, Waterfall would be the better move than Liquidation. Taking into other conditions about a Pokemon and the metagame changes that decision model considerably. A well-known condition is that the Pokemon must move before the opponent to be able to flinch. Slower pokemon such as Azumarill and Crawdaunt are better off using Liquidation since, more often than not, they move second in a battle turn and cannot satisfy the condition for a Flinch. Similarly, fast sweepers such as Feraligatr are better off using Liquidation than Waterfall since Sheer Force negates secondary effects. This ends up being a comparison of strictly 80 BP and 85 BP.


What does this mean for Barraskewda?
Conventionally, wallbreakers are more concerned with dealing as much damage as possible in one turn while sweepers are more concerned with average damage per turn. Under Rain, Barraskewda outpaces a large majority of the metagame, so getting an extended turn from Flinching is more probable for it. Furthermore, Barraskewda's complete frailty means that Skewda rarely gets to capitalize on a potential defense drop without getting KO'd potentially in return. If there's a specific Pokemon that 85 BP KOs that 80 BP does not and that your team doesn't already have checks for, then Liquidation might be the better option. Again, this largely becomes a discussion whether a player is risk-loving or risk-averse. Do you forgo the OHKO on some Pokemon for the flinch chance? Are you using Life Orb or Choice Band? Move choices are context-sensitive based on the most optimal choice for your team, and nothing I have presented contradicts the suggestion of capitalizing on Waterfall's flinch chance.
 
Please consider adding Ice Fang on the fourth slot. It hits Grass-types for less damage than Poison Jab but it's better for revengekilling dragons like Dragapult. It also kinda synergizes with Liquidation because it enables this mon to flinch even if you forgo Waterfall
 
Last edited:
Wizard said:
Please consider slashing Ice Fang on the fourth slot. It hits Grass-types for less damage than Poison Jab but it's better for revengekilling dragons like Dragapult. It also kinda synergizes with Liquidation because it enables this mon to flinch even if you forgo Waterfall
Click to expand...
I don’t see it on the fourth slot. If you’re talking about notable moves, Ice Fang is notable for hitting Dragon-types Super-effectively, like Dragapult.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top