SS OU Banded Tyranitar Sand Balance - Please See My Comment for the Revised Team

[Goodbye & Thanks]

Intro:
Hi everyone, this is my first RMT so I hope I don't mess anything up and that the quality is acceptable. Like a lot of people, I've grown a little bored of the current SS meta, so I tried to make a team I found more fun. Tyranitar is one of my favorite pokemon, and it's odd to me that we've arrived at a point where he actually doesn't see too much use (he was the 32nd most used in March at only 4.8%), so I wanted to build a team with him. I get that some parts of the meta, like the near-omnipresence of Corviknight and the removal of pursuit (still not sure why they axed that move), are inhospitable for Tar, but I still think he has good strengths and offers value. Arena Trap recently being banned helps Tar as well. This ended up more of a defensive team with only really Tar and Excadrill capable of punching holes in the opponent's team, but that can be enough with Sand Rush Drill's sweeping potential.

The team:

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
​

So like I said in the intro, after being an OU staple for over 20 years, it's still a little strange to think that this might be the least relevant he's been. However, some things never change and his base stats are still great. I feel like the meta is too fast for scarf or dragon dance to help him much and I felt like this team needed more immediate power, so I went with banded Tar. With a band and adamant, his attack reaches an absurd 604. Obviously you're stuck with a not great speed total of 221, but that still out-speeds some notable threats, like Aegislash. The SpDef boost in sand also helps him shrug off some hits and fire back for more damage. This helps him beat some very pertinent mons like defensive Clefables and Rotom-Heat. He also comes out on top if Rotom tricks him a scarf.
As for moves, Stone Edge, Crunch, and Earthquake are givens. Fire Punch is also necessary to hit Ferrothorn and gives a more accurate shot at Corviknight with crucially more PP. I'll talk about this more at the end, but Corviknight in general can be a big pain for this team, and I think it's one of the biggest factors contributing to the decline of Tar. Full physically defensive variants with Body Press and Iron Head pretty much beat this entire team, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Excadrill (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
​

Drill is the biggest win condition this team has. He's potentially a great sweeper in the sand and the only real revenge killer on this team, although unfortunately often you need to sac Tar for him to revenge kill. Earthquake and Iron Head are great STABs with useful coverage and Rock Slide is to heat Rotom-Heat and also Corviknight at times. After an SD, Rock Slide can potentially 2HKO more specially defensive Corviknights, which can be huge for this team, especially when you add the flinch chance. I feel like life orb is necessary because this team needs the damage, but I'm not too sure on nature/EVs. I know some people run less speed and more HP and I'm also very tempted to switch to Adamant for more power, but then he becomes significantly less useful outside of sand. I also didn't feel like rapid spin was necessary with Corviknight being such a reliable defogger, but it admittedly can be huge to clean up games.

Hatterene @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Nuzzle
- Mystical Fire
- Psychic
​

I get that AV on Hatterene isn't as common as the CM or trick room sets, but I think that her stats and movepool are well suited to it. I went with full SpDef EVs to capitalize on AV. This allows Hat to wall things even like specs Kyurem. Magic Bounce is a fantastic ability and allows her to safely switch into any Clef, barring maybe knock off variants. Draining Kiss helps her stay alive and entirely wall things like Seismitoad, which she often switches into. Mystical Fire and Psychic provide good coverage, and Nuzzle gives great utility, especially because a lot of people don't particularly expect it. She is pretty frail physically and lacks real reliable recovery, but wish Clef helps with that.

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Teleport
​

It feels almost mandatory to run Clef right now, especially wish sets. The moves are standard and teleport helps her pass wishes to the likes of Hatterene, Kommo-o, and Tar, who all greatly appreciate it. Protect is also always great for scouting. I never really know what EVs to run on Clef but a mix set like this has provided me with the most consistency, although I'm definitely open to suggestions for changing it. I also get it's a little unconventional to run two defensive fairies in Clef and Hatterene, but fairy is such a great type and Corviknight covers it beautifully so I don't think it's much of a problem.

Kommo-o (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Protect
​

The team needs a stealth rocker and defensive wall, and this is the part of the team that I've experimented with the most. I feel like Seismitoad should end up fitting this better because it mitigates the Dracovish weakness and also can cripple Corviknight with scald without being concerned about getting hit hard (unlike Kommo-o if they have brave bird), but I've found more success with Kommo-o. Personally, I just think that Kommo-o is a better pokemon than Seismitoad, and although it might not cover as many weaknesses, on average, I feel like he tends to perform better against most teams. Still though, I'm unsure if Toad or something else would truly fill this role better.
Bulletproof is a great ability, especially when paired with scouting from protect (along with Clef running protect). The speed EVs are to out-run Aegislash. Body press can hit pretty hard and earthquake is good coverage. Again, protect is wonderful for scouting and helping with leftovers recovery, and I felt like it was the best option to round out his set. I didn't feel like Taunt was as necessary with Hat's magic bounce, but shutting down defogs would be nice. I'm not a big fan of iron defense but I get it can be effective. Toxic as well could be nice.

Corviknight (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 29 Spe
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn
​

Along with Clef, Corviknight also feels almost mandatory right now. A max SpDef set has been the most consistent to me, but of course I would be open to suggestions about changing it. I run 29 speed IVs to get the slower u-turns against opposing Corviknights. Iron Head to hit Clef is big and roost and defog are necessary. I think U-turn definitely provides more utility than brave bird and I wouldn't consider body press unless I changed to a more physically defensive set.

Weaknesses:
The team on a whole is pretty passive, aside from Tar and Drill. I also don't really have a special attacking presence, but I don't know how much that matters with the current meta. Tar and Drill still greatly threaten many of the typical physical walls like Ferrothorn and Toxapex. Hippowdon can be a pain to break but he can't anything to Corviknight. Opposing Kommo-os also can wall Tar and Drill but shouldn't be too much of a problem with Hat and Clef.
This team also lacks a good revenge killing option, except for Drill in the Sand. This obviously isn't ideal because it often means sacing Tar.

I feel like the biggest threats facing this team are opposing Corviknight, Dracovish, and Zeraora.

: I understand this is a really bad mon to be weak to in this meta. Depending on the set, Corviknight can have answers to pretty much my entire team. A max physically defensive variant with body press completely beats my only two real offensive options in Drill and Tar. If it's running brave bird, it beats Kommo-o. It also beats Clef and Hat with iron head, although Hat getting off a nuzzle can be nice. It feels a lot like I'm forced to just try to wall with my own Corviknight, which isn't ideal.

: Having neither a water absorber nor a mon that naturally outruns scarf Dracovish automatically puts you in a rough spot against him. Kommo-o is an alright answer but usually needs to be at or near full health and can't repeatedly switch into multiple fishious rends. Again, I get that Toad could help a lot against Dracovish and also Corviknight, but I don't know, I've done better with Kommo-o for some reason. I would definitely be open to hearing thoughts on that option though.

: This thing is just really hard to wall and I personally find it annoying because you often need to guess its set, while risking being blown up if you guess wrong. Kommo-o beats it unless it has play rough, but if it does, it can run through my entire team. When I've tried Toad over Kommo-o, it's still a guessing game as to whether or not it has grass knot. Drill can revenge kill but that requires sacing Tar first.

Conclusion:
Thank you very much anyone who actually read through this post! Like I said, it's my first RMT, so I hope I did alright. The main things I’m considering changing are potentially switching Toad for Kommo-o and maybe adding something like scarfed Hydreigon/Gengar or Ditto in place of one of the fairies, but any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated :)

Importable

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

Excadrill (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

Hatterene @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Nuzzle
- Mystical Fire
- Psychic

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Teleport

Kommo-o (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Protect

Corviknight (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 29 Spe
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

UPDATE 1:

So I've been messing around with the team and I feel like I've improved it.

Major Changes:

-->

I alluded to this in my first post, but I kind of knew that Toad was just a better fit than Kommo-o. While I still think that Kommo-o is a better pokemon and does better against most teams, Toad single-handedly shoring up the team against dracovish and threatening burn against non-sub corviknight (and I don't think that sub corviknight is very common any more) is too valuable for this team. Toad also beats non-grass knot zeraora, while Kommo-o beats non-play rough variants, so I think that's a wash between the two. Overall, Toad just covers 2 of the 3 biggest threats against my team (dracovish and corviknight) much better than Kommo-o. Toad also doesn't take residual sand damage, unlike Kommo-o; that's often not a huge deal but it's a nice bonus. Here's the Toad set:

Seismitoad (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
​

Set is pretty standard and self-explanatory. Earth power over quake because it minimizes the impact of being burned, hits cloyster and most pexs harder, and importantly is better against bulk-up zeraora. Earth power also lets Toad run a bold nature instead of relaxed to preserve more speed. I prefer toxic over knock off but knock is good too. I thought that toxic was better because certain walls, especially Hippowdown and to a lesser extent Kommo-o, can be really hard for this team to break.

-->

I like assault vest Hat and I do think it should be experimented with more, but I don't think it offered enough value alongside Clef. Scarf hydreigon improves two of the biggest weaknesses with my time: lack of speed and lack of special attacking power. Hydreigon gives me a valuable revenge killing option when sand isn't up, which I was sorely lacking against things like zeraora. Here's the hydreigon set:

Hydreigon (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
​

I talked at length about why I like modest over timid on scarf hydreigon here, so please click that link if you want to see my reasoning in depth for modest over timid. Essentially, I think the added damage makes up for the few things that outrun modest but not timid, except for maybe Drill after a spin. I also went with fire blast over flamethrower because modest fire blast is guaranteed to OHKO drill without rocks and guaranteed to 2HKO max SpDef corviknight with rocks (89.1% chance without rocks). Modest flamethrower is only a 50% chance to OHKO drill without rocks and can never 2HKO max SpDef corviknight without rocks. I think that U-turn is fine over something like flash cannon because drill and even banded Tar threaten fairies like clef anyway. T-wave would be nice but I like coverage and momentum better, especially with switching T-wave onto clef.


Minor Changes:

--> Max SpDef and Thunder Wave over Teleport

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Thunder Wave
​

Without AV Hat, I needed to make Clef my special wall. She still does a good job of it, although switching into things like kyurem is always scary because of the stupid freeze chance. I also went with T-wave over teleport because I missed Hat spreading paralysis with nuzzle. Teleport is still obviously really good though, especially with wish.

--> Max physical Def and Body Press over Iron Head, also changed 29 speed IVs to 28 lol

Corviknight (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 28 Spe
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn
​

Toad isn't as good of a physical wall as Kommo-o, so I changed corviknight to be fully physical to make up for the switch. Body press hits hard with the phys def investment and makes corviknight a great answer to important threats like bisharp and opposing drill, and to a lesser extent, terrakion. Iron head is nice for hitting fairies like clef, but again, I can u-turn into drill or banded tar to threaten them. I also went with 28 speed IVs because I thought that if I would think of running 29 to under-speed people using 30 on their corviknights, other people probably go 29, but I'm stopping at 28 lol. Consistently getting the slower u-turns against opposing corviknights is important though.


UPDATE 2:

--> Aqua Tail over Earthquake

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Aqua Tail​

DevinSmokesYall made a suggestion to reconsider Earthquake on Tar, and I think it's a really good one. I talk about this in much greater detail in the second half on my comment here, but essentially banded Tar with Earthquake gets completely walled by Hippowdon. Earthquake doesn't provide too much coverage that Stone Edge, Crunch, and Fire Punch don't already. The biggest thing you miss without Earthquake is probably the damage against Toxapex, but Stone Edge still does 48.3-57.2% against Pex, which is a 91.8% chance to 2HKO after sand damage and a guaranteed 2HKO with sand and rocks. You do have to deal with stone edge's worse accuracy and lower PP though. Crunch is also likely to 2HKO Pex if you get the 20% chance defense drop on the first Crunch. I talk about all of the trade offs and benefits of Aqua Tail over Earthquake much more in my comment, so please just read that if you're interested. DevinSmokesYall also suggested using Toxic over Earthquake for Hippo and it's also nice against Toad. I feel like this is also a good option. I personally prefer Aqua Tail because AT does a chunk to Hippo (50.9-60.0% even with max physical defense, which is an 85.9% chance to 2HKO and guaranteed with rocks) and Crunch does 45.8-54.3% to Toad, but Toxic could be nicer over a longer game.

Conclusion Part 2:
I'm happy with this team now. No team is perfect, but I feel like these changes helped with some of the biggest weaknesses of the team. I also do personally feel like Tar is being underrated a bit in the current metagame, but I'm biased. The main thing I'm still considering is running Adamant on Drill instead of Jolly to hit even harder in the sand, but I think it's more important to outrun Rotoms without sand, especially with having rock slide for Rotom-Heat. I've found jolly Drill to usually hit hard enough anyway, and definitely if he gets an SD off. Update: I have come to the conclusion that Jolly Excadrill is probably better than Adamant. One other factor that I hadn't considered is that Jolly Drill outruns Modest, Choice Scarf Dragapult in the sand, but Adamant wouldn't. I feel like Modest, Choice Scarf Pult has become more common with the introduction of Zeraora and the rise of other scarfers, and it could prematurely end sweeps by Adamant Drill in the sand, but can't stop Jolly Drill - this exact scenario plays out in a replay I linked below. This combined with Jolly Drill being better outside of sand (like I said before, I feel like outrunning scarfless Rotom-Heat and hitting it very hard with Rock Slide is huge), has cemented my view in going Jolly Drill over Adamant.

Here's the new importable:

Revised Importable

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Aqua Tail

Excadrill (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

Hydreigon (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Thunder Wave

Seismitoad (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Corviknight (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 28 Spe
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn

​

Replays:
I also didn't include any replays in my first post, so here's some of me using the revised version of the team on an alt in case anyone is interested:

Replay 1
It's not the best example of high-level play (although I was kind of proud of sniping that ditto on turn 4 lol) but it does showcase the absurd strength of banded Tar, tearing through that demonic +3 Def Mew. They forfeit at the end, but all that was left was defogging/waiting out reflect, sacing Tar, and then Drill swept in the sand.

Replay 2 <-- Best replay to watch
This is a longer game and I feel like it does a much better job of showcasing the entire team. I also feel like the level of play by both me and my opponent is higher than in either of the other two replays I linked. I think they should have gone with Draco on turn 8 and killed my Hydreigon, but I get that they didn't because they were expecting the Clef switch, since they didn't know I was also scarfed. Even if they did Draco on Hydreigon, I don't think it would have changed the course of the game too much. I also don't think they should have let their Corviknight go on turn 33, but with it being significantly damaged and burned, it was in bad shape anyway.
Notably in this replay you see the 28 (lol) speed IVs on Corviknight come into play with getting the slower U-turn against his Corvi, Hydreigon applying necessary pressure and gaining momentum, and most importantly, the sweeping the potential of Sand Rush Drill. The deciding factor is on turn 51 where if I was Adamant Drill, I wouldn't have been able to outrun Modest, scarf Dragapult, and would have probably ended up losing. Instead, my Jolly Drill out-speeds his Pult and sweeps from there. That's another big reason why I like Jolly Sand Rush Drill better.

Replay 3
This isn't a great replay and I think they misplayed by not using Dragon Darts on turn 3, assuming they had it. If they did, I think they would have completely swept me because Dragon Darts has a 93.8% chance to OHKO Tar there, assuming they're adamant, but either way Tar possibly could have survived with a very low roll - this is also an example of why I think DD Pults should run Life Orb and not Leftovers. I also probably should have used Stone Edge turn 1 instead of Fire Punch to prevent Pult from setting up, but I thought they would switch to Drill.
Anyway, the reason I included this replay is because it shows the importance of Scarf Hydreigon as the revenge killer my team was lacking. Without Hydreigon, Hawlucha would have set up and swept me. The crit on turn 10 was actually unfortunate for me because it let their Hawlucha come in on -2 Hydreigon. Modest Hydreigon always 2HKOs Hawlucha there, even starting at -2, where as it's a roll for Timid. Even if they CC'd to kill hydreigon, Toad would have cleaned up Hawlucha and I doubt their Mew could have won from there. This replay also shows a specific reason why Body Press is nice on Corviknight and that's OHKOing Bisharp that try to switch into defog. That happens on turn 8 in the replay (although I would have killed Drill as well) and is something that I get pretty regularly.

 

[devin]

i like the team tbh, seems very nice but wouldn't jolly tar be better? So that you can outspeed aegis and bisharps?

 

[devin]

another suggestion would be to go firepunch, crunch, stone edge and toxic as the last slot on t tar. Its very nice getting status on mons such as hippo that wall it

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

i like the team tbh, seems very nice but wouldn't jolly tar be better? So that you can outspeed aegis and bisharps?

Thank you for the feedback! Jolly Tar is a trade-off. Outrunning Bisharp is nice, although it can be scary switching into it. I feel like max phys def Corviknight is one of the best Bisharp answers anyway so my team isn't particularly weak to him, but you can never have too many Bisharp checks, since if Corvi is weakened he can sweep after getting one SD off. I usually can also sac and revenge kill Bisharp with Hydreigon if it comes to it, because +2 sucker punch only does 49.2-58.1% to Hydreigon and fire blast OHKOs. I also like adamant on Tar because it makes switching into him scarier and does things like giving the possibility of OHKOing max SpDef Clef, where Jolly never could.
As for Aegislash, I feel like most are either Adamant or Modest, so Adamant Tar barely speed-creeps them anyway (61 base speed for Tar vs 60 for Aegi). I haven't really had an issue with Aegi outrunning my Tar, but it can happen and Jolly is nice insurance against that. So I guess Jolly vs Adamant is just preference and there are merits to both, as is usually the case.

another suggestion would be to go firepunch, crunch, stone edge and toxic as the last slot on t tar. Its very nice getting status on mons such as hippo that wall it

Yeah, Toxic may be better earthquake. He also gets Aqua Tail through Home now, which I think is really interesting. Adamant Aqua Tail is an 85.9% chance to 2HKO Hippowdon after leftovers and a guaranteed 2HKO with rocks. Toxic also works too, as you said, but can be less effective against more stally teams with aromatherapy Clef or something. The main coverage you would lose without earthquake would be electric, poison, and rock, since stone edge hits fires and fire punch hits steels, although it is weaker than earthquake. However, the main steels that would switch into Tar are Ferro and Corvi, and fire punch is the answer for both anyway. He also has answers for any other steel types that aren't OHKOed by fire punch, like crunch for Aegislash and Jirachi. The only electric type in OU that can be hit by earthquake is Zeraora (since Rotom-H has levitate), and stone edge OHKOs Zeraora anyway (not like it's ever switching into Tar though). Dracozolt is sometimes seen in OU and could be more common without Arena Trap, but stone edge is a 62.5% chance to OHKO zolt and guaranteed after rocks. The only poisons in OU right now are Gengar and Toxapex, although Toxtricity also could potentially rise in usage now that Arena Trap is banned. Gengar obviously gets OHKOed by crunch and Toxtricity gets OHKOed by both crunch and stone edge. Pex is the trickiest one because earthquake does 64.4-76.3% against max phys Def Pex, but stone edge still does 48.3-57.2%, which is a 91.8% chance to 2HKO after sand damage and a guaranteed 2HKO with sand and rocks. You do have to deal with stone edge's worse accuracy and lower PP though. Finally for rocks, the only rock types currently in OU are Terrakion and Tar himself. Again, it's not like these are going to be switching into Tar anyway and Tar won't be switching into them, at least never into Terrak, but Aqua Tail would hit them both regardless. Aqua Tail is a guaranteed OHKO on Terrak so the less power than earthquake doesn't matter there. It can be relevant against other Tar, depending on the set. If they're a more defensive Tar, aqua tail will likely never OHKO but earthquake will probably have a chance, especially with rocks. Defensive Tars often don't have earthquake anyway though so they might not be able to hit back regardless. If it's another banded Tar, earthquake has a 93.8% chance to OHKO without rocks and guaranteed with rocks, while aqua tail is at 37.5% chance to OHKO without rocks but it's also guaranteed to OHKO with rocks. Aqua Tail is also only 90% accuracy compared to the 100% of earthquake though, which is something to consider.
So yeah, sorry for that wall of text; I've just been running calcs and thinking about this. After considering it more, I feel like Aqua Tail or Toxic would both probably be better than earthquake. I feel like Aqua Tail could be best because it still retains some of the coverage of earthquake and isn't as risky/difficult to use a toxic, since it does at least some damage to a potential Corvi switch in, although they're probably going to Hippo if they have both him and Corvi, because if that's the case, their Corvi likely wouldn't be max phys def. I also just like immediate damage on banded Tar. I'll experiment with aqua tail and toxic over EQ though and see how it goes, so thanks again for the suggestion!

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

another suggestion would be to go firepunch, crunch, stone edge and toxic as the last slot on t tar. Its very nice getting status on mons such as hippo that wall it

Yeah after testing, I like both Aqua Tail and Toxic better than Earthquake. I'll update my post to reflect the changes. I prefer Aqua Tail personally but I'll mention your toxic suggestion. Thanks again!

 

[devin]

the thing about aqua tail is that even tho its nice but hippos run rocky helmet, so i just hate the chip hippo gets on it while it uses aqua tail, rest is ur choice

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

the thing about aqua tail is that even tho its nice but hippos run rocky helmet, so i just hate the chip hippo gets on it while it uses aqua tail, rest is ur choice

Yeah, that's a good point. I feel like there are enough trade offs between toxic and aqua tail that they're interchangeable.

 

[theotherguytm]

The list of Pokemon you lose out on with Modest>Timid on Hydreigon:

486		Hydreigon	98	Positive	31	252	+1
483		Haxorus	97	Positive	31	252	+1
478		Cloyster	70	Neutral	31	252	+2
478		Ludicolo	70	Neutral	31	252	+2
478		Mantine	70	Neutral	31	252	+2
475		Darmanitan	95	Positive	31	252	+1
453		Excadrill	88	Positive	31	252	+1
442		Kommo-o (speed tie)	85	Positive	31	252	+1

The big one there is Adamant Cloyster, that pretty much 6-0s you if you go Modest on Hydreigon. Other Scarf Hydreigon can be an issue, but less of one on a Sand team. You have checks for everything else by virtue of being a Sand team, but in general I advise Timid for most teams.

As for Earthquake, you're right in that Stone Edge hits what it needs to, but there is an issue with not having Earthquake on Tyranitar. Throughout your wall of calcs you just assume that you predict perfectly everything your opponent will do. Eg: If he goes to Toad I Crunch, if he goes to Ferro I Fire Punch, if he goes to Zeraora like a madman I Stone Edge... You see the issue? While Earthquake does not seem like an important move, notice it hits all of these Pokemon at least decently hard, with 100% accuracy. Earthquake is an important "middle ground" move that doesn't seem very important on paper, but is very useful in practice for easing your prediction. That's why a lot of Choiced Pokemon run U-turn or Volt Switch even if it's not that great an option for them (see Hydreigon who is a terrible user of it and would much rather run Flash Cannon on paper).

You're right to run Jolly on Drill, the Drill speed tie is too important (and also that replay shows once again that Scarf Dragapult is garbage). A minor point on Toad: never run Toxic on it, Scald burns do a much better job of crippling its switch-ins (many of whom are immune to Toxic), and I advise Knock Off instead to get rid of the items of Clef that try and switch in.

I'd say your team is as good as a Sand team is getting this gen, which is unfortunately not great. Gen 8 just seems to be an episode of "Let's hate on Ttar". Sun and Rain are as big as, if not bigger than, ever and Corviknight being introduced as the perfect Drill check hurts. Arena Team's ban helps here to make Sand viable at least. Basically, Hippo and Drill are valued components of teams, but for other reasons than Sand, and Ttar gets abused by every other mon in the game.

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

The list of Pokemon you lose out on with Modest>Timid on Hydreigon:

486		Hydreigon	98	Positive	31	252	+1
483		Haxorus	97	Positive	31	252	+1
478		Cloyster	70	Neutral	31	252	+2
478		Ludicolo	70	Neutral	31	252	+2
478		Mantine	70	Neutral	31	252	+2
475		Darmanitan	95	Positive	31	252	+1
453		Excadrill	88	Positive	31	252	+1
442		Kommo-o (speed tie)	85	Positive	31	252	+1

The big one there is Adamant Cloyster, that pretty much 6-0s you if you go Modest on Hydreigon. Other Scarf Hydreigon can be an issue, but less of one on a Sand team. You have checks for everything else by virtue of being a Sand team, but in general I advise Timid for most teams.

As for Earthquake, you're right in that Stone Edge hits what it needs to, but there is an issue with not having Earthquake on Tyranitar. Throughout your wall of calcs you just assume that you predict perfectly everything your opponent will do. Eg: If he goes to Toad I Crunch, if he goes to Ferro I Fire Punch, if he goes to Zeraora like a madman I Stone Edge... You see the issue? While Earthquake does not seem like an important move, notice it hits all of these Pokemon at least decently hard, with 100% accuracy. Earthquake is an important "middle ground" move that doesn't seem very important on paper, but is very useful in practice for easing your prediction. That's why a lot of Choiced Pokemon run U-turn or Volt Switch even if it's not that great an option for them (see Hydreigon who is a terrible user of it and would much rather run Flash Cannon on paper).

You're right to run Jolly on Drill, the Drill speed tie is too important (and also that replay shows once again that Scarf Dragapult is garbage). A minor point on Toad: never run Toxic on it, Scald burns do a much better job of crippling its switch-ins (many of whom are immune to Toxic), and I advise Knock Off instead to get rid of the items of Clef that try and switch in.

I'd say your team is as good as a Sand team is getting this gen, which is unfortunately not great. Gen 8 just seems to be an episode of "Let's hate on Ttar". Sun and Rain are as big as, if not bigger than, ever and Corviknight being introduced as the perfect Drill check hurts. Arena Team's ban helps here to make Sand viable at least. Basically, Hippo and Drill are valued components of teams, but for other reasons than Sand, and Ttar gets abused by every other mon in the game.

Thank you for the suggestions! I do agree with adamant cloyster potentially being a big issue. I feel like jolly cloyster is more common so I thought that it would just outrun timid anyway, but I get your point of not risking losing 6-0 to something just for better rolls. Also isn't ice shard common on Cloyster, so my Hydreigon would need to likely be near full health to deal with Cloyster regardless? The main reasons why I went for modest over timid were primarily to get a much better chance of 2HKOing max SpDef Corviknight to prevent being PP stalled and to get a significantly better chance of OHKOing Zeraora with rocks. Corviknight is just a big pain for my team to break (although if it is max SpDef, Tar can do it) and I get swept by grass knot Zeraora without sand so I prioritized doing as well as I could against the two of them, but I understand why Timid is generally seen as better.

And yeah, I also understand what you mean about my damage calcs. I wasn't operating under some false pretense where I always made the correct call on switches; I was just trying to quantify coverage. I get that EQ can be a good mid-ground option, but I feel like Corviknight being immune to it and being a common switch-in hurts its usefulness. I do agree though that in practice, EQ gives more consistent damage and Aqua Tail is mainly just to hit Hippo, but I don't like getting completely walled by Hippo without Aqua Tail or toxic. I also don't think that it's not quite the same thing as u-turn/volt switch on choiced Pokemon because those give you momentum, where as EQ just gives you some damage. However, I agree that EQ has its place on banded Tar sets.

I think you're probably right about knock off over toxic on Toad. Toxic is nice for other Toads, but knock hurts them anyway. Would you recommend Relaxed as the nature for Toad with knock or just stick with Bold?

And I agree that sand/Tar in particular isn't too great right now. I just like Tar so I tried to build with him. I will forever be sad and confused that Game Freak removed pursuit; Tar would be an excellent answer to at least special attacking Pults if pursuit still existed.

 

[Anish]

hey,

cool team you've got there. i think one of the larger threats to your team is conkeldurr; not only is it very difficult for you to switch into, mach punch is really threatening for both ttar and excadrill. in addition, more defensive cores such as clefable/corviknight/hippo backbones can be challenging for you to break past, since you rely upon ttar largely versus them, and you cant really put pressure on clef and stop it spreading wishes through any pokemon bar excadrill. moreover, zeraora is also a large menace for you, since it can punish pokemon such as spdef clefable and corviknight, and your only way around the grass knot 4 attacks set is to predict around it, since switching in faster pokemon such as hydreigon or excadrill under sand risks them dying to the predicted close combat. ferrothorn and corviknight also can be a tad annoying and difficult to punish

>

my first suggestion for you would be to run a rotom heat over corviknight. i think rotom adds a little more breaking power to the mix, and gives you a second pokemon which can put pressure upon clef, while also providing good pressure upon ferrothorn and opposing corvin. its typing also is pretty valuable, with it also acting as a ice resist, while checking zeroara decently too. the evs i recommend give it a little more physdef and creeps adamant bisharp, which enable it to live hits such as bisharp sucker and give it a good chance of taking conk cc from full.

>

id also recommend you replace hydreigon with scarf dragapult. while hydreigon is a great scarfer and fits generally well upon this team, i think having an immunity to conkeldurr's mach punch is essential for this team; oftentimes, conkeldurr might become incredibly difficult for you to revenge kill in late game scenarios. while this does worsen your matchup vs aegi a little, ttar still can act as a dark resist while rotom can also punish it. this does hurt vs bisharp too, but honestly, your team exerts good offensive pressure on bisharp so i don't really think this is a problem. other dragapult sets like hex might work too with spell tag or even hex + choice specs, but the zeraora matchup does get a little harder there.

with heattom, you obviously lose out on defog on corviknight, so id suggest running a lefties excadrill with rapin spin > rock slide. while this does hurt vs. rotom, i think rotom is a pokemon which is especially able to be worn down over the course of the game, especially if you could cripple it with a toxic from your rotom; between seis, ttar and dragapult/hydreigon, your team also does an excellent job in pressuring heattom too. i think leftovers fits well because of an increase in staying power it gives you. while your strategy vs corviknight also does change with the lack of power, you can still chip it down, and with lefties + clefable wishes, you can gain more opportunities to attempt to flinch corviknight down.

one suggestion id also have is running knock off over toxic on seismitoad. knock off is a super handy move, and i think its often nice to have at least one pokemon with it, since removing lefties can often help you in longer games; pokemon such as corviknight, especially, which come in on seismitoad, can be worn down without lefties (and either burning or paralyzing them) until excadrill can break through them. rotom still has toxic, and toxics the pokemon you want to (opposing rotom, seismitoad, hippo).

import

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Aqua Tail

Excadrill (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Thunder Wave

Seismitoad (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off

Dragapult @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 Spe
Bold Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Toxic

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

i know this rate changed a lot of your team, even though its fairly solid in its current iteration. if you're unconvinced by rotom, i'll just suggest a couple of tweaks you could make which is very close to your original iteration. i still really think rotom provides a lot of useful value, with its ability to check zeraora, pressure clefable and ferrothorn, and do well versus fatter teams, but i could see why you might be hesitant

i'd advise that you run brave bird corviknight, which does deal with conkeldurr a little better. you probably have to lose u-turn, which sucks for momentum, and means you might have to be more proactive with doubling around, but the security against conkeldurr is super helpful. 80 speed evs creep conk which is super nice to keep it somewhat under check. brave birds also a handy move in exerting offensive pessure.

in such a case, i'd still strongly advise that you run knock off over toxic on seismitoad. this just makes it easier for excadrill verses corvinight; while you mention that lorb can break more spdef variants, with knock even the more physdef variants can be broken through. id suggest getting rid of toxic here, since anyway clef is spamming paras, and you do relatively ok versus some of the pokemon which toxic is best for (mandibuzz, opposing toad) with lo rock slide drill. scald is super nice for catching pokemon like ferrothorn though, and can wear down corviknight in conjunction with knock.

importable

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Aqua Tail

Excadrill (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

Hydreigon (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Thunder Wave

Seismitoad (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off

Corviknight (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog
- Brave Bird

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

hey,

cool team you've got there. i think one of the larger threats to your team is conkeldurr; not only is it very difficult for you to switch into, mach punch is really threatening for both ttar and excadrill. in addition, more defensive cores such as clefable/corviknight/hippo backbones can be challenging for you to break past, since you rely upon ttar largely versus them, and you cant really put pressure on clef and stop it spreading wishes through any pokemon bar excadrill. moreover, zeraora is also a large menace for you, since it can punish pokemon such as spdef clefable and corviknight, and your only way around the grass knot 4 attacks set is to predict around it, since switching in faster pokemon such as hydreigon or excadrill under sand risks them dying to the predicted close combat. ferrothorn and corviknight also can be a tad annoying and difficult to punish

>

my first suggestion for you would be to run a rotom heat over corviknight. i think rotom adds a little more breaking power to the mix, and gives you a second pokemon which can put pressure upon clef, while also providing good pressure upon ferrothorn and opposing corvin. its typing also is pretty valuable, with it also acting as a ice resist, while checking zeroara decently too. the evs i recommend give it a little more physdef and creeps adamant bisharp, which enable it to live hits such as bisharp sucker and give it a good chance of taking conk cc from full.

>

id also recommend you replace hydreigon with scarf dragapult. while hydreigon is a great scarfer and fits generally well upon this team, i think having an immunity to conkeldurr's mach punch is essential for this team; oftentimes, conkeldurr might become incredibly difficult for you to revenge kill in late game scenarios. while this does worsen your matchup vs aegi a little, ttar still can act as a dark resist while rotom can also punish it. this does hurt vs bisharp too, but honestly, your team exerts good offensive pressure on bisharp so i don't really think this is a problem. other dragapult sets like hex might work too with spell tag or even hex + choice specs, but the zeraora matchup does get a little harder there.

with heattom, you obviously lose out on defog on corviknight, so id suggest running a lefties excadrill with rapin spin > rock slide. while this does hurt vs. rotom, i think rotom is a pokemon which is especially able to be worn down over the course of the game, especially if you could cripple it with a toxic from your rotom; between seis, ttar and dragapult/hydreigon, your team also does an excellent job in pressuring heattom too. i think leftovers fits well because of an increase in staying power it gives you. while your strategy vs corviknight also does change with the lack of power, you can still chip it down, and with lefties + clefable wishes, you can gain more opportunities to attempt to flinch corviknight down.

one suggestion id also have is running knock off over toxic on seismitoad. knock off is a super handy move, and i think its often nice to have at least one pokemon with it, since removing lefties can often help you in longer games; pokemon such as corviknight, especially, which come in on seismitoad, can be worn down without lefties (and either burning or paralyzing them) until excadrill can break through them. rotom still has toxic, and toxics the pokemon you want to (opposing rotom, seismitoad, hippo).

import

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Aqua Tail

Excadrill (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Thunder Wave

Seismitoad (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off

Dragapult @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 Spe
Bold Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Toxic

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

i know this rate changed a lot of your team, even though its fairly solid in its current iteration. if you're unconvinced by rotom, i'll just suggest a couple of tweaks you could make which is very close to your original iteration. i still really think rotom provides a lot of useful value, with its ability to check zeraora, pressure clefable and ferrothorn, and do well versus fatter teams, but i could see why you might be hesitant

i'd advise that you run brave bird corviknight, which does deal with conkeldurr a little better. you probably have to lose u-turn, which sucks for momentum, and means you might have to be more proactive with doubling around, but the security against conkeldurr is super helpful. 80 speed evs creep conk which is super nice to keep it somewhat under check. brave birds also a handy move in exerting offensive pessure.

in such a case, i'd still strongly advise that you run knock off over toxic on seismitoad. this just makes it easier for excadrill verses corvinight; while you mention that lorb can break more spdef variants, with knock even the more physdef variants can be broken through. id suggest getting rid of toxic here, since anyway clef is spamming paras, and you do relatively ok versus some of the pokemon which toxic is best for (mandibuzz, opposing toad) with lo rock slide drill. scald is super nice for catching pokemon like ferrothorn though, and can wear down corviknight in conjunction with knock.

importable

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Aqua Tail

Excadrill (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

Hydreigon (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Thunder Wave

Seismitoad (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off

Corviknight (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog
- Brave Bird

Thank you; all of your suggested changes make sense! I'll experiment with both of the revised teams you posted. One quick thing though: do you generally find it's better to run bold on seismitoad with knock off over relaxed? I get that knock probably isn't doing much damage anyway but what would the benefit of retaining the speed on toad be? All I can think of is speed ties with other toads and outrunning pelipper without speed investment. Relaxed toad also underspeeds corviknight but I think that may be preferable because you can earth power roosts and it prevents an already burned corviknight from absorbing scalds on u-turns

 

[Anish]

Thank you; all of your suggested changes make sense! I'll experiment with both of the revised teams you posted. One quick thing though: do you generally find it's better to run bold on seismitoad with knock off over relaxed? I get that knock probably isn't doing much damage anyway but what would the benefit of retaining the speed on toad be? All I can think of is speed ties with other toads and outrunning pelipper without speed investment. Relaxed toad also underspeeds corviknight but I think that may be preferable because you can earth power roosts and it prevents an already burned corviknight from absorbing scalds on u-turns

I think Bold is probably better, if only for being tied with other toads. Also, if you end up laddering when Melmetal is still being tested, you get outsped by 252 Speed Adamant Melmetal which I saw a couple of people running.

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

I think Bold is probably better, if only for being tied with other toads. Also, if you end up laddering when Melmetal is still being tested, you get outsped by 252 Speed Adamant Melmetal which I saw a couple of people running.

Sounds good; thanks again!