Alolan Sandshrew, Sandslash Discussion

DHR-107

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
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Orange Islands
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Sandshrew
Ice/Steel
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Slush Rush
HP: 50
Atk: 75
Def: 90
SpAtk: 10
SpDef: 35
Spe: 40
Level Up

Start - Scratch
Start - Defense Curl
L3 - Bide
L5 - Powder Snow
L7 - Ice Ball
L9 - Rapid Spin
L11 - Fury Cutter
L14 - Metal Claw
L17 - Swift
L20 - Fury Swipes
L23 - Iron Defense
L26 - Slash
L30 - Iron Head
L34 - Gyro Ball
L38 - Swords Dance
L42 - Hail
L46 - Blizzard

TMs

TM01 - Work Up
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM14 - Blizzard
TM17 - Protect
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Leech Life
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Round
TM56 - Fling
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM70 - Aurora Veil
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM75 - Swords Dance
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM79 - Frost Breath
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM81 - X-Scissor
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM100 - Confide

Egg moves

Egg - Flail
Egg - Counter
Egg - Icicle Spear
Egg - Metal Claw
Egg - Crush Claw
Egg - Night Slash
Egg - Icicle Crash
Egg - Endure
Egg - Chip Away
Egg - Curse
Egg - Amnesia

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Sandslash
Ice/Steel
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Slush Rush
HP: 75
Atk: 100
Def: 120
SpAtk: 25
SpDef: 65
Spe: 65
Level Up

Start - Icicle Spear
Start - Icicle Spear
Start - Metal Burst
Start - Icicle Crash
Start - Slash
Start - Defense Curl
Start - Ice Ball
Start - Metal Claw
TMs

TM01 - Work Up
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Leech Life
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Round
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM56 - Fling
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Aurora Veil
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM75 - Swords Dance
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM79 - Frost Breath
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM81 - X-Scissor
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM100 - Confide
Egg moves

Egg - Flail
Egg - Counter
Egg - Icicle Spear
Egg - Metal Claw
Egg - Crush Claw
Egg - Night Slash
Egg - Icicle Crash
Egg - Endure
Egg - Chip Away
Egg - Curse
Egg - Amnesia

New Ability

Slush Rush: Boosts the Pokemon's Speed stat in a hailstorm
 
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Alolan Sandslash has no level-up moves (aside from "start" moves) listed... does this mean it evolves with a stone? Annoyingly, it looks like you need to use either a Heart Scale (or breed) to get a usable Ice STAB on this thing. Something I'll need to keep in mind, as I plan to use this guy on my first playthrough.
 
Darvin said:
Alolan Sandslash has no level-up moves (aside from "start" moves) listed... does this mean it evolves with a stone? Annoyingly, it looks like you need to use either a Heart Scale (or breed) to get a usable Ice STAB on this thing. Something I'll need to keep in mind, as I plan to use this guy on my first playthrough.
Click to expand...

The new ice stone probably
 
Stats have a better distribution that its Kanto form, but its typing is generally much worse.
Steel/Ice is 4x weak to Fighting and to Fire ===> such a waste without a reliable hail setter. The ability can be good with a strong Hail setter (fingers crossed for Alolan Ninetails).
 
Whereever hail is used, this guy will probably go. I mean, his movepool is just good enough (EQ/Icicle Crash/Iron Head/Swords Dance|Leech Life), his stats are ok (the bulk is actually kinda nice for taking one or two hits if he can't sercure a 2hko)

I'd say he's probably RU where I think Hail setters are going to end up. But where hail falls, this guy is a monster.

Weak:Ice/Steel
Weaknesses: Fighting, Fire, Ground
Resistances: Bug, Dragon, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, Psychic
Immunities: Poison

That's a pretty good range of things to come in on, considering ice types in general have such a shitty typing.
 
I'm disappointed that it's not called Snow Drift, but Slush Rush is just the thing I was hoping this would get. The huge double weaknesses and no Ice Shard are unfortunate but Ice with vestigial Ground-type coverage it can still do some serious damage in the Hail provided the opponent doesn't pack Vacuum Wave.

lol special attack, taking lessons from Mega Beedrill I see.
 
Typing is garbage defensively, but it could be a decent user of the new Slush Rush ability? But I heard Beartic also gets this? Is that true?
 
Melons-N-Soda said:
Typing is garbage defensively
Click to expand...

meh... yes and no. You do actually resist a lot (Grass; Bug; Ice; Fairy; Flying etc. Immune of Poison (Salandit not withstanding)). But I won't deny the 4x Fire/Fighting weakness.

Also, Aggron has a similar problem with its typing. Just food for thought.
 
i thought they were going to use the name "skater" over slush rush, since it was an ability that doubled speed in ice in Nobunaga ambition, but well...

is it funny that normal Sandslash gets defense curl+rollout and alolan Sandslash gets defense curl+ice ball x3
 
It will be interesting to see which of the two Hail Sweepers will become the dominant one.

Beartic Pros: Higher Attack stat (130), No 4x weakness (before you think "well it´s not gonna survive anything either way", keep the defensive boost of Aurora Veil in mind), gets Aqua Jet as a form of priority, learns Stone Edge
Beartic Cons: Lower Speed stat (50), Stealth Rock weakness, best Fighting coverage (Superpower) reduces its attack, does not learn Earthquake

Slushslash Pros: Higher Speed stat (65), better physical defence (120), no Stealth Rock weakness, learns Earthquake
Slushslash Cons: Lower Attack stat (100), 4x weakness to Fire and Fighting, no stronger Fighting attack than Brick Break, no stronger Rock attack than Rock Slide
 
Durengardnit said:
It will be interesting to see which of the two Hail Sweepers will become the dominant one.

Beartic Pros: Higher Attack stat (130), No 4x weakness (before you think "well it´s not gonna survive anything either way", keep the defensive boost of Aurora Veil in mind), gets Aqua Jet as a form of priority, learns Stone Edge
Beartic Cons: Lower Speed stat (50), Stealth Rock weakness, best Fighting coverage (Superpower) reduces its attack, does not learn Earthquake

Slushslash Pros: Higher Speed stat (65), better physical defence (120), no Stealth Rock weakness, learns Earthquake
Slushslash Cons: Lower Attack stat (100), 4x weakness to Fire and Fighting, no stronger Fighting attack than Brick Break, no stronger Rock attack than Rock Slide
Click to expand...

I'm curious to see which will be better as well. Between Slush Rush, Aurora Veil, and Alolan Ninetales looking like a powerful Hail setter do you think Hail teams will actually become a thing? Also just found out the z-move variants of all the weather setting moves grant +1 speed as well. Some mons might actually get good use out of that though I can't think of any hail setters who'd want it.
 
It's going to be great for Mono-Ice teams when the SuMo Monotype ladder pops up. As a Rock neutral hazard remover it's going to be the Hail Excadrill, using strong coverage and Slush Rush to apply offensive pressure along with Rapid Spin to save its teammates from Stealth Rock.
 
A-Sandslash suffers from Aggron / Bastiodon syndrome. Great physical bulk wasted by subpar defensive typing. Ice/Steel is probably slightly better than Rock/Steel though still pretty whack defensively. That 20+ defense does nothing when A-Sandslash is weak to EQ and Close Combat. Without factoring Fire moves destroying it. A-Sandy doesn't get priority whatsoever. Ice Shard would have been nice. Even Bullet Punch would be acceptable. Nope, just a slow ass defensive Pokemon with subpar defensive typing. Wonderful job Game Freak.

Even with Slush Rush, 100 attack doesn't cut it. Setting an SD can be difficult due to Sandy's exploitable weaknesses.
 
Look its a ice type with some actual resistances. It still has some serious weaknesses but its not all bad. It will mostly see use on hail teams and its not outclassed by beartic due to more resistances, greater speed and physical bulk and STAB Iron head.
 
I think it's better than the regular Sandslash, but I doubt it'll see more usage than the regular. A shame really. All it needed was one priority move, and it had the typing for two of those (Ice Shard + Bullet Punch). Also, how does Leech Life even help? Seriously Game Freak? Regular Sandslash would've benefited from that more than this one. And it doesn't really fit flavor-wise anyway. So much potential wasted. And to think Alolan Ninetales got Ice Shard, Aurora Veil and Agility, all the things Alolan Sandslash needed...
 
The Alolan Sandshrew/Sandslash take 10/20 from Attack and 5/10 each into Defense and Special Defense, which is good idea; much like what they did with Mega Beedrill by taking points from the offense stat it's not going to use. It also replaced its sandstorm activated Abilities with hail versions including the new Slush Rush.

Complete type change means new movepool, mainly Ground-type moves replaced with Ice- and Steel-type ones (though it can still learn Earthquake via TM). It gets Ice Ball (plus Defense Curl), Iron Head (via Sandshrew), and Icicle Spear/Icicle Crash (Egg Moves and naturally learned by Sandslash) as well as keeping useful moves like Rapid Spin.

With Slush Rush I think Alolan Sandslash will be mostly seen on hail teams much like how normal Sandslash with Sand Rush is seen on sandstorm teams. Otherwise its Speed is in a dead zone and while its defense was increased (and now being part Steel-type) it still does have two quad weaknesses: Fighting and Fire.
 
Joe Career said:
I think it's better than the regular Sandslash, but I doubt it'll see more usage than the regular. A shame really. All it needed was one priority move, and it had the typing for two of those (Ice Shard + Bullet Punch). Also, how does Leech Life even help? Seriously Game Freak? Regular Sandslash would've benefited from that more than this one. And it doesn't really fit flavor-wise anyway. So much potential wasted. And to think Alolan Ninetales got Ice Shard, Aurora Veil and Agility, all the things Alolan Sandslash needed...
Click to expand...

The best use I can think for using Leech Life is Hitting Malamar / Hoopa Unbound for x4 damage. You're going to need Hail up to outspeed Hoopa though. Honestly, Leech is generally pretty useless for non STAB due to Bug being terrible offensively, even more so than Grass.
 
For what it's worth, Alolan Sandslash does have Ice + Ground coverage which is always nifty, and Jolly A-Slash has enough Speed to outrun ScarfChomp. Could be usable, though its usage in higher tiers can be pretty questionable.
 
I just love that he has what sounds like a new Soft Drink as an Ability. It's a shame he isn't faster thought; otherwise Hail Sweeping would be interesting even though still not viable.
 
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