Aqua Ring

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Stratos

Banned deucer.
This discussion will be moderated to ensure it is focused

Aqua Ring currently is pretty inefficient, restoring a whopping 12 hp over the course of two rounds. On the bright side, its niches are preserving an Endure and not taking up a recovery move.

Currently, it's:
[box]Aqua Ring: The Pokemon surrounds itself in looping rings of water that pulsate with healing energy, restoring two (2) HP per action for the next six (6) actions. Aqua Ring does not use up a recovery move.

Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 9 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: N/A | Typing: Water | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive[/box]

Should we give it a buff to make it more usable? if so, how, and how much?
​
 
As I've said before, I favor a buff to 12 actions. This still makes it weak as a "recover" type move, because of the 10 actions you would have to weather in order to get more healing than Recover.

Instead Aqua Ring becomes a move you throw up Round 1, as a set up, similar to stat boosting moves, or Leech Seed.

Speaking of Leech Seed, lets compare my proposed fix, as I feel both moves are similar "early round support":


Leech Seed|Aqua Ring Buff
10 en|9 en
6a|12a
Heals for 18|Heals for 24
Damages for 18|Damages for 0
+36 HP|+24 HP
​

As you can see, even doubling the duration still makes it a relatively weak move, but now it has some potential, and is worth spending an action on, versus before, where spending a turn to heal 12 hp over 2 rounds, hardly worth it.

Making it permanent is a whole new issue, and I won't comment on that at the moment.

Finally, if we buff this, lets buff ingrain as well. Only one pokemon learns both (Corsola), and really, there is no reason to keep moves almost exactly the same in game different.
 
I think Aqua Ring should stay as is. It's recovery is similar to leftovers so why buff Aqua Ring and not leftovers? The only buff I can think of is potentially granting the user of Aqua Ring a water immunity? That could at least buff it while not being overpowered at all since the majority of Pokemon with Aqua Ring are water types. The only Pokemon who have Aqua Ring that don't resist water are the Seismatoad line, Corsola, and Smeargle.
 
Leftovers is permanent and doesnt use up an action in combat, while Aqua Ring has neither advantage, so Leftovers and Aqua Ring are on very different power levels here. I also think its unnecessary to be adding all kinds of weird effects to Aqua Ring to to make it viable when it is primarily a healing move, its best if we just leave it at that and bring the numbers up to a level where its usuable. I originally thought that doubling the duration might be stepping it up a bit to far, but looking at the numbers that brings it to the point that its on par with Morning Sun and Moonlight HP recovery wise. Although i think with a buff like this we definitely need to bring the energy cost up to 12 or something to reflect this. I wouldnt go so far as to raise it all the way up to Morning Sun's 16, since Aqua Ring very well has the chance to have its recipient faint before all of the healing is received, or getting phased with Roar or something.
 
I say we shorten Aqua Ring to 5 actions but make it heal 4 HP per action, and make it 12 Energy. My reasoning:

5 actions * 4 HP per action = 20 HP recovered over 5 actions. Essentially, this means 1.6 HP recovery per Energy.
Leech Seed, meanwhile, heals 18 HP for 10 Energy, which is 1.8 EN per HP; however, it also damages the foe. Although in most cases this makes it seem like it is superior to Aqua Ring, remember that the 4 HP/action recovers HP faster than the 3 per action from Leech Seed.

Essentially, this means if you have a Smeargle or something, you can either pick damage or faster healing, as there is no Energy difference and only a 2 HP difference.

Meanwhile, there are flaws with other options (albeit, their are flaws with my idea, but nonetheless): Unitas' Water immune perk makes Aqua Ring rather underpowered. Meanwhile, the 12 action duration still highlights Aqua Ring's largest flaw: Aqua Ring, as it is currently, only heals 2 HP per action, which is very little in a fast-paced game like ASB. Sure, it's nice for nullifying Burn or Poison or whatever damage, but there is the notable flaw that 6 HP per round (4 in Triples+) won't save you, unless you're trying to Endure your way to victory, in which case you probably don't have the turns to set up Aqua Ring anyway. Infinite, meanwhile, puts a large emphasis on stalling out turns, and it turns into a Protect and Dodge war. On a similar note, doubling HP recovered, though it may seem like it fixes the aforementioned "largest flaw" of Aqua Ring, has the disadvantage of being able to recover 24 HP in 6 turns; though it could be argued moves like Roost and Recover heal around the same thing in 1 turn, remember that Aqua Ring does not use up a recovery move, and, likewise, can be used infinitely, allowing the user to essentially stall out the 6 turns indefinitely if they repeat a good pattern (and possibly get lucky with Dodges, but that's a whole other discussion). Meanwhile, if Aqua Ring is modified so it does take up a Recovery move, then I could see doubling the gained HP feasible; in fact, I'd say that 3 HP per action for 10 actions but taking up a recovery move would be a nice improvement, as 30 HP in 10 actions is good enough to count as a recovery move to me.

tl;dr Aqua Ring should heal 4 HP per action for 5 actions but have its Energy increased to 12, or make it heal 3 HP per action for 10 actions but take up a recovery move.

Feel free to shoot my opinion down, I guess.
 
I like Unoriginal Name's idea. Theres also another point that hasnt been mentioned yet though.

In the anime, Aqua Ring was used by Skyla to heal her Swanna from a burn. While the anime is known for a lot of bullshit, that seems a ''bit'' more reasonable than , say, Thunder Armor.

I do feel that Aqua Ring being able to cure or prevent burns would be a nice boost to the move, and while i do think it isnt perfectly logical, i think it might warrant some minor discussion.
 
I'd combine Name and Matez suggestions.

3 HP over 8 Rounds (total 24 HP healed), heals burns, costs 10 EN, and takes up a recovery move.
 
One thing we have to consider is Ingrain needs roughly the same effect. It's already slightly worse, and even if we bump it to the Aqua Ring HP healing, it's still much worse.
 
Ingrain already has it's own special effect; preventing phasing, which is a more than serviceable. Apart from bringing up the HP healing to match whatever level we decide for Aqua Ring, I don't think we need to do anything for Ingrain.

Aqua Ring; I am in favour of making it 4HP/action, labeling it a Recovery move, and raising the energy cost to match other recovery moves. If an added effect is to be added, then the Burn-healing has Anime-precedence, and makes sense in terms of flavour.
 
Cube said:
I'd combine Name and Matez suggestions.

3 HP over 8 Rounds (total 24 HP healed), heals burns, costs 10 EN, and takes up a recovery move.
Click to expand...
If you're able to stay alive for eight rounds you deserve some serious applause. In most cases you'd stay alive for something like three rounds – maybe five or six if you're using Aqua Ring combined with a stall tactic – which is still fairly horrible.

Personally I think six actions is a perfect timer; it's long enough to not have to refresh it repeatedly, and not so long that it's equivalent to an infinite buff. Also everything else is six actions >_> Bumping it up to something like 3 HP/A or 4 HP/A would work well, and actually I don't think the EN cost would really need to change, seeing as it's a long-term rather than short-term recovery.
 
I think it would be nice for it to heal 24 Hp per use since you have to survive those 6 actions, it helps you endure your way through 2 indirect damages (say sandstorm + sand tomb or burn + hail) and in the end you still have to survive 6 actions for it to see it's full effect, the ability to cure burn would be nice too (also Ingrain should get the boost too since not being able to switch is an advantage as much mas a disadvantage and it would be equivalent to burn refresh)
 
SimonSays said:
Ingrain already has it's own special effect; preventing phasing, which is a more than serviceable. Apart from bringing up the HP healing to match whatever level we decide for Aqua Ring, I don't think we need to do anything for Ingrain.

Aqua Ring; I am in favour of making it 4HP/action, labeling it a Recovery move, and raising the energy cost to match other recovery moves. If an added effect is to be added, then the Burn-healing has Anime-precedence, and makes sense in terms of flavour.
Click to expand...
Simon took the words out of my mouth. For now, I fully support this one.
 
i think this discussion is winding down now, so i'm going to put up a tentative slate and a 24h warning

there are a lot of voting options here, so fasten your seatbelts

[box]How much hp should aqua ring heal?
keep it how it is
around 16-20
24[/box]

[box]What duration/heal combination should aqua ring use?
IF the vote comes out 16-20:
4 dpa, 4 actions
4 dpa, 5 actions
3 dpa, 6 actions
2 dpa, 9 actions

IF the previous vote comes out to 24:
4 dpa, 6 actions
3 dpa, 8 actions
2 dpa, 12 actions[/box]

[box]Should Aqua Ring have other effects?
No
Heal and prevent Burn while active[/box]

[box]Should Aqua Ring count as a healing move?
No
Yes[/box]

[box]Should aqua ring's hp restoration numbers be mirrored in Ingrain?
Yes
No[/box]

obviously, if you feel something should be added to the slate or more should be discussed, speak up now
 
my router was broken, so i was hoping someone else would do it for me but it's fixed now:

Vote going up.
 
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