ORAS OU AmphyxTogie OTP - Mega Ampharos & NP Togekiss Balance

[Flygonial]

Nothing quite ticks off your average offense player more than a well played Mega Sableye that cockblocks all entry hazards you seek to set-up. While not necessarily the greatest answer, I began to feel Crovekiss Togekiss as a pokemon. A trip CBB’s post on the Togekiss analysis later, I got my EV spread, some usage tips, and an urge to disregard the dex analysis’ EV spread of 252 HP. I’ve seen firsthand the devastation Togekiss can do to fatter teams - often under my own command, but I’ve also seen how effectively just about any electric can potentially shut it down - often with the Togekiss against me. This is where Mega Ampharos came in, and the bedrock for this build was laid.

If I were to be honest though, this team is probably the least solid build I've ever put in an RMT. But that's exactly why I'm putting it out here, tear it apart for all I care.

Zapdos, Mega Manectric, Rotom-W, Raikou, Magnezone, you name it. When healthy, they’ll all stop a mono-attacking NP Togekiss a vast majority of the time. That’s where Mega Ampharos comes in, stopping all of the aforementioned electrics about just as often.

​

There are two things that murder Amphy and Togekiss to varying levels of effectiveness. The one that does so more efficiently happens to be Weavile, the one less so happens to be Bisharp. Defensive Infernape happens to cockblock both of them pretty hard and also added a ‘mon which could pivot into an Ice-type attack.

​

At this point however, the team was still full of quite a few holes. Keldeo could kill all of the first three ‘mons with just the right click of a move, and I had no hazard control outside of Taunt which rarely is sufficient. Defensive Starmie fit the bill, this time going with Reflect Type to ward off Pursuit-trappers and laugh at Ferrothorn.

​

Isn’t it lovely to have a rocks setter than can 2HKO Mega Sableye? Lando-I was capable of such, and fortunately for its other not banned forme, both can perform that feat. Earth Plate (really Soft Sand, but that doesn’t sound threatening) Lando-T is power, not much more needs to be said for this teambuilding process.

​

At this point, I felt like the team could use a blanket check to set-up sweepers as well as a Spike stacker. Who other than Klefki could fill such a role?

Amphy (Ampharos) (M) @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpA / 232 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk​

Let me get something straight - Tornadus-T terrorizes a good amount of my builds - my only switch-ins tend to only last once and crack after that. On the other hand, SpD Mega Ampharos is probably the hardest counter to Torn-T in existence, perhaps Stunfisk being the only other pokemon that could be argued for that spot. The EVs are the standard dex spread - optimized for tackling LO Thundy and Modest Mega ‘Zard-Y. However, as Togekiss is the team’s cleric, I would like opinions on how Focus Blast would fit on Ampharos - Togekiss can’t flinch Ferrothorn and Heatran to death every time. Dragon Pulse is a pretty safe move to fire off if the opponent’s best switch-in is a Lando-T or Garchomp as it 2HKOs the former and whether that is the case for the latter is up to the set it runs. Even if RestTalk might be frustrating, as well as its meh coverage, Ampharos still pulls its weight most matches.

Togie (Togekiss) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost ​

I’ve always liked Togekiss - it’s never been that far up my favorites list but manages to stay relevant enough in it. As far as I’m concerned, that’s reflected in its viability as well. Togekiss is the only pokemon on this team to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Lopunny, acts as the cleric, and the primary win-condition against those fatter builds. The EV spread avoids the aforementioned 2HKO from MLop and the speed outspeeds Jolly Mega T-Tar - it won’t come into use much but I don’t believe the 8 SpD EVs did either. The problem is though, I feel as though its a bit underwhelming in-game, as the opposing team is either too offensively inclined to sweep, or it simply gets overloaded - especially with rocks up. Togekiss definitely has something to bring to the table, but it sadly is probably the weakest link in the team - despite being built around it. At this point, I’m considering Clefable as a replacement, whether this team really needs a cleric, and you all will be the judge of that.

Inferny (Infernape) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 124 SpD / 48 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Slack Off
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
​

Defensive Infernape is a lord. It can eat up the Ice-type moves aimed at Togekiss and Ampharos, and munch on Knock Offs for giggles. The team sort of sets the illusion of being more offensively inclined than it is, as all ‘mons on it can run offensive sets minus Klefki (even if xtra might beg to differ). Infernape is a perpetrator - despite the known existence of the defensive set, people still fall for it. Still, Infernape’s bulk is rather meh, and I’m not sure whether to run Low Kick or go with Close Combat to deal with Mega Lop better, although that’ll definitely compromise its staying power. Taunt and Wisp are vital to its ability to dismantle defensive and offensive ‘mons, while Slack Off is mandatory on such a set.

Starry (Starmie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpA / 4 SpD / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Reflect Type
- Recover ​

There was a time before ORAS came out - where people were speculating that maybe Slowbro would get Rapid Spin due to its mega. If that was true, then this Starmie set would be completely obsolete. This is not the case, or Starmie would have no place on this team. Starmie functions as the spinner, ‘Tran and Hippo killer, and the sole mostly waterproof switch-in to Keldeo. 240 Spe EVs outspeed Serperior - although Starmie most likely won’t be forced to bring it down, and the filler 4 SpD EVs prevent Download Porygon2 from getting its desired boosts. Overall, while Starmie offers very little firepower, it’s difficult to replace.

Landy (Landorus-Therian) @ Soft Sand
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Smack Down
- U-turn
​

Earth Plate (Well, actually Soft Sand but Earth Plate sounds better) Lando-T is second to only LO Exca for the hardest hitting Earthquake in OU. 108 Spe EVs intercepts those speed creeping Jolly T-Tar - most importantly Gliscor, so it can hit it with a Smack Down and 2HKO SpD variants. It functions as a rocks setter, nuke, and pivot all in one - although I’m considering if it should run more speed investment or run SD over U-turn. Ultimately, Lando-T is the primary source of immediate power on the team and I think losing it would be sorely missed. Still, you readers might beg to differ, so tell me if I should run Hippo over it or not.

Klefy (Klefki) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Foul Play​

What do you do when you have too many weaknesses to patch up and need emergency glue to stick your sorry team together? Drop in a Klefki, of course. Klefki is the team’s Spiker, speed control, and one of the only two members that can deal with Mamoswine. The defense EVs prevent Klefki from being 5HKO’d by Mamoswine, and the Sitrus Berry helps it avoid quite a few 2HKOs. Set-up sweepers that would otherwise completely shred the team are paralyzed by Klefki. Still, Klefki desperately fights to hold the team together - even if it’s a symptom of its underlying issues.

Over my entire time on Smogon, I haven’t really been using RMTs for critical feedback so much as team showcases, but I don’t want that to be the case this time. I specifically selected this team to RMT not because it was the closest to a flawless build I could squeeze out, but because it’s deeply flawed and yet, still a kick to use. No member of the team does anything but hold it together, but yet, they still don’t do a good job of it. If you could drop your time for a rate, then it would be deeply appreciated.

Mamoswine: Zero switch-ins, Klefki can get worn down by other members of the opposing team.

Calm Mind Raikou: Literally 6-0s the entire team. It can CM as Ampharos comes in, CM again and take ~25%, CM again and take ~20%, then 2HKO Ampharos and OHKO everything else.

Mega Charizard X: Can wear down Lando by Flare Blitz'ing it on the switch, set-up on Starmie and Infernape. Even if Klefki paralyzes it, Healing Wish support screws me over, and it's also possible for Klefki to be trapped by Mag.

Keldeo: If it bops Starmie with a Specs HP Bug/Electric, then I'm outta luck. It's a rare scenario, but it still exerts notable pressure on my team and its ability to come in on two members - possibly Klefki too if it's RestTalk, doesn't help.

Feraligatr: At +1, it can OHKO Klefki more often than not after rocks, and OHKO Amphy with Ice Punch. Starmie can't touch it - relying on Scald burns to stop sweepers is rarely comfortable. Then if it gets passed a Healing Wish, I'm screwed.

Importable

Amphy (Ampharos) (M) @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpA / 232 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Togie (Togekiss) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Inferny (Infernape) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 124 SpD / 48 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Slack Off
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Starry (Starmie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpA / 4 SpD / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Reflect Type
- Recover

Landy (Landorus-Therian) @ Soft Sand
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Smack Down
- U-turn

Klefy (Klefki) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Foul Play

Suggested Changes

While there are definitely ways to optimize the team, none of them make that significant of a difference. If you want to preserve the build as it is, I would personally recommend adding Focus Blast over Sleep Talk on Ampharos, just making Starmie max/max with 4 SpD, and putting SD over U-turn on Lando-T, but that's only adding more glue onto the mess.

If Lando-T is replaced by Hippowdon, you'd gain a much more reliable answer to 'Zard X, Sand Rush Exca, CM Raikou, at the cost of some firepower. Hippo covers Electrics decently, moreso if Heatran is added on, but I would replace Lando before 'Ape.

Rotom-W could replace the mega slot on top of Mega Ampharos by checking numerous threats to the team - while still taking on Torn-T (less effectively, but still decently). 'Zard Y is a possible replacement for Infernape in this scenario - but if you are replacing Infernape under any circumstances, Play Rough should be run on Klefki. Other megas are still open for use in the freed up mega slot. However, unless the replacement mega compensates, the team will have a considerably worse match-up against 'Zard Y.

If Hippowdon and Heatran take the place of Lando and 'Ape, then Mega Ampharos could get replaced altogether with a 'mon that can deal with Weavile and friends while compensating for the firepower that Lando-T provided.

Mega Scizor is probably the least disruptive replacement, but it lacks immediate power. Mega Aggron might as well as convert the team to semi-stall, but I don't have much experience with it so I can't say whether its an optimal fit or not. Mega Metagross has plenty of immediate power but is pretty disruptive to synergy, can't really switch into Weavile, and creates a playground for Gengar.

Or, you could go for a hard hitting Mega that doesn't check Weavile and replace Togekiss with a physically biased Clefable spread, which is workable against stall.

If you want to keep Mega Amph, then Togekiss could run NP + BP into Agility Mega Ampharos - which still breaks stall effectively. You could forget that and replace Ape with Entei, or run both at the same time if you really want, so that the two can break down respective counters.

Quagsire is another option to deal with 'Zard X and Bisharp even better, but unless you want to convert the team into semi-stall, it shouldn't be your first choice.

I've made an example team for the branch of keeping Mega Ampharos in the team. Be advised though, it won't work as an importable due to slashes though:

Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 16 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 236 Spe or 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid or Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast

Togie (Togekiss) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Baton Pass
- Roost

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Bulldoze
- Extreme Speed

Starry (Starmie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Recover

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD - Avoids 2HKO from LO Thundy, but the standard spread deals with 'Zard X a bit better
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Slack Off

Klefy (Klefki) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Play Rough

If you want to go the minimally invasive route, replacing Lando with Edge Hippo and giving Klefki lefties suffices - still possesses a weakness to Mamo and Gatr, but it's better than what's on currently. Psyshock Starmie can be thrown into the mix for Keldeo - which otherwise shreds through the team with Sub + CM.

Another variant with swapped megas (Keep in mind these don't have to be used, just as examples. BTW, this variant happens to be extremely weak to opposing 'Zard Y):

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (Most would run max/max, but customize as you see fit)
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

Togie (Togekiss) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe (Customize as you wish)
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder Wave
- Will-O-Wisp

Starry (Starmie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Recover

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Slack Off

Klefy (Klefki) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Play Rough

If real, run defensive Mega Aero for 'Zard Y. If not, then there are other options like Mega Latias, 'Zard X even - although they all come with their shortcomings.

 

[Clair]

Ferrothorn > Klefki gives you a really nice defensive core, covering Raikou, M-Ampharos and the Water-typed threats you're weak to, and seems like a much better option off the top of my head. Opens up a slight weakness to Zard-X and a couple other things, so run physically defensive Lando-T to compensate.

Tbh I'm not really sure why M-Ampharos is on this team. It covers Electrics, Torn, and Zard-Y, but doesn't have much other function (and these threats could be compensated for adequately with Hippowdon > Lando-T and Heatran > Infernape, or similar, freeing up the Mega slot). If you want to keep Amph, then you could definitely consider Baton Pass Togekiss into Agility M-Amph, which still breaks stall reasonably effectively. Alternatively, use the standard offensive Amph set, run something like Entei > Infernape, and Hippowdon (or maybe Quagsire - covering both Zard-X and Bisharp, but you don't want to get too passive) instead of Lando-T again. The point here is that M-Amph and Entei (or a similar physical Fire type) both break down bulky Grounds, and tend to switch into each others non-Ground counters easily.

gl dude

 

[Flygonial]

Ferrothorn > Klefki gives you a really nice defensive core, covering Raikou, M-Ampharos and the Water-typed threats you're weak to, and seems like a much better option off the top of my head. Opens up a slight weakness to Zard-X and a couple other things, so run physically defensive Lando-T to compensate.

Tbh I'm not really sure why M-Ampharos is on this team. It covers Electrics, Torn, and Zard-Y, but doesn't have much other function (and these threats could be compensated for adequately with Hippowdon > Lando-T and Heatran > Infernape, or similar, freeing up the Mega slot). If you want to keep Amph, then you could definitely consider Baton Pass Togekiss into Agility M-Amph, which still breaks stall reasonably effectively. Alternatively, use the standard offensive Amph set, run something like Entei > Infernape, and Hippowdon (or maybe Quagsire - covering both Zard-X and Bisharp, but you don't want to get too passive) instead of Lando-T again. The point here is that M-Amph and Entei (or a similar physical Fire type) both break down bulky Grounds, and tend to switch into each others non-Ground counters easily.

gl dude

Thanks for the rate! This team is a pretty sorry mess right now - although that's why I RMT'd it in the first place. I probably would have done worse trying to patch it up myself due to reluctance to make major changes. I've added an extra section to the RMT about possible changes readers can make.

 

[Flygonial]

Bump.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

I'm not really certain if your Landorus-T set is entirely necessary. You already have an answer to Mega Sableye in Togekiss, so I feel like Hippowdon > Landorus-T patches up the weaknesses to Raikou and Mega Charizard X without sacrificing too much regarding effectiveness. Raikou needs quite a few Calm Minds before it can threaten Hippo with HP Ice and Hippo has recovery to be able to come in on Zard-X much more consistently.

From a cursory glance, I'd want to say keep Infernape. Otherwise, Klefki is your only switch-in to Weavile, and Foul Play isn't exactly the best attack against it. However, if you do replace Infernape, Play Rough > Foul Play; Play Rough OHKOes Weavile after Stealth Rock (0 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 228-270 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock), and even without Stealth Rock, one or two rounds of LO recoil will do Weavile in (worst-case scenario, it's in the red and paralyzed) and it would certainly give you room to run something like Heatran or Entei (or maybe some Mega, as you'll see in the next suggestion) over Infernape.

To be honest, I feel like for what you want it to do, M-Ampharos is a poor man's Rotom-W. Rotom-W also handles Tornadus-T and vastly improves your effectiveness vs. Feraligatr (only +1 Superpower even 2HKOes and you just burn it) and Mamoswine (needs Freeze-Dry). This also frees up your Mega slot, so you could maybe run something like Zard-Y > Infernape, but this is looking solely from the perspective of not trying to screw up synergy too much so don't take the Zard-Y suggestion as an absolute, but just from a cursory glance, it'd seem like the best Mega to run if you do replace Ampharos.

Well, I hope I helped. Good luck.

sets

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD - the EVs you provided will also work if you think LO Thundurus becomes too difficult
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge

Klefki @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Play Rough

If you replace M-Ampharos w/ Rotom-W:

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Charizard @ Charizardite Y (Mega recommendation based on cursory glance)
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost / Dragon Pulse

EDIT: If opposing Zard-Y become problematic (if you do take all of my suggestions) you could maybe try something like Latios (if you want the power) or Latias (if you want the bulk) over Starmie. Function-wise, they both still check threats like Keldeo but prevent you from getting totally beat down by Zard-Y (unless you can get a fairly healthy Hippowdon in on it every time, lol)

 

[Ktütverde]

Hey I've a lot of experience with togekiss and I can ensure you hipowdon is a very good partner. Thinking that ampharos is useless is stupid: walling zardY is necessary in a balanced team. Moreover he walls rotom and electrics until they go down because of burns SR ...
Infernape is à solid choice too cuz the best counter to togekiss is bulky megazor, and he walls weavile and sharp.
Try hippo as far as I can see you don't need other big changes^^ edgehippo for pinsir
And lefties klefki to last against latios and kyurem

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Hey I've a lot of experience with togekiss and I can ensure you hipowdon is a very good partner. Thinking that ampharos is useless is stupid: walling zardY is necessary in a balanced team. Moreover he walls rotom and electrics until they go down because of burns SR ...
Infernape is à solid choice too cuz the best counter to togekiss is bulky megazor, and he walls weavile and sharp.
Try hippo as far as I can see you don't need other big changes^^ edgehippo for pinsir
And lefties klefki to last against latios and kyurem

Right, because M-Ampharos is the only Pokemon in existence that does this. Pokemon that can take on Zard-Y and don't burn the Mega slot don't exist. Got it.

Flygonial Even if Hippo > Lando-T is the only 'mon change you make, at least run Psyshock on Starmie somewhere. The lack of ability for what should be your Keldeo switch-in to even handle Keldeo adequately is what contributes to Keldeo threatening your team so badly. As it stands, only Starmie can switch in (Specs Secret Sword 2HKOes M-Ampharos) but it can't do anything back. As far as I can tell, SubCM Keldeo damn near 6-0's this team as it stands and nothing avoids the 2HKO from Specs Keldeo, except for Starmie ~90% of the time (barring HP Electric / Bug in which case you get 2HKOed) but it can't deal any damage back.