Arcanine (Physical Life Orb)

Heysup

Heysup

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is a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
UPL Champion
In my opinion this should replace Howl, but in any event it needs to be added.

[SET]
name: Physical Life Orb
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Thunder Fang / Hidden Power Grass
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Morning Sun
item: Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire / Intimidate
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set aims to provide a great switch-in to many threats, hit its counters hard, and eventually sweep late-game. Arcanine has access to Flare Blitz, which is its main STAB attack and hits incredibly hard, with or without a Flash Fire boost. Thunder Fang and Hidden Power Grass provide decent coverage options for Arcanine, and while Thunder Fang seems like the better choice due to Arcanine's superior Attack, most of Hidden Power Grass's targets have a 4x weakness and are thus OHKOed. Thunder Fang is still recommended, however, since it nails Arcanine's most popular counters, such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise harder. ExtremeSpeed is one of Arcanine's most useful assets, because it allows Arcanine to finish off weak, faster foes who would otherwise KO Arcanine. This is especially important due to the presence of Dugtrio. Morning Sun is used in the last slot so that Arcanine can switch in more often, and with Intimidate and Flash Fire, it definitely will find a turn to use it.</p>

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Arcanine's two excellent abilities, it can make a very effective switch-in to various threats. Flash Fire is recommended because not only does it allow Arcanine to destroy Weezing, Spiritomb, and most Fire-type Pokemon, but it also gives Arcanine extra firepower for Flare Blitz. Intimidate is still useful, however, since it allows Arcanine to switch in more reliably against Pokemon such as Leafeon.</p>

<p>The choice between an Adamant and Jolly nature is based on what specific functions Arcanine needs to do for its team. If Arcanine needs to be able to revenge kill Rotom and Moltres, Jolly is necessary. That being said, Adamant is generally the better choice because it lets Arcanine to more effectively finish off foes such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise. It also lets Arcanine OHKO Dugtrio with ExtremeSpeed.</p>

<p>This set naturally has trouble with bulky Water-type Pokemon. Milotic, for example, is able to switch into Arcanine and Recover off anything Arcanine can throw at it. However, if Milotic has been weakened by a Pokemon such as Blaziken, Kabutops, or Rhyperior, then Arcanine can finish it off with a quick Thunder Fang. Arcanine also needs some defensive support for switching into bulky Water-types. Venusaur and Sceptile easily switch into Milotic, Slowbro, Slowking, and Blastoise, though they need to stay clear of super effective attacks.</p>

<p>Based on Arcanine's moveset, it will have trouble with different Pokemon. If Arcanine isn't carrying Thunder Fang, it will have trouble dealing with Moltres, so packing a bulky Water-type to switch in is recommended. Without Hidden Power Grass, Rhyperior poses a problem. Rhyperior is a little more difficult to switch into than Moltres, but once again, Milotic works quite well.</p>


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While I know you addressed it, I'm not 100% this really needs to be its own set (if you / LO with CB and Morning Sun with the fourth filler move it's exactly the same as the choice set, with the only difference being in description), but this is certainly an important set in the metagame at any rate. Guess it doesn't really matter.

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I found Adamant to be far better because it allows you to more reliably be able to finish off Milotic and OHKO Dugtrio with ExtremeSpeed after Spikes. I can always slash it I guess, but I just found Adamant better.
 
i know its probably an inferior option, but i've used something similar to this a looong time ago (probably around honch era) and i used hp grass over thunderfang. It doesn't outdamage thunderfang vs milotic but i think it did vs slowbro (dont quote me on that since im not 100% sure) but the real use was getting the OHKO's on omastar and rhyperior. On the other side you do get walled worse by milotic and moltres, but at least you could eliminate other stuff like kabutops+rhyperior+omastar. Maybe you could slash it?
 
had irc chat this is what I think should happen

- take "morning glory" and "bulky" sets off the website since bulky is old as fuck and morning glory tries to be offensive and defensive at the same time (as evidenced by the item slashes in the moveset and move slashes implicit in the set comments)
- upload this set at some point; intention is to replace the offensive aspect of morning glory
- i will (or someone else will but i said i'd do it) write up a bulky set which is 252 hp / 136 or 176 speed / rest in defense; this replaces the defensive aspect of the morning glory set

comments from uu people?

if that plan happens and this becomes the primary arcanine offensive set, i think the following changes would be good
- slash intimidate after flash fire
- slash will o wisp with thunder fang (i'm not sure which order; probably tfang first)
- maybe mention hp grass in set comments as an option over wow / tfang + nature shift to accompany it

EDIT

<%whistle> move thunder fang + hp grass to slot 4
<%whistle> cause its kinda the "filler"
<%whistle> imo at leest......

stamp3.png
 
whistle said:
had irc chat this is what I think should happen

- take "morning glory" and "bulky" sets off the website since bulky is old as fuck and morning glory tries to be offensive and defensive at the same time (as evidenced by the item slashes in the moveset and move slashes implicit in the set comments)
- upload this set at some point; intention is to replace the offensive aspect of morning glory
- i will (or someone else will but i said i'd do it) write up a bulky set which is 252 hp / 136 or 176 speed / rest in defense; this replaces the defensive aspect of the morning glory set

comments from uu people?

if that plan happens and this becomes the primary arcanine offensive set, i think the following changes would be good
- slash intimidate after flash fire
- slash will o wisp with thunder fang (i'm not sure which order; probably tfang first)
- maybe mention hp grass in set comments as an option over wow / tfang + nature shift to accompany it
Click to expand...

I agree with the first half and really suggest against most of the second half. HP Grass is an ok slash, but Will-O-Wisp is just trying to do too much and it's really pointless IMO, especially since it makes you Moltres bait for no reason.

Intimidate takes away some of the offensive power, but I guess slashing it is would be fair.

I'll add those two changes (HP Grass and Intimidate slashes).
 
I really think Jolly needs a slash. I used Adamant on my CB set because it could 2hko full health milotics with a flash fire boost but I hated being slower than moltres (lol flinchslash) and croak and random base 85s like pinsir and nidoking and shit so I switched to Jolly. Jolly also helps Arcanine outrun Rotom and helps it tie with leafeon, serving as a good check to both of 'em.
 
Yeah the defensive one should be 252 hp / 180 speed / 76 def with jolly to outspeed toxicroak. Everything else mentioned above I agree with.
 
Another great set from Heysup


[SET]
name: Physical Life Orb
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Thunder Fang / Hidden Power Grass
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Morning Sun
item: Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire / Intimidate
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set aims to provide a great switch-in to many threats, hit its counters hard, and eventually sweep late-game. Arcanine has access to Flare Blitz, which is its main STAB attack and hits incredibly hard, with or without a Flash Fire boost. Thunder Fang and Hidden Power Grass provide decent coverage options for Arcanine, and while Thunder Fang seems like the better choice due to Arcanine's superior attack, it should be noted that most of Hidden Power Grass's targets have a 4x weakness and are thus OHKOed. Thunder Fang is still recommended, however, since it nails Arcanine's most popular counters harder, such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise. ExtremeSpeed is one of Arcanine's most useful assets, because it allows it to finish off weak, faster foes who would otherwise KO Arcanine. This is especially important due to the presence of Dugtrio. Morning Sun is used in the last slot so that Arcanine can switch in more often, and with Intimidate and Flash Fire, it definitely will find a turn to use it.</p>

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Arcanine's excellent abilities, it can make a very effective switch-in to various threats. Flash Fire is recommended because not only does it allow Arcanine to destroy Weezing, Spiritomb, and most Fire-type Pokemon, it also gives Arcanine extra firepower with Flare Blitz. Intimidate is still useful, however, since it allows Arcanine to switch in more reliably against Pokemon such as Leafeon.</p>

<p>The choice between an Adamant and Jolly nature is based on what specific functions Arcanine needs to do for the team. If Arcanine needs to be able to revenge kill Rotom and Moltres, Jolly is necessary. However, Adamant is generally the better choice because it allows Arcanine to more effectively finish off foes such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise. It also gives ExtremeSpeed the ability OHKO Dugtrio.</p>

<p>This set naturally has trouble with bulky Water-type Pokemon. Milotic, for example, is able to switch into Arcanine and Recover off anything Arcanine can throw at it. However, if Milotic has been weakened by a Pokemon such as Swords Dance Blaziken, Swords Dance Kabutops, or Rhyperior, then Arcanine can finish it off with a quick Thunder Fang. Arcanine also needs some defensive support for switching into bulky Water-types. Venusaur easily switches into Milotic and Blastoise, though it needs to be careful switching into Slowbro or Slowking.</p>

<p>Based on Arcanine's moveset, it will have trouble with different Pokemon. If Arcanine does not carry Thunder Fang, it will have trouble dealing with Moltres, so carrying a bulky Water-type to switch in is recommended. Without Hidden Power Grass, Rhyperior poses a problem. Rhyperior is a little more difficult to switch into than Moltres, but once again, Milotic works quite well.</p>


Awesome, I've been using this set for a while, and this write-up definitely does it justice, so great job! :)
 
Snorlaxe said:
[SET]
name: Physical Life Orb
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Thunder Fang / Hidden Power Grass
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Morning Sun
item: Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire / Intimidate
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set aims to provide a great switch-in to many threats, hit its counters hard, and eventually sweep late-game. Arcanine has access to Flare Blitz, which is its main STAB attack and hits incredibly hard, with or without a Flash Fire boost. Thunder Fang and Hidden Power Grass provide decent coverage options for Arcanine, and while Thunder Fang seems like the better choice due to Arcanine's superior attack, it should be noted that most of Hidden Power Grass's targets have a 4x weakness and are thus OHKOed. Thunder Fang is still recommended, however, since it nails Arcanine's most popular counters harder, such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise. ExtremeSpeed is one of Arcanine's most useful assets, because it allows it to finish off weak, faster foes who would otherwise KO Arcanine. This is especially important due to the presence of Dugtrio. Morning Sun is used in the last slot so that Arcanine can switch in more often, and with Intimidate and Flash Fire, it definitely will find a turn to use it.</p>

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Arcanine's excellent abilities, it can make a very effective switch-in to various threats. Flash Fire is recommended because not only does it allow Arcanine to destroy Weezing, Spiritomb, and most Fire-type Pokemon, it also gives Arcanine extra firepower with Flare Blitz. Intimidate is still useful, however, since it allows Arcanine to switch in more reliably against Pokemon such as Leafeon.</p>

<p>The choice between an Adamant and Jolly nature is based on what specific functions Arcanine needs to do for the team. If Arcanine needs to be able to revenge kill Rotom and Moltres, Jolly is necessary. However, Adamant is generally the better choice because it allows Arcanine to more effectively finish off foes such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise. It also gives ExtremeSpeed the ability to OHKO Dugtrio.</p>

<p>This set naturally has trouble with bulky Water-type Pokemon. Milotic, for example, is able to switch into Arcanine and Recover off anything Arcanine can throw at it. However, if Milotic has been weakened by a Pokemon such as Swords Dance Blaziken, Swords Dance Kabutops, or Rhyperior, then Arcanine can finish it off with a quick Thunder Fang. Arcanine also needs some defensive support for switching into bulky Water-types. Venusaur easily switches into Milotic and Blastoise, though it needs to be careful switching into Slowbro or Slowking.</p>

<p>Based on Arcanine's moveset, it will have trouble with different Pokemon. If Arcanine does not carry Thunder Fang, it will have trouble dealing with Moltres, so carrying a bulky Water-type to switch in is recommended. Without Hidden Power Grass, Rhyperior poses a problem. Rhyperior is a little more difficult to switch into than Moltres, but once again, Milotic works quite well.</p>


Awesome, I've been using this set for a while, and this write-up definitely does it justice, so great job! :)
Click to expand...

just added in: to OHKO Dugtrio
 
whistle said:
had irc chat this is what I think should happen

- take "morning glory" and "bulky" sets off the website since bulky is old as fuck and morning glory tries to be offensive and defensive at the same time (as evidenced by the item slashes in the moveset and move slashes implicit in the set comments)
- upload this set at some point; intention is to replace the offensive aspect of morning glory
- i will (or someone else will but i said i'd do it) write up a bulky set which is 252 hp / 136 or 176 speed / rest in defense; this replaces the defensive aspect of the morning glory set

comments from uu people?
Click to expand...

This is pretty much the Arcanine set these days, so I agree that this goes up as the main set, over other offensive sets.

If you do a bulky set, consider some SpDef EV's, to help it tangle with Moltres, special ghosts, and the now almost exclusively special Venusaur. I tried it, and it worked well, but I never tried it any other way (no speed) so I don't really know how it compares. At any rate, bulky Arcanine has a TON of options, such as Physical vs. Special attacks, Will-o-Wisp vs. Toxic, and various EV spreads, so you really have your work cut out for you there.
 
using jc104’s proofreading style, not my usual one. i.e. all changes are shown on top of the original copy, not on top of the final copy. so you can’t copy paste this. but there are like two errors so whatever.

I think you should find some place to mention that Adamant Thunder Fang only deals 38.2% - 45.3% to Milotic since just from reading the analysis I get the idea that it 2HKOes. maybe mention that this Arcanine is very good on Spikes teams, both for ExtremeSpeed and because Thunder Fang 2HKOes Milotic.

[SET]
name: Physical Life Orb
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Thunder Fang / Hidden Power Grass
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Morning Sun
item: Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire / Intimidate
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set aims to provide a great switch-in to many threats, hit its counters hard, and eventually sweep late-game. Arcanine has access to Flare Blitz, which is its main STAB attack and hits incredibly hard, with or without a Flash Fire boost. Thunder Fang and Hidden Power Grass provide decent coverage options for Arcanine, and while Thunder Fang seems like the better choice due to Arcanine's superior attack, it should be noted that most of Hidden Power Grass's targets have a 4x weakness and are thus OHKOed. Thunder Fang is still recommended, however, since it nails Arcanine's most popular counters harder, such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise. ExtremeSpeed is one of Arcanine's most useful assets, because it allows it to finish off weak, faster foes who would otherwise KO Arcanine. This is especially important due to the presence of Dugtrio. Morning Sun is used in the last slot so that Arcanine can switch in more often, and with Intimidate and Flash Fire, it definitely will find a turn to use it.</p>

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Arcanine's excellent abilities, it can make a very effective switch-in to various threats. Flash Fire is recommended because not only does it allow Arcanine to destroy Weezing, Spiritomb, and most Fire-type Pokemon, it also gives Arcanine extra firepower with Flare Blitz. Intimidate is still useful, however, since it allows Arcanine to switch in more reliably against Pokemon such as Leafeon.</p>

<p>The choice between an Adamant and Jolly nature is based on what specific functions Arcanine needs to do for the team. If Arcanine needs to be able to revenge kill Rotom and Moltres, Jolly is necessary. However, Adamant is generally the better choice because it allows Arcanine to more effectively finish off foes such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise. It also gives ExtremeSpeed the ability to lets Arcanine OHKO Dugtrio with ExtremeSpeed.</p>

<p>This set naturally has trouble with bulky Water-type Pokemon. Milotic, for example, is able to switch into Arcanine and Recover off anything Arcanine can throw at it. However, if Milotic has been weakened by a Pokemon such as Swords Dance Blaziken, Swords Dance Kabutops, or Rhyperior, (SD Blaziken/Kabutops both OHKO so I got rid of that moniker) then Arcanine can finish it off with a quick Thunder Fang. Arcanine also needs some defensive support for switching into bulky Water-types. Venusaur easily switches into Milotic and Blastoise, though it needs to be careful switching into Slowbro or Slowking.</p>

<p>Based on Arcanine's moveset, it will have trouble with different Pokemon. If Arcanine does not carry Thunder Fang, it will have trouble dealing with Moltres, so carrying a bulky Water-type to switch in is recommended. Without Hidden Power Grass, Rhyperior poses a problem. Rhyperior is a little more difficult to switch into than Moltres, but once again, Milotic works quite well.</p>

GP Check 1/2
 
Heysup said:
In any event, not only do Jolly Arcanine almost never run Thunder Fang (they are usually Morning Glory / Flare Blitz / ExtremeSpeed / Toxic), but if they did for what ever horrible reason, it wouldn't even 2HKO Moltres: 28.7% - 34.3%.
Click to expand...
 
Grammar-Prose Check 2/2:
additions in bold
removals in red
comments in green
[SET]
name: Physical Life Orb
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Thunder Fang / Hidden Power Grass
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Morning Sun
item: Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire / Intimidate
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set aims to provide a great switch-in to many threats, hit its counters hard, and eventually sweep late-game. Arcanine has access to Flare Blitz, which is its main STAB attack and hits incredibly hard, with or without a Flash Fire boost. Thunder Fang and Hidden Power Grass provide decent coverage options for Arcanine, and while Thunder Fang seems like the better choice due to Arcanine's superior Attack, it should be noted that most of Hidden Power Grass's targets have a 4x weakness and are thus OHKOed. Thunder Fang is still recommended, however, since it nails Arcanine's most popular counters, such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise harder such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise. ExtremeSpeed is one of Arcanine's most useful assets, because it allows Arcanine it to finish off weak, faster foes who would otherwise KO Arcanine. This is especially important due to the presence of Dugtrio. Morning Sun is used in the last slot so that Arcanine can switch in more often, and with Intimidate and Flash Fire, it definitely will find a turn to use it.</p>

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Arcanine's two excellent abilities, it can make a very effective switch-in to various threats. Flash Fire is recommended because not only does it allow Arcanine to destroy Weezing, Spiritomb, and most Fire-type Pokemon, but it also gives Arcanine extra firepower for with Flare Blitz. Intimidate is still useful, however, since it allows Arcanine to switch in more reliably against Pokemon such as Leafeon.</p>

<p>The choice between an Adamant and Jolly nature is based on what specific functions Arcanine needs to do for its the team. If Arcanine needs to be able to revenge kill Rotom and Moltres, Jolly is necessary. That being said However, Adamant is generally the better choice because it lets allows Arcanine to more effectively finish off foes such as Milotic, Slowking, and Blastoise. It also lets Arcanine OHKO Dugtrio with ExtremeSpeed.</p>

<p>This set naturally has trouble with bulky Water-type Pokemon. Milotic, for example, is able to switch into Arcanine and Recover off anything Arcanine can throw at it. However, if Milotic has been weakened by a Pokemon such as Blaziken, Kabutops, or Rhyperior, then Arcanine can finish it off with a quick Thunder Fang. Arcanine also needs some defensive support for switching into bulky Water-types. Venusaur easily switches into Milotic and Blastoise, though it needs to be careful switching into Slowbro or Slowking. [maybe mention Sceptile, who can switch in and force out all four of those Pokemon?]</p>

<p>Based on Arcanine's moveset, it will have trouble with different Pokemon. If Arcanine isn't carrying does not carry Thunder Fang, it will have trouble dealing with Moltres, so packing carrying a bulky Water-type to switch in is recommended. Without Hidden Power Grass, Rhyperior poses a problem. Rhyperior is a little more difficult to switch into than Moltres, but once again, Milotic works quite well.</p>
Click to expand...
Nice analysis. The vast majority of my edits were prose-related, with a few being especially prominent: you have a tendency to heavily overuse "however" and "allows," so I replaced some mentions of said words. Apart from that, this was a clear, concise, well-written analysis. Good job! Withholding stamp until changes are implemented.
 
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