Another Houndoom Option - Yes, I have damage Calcs

Loetke

I wanted to use this as my 1,000th post, but I got carried away <_<;; This is something I came up with a few months back, before I ever came to Smogon. Those were dark times... Majesty and I have both used this set in many battles with great results. It's by no means revolutionary or game breaking, and I'm not trying to 'fix something that's not broken', but it's another option on a Pokemon that needs more options. It was pointed out to me that this is using a lot of the "Other Options" from the analysis page. If I made a set using the options that were left out, so be it. It still works, and works well! Written in the tradition of the analysis page, I present to you...A Houndoom moveset without a name!

[SET]
name: SubPlot?
move 1: Substitute / HP Fighting
move 2: Nasty Plot
move 3: Overheat
move 4: Dark Pulse
item: Life Orb / Wise Glasses / Leftovers / Salac Berry

ability: Flash Fire
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 40 HP / 216 Spd / 252 SpAtk

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Obviously you're going to want to switch Houndoom in on something to give him the Flash Fire boost and a free switch. If that can't be arranged, he can also work wonders when switched in as a revenge killer.</p>

<p>Once you've gotten Houndoom in unscathed you can begin. The basic idea is to get your substitute up while your opponent is switching to a counter or wall, and then start with your Nasty Plots. Anything that gets hit with an Overheat from Houndoom is going to take some serious damage, especially if you've gotten in a Nasty Plot first.</p>

<p>With a Plot boost and Timid nature, Houndoom has well over 600 SpAtk. Using Overheat will drop it down to normal range, which is still very dangerous with Life Orb and a Flash Fire boost.</p>

<p>Dark Pulse is here for coverage and a very powerful STAB attack in case your opponent is running Cresselia, Milotic, or anything with Thick Fat.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>HP Fighting can be used over Dark Pulse for other Houndooms, or Heatran. Fire Blast can be used instead of Overheat, but you give up the initial power and you lose 5% accuracy.

<p>Life Orb is a great choice for a decent amount of extra power, but the HP loss may steer some people away when using Substitute. Wise Glasses give you a small damage boost and leave you with flexibility over Choice Specs/Scarf. Leftovers are a decent option to use with Substitute, though you lose any extra damage, and Houndoom isn't made to stay in for the long haul to begin with. Salac Berry is another option. Substitute down to 25% HP while using Nasty Plot at every opportunity to get a Speed boost. With 95 Base Speed and a Salac boost, not many things will be outrunning you.</p>

[EVs] (Taken directly from the analysis page)

<p>40 HP / 216 Spd / 252 SpAtk allows Houndoom to survive three Seismic Tosses from Blissey, provided you don't have Life Orb. Timid will outrun all PorygonZ and Lucario, Modest beats them if they're neutral natured but fails to outspeed Salamence.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Heatran counters the hell out of this set without HP Fighting. He can absorb Overheat, then turn around and OHKO with Earth Power, and be set up to start sweeping with his now boosted Fire type attacks. If your opponent is running a Choice Scarf Heatran you're dead in the water...</p>

<p>Tyranitar makes things really difficult as well without HP Fighting. Not only does he resist both of your attacks, but Sandstorm makes him take even less damage while whittling away at your already low HP if you're using Life Orb.</p>

<p>Blaziken and Infernape can switch in on either attack without taking too much damage, and then outspeed you for the KO on the next turn.</p>

<p>Snorlax with Thick Fat really walls this set, and Houndoom in general. The most damage you're going to do to him is with HP Fighting, and that's still only around 50%, while he's going to OHKO with Earthquake. Assuming you have a Sub up already though that won't be a problem.</p>

These are all damage calculations against what you can expect to commonly switch in on Houndoom. I'm not just posting damage against walls, but counters as well. With Stealth Rock set up, this could seriously cripple some teams.

Timid + Life Orb + 1 Nasty Plot + Flash Fire boosted Overheat:

On max HP, no SpDef Bold Blissey: Damage: 86.13% - 101.26%
On max HP, no SpDef Bold Cresselia: Damage: 143.02% - 168.24%
On max HP, no SpDef Bold Milotic: Damage: 83.50% - 98.22%
On max HP, no SpDef Impish Swampert: Damage: 107.43% - 126.49%
On max HP, no SpDef Bold Suicune: Damage: 87.38% - 102.72%
On max HP, no SpDef Tyranitar in Sand: Damage: 73.88% - 86.88%
On no HP, no SpDef Infernape: Damage: 179.52% - 211.26%
On 16 HP, 32 SpDef Garchomp: Damage: 121.33% - 142.94%
On 120 HP, no SpDef Salamence: Damage: 132.41% - 155.96%
On 212 HP, no SpDef Gyarados: Damage: 103.65% - 121.88%

Obviously you won't always be able to lure in a Flash Fire boost, so here are some calculations without it.

Timid + Life Orb + 1 Nasty Plot Overheat:

On max HP, no SpDef Bold Blissey: Damage: 57.42% - 67.51%
On max HP, no SpDef Bold Cresselia: Damage: 95.27% - 112.16%
On max HP, no SpDef Bold Milotic: Damage: 55.58% - 65.48%
On max HP, no SpDef Impish Swampert: Damage: 71.78% - 84.41%
On max HP, no SpDef Bold Suicune: Damage: 58.17% - 68.56%
On max HP, no SpDef Tyranitar in Sand: Damage: 45.19% - 57.93%
On no HP, no SpDef Infernape: Damage: 119.80% - 140.96%
On 16 HP, 32 SpDef Garchomp: Damage: 80.89% - 95.29%
On 120 HP, no SpDef Salamence: Damage: 88.37% - 103.88%
On 212 HP, no SpDef Gyarados: Damage: 69.01% - 81.25%

Needless to say, if you happen to get TWO Nasty Plots in by chance, anything here is gone in one hit. Well, since this isn't Houndooms only offensive attack, let's take a look at Dark Pulse.

Timid + Life Orb + 1 Nasty Plot Dark Pulse:

On max HP, no SpDef Bold Blissey: Damage: 33.05% - 38.80%
On max HP, no SpDef Bold Cresselia: Damage: 109.68% - 129.05%
On max HP, no SpDef Bold Milotic: Damage: 63.96% - 75.13%
On max HP, no SpDef Impish Swampert: Damage: 82.18% - 96.78%
On max HP, no SpDef Bold Suicune: Damage: 66.83% - 78.71%
On no HP, no SpDef Infernape:Damage: 68.60% - 80.89%
On 16 HP, 32 SpDef Garchomp: Damage: 64.98% - 76.43%
On 120 HP, no SpDef Salamence: Damage: 101.39% - 119.11%
On 212 HP, no SpDef Gyarados: Damage: 79.17% - 93.23%

As you can see, Dark Pulse even creates quite a problem for these guys (with the exception of Blissey) after a Plot. Well, there it is. Let me know what you think. If you don't like it, don't flame, just post why you don't like it. Offer suggestions. It's not perfect, but no moveset is. You obviously can't do everything with one Pokemon. Like I said, I've used it a bunch and it hasn't let us down so far.
 
You might want to try to max speed. Houndoom's main weaknes it that it's not one of the fastest things ever, so your goin to be using timid most of the time. but powerful thing an't it.
 
This is almost the same as Iggy[Koopa]'s set. You guys think a like. Anyways I think it works well with Salac Berry.

Timid + Life Orb + 1 Nasty Plot + Flash Fire boosted Overheat:

On max HP, no SpDef Bold Blissey: Damage: 86.13% - 101.26%

Beastly.
 
freshkicks:...............

Anyways back on topic the numbers look pretty nice won't be lasting long though as recoil will kill you off(from Sub and LO).
 
Yeah, it won't last too long, but I think since Houndoom won't be outrunning a ton of stuff anyway, it's pretty important to make as large of a dent as possible in a short amount of time. If you can take out their walls in 2-3 turns, then you're severely crippling their team.
 
I disagree on the outrunning part. Most Base 100s just seem to run +(Sp)Atk. Timid outspeeds them all. Unfortunately its 2 points off Neutral Base 110.
 
Cool idea, but isn't FB much better than overheat? It makes some OHKOs 2HKOs, but when you won't have FF activated most OHKOs will become 2HKOs anyway. And after those 2 hits it won't do anything with overheat.

Isn't there something with sub in the analyses already?
 
I have to agree that Fire Blast looks to be the much better option. I mean if you have a Sub up and get off a plot, its nice to get more than one use out of it. And unlike Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse the power difference here is far less.
 
I agree with the above poster, and I'd like to point out that unless you use HP Fighting over Dark Pulse, fellow Houndooms will wall you.
 
gmax said:
I agree with the above poster, and I'd like to point out that unless you use HP Fighting over Dark Pulse, fellow Houndooms will wall you.
Click to expand...

Bah! I had a part in the Counters section about that, but I lost part of it and it looks like I missed putting it back in.

Shiny Crobat said:
Isn't there something with sub in the analyses already?
Click to expand...

There's only one thing about substitute in the analysis and it just mentions it as an option, but doesn't actually add it anywhere into the set.

Fire Blast could work better in the long run, I agree, but after STAB you're losing 30 power and 5 accuracy. I have missed so damn many times with FB lately that it's driving me crazy.

As far as Tyranitar goes, HP Fighting is a 2HKO anyway. In sand it only does 66.83% - 78.71%, which is actually less than the Flash Fire boosted Overheat. I agree that HP Fighting is a great asset, but from my own experience, the sheer power of the other moves is enough to take down most things...Besides that damn Heatran.
 
the most common switch-ins to Houndoom, i've found, are Blissey, Milotic, Gyarados and Tyranitar. you do a fair job covering Milotic and even Blissey is taken care of here moreso than other Houndooms, but SSTTar still walls you completely. also, without Dark Pulse, you'll get wrecked by G-Dos + Garchomp / Salamence / Dragonite. for this set you really do need both STAB moves to make it work, and unfortunately HP Fight doesnt really fit in anywhere.

otherwise, other than the extreme damage you'll be taking from SS, Stealth Rock weak, Substitute and Life Orb combination, it seems decent enough.

you gotta remember, even with a Timid nature and max Spd EVs, Houndooms Speed is very middling.
 
Flash_gearz said:
You might want to try to max speed. Houndoom's main weaknes it that it's not one of the fastest things ever, so your goin to be using timid most of the time. but powerful thing an't it.
Click to expand...


On the set I run, I have speed maxed right out and run a salac berry. I also use flamethrower to keep the burns coming and because this guy can't afford to miss. I've had this guy sweep whole teams after coming into the best set up bait for him ever- cressie. I've even set up on blissey, lol, after 3 NP's it's still a freaking 2hko!! Also WOW dusknoir is amazing to set up on. Very predictable. I honestly think when handled right this guy isn't some kamikaze that will make a big dent then life orb itself to death. When playing, I usually get 2 NP's and a sub goin before the opponent does crap all. For some reason alot of people don't know what to do when they see a houndoom. 2 NP's, + sub = gg.

One thing thing that has saved me a great deal of times on this set is the flinch from dark pulse. That should not be ignored. It's not as if there are going to be too many houndooms running around as walls anyways. Hp fighting would come in handy, though. CURSE THE ONLY FOUR MOVESLOTS!!!! WE NEED 5!!!
 
Interesting idea. I really dislike Substitute with Life Orb no matter what, I think you'd be better with HP Fighting in that slot. That also lets you use Dark Pulse at the same time!

What sucks is that Houndoom is so slow. Those calculations on Salamence and Garchomp are nice, but they are both faster than it :\
 
Without Substitute you're really going to be taking it up the ass from Garchomp and Infernape. Luckily enough though, most Salamence run neutral Speed which would give Houndoom the OHKO before Mence can do anything. I'll add HP Fighting into the set as an option over Substitute, and I'll do some damage calculations for it a little bit later. Though all we're doing is changing it into the standard set from the analysis <_<;;
 
Substitute is actually imperative on this set. It allows you to set up on things carrying thunderwave and can often buy you a free turn once they realize they've been owned and do a switch. Without sub, houndoom takes it in the teeth from almost everything.

By the way, sandstream has actually helped me sweep with him before. With a couple of subs up (so they broke one and I replaced it), Sstream brought down life until my salac berry activated while I did some nasty plotting. From there it was just a matter of deciding which move I want to kill them with, cause the game was over even before Sand storm killed my doom.
 
Ive have been trying to create a houndoom set that complements my team well for a while now and this one works perfectly. I think, if you want to get the most out of your flashfire boost you would want to have flamethrower instead of overheat. If you are going to switch in, sub to berry or to plot then get two or three attacks out of flamethrower you probably are better of with flamethrower. If you are using life orb over salac berry then you may as well go for overheat because you wont last very long anyway. If stealth rocks are out you would be at 50% after switching in and subbing.

my 2 sentz
 
I can understand the hesitancy to use Overheat, though Flamethrower seems like it would be too weak to make much of a dent in things. Fire Blast is probably the way to go if you don't want Overheat. Lower PP, lower accuracy, but a decent chunk more damage. Does Fire Blast still have 30% burn rate?
 
Loetke said:
Bah! I had a part in the Counters section about that, but I lost part of it and it looks like I missed putting it back in.



There's only one thing about substitute in the analysis and it just mentions it as an option, but doesn't actually add it anywhere into the set.

Fire Blast could work better in the long run, I agree, but after STAB you're losing 30 power and 5 accuracy. I have missed so damn many times with FB lately that it's driving me crazy.

As far as Tyranitar goes, HP Fighting is a 2HKO anyway. In sand it only does 66.83% - 78.71%, which is actually less than the Flash Fire boosted Overheat. I agree that HP Fighting is a great asset, but from my own experience, the sheer power of the other moves is enough to take down most things...Besides that damn Heatran.
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OK, but you missing isn't the accuracy, trust me. 5% doesn't make that much of a difference. And heatran isn't really important IMO, it can't do much besides using earth power.
 
It's a good set, but Ninetales is faster, much tougher AND has Hypnosis, so I think he makes a much better Flash Fire Nasty Plotter.
 
I agree to a point about Ninetails, but he also doesn't have a secondary STAB move to fall back on, then again, he does have Energy Ball.
 
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