Banette QC (0/3)

354Banette_Mega_Dream.png

[OVERVIEW]

+Possesses a large variety of abusable status utility in conjunction with Prankster.
+High base 165 Attack alongside usable options in Sucker Punch, Knock Off, and Gunk Shot means it can pack a relatively decent punch.
+An effective check to physical attackers and setup sweepers due to priority Will-O-Wisp and Destiny Bond regardless of speed.
+Priority Taunt stops a lot of enemy utility.
+Immune to Trick.
+Naturally spinblocks and can Taunt Defog users, making it good for keeping hazards on the field, especially in tandem with the switches it can force.
+Ability to force many switches makes it a good Pokemon in spreading status and Knocking Off items.

-Four-moveslot syndrome.
-165 Attack is good, but still doesn't stop it from being walled by RU's common physical pivots.
-Heavily reliant on Protect for safe Mega Evolving.
-Poor 64/75/83 Defenses.


[SET]

name: Utility Support
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Destiny Bond
move 3: Taunt / Protect
move 4: Knock Off / Sucker Punch
item: Banettite
ability: Insomnia / Frisk
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 84 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

-Priority Will-O-Wisp shuts down any physical attacker that is not immune to it or doesn't carry Lum Berry.
-Destiny Bond allows Mega Banette to pick what you want to take down with it, and threatens opponents to pick their poison on what they want to sack against it for the one-for-one trade, forcing switches.
-Protect is essential to Mega Evolve safely, and can be used for scouting or stalling Will-O-Wisp burn damage.
-Knock Off can cripple opponents by removing their items and can hit relatively frail opponents for decent chunks of damage.
-Taunt disables utility and status, preventing Toxic from ruining Banette's attempts at Destiny Bonding what it wants.
-Sucker Punch provides Mega Banette with powerful priority to pick off threats that are weak to it.

Set Details
========

- With the given EVs, and provided the specific targets are burned, Mega Banette will never be 2HKOed by Knock Off from most powerful threats carrying the move, such as Choice Band Escavalier, even after Stealth Rock. It also allows it to avoid the 2HKO from Choice Scarf Tyrantrum's Head Smash after hazards. The rest is placed is placed into Special Defense to help it take Special hits slightly better.
-In tandem with its Ghost typing and inability to have its item Knocked Off, this allows it to be a moderate check to some powerful physical attackers in the tier with the threat of priority Will-O-Wisp, a trait that sets it apart from Jellicent as most physical attackers can outspeed it.
-Insomnia is generally the superior ability to allow it to switch in on Sleep moves such as Amoongus's Spore and Venomoth's Sleep Powder, although Frisk can help to scout for important items such as Lum Berry on some foes.

Usage Tips
========

-This set is heavily reliant on prediction to achieve its best results.
-Banette can come in on a few Fighting types on their STAB moves, such as Medicham and Hitmonlee, and threaten to cripple or OHKO them.
-Mega Banette's immunity to Trick is also great for switching into a few Choice users.
-With good prediction in using the switches forced by Destiny Bond, Will-O-Wisp and Knock Off can hinder the corresponding switch in, crippling as much Pokemon as possible before picking a target to trade with Destiny Bond.
-Destiny Bond saves you against desperate situations with Pokemon that are already setup and can sweep your team.
-Dealing damage through Shadow Claw can rack up damage if it is preffered, but this is better done by the offensive set.
-Entry hazards complement Mega Banette's ability to force switches very well, and Banette's ability to Taunt Defog users and naturally spinblock can maintain them.
-Pain Split in exchange over Destiny Bond makes Mega Banette a more sustain-related support attempting to stay alive using high HP Pokemon that are common switch ins such as Alomomola and Amoongus, but is generally inferior to Destiny Bond.
-Gunk Shot is usable to 2HKO Aromattisse even with uninvested Attack, as it can otherwise ruin Banette's plans of spreading status due to its immunity to Taunt and access to Aromatherapy.

Team Options
========

-Safe switch-ins are important for Mega Banette, so Pokemon that are slow such as Eelektross and Togetic can provide a safe switch with Volt Switch and Baton Pass, respectively. Eelektross beats a few of Mega Banette's counters whereas Togetic can provide cleric support. Faster U-Turn and Volt Switch users, provided that the opposing Pokemon switches directly, such as Flygon and Rotom-C, can also work.
-Roselia is one of the best partners to use Mega Banette alongside with, as its ability to set up Spikes, use Aromatherapy, and beat Alomomola, Amoongus and Tangrowth (although it should be careful of Knock Off) help Banette significantly. In return, Mega Banette spreads burns, checks powerful Psychic types with Sucker Punch, and chooses something to take out with Destiny Bond.
-Dugtrio is great as a Stealth Rock user in that it can also trap Pursuit Pokemon such as Houndoom, and to a lesser extent Drapion, as well as weakened Mega Steelix.
-Seismitoad can set up Stealth Rock while being a good check or counter to Mega Steelix, Alomomola, Registeel, Gastrodon and Mega Camerupt.
-Other Stealth Rock users such as Rhyperior and Uxie also work well.
-Escavalier, Emboar and Druddigon are good teammates that benefit from Mega Banette's ability to spread status of choice, and in return break defensive Pokemon for more offensive variants of Mega Banette. The former two can also check or counter Grass types that give Mega Banette trouble such as Amoongus and Tangrowth.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

[SET]

name: Offensive
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Shadow Claw
move 4: Thunder Wave / Taunt / Destiny Bond
item: Banettite
ability: Insomnia / Frisk
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Att / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

-Sucker Punch gives Mega Banette powerful priority to take down Psychic types and frailer opponents, being powerful enough to OHKO Mega Glalie, a top threat, after Stealth Rock.
- Gunk Shot is Banette's most powerful attack; despite its inaccuracy, its power allows it to mow down issues such as Aromatisse and even the most physically defensive Tangrowth in two blows, as well as catch Houndoom switch-ins for an OHKO. Its chance to Poison can also cripple switch ins such as Alomomola and Gastrodon.
- Substitute is a useful tool that gets priority, allowing it to attack safely against more powerful threats and works well in conjunction with Sucker Punch.
-Shadow Claw is Banette's strongest STAB, allowing it to 2HKO relatively bulky Pokemon as 252/0 Mega Camerupt and Druddigon after Stealth Rock damage.
- Thunder Wave allows it to cripple faster opponents that can take a hit and deal severe damage back.
- Taunt works superbly in tandem with Sucker Punch, especially against setup variants of Delphox and Meloetta that attempt to play around it.
- Destiny Bond in tandem with Prankster allows it to take down a threatening opponent with it and force switches to rack up more damage.

Set Details
========

-A Jolly Nature allows Mega Banette to tie with Adamant Hitmonlee and outspeed anything below that speed mark, such as Choice Band Tyrantrum and Adamant Gallade. An Adamant Nature still outpaces Adamant Tyrantrum and anything slower.
-The 4 EVs are placed in Special Defense instead of HP to give Mega Banette an odd HP number, which is useful to create four Substitutes instead of three.
-An alternative spread of 168 HP/252 Attack/88 Speed is also viable with an Adamant Nature to give Banette a bit of slight bulk, particularly if Substitute is opted for to those who think that it's alright for Banette not to worry about outspeeding specific threats behind the safety of a Substitute.
-As alternatives, Pursuit works well with Destiny Bond and Sucker Punch with the mind games it is capable of forcing.
-Knock Off is an option for its utility to remove an opponent's item, which is especially useful against bulky walls.

Usage Tips
========

-Sucker Punch and Pursuit form a mind-game core that can effectively put opposing Psychic types on their toes, eliminating them if timed correctly.
-Depending on what utility move you use, the playstyle varies between setting up Substitute for safe attacking behind a cushion and encouraging opponents to attack for Sucker Punch, or the use of Destiny Bond which forces switches and allows Banette to rack up damage on switch ins or pick off frailer, weaker threats with Pursuit. If the situation calls for it, Destiny Bond can also take out a crucial foe from the enemy team.
-This set is best reserved for late game as if one intends to sweep with Banette, it needs to ensure that all the relevant defensive threats are removed first, as it becomes fodder for them otherwise.

Team Options
========

-Gastrodon and Seismitoad make for excellent teammates to counter the physical walls that cause trouble for Mega Banette, such as Mega Steelix, Alomomola, and Registeel, taking little to nothing from them while wearing them down with relatively powerful attacks. The former has recovery as well and superior bulk whereas the latter has Stealth Rock to help Mega Banette with 2HKOes against Pokemon like Escavalier and Mega Camerupt, the latter of which is also checked by the two Water/Ground types.
-Taunt Jellicent also deals with these Pokemon effectively, being able to tank any hit while disabling utility with Taunt and crippling them with a burn with Scald or Will-O-Wisp.
-Eelektross is a great offensive solution to the previously mentioned walls, bar Toxic, or in Alomomola's case, a Scald burn. It can also provide a slow Volt Switch to give Mega Banette a safe switch, as the latter is fragile.
- Dugtrio's ability to trap Pursuit users such as Houndoom and to a lesser extent Drapion can also preserve Banette, although Mega Banette can beat the former with good prediction anyway.
- Hard hitters such as Emboar and Druddigon can rip holes in the enemy team before Mega Banette cleans up.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

- Substitute or Protect/Disable set can effectively check choice users as well as mono-attacking defensive Pokemon such as Spiritomb.
- Mega Banette can utilize a Substitute + Pain Split set alongside offensive moves, and can outstall many Pokemon such as Amoongus and Alomomola if need be.
- Mega Banette is a great Trick Room setter and can also set up weather such as Sunny Day and Rain Dance for the team.
- Substitute + Calm Mind set is effective against Registeel, Amoongus, and Alomomola lacking Knock Off, especially if Pain Split is used alongside, but this expands its counter list and is only usable as a gimmicky lure to the aforementioned defensive Pokemon.
- Cotton Guard can increase Banette's Defense and can work well in conjunction with Pain Split, but it is incompatible with egg moves and takes up a move slot.


Checks and Counters
===================

Mega Banette is Pokemon whose success is heavily reliant on the prediction of both the user using it and against it. A direct, offensive approach against Destiny Bond Banette is very difficult unless it is taken out with a priority move, since it means it will always take the attacker down with it, whereas status options in attempt to take it down are nullified by Taunt. Stalling out Destiny Bond due to its 8 PP is a common option in avoiding the tactic, although hazard damage and Banette's status and attacks can take their toll if not handled appropriately. Sometimes, it is best to sack the least important teammate of the match against Mega Banette, unless the opponent intends to reserve it for something else. There is light at the end of the tunnel, however; there are Pokemon in the tier that can effectively stop the one-for-one trade scenario against it under the right circumstances.

**Aromattisse**: Aromattisse, due to Aroma Veil, is immune to Taunt, making it a reliable option in removing the status ailments Banette spreads, in tandem to having reliable recovery in Wish, and can Toxic it freely to shut down Destiny Bond unless Mega Banette is running Substitute. While Aromattisse loses to any set carrying Gunk Shot, max Attack Shadow Claw is at best a 3HKO on it even after Stealth Rock.

**Spiritomb**: Spiritomb is the most reliable check among Dark-types to Mega Banette. Notably, the Calm Mind set that can ignore status ailments and stall out Destiny Bond PP due to Rest and other high PP moves, as well as Infiltrator that allows it to hit it with a Dark STAB, particularly Pursuit/Sucker Punch mind games, behind a Substitute. Offensive variants are at risk of being 2HKOed by Shadow Claw, however, and are also crippled by Will-O-Wisp, whereas Taunt/Destiny Bond can also drive the Calm Mind set to a stalemate.

**Dark types**: Shed Skin Scrafty can potentially heal off status while having enough bulk to tank any common hit. Dark-types with Taunt can shut down Banette with good prediction and bluff. Houndoom's access to Flash Fire allows it comfortably switch in on Will-O-Wisp and threaten it with Pursuit/Sucker Punch or Dark Pulse mindgames, although offensive variants can severely dent it even with a resisted move, Thunder Wave can prove an annoyance, and Gunk Shot/Return can soundly OHKO even without hazards. Lum Berry Drapion is an effective surprise against any Banette trying to burn it, although it otherwise is severely crippled by it for the rest of match unless a cleric is present.

**Mega Camerupt**: Mega Camerupt is notable for being unhindered by most of Mega Banette's utility and status with the exception of Destiny Bond and the rare Toxic, and can easily retaliate with a powerful STAB of choice, and can catch it with its own Toxic on a prediction of it not using Taunt. It is vulnerable to being 2HKOed by offensive variants with Shadow Claw after Stealth Rock, though.

**Side Effect moves**: Although Banette can effectively block direct status due to Taunt, it cannot stop the side effects of moves such as Scald and Sludge Bomb that can limit its longevity and essentially deny its ability to use Destiny Bond effectively. Notable users of such moves include Alomomola and Amoongus, whom can easily tank hits repeatedly due to Regenerator, although Knock Off and Taunt may prove to be minor hindrances.

**Physically Bulky Pokemon**: Physically defensive behemoths such as Mega Steelix, Amoongus, Registeel and Alomomola are insurmountable obstacles for offensive Mega Banette, despite the fact that they are crippled by Will-O-Wisp, and Registeel needs a Steel STAB in order to avoid getting walled by it. Particularly, these walls with Regenerator can also repeatedly switch in and out to consistently wall it throughout the game and generally win the stall war.

**************
After a slip up last night, I think the formatting should be alright now. Opinions on Banette's more usable other options such as Trick Room and Sub/Split would be appreciated, as I don't want to make a set that's....well, unviable or outclassed by standard.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Not QC, but I think protect should be slashed or be mentioned in Moves/OO because, as you mentioned, it takes away a move slot, which Bannete really depends on in order to function properly. Also, I find a mention of Cotton Guard in OO to be worthy.

Cotton Guard is incompatible with Banette's egg moves and Will-O-Wisp basically does the same thing but better. Even then, it won't stop heavy hitters such as Choice Band Tyrantrum from 2HKOing it after Stealth Rock, whereas burning things gives it approximately the same damage reduction as Will-O-Wisp would anyway, and kills two birds with one stone since it cripples the opponent. I'll put it there, though, considering that sets that can utilize it won't need a lot of egg moves anyway.

Protect is a very important option for it to Mega Evolve, which is why I wouldn't put it on OO on the main set, despite the fact that Protect is only used for that sole purpose and to stall out damage/scout. I do appreciate your input though.

Also, added the ** on the counters list. With apologies for possible rudeness, I think it's time a mod checked this out for a QC. Input on Trick Room/SubDisable as a main set is also appreciated.
 
yo, you have a bit of formatting issues here. for reference, the sets should be organized as such:

name: Utility Support
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2:Destiny Bond
move 3: Protect / Knock Off
move 4: Taunt / Shadow Claw / Sucker Punch
item: Banettite
ability: Frisk / Insomnia
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 88 Spe

the significant things being spacing between slashes and the appropriate abbreviations on each slash. that said, i'm not 100% on what should be doing what, since banette is the weirdest 'mon in the world, but i will confirm and check in short order.
 
yo, you have a bit of formatting issues here. for reference, the sets should be organized as such:

name: Utility Support
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2:Destiny Bond
move 3: Protect / Knock Off
move 4: Taunt / Shadow Claw / Sucker Punch
item: Banettite
ability: Frisk / Insomnia
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 88 Spe

the significant things being spacing between slashes and the appropriate abbreviations on each slash. that said, i'm not 100% on what should be doing what, since banette is the weirdest 'mon in the world, but i will confirm and check in short order.

That should be fixed now. My apologies for not noticing that and thanks for pointing that out.

As explanation/food for thought, I've consistently used Mega Banette in the tier as a Pokemon who spreads burns most potently due to priority, especially in a meta where physical attackers are, speculatively, more dominant. Priority sets it apart from other Pokemon that can spread status such as Jellicent and Alomomola as they are slow and need to take a hit before managing to inflict the burn, which is crucial in how effectively they check it. Mega Banette doesn't have this issue however. The ability to force a switch on anything that threatens to take it out with Destiny Bond also helps, since if they decide to send a healthy Pokemon in bar a cleric they get crippled by either Knock Off or status. The defensive spread is something inspired from other Pokemon in their respective tiers abusing Prankster, such as Whimsicott in UU and Volbeat in PU/NU, which is very useful especially for something frail like Mega Banette is, and helps it to do more than just be a niche Poke with priority Destiny Bond. It turns it into a near fail-safe check to any physical attacker, set up or not, that is vulnerable to burn, particularly against Fighting types, with Will-O-Wisp alone. Destiny Bond can also deal with them as stated in the old analysis, but personally Mega Banette isn't on your team just to prepare for that purpose and can do more than just wait for a trade to happen, or to just deal damage (which isn't as good as one would like due to the walls we have in RU, offensive support is easily walled by a lot of things).
 
apologies; as mentioned prior, m-bannette is an odd and admittedly low-priority pokemon, so there was some slight degree of leniency taken with it. my b, ultimately

that said, while i think offensive is moderately useful for being able to hybridize some roles, i don't consider the presented supportive set to be particularly optimal; as is, it doesn't actively apply pressure nor contribute to much, and at best leads to a 1-for-1 trade, which a ton of 'mons can do while having other pluses that make them worth using. at this point, i would say the best method of optimizing bannette is via a taunt + wisp set, such as this:

name: Utility Support
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Pain Split
move 4: Knock Off / Shadow Claw
item: Banettite
ability: Insomnia
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

with this set, you are almost assured to get some kind of value out, whether it be annoying balance, wisping a strongmon trying to break through this for offense, or even just knocking a thing, though 2 megas do perhaps rather well vs.this. spdef spread with insomnia is best, i think, given not only that this set has some place coming in on venomoth (since tinted lens bug buzz doesn't even 3hko from full, meaning it doesn't 2hko @+1 by extension, v.cool), but it also makes staying in and playing into stuff like aromatisse that much more realistic. the speed investment isn't really necessary imo, given every qwilfish is speed creeping to at least 242 speed in the average game, so it's best to just optimize bulk i think. shadow claw > knock is cool under certain scenarios, specifically in pushing through stuff like faeries (particularly aromatisse, who's taunt-immune makes it a hassle), m-camel (2hkoed by uninvested shadow claw after sr, super rad), and steelix to a much lesser extent. occasionally this comes into play in removing an emboar more quickly as well, but on a general level, having the utility of knock off is really nice here.

offensive seems a bit slashy, i think. to be a bit more concise, i think its best to just roll with shadow claw / sucker punch / gunk shot / (twave / taunt). tryna splice in stuff like pursuit, sub, etc. just sorta stretches it a bit too thin in terms of what it can and cannot do. i don't consider shadow claw optional b.c, unlike the supportive sets, you want that consistent damage offered by shadow claw so that you can beat a bit more aggressively into stuff. prankster twave is more valuable here on this offensive set b.c it doesn't have the longevity to make much of wisp, but being able to neutralize something like a venomoth, scarf ant, etc. that is out of sucker punch range is really dang nice. taunt is moreso a tool for increasing value v.defensive 'mons, preventing recovery and the like, since generally this set trades a lot of merit in the defensive mu, since this doesn't /really/ get around your m-lix or your alomomola in any shape or forme, and this yields some moderate value there.

if you have any questions on anything, don't hesitate to ask, but i believe this is the best direction to take this analysis
 
Thanks for the input. I'm going to be blunt/honest with my mind here, but I don't wanna be offensive and give my early apologies if anything I say is inappropriate. Venomoth was in the middle or just introduced to the meta as I wrote this initially and things had probably changed since then, but I've played a bit of the Trevenant/Venomoth meta and I'll give my thoughts and experience on that, I guess.

I'd like to note that I'm unsure as to what sets you're assuming on mentions like Mega Camerupt though, considering some of your mentioned facts....aren't correct in some scenarios, with apologies, such as saying uninvested Shadow Claw being able to 2HKO the big camel after SR, unless Rock Polish sets are suddenly on the rise of 252 HP that I don't know about.

0 Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 118-139 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 118-139 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

To get 50% on a 2HKO on this you'll need Adamant and 104 EVs, again, do correct my ignorance on some things.

Aromatisse, as well. I'll assume 252/252+, again unless I'm being ignorant about spreads again. Aromatisse can counter it optimally unless it's lolzy enough not to run Wish, although if worn enough it will need Protect to win. Mega Banette also loses to variants that run Toxic (well, I guess they don't run it that much) unless you have your own healer. Mega Banette can't break Aromatisse unless it has Gunk Shot or unless it is severely weakened already and doesn't run Protect. And the threat of the 2HKO range for that needs quite some Attack investment as well.

252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 133-157 (32.7 - 38.6%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 103-123 (25.3 - 30.2%) -- 96.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Aromatisse: 139-165 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Steelix has no reliable recovery but Shadow Claw damage is basically healed with two turns of lefties on 252/0 variants. Burn damage wears it down more in that aspect. Mega Steelix walls it offensively, but unless it runs Rest is still crippled by Will-O-Wisp to a significant degree.

0 Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Steelix: 57-67 (16.1 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Steelix: 57-67 (16.1 - 18.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

The thing I'm trying to say is that Shadow Claw isn't good at all on the main utility variant apart from the fact that you want to really OHKO stuff like Gallade or frail Hitmonlees. Sadly, it doesn't even kill uninvested Venomoth after Rocks with uninvested Attack, too. As such, Knock Off or Sucker Punch are simply better as options due to their utility, meaning that Banette can still revenge kill that Delphox/Meloetta if it wants, and compounding Will-O-Wisp with making the burned Pokemon losing an item or the other way around is really crippling.

Venomoth still 2HKOes Specially Defensive Banette at +1 after SR and 3HKOes it uninvested as well with it, unless this is assuming uninvested Special Attack Baton Pass variant, even without a Life Orb. That said, even without SR/LO, your Banette set can probably only barely check it by 2HKOing with Shadow Claw or a combo of Pain Split + Shadow Claw, and Pain Split won't heal enough on the subsequent Bug Buzz for you to live an extra hit and knock it out.

+1 252 SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Banette: 138-164 (41.5 - 49.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Banette: 92-110 (27.7 - 33.1%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

When I made the presented set for this Banette, I wanted to make it something that did more than simply force one-on-one trades with Destiny Bond that made it worthwhile, and have found it much more reliable that anything else as a burn spreader; you see things like Alomomola and Jellicent as defensive, utility based supporters that can burn, but don't they always risk taking a hit first?

For example, Scarf Tyrantrum still 2HKOes them after Rocks, and they don't work all the time in dealing with specific physical attacking threats, acknowledging that they are great walls nonetheless. It applies to Banette as well, but the difference is it doesn't have to take two full-powered hits due to priority Will-O-Wisp, as well as respective pros over the two in some ways. Granted, Mega Banette's defense is still much worse than the other two and is not a tank to switch in some stuff randomly, but it has tips for the job; Mega Banette's immunity/resistances to Bug and Fighting justify it over Alomomola in checking Excavalier and stuff like Hitmonlee and Virizion, and while it doesn't have Recover like Jellicent does it isn't as vulnerable to Knock Off either. Mega Banette also isn't vulnerable to stuff like Sub Meloetta that can otherwise set up easily on these two things (acknowledging Taunt on Jellicent though.) You can priority Will-O-Wisp that Drapion or Scrafty (and I'd argue that occasional Lum also justifies use on Knock Off) and not take half health after Rocks from it with this spread, and only Choice Band Tyrantrum can actually really scare it after a burn; I precedented the defensive spread to avoid the 2HKO from as much physical hits after SR, stopping at Scarf Tyrantrum Head Smash. Burns and a physically defensive spread also help it spinblock better against stuff like Kabutops and Hitmonlee. The 88 Speed was just something that hit me after I got Taunted by one as I Mega Evolved on Qwilfish, so I'll agree it doesn't matter that much at this point.

Perhaps all this is just me making a bad comparison to some, but this is what I think of the case, at least. Enlighten me about what I'm missing. What I'm trying to justify is that Mega Banette is a very reliable status spreader with the ability to cripple many physical threats with priority Will-O-Wisp and its much more significant ability against the competition it gets for this role apart from its offensive capabilities and its one-on-one trade aspect. Priority Will-O-Wisp is pretty big and helps itself and the team take tons of physical hits. It's no tank, but a utility Pokemon that can make physical attackers not named Emboar cry on a safe switch, and being able to shut down utility reliant Pokemon bar Aromatisse is also good too.

Great point on offensive Banette though; I'll go edit that now. Thanks for that.
 
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A little nit pick but definately something that must be mentioned is that Mega Banette doesn't have priority first turn so make sure that is mentioned in the usage tips.

And one other thing which I'll let the other people who are better than me decide but it could be worth mentioning Dazzling Gleam as a fast scrafty takes over 50% damage
0 SpA Mega Banette Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Scrafty: 76-92 (54.2 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But I'll let other people decide that one.
 
okay, can we just limit this to one set, preferably an offensive one?

defensive banette isn't very good, an other options mention is all it gets

the offensive set should look something like this:

-shadow claw / knock off ??
-will-o-wisp
-destiny bond / gunk shot
-thunder wave / sucker punch

will-o-wisp is mandatory on this, i feel like u can go either destiny bond or gunk shot, with destiny bond being able to act as an emergency panic button and gunk shot being good to smash tangrowth/fairys and 2hko scrafty and ohko houndoom, which is nice

not sure if shadow claw should be slashed with knock off, so feel free to decide on that

I feel like mega 'nette, even offensive, should run /some/ bulk at the very least

i'd go with a spread of 88 HP / 196 Atk / 224 Spe Adamant

this can live an adamant hitmonlee's knock off from full and outspeed adamant tyrantrum

please just go with this set, thanks


...I'm gonna be blunt, so pardon possible offense. I've used and experimented with Mega Banette a lot in the past (and yes, in the up-to-date ORAS RU meta, as well) and generally found the listed sets more useful. What is your set trying to accomplish, precisely? I personally think it's just made from scratch with no fixed goal, and I'm pretty convinced you've not read the content that's been given out in the thread at all. I've explained many things specifically in the first post, so I don't see what are the issues with said set, with all the superiority/uses and whatnot. I know this might be a little rude and demanding of me, and with that I apologize, but I'd like you to read the whole thing carefully and state what's actually flawed in it, instead of dismissing it with a set without really convincing explanation that doesn't even make any real sense. This is also contrasting with the posts 49 has stated, point being that Will-O-Wisp has no real use on an offensive Banette because it doesn't accomplish a lot and is inferior to Thunder Wave on an offfensive set, so I really don't get why it's mandatory there.

Mega Banette is a really untouched, odd, and tedious mon to craft sets for, I know, and I trust very little of the given staff and base are actually enthusiastic about it. The amount of time it takes for a reply and how dismissive it is speaks for itself.
 
I'm not QC, but I'm not particularly fond of these sets either. The support set runs full defensive investment for no real reason (especially given its poor longevity) while the offensive set doesn't make use of MBanette's disruptive Prankster moves and just ends up feeling like some watered-down offensive Liepard but costs your Mega. I've had pretty consistent, albeit mild, success with this flexible MBanette set no matter what kind of opponent I play.

name: Offensive Utility
move 1: Destiny Bond
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Shadow Claw
move 4: Protect / Gunk Shot
item: Banettite
ability: Frisk / Insomnia
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 200 Spe

I believe this is the best way to pilot a MBanette. Prankster DBond is MBanette's biggest niche and it shouldn't leave home without it, as stopping most, if not any setup sweeper in their tracks is something even the most avid of Focus Sashers fail to do. Outside of forcing out setup sweepers, MBanette can start disrupting teams by Wisping physically bulky switch-ins like Mega Steelix, Drapion, Alomomola, Amoonguss or whatever in order to soften them up, whereas Shadow Claw does strong neutral damage on mons that can soak up the Wisp (Houndoom is 2HKOed nearly all of the time), as well as nailing most setup sweepers hard as MBanette alternates between Destiny Bond and an attacking move.

The last move is a bit of a toss-up: Protect is merely there to guarantee the consistency of Prankster Destiny Bond, but Gunk Shot lets it smack things it otherwise couldn't. Gunk Shot wrecks Aromatisse which would otherwise soak up Wisps and Shadow Claws, brutalizes offensive Tangrowth (KOes after a Shadow Claw), allows it to put pressure on DD Scrafty, and hit Normal-type switch-ins like Exploud and Meloetta. Being stronger than Shadow Claw helps.

You could run other attacks like Knock Off (removes items, OHKOes offensive Meloetta switch-ins), Sucker Punch (alternative way to get the Mega off), Taunt (can shut down some fat mons, especially after a burn), though I never found them to be too significant for MBanette’s unique disruptive holepunching capabilities. The given investment allows Mega Banette to always survive Adamant Life Orb Hitmonlee’s Knock Off from full, while outrunning Exploud and Fletchinder to outspeed their attacks with Gunk Shot and Destiny Bond, respectively. You could run more Speed investment if Aqua Jet Samurott is of greater concern. There's no need to run Jolly.
 
Okay, I'll first start off by apologizing for being too presumptuous, knowing that it was indeed rude of my ettiquette to have been like that.

I admit that one of my primary reasons for making the defensive set didn't centralize around the cripple and break scenario. Moreso, I wanted Mega Banette to play differently from Jellicent in it's role to more reliably take on physical attackers; cringe or laugh that I'm comparing these two at what they do, but Banette's pro over it is its priority, as Jellicent is usually slower and needs to take a painful hit before managing to cripple them. Mega Banette, after Mega Evolving, doesn't have this problem of being hit hard by these physical attackers, since it will burn them beforehand; I aimed being able to avoid 2HKOes after SR as well as not be limited to one move before having to use Destiny Bond, hence the defensive investment, although it might seem redundant at this point. Being able to take multiple physical hits allows Mega Banette to stay longer to cripple more threats with Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, and Knock Off, while revolving around Destiny Bond and these moves to cripple the opposing team as much as possible. This is something little, if nothing, can do in the tier apart from Delphox can do (and even then Will-O-Wisp is fairly rare, although I could be wrong, in itself); crippling enemy physical attackers with a burn BEFORE they react.

If you want a tl;dr version of this, priority Will-O-Wisp is signature on Mega Banette and should always be used, but it will need the defensive investment to use it well. People are more inclined to switch when they are realizing you can actually stomach their hits after the burn, instead of still taking massive chunks, even if it miss you're crippling them. This also avoids any Lum Berry shenanigans that will cost you in some scenarios, as the given investment also allows you to live relatively strong hits like a Virizion's +2 Leaf Blade. Disregarding it on an offensive set was admittedly dumb of me, though, so I apologize.

I find Knock Off/Sucker Punch better than Shadow Claw due to the utility/priority they provide, respectively. Shadow Claw is at best good for denting things, which, while may compound on the impact of a battle, is inferior to the influence of Knock Off in addition to the burns it spreads, whereas Sucker Punch is useful and needed to revenge kill and threaten unsuspecting Meloetta, Delphox, and the like. An offensively centered set moreso relies on dealing damage rather than utility spread, but given that Shadow Claw does nab important damage factors on a few things I suppose it's sorta needed as an option.

At this point though, I guess I'll have to relent, one way or the other, and as stated by QC, one set should probably suffice; it is simply so that the given EV spreads that we think are optimal are different.

That said, I suppose an offensive set like this can allow for compromise;

name: Offensive Utility
move 1: Destiny Bond
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Knock Off / Sucker Punch
move 4: Shadow Claw / Taunt
item: Banettite
ability: Frisk / Insomnia
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Attack / 56 Defense / 200 Speed (alternate set listed below)

Sticking with the main Destiny Bond/Will-O-Wisp scenario, Knock Off allows you to hamper a foe of an item additionally after burning it, which is the safer and more rewarding option in most scenarios when you force an opponent out. Sucker Punch revenge kills things, whereas Taunt cripples Alomomola, Togetic, prevents early game SR setting from Rhyperior/Mega Lix, and the like. Shadow Claw is for people who need to hurt Mega Camerupt and Emboar for a 2HKO, as well as hitting other frail stuff for good damage. Sets that run Taunt over Shadow Claw opt for a more defensive set (252 HP / 168 Def / 84 SpD) to reliably cripple the opposition for a longer period of the game, being able to more reliably burn stuff than Jellicent and survive any Knock Off, and up to Scarf Tyrantrum Head Smash. Otherwise, the given set aims for higher damage output to secure kills more reliably on Mega Glalie after SR, Fire-types that aim to take Will-O-Wisp, as well as overall higher yield on Shadow Claw damage.

I suppose this will do, perhaps.
 
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I admit that one of my primary reasons for making the defensive set didn't centralize around the cripple and break scenario. Moreso, I wanted Mega Banette to play differently from Jellicent in it's role to more reliably take on physical attackers; cringe or laugh that I'm comparing these two at what they do, but Banette's pro over it is its priority, as Jellicent is usually slower and needs to take a painful hit before managing to cripple them. Mega Banette, after Mega Evolving, doesn't have this problem of being hit hard by these physical attackers, since it will burn them beforehand; I aimed being able to avoid 2HKOes after SR as well as not be limited to one move before having to use Destiny Bond, hence the defensive investment, although it might seem redundant at this point. Being able to take multiple physical hits allows Mega Banette to stay longer to cripple more threats with Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, and Knock Off, while revolving around Destiny Bond and these moves to cripple the opposing team as much as possible. This is something little, if nothing, can do in the tier apart from Delphox can do (and even then Will-O-Wisp is fairly rare, although I could be wrong, in itself); crippling enemy physical attackers with a burn BEFORE they react.
So let me just preface this by saying Mega Banette is not good with a defensive build. Prankster Wisp is nice, but with its poor overall bulk and lack of reliable recovery, a defensive spread does nothing but weaken MBanette offensively; I don't know where you got the idea that MBanette can "take multiple physical hits" when it simply doesn't last. If anything, running bulk can be detrimental when it comes down to using Destiny Bond repeatedly (by repeatedly I of course mean alternating between it and an attack). Most of the time you click Wisp, MBanette's either up against bulky things like Mega Steelix and Drapion where the bulk difference doesn't sway the matchup. What about physical setup sweepers you ask? Well...

If you want a tl;dr version of this, priority Will-O-Wisp is signature on Mega Banette and should always be used, but it will need the defensive investment to use it well. People are more inclined to switch when they are realizing you can actually stomach their hits after the burn, instead of still taking massive chunks, even if it miss you're crippling them. This also avoids any Lum Berry shenanigans that will cost you in some scenarios, as the given investment also allows you to live relatively strong hits like a Virizion's +2 Leaf Blade. Disregarding it on an offensive set was admittedly dumb of me, though, so I apologize.
There is no need to Wisp here, because if +2 Leaf Blade OHKOes MBanette, burned +2 Leaf Blade still 2HKOes so MBanette is still at risk anyway. Already you're misusing MBanette by not doing what you should be doing against nearly every setup sweeper you face: Destiny Bond. Instead of "crippling" things like RP / Scarf Tyrantrum, Hone Claws Durant, and SD Virizion with Wisp, you simply shut them down instantly by DBonding and halting their sweep outright, plus it works against special setup sweepers like Nasty Plot Houndoom, Meloetta, and Delphox as well. The offensive spread also shuts down Unburden Hitmonlee without needing to Wisp or even DBond at all; you just OHKO with Shadow Claw.

Oh by the way, my mistake. Fletchinder is one of the few setup sweepers MBanette doesn't stop without absolutely stellar prediction: if Fletch Wisps MBanette on the Destiny Bond then it is pretty much free to boost without repercussion. Taunt can help, but again you need to predict hard as it could very well just straight up Acro.
 
As much as I'm going to sound like a spoiled brat here, I think it would be best if this was reassigned to someone else since it's going nowhere, as Spirit had requested. Feel free to delete/lock and reassign it to someone else.
 
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