Aggron (OU Analysis)

supermarth64

supermarth64

Here I stand in the light of day
is a Contributor Alumnus
Hurrrrr Aggron strong.

Full OU Analysis.
SubPunch becomes Sub + 3 attacks (hi C_M)

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/Pokémon/aggron

Status: Done.

[Overview]
<p>In the past, Aggron was largely ignored in favor of Rhyperior because he was neither as bulky nor as powerful as his Rock-type cousin. However, with the addition of Head Smash to Aggron's movepool, he can be a real offensive threat. Aggron has so much raw power that many teams will be hard-pressed to sacrifice a teammate in order to deal with him. However, Aggron is plagued with several common weaknesses, and his slow Speed means that he will often have to switch out before he can attack again. Nevertheless, with his many resistances and his sheer power, Aggron can easily punch holes in the opposing team.</p>

[SET]
name: OU Choice Band
move 1: Head Smash
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Aqua Tail
move 4: Ice Punch
item: Choice Band
nature: Jolly
ability: Rock Head
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With the power of Head Smash backed by a Choice Band, Aggron is capable of literally smashing through the opposing team. In fact, Aggron's Choice Band Head Smash is 9% stronger than Groudon's Choice Band Earthquake. The remaining three moves are there for coverage to hit the Pokémon who resist Aggron's Rock-type STAB. Earthquake hits the Steel-type Pokémon, such as Metagross and Jirachi, while Aqua Tail hits Ground-types such as Hippowdon. Ice Punch hits Flygon and Breloom, both of whom can take one Head Smash and retaliate.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>To show the sheer power of Head Smash, here are some calculations against Pokémon who resist Head Smash and Pokémon who are extremely defensive. These calculations assume a Jolly nature.</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Head Smash vs. 12/0 Breloom: 74.2% - 87.5%</li>
<li>Head Smash vs. 0/0 Jirachi: 47.8% - 56.3%</li>
<li>Head Smash vs. 252/220+ Celebi: 59.7% - 70.5%</li>
<li>Head Smash vs. 252/4 Gliscor: 75.7% - 89.3%</li>
<li>Head Smash vs. 252/252+ Suicune: 52.7% - 62.4%</li>
<li>Head Smash vs. 252/176+ Skarmory: 58.1% - 68.9%</li>
<li>Head Smash vs. 252/0 Metagross: 35.7% - 42%</li>
</ul>

<p>The EVs of this set allow for maximum power while outspeeding Pokémon such as 0 Speed Rotom-A, Suicune, Cresselia, and Gyarados. This results in slower stall teams having increased problems taking out Aggron. If more power is wanted, then an Adamant nature can be used with enough Speed EVs to outspeed Skarmory. 164 Speed EVs are required with an Adamant nature to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory, though more may be used to outspeed faster variants of Skarmory. Additionally, Toxic can be used over Ice Punch in order to cripple Pokémon such as Hippowdon and Swampert on the switch-in.</p>

<p>Due to Aggron's three common weaknesses in Ground, Fighting, and Water, teammates who resist these moves are appreciated. Celebi is a great partner for Aggron because it resists all three of the aforementioned types and can also Thunder Wave the opposing Pokémon, compensating for Aggron's low Speed. Gengar is also a good partner because he is immune to Ground- and Fighting-type moves and can also lure in Blissey, whom Aggron can easily come in on. Aggron also resists the Ghost- and Dark-type weaknesses of the aforementioned Pokémon. Sandstorm support is also appreciated to boost Aggron's Special Defense; both Hippowdon and Tyranitar will work. Hippowdon can set up Stealth Rock and tank Flygon's Earthquake, while Tyranitar can also use a Choice Band set to help in wearing down the opposing team. He can also use Flamethrower and Ice Beam to take care of Breloom and Flygon. Because Aggron will be switching in and out a lot, Rapid Spin support is helpful. Starmie is a great choice because it resists Water- and Fighting-type moves, and can break down physical walls with its STAB Hydro Pump.</p>

<p>Aggron has trouble with defensive Pokémon such as Hippowdon, Swampert, and Metagross. Celebi can handle all three with Grass Knot, Leaf Storm, and Earth Power, respectively. After Aggron KOes someone, he can easily be revenge killed by faster Pokémon. Flygon can be handled with Gengar, who is immune to Earthquake, and by Hippowdon, who can tank any hit that Flygon throws at him. Hippowdon can also tank Bronzong and Metagross's hits as well as provide Sandstorm to boost Aggron's Special Defense. Starmie, Heatran, and Shaymin can all be taken care of by specially defensive Zapdos, who can tank their hits and threaten them with its powerful attacks. Zapdos also has good synergy with Aggron.</p>

[SET]
name: OU Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Head Smash
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Ice Punch / Aqua Tail
item: Life Orb
nature: Jolly
ability: Rock Head
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Aggron can run a Rock Polish set in order to make up for his mediocre speed. Unlike Rhyperior, Aggron, after a Rock Polish can outspeed Choice Scarf Heatran and hit with Earthquake and OHKO. Head Smash still does obscene amounts of damage even with only a Life Orb boost, while Earthquake can hit the Steel-type Pokémon who threaten him with super effective hits. Ice Punch is used to KO Gliscor and Breloom, as well as taking down Choice Scarf Flygon should you get more than one Rock Polish boost. Aqua Tail still hits Hippowdon and can 2HKO him if he's below 75% health.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>Aggron can also run an Adamant nature with the same EVs for more power, but will fail to outspeed Choice Scarf Heatran after a Rock Polish. Jolly Rhyperior fails to outspeed positive natured base 130s after a Rock Polish, which is another reason to use Aggron.</p>

<p>As with the Choice Band moveset, Pokémon who resist Aggron's weaknesses are good choices as partners. Celebi is a good partner as always, and can take out bulky Water-type Pokémon who can take a Head Smash, while Gengar also resists Aggron's weaknesses. Because Aggron is fulfilling a setup sweeping role, sandstorm support is more of a necessity to help Aggron take a hit when he has to. Hippowdon is a good partner because he can take Choice Scarf Flygon's Earthquakes and KO with Ice Fang, while Tyranitar can lure in and KO Flygon with Ice Beam. Because of Aggron's decreased damage output, entry hazard support is helpful to assist in his sweep. Roserade is a good partner because he resists Aggron's Fighting- and Water-type weakness and can scare away bulky Water-type Pokémon with Grass Knot or Leaf Storm while setting up Spikes in the process. Skarmory is immune to Aggron's Ground-type weakness and can Roost off any damage that it takes.</p>

<p>Aggron has trouble with Hippowdon, Swampert, and Metagross. Furthermore, he is still outsped by base 100 Choice Scarf users and up at +2 Speed. Hippowdon and Swampert can be taken care of by Roserade and Celebi, while Metagross can be KOed by Celebi's Earth Power. Flygon can be lured in and KOed by Shuca Berry Tyranitar with Ice Beam, while Choice Scarf Gengar and Starmie can both be Pursuited by either Scizor or Tyranitar.</p>

[SET]
name: OU Substitute
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Head Smash
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Ice Punch / Magnet Rise / Aqua Tail
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
ability: Rock Head
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Because Aggron can force many switches with his multiple resistances and strong attacks, he can run a Substitute set to ease prediction and to avoid taking heavy hits. Head Smash is still as powerful as always, but despite this an Adamant nature is suggested because he is not using an item that boosts his power. Earthquake is included to hit Steel-type Pokémon because without it, Aggron cannot get through their defenses. Ice Punch can KO Flygon and Gliscor, while Magnet Rise nullifies most of his checks by creating an immunity to Earthquake. Aqua Tail is there to hit Hippowdon.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>The given EVs allow Aggron to have maximum bulk while retaining maximum power, but you may choose to take EVs out of HP in order to outspeed Skarmory. 164 Speed EVs will outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory.</p>

<p>Aggron appreciates the partners mentioned in the two previous sets, namely Celebi and Gengar for their useful defensive synergy, Hippowdon and Tyranitar for sandstorm support, and Roserade and Skarmory for Spikes support. Furthermore, Celebi can help take down Pokémon who can survive a hit from Aggron, such as Hippowdon, Swampert, and Metagross.</p>

[Team Options]
<p>Aggron really appreciates sandstorm support, as it allows him to be able to survive a Surf from bulky Water-type Pokémon such as Vaporeon and Suicune. Both Hippowdon and Tyranitar are good choices for providing this. Hippowdon can tank the Ground- and Fighting-type moves that Aggron is weak to and can also set up Stealth Rock to ensure several of Aggron's KOs. Tyranitar can run Ice Beam to easily take down Flygon and Gliscor, however it can also attack with Stone Edge to take advantage of the fact that many teams don't carry many Rock-type resistances.</p>

<p>Aggron also appreciates special attackers who can break through the physical tanks whom Aggron cannot harm as much, such as Swampert and Hippowdon. Celebi is a great choice to check both of them because it can scare them off with Grass Knot or Leaf Storm, resists Ground-, Fighting-, and Water-type moves, and can spread Thunder Wave on the opposing team to help with Aggron's low Speed. Gengar is another good choice as he resists Ground- and Fighting-type moves and can strike the opposing Pokémon with Shadow Ball. Aggron also appreciates Spikes support, as with Spikes the opposing team will have a harder time checking Aggron. Roserade is a good choice as he resists Fighting- and Water-type moves and can scare away Water-type Pokémon with the threat of his powerful Leaf Storm, while specially defensive Skarmory can easily tank Surfs and is immune to Ground-type moves.</p>

<p>Pokémon who outspeed Aggron after he has KOed someone are good checks to him, such as Flygon, Starmie, and Gengar. Hippowdon and Gengar can easily take care of Flygon, as neither takes too much damage from Earthquake and U-turn, while specially defensive Zapdos and Blissey can check Starmie and Gengar. Zapdos can also threaten with a STAB Thunderbolt to scare away the likes of Suicune and Vaporeon, and can use Hidden Power Grass to scare away Swampert. Finally, with all the switching in and out that Aggron does, Rapid Spin support is helpful. Starmie is a great choice as it resists Water- and Fighting-type moves, while Aggron resists Starmie's Ghost- and Dark-type weaknesses.</p>

[Optional Changes]
<p>Aggron has the capability of running a defensive set if given sandstorm support, as he can set up Stealth Rock and tank hits due to his many resistances. However, his three weaknesses are extremely common and his low HP means that he won't be as capable of tanking hits as other Pokémon. Metal Burst is a possible choice, as Aggron has the defenses to be able to survive a hit, but usually outright attacking is more reliable and lets Aggron live for a longer time.</p>

<p>Iron Tail is an option because it runs off of Aggron's secondary STAB, but the accuracy is a letdown. Thunder Wave can be helpful for team support, but Aggron can usually KO the opposing Pokémon with Head Smash and the Ground-type Pokémon who resist Head Smash are also immune to Thunder Wave.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Few Pokémon can switch into a Choice Band Head Smash. Hippowdon, Swampert, Metagross, and Bronzong are all examples of Pokémon who can take a Head Smash and retaliate with an Earthquake. After Aggron has KOed something, bulky Water-type Pokémon such as Suicune and Vaporeon can take a hit and KO Aggron with their super effective Surfs. Gliscor, Flygon, Gengar, and Starmie all don't like taking Head Smashes, but they can all outspeed Aggron and KO him with their super effective moves.</p>
 
I would give Magnet Rise some serious consideration in the last spot of the Rock Polish set. It seriously takes away a large number of pokemon that can stop Aggron since Earthquake is so common, yet Close Combat/Brick Break/Focus Punch aren't nearly as common. For example, if you can Magnet Rise as something like Flygon comes in to try and kill you, there's really not a thing it can do to you. Basically, it can make some of his counters into setup fodder, which is very handy.

Also, I don't think you should remove the Substitute set. I like to run Substitute/Magnet Rise/Head Smash/Earthquake. If you have Sandstorm support, it's very easy to come in and set up a Sub with those high defenses and bajillion resistances. As I said with the Rock Polish, taking away one of Aggron's 4x weaks significantly lowers the amount of pokemon that can beat him, and with the huge defense (and special defense with Sandstorm), a lot of pokemon will struggle to break his Subs. I personally prefer Earthquake over Focus Punch in OU because I prefer to do more damage to Jirachi and Metagross, though I suppose that if you keep the set on, Focus Punch would get a slash. SubRise still hits very hard as long as you max Attack and use Adamant, and at least you have some sort of protection if Head Smash misses. At the very least you should give SubRise a test. I'm not completely sure on the EV spread though. When I used Aggron, I maxed out Attack and gave enough Speed to outspeed the standard Skarmory so you can 2HKO them without the Roosting annoyance, dumping the rest in HP.

I believe that would make the moveset:

Aggron @Leftovers
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Rock Head
Adamant nature

- Substitute
- Magnet Rise
- Head Smash
- Earthquake / Focus Punch
 
Bologo said:
I would give Magnet Rise some serious consideration in the last spot of the Rock Polish set. It seriously takes away a large number of pokemon that can stop Aggron since Earthquake is so common, yet Close Combat/Brick Break/Focus Punch aren't nearly as common. For example, if you can Magnet Rise as something like Flygon comes in to try and kill you, there's really not a thing it can do to you. Basically, it can make some of his counters into setup fodder, which is very handy.

Also, I don't think you should remove the Substitute set. I like to run Substitute/Magnet Rise/Head Smash/Earthquake. If you have Sandstorm support, it's very easy to come in and set up a Sub with those high defenses and bajillion resistances. As I said with the Rock Polish, taking away one of Aggron's 4x weaks significantly lowers the amount of pokemon that can beat him, and with the huge defense (and special defense with Sandstorm), a lot of pokemon will struggle to break his Subs. I personally prefer Earthquake over Focus Punch in OU because I prefer to do more damage to Jirachi and Metagross.
Click to expand...

100% Agreed.

I used Aggron in OU and, and it was a huge success.

I ran this moveset: (Note that i had Tyranitar in my team, so i had Sandstorm support)

Aggron @ Chople Berry
252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Rock Head
Jolly
~ Magnet Rise
~ Rock Polish
~ Earthquake/Iron Head
~ Head Smash

Head Smash just hits everything hard even if its resisted, Iron Head can be Aggron's secondary powerful STAB, Magnet Rise prevents those nasty Ground attacks from ruining Aggron's fun.

Earthquake can be used instead of Iron Head for more type coverage against [as Bologo mentioned] Metagross, Jirachi and Steel types, but if you run Iron Head over Earthquake this set becomes weak against Steel types.
 
Oh right I should probably post something about this.

The problem I see with Magnet Rise is that Flygon shouldn't really be switching in as you RP unless it knows your're not CB. CB Head Smash deals a truckload to Flygon even resisted (65.1% - 76.7%, so you're left with 20-30% after SR), so I wouldn't want to switch in Flygon on the RP. Even after a RP, Scarf Flygon still outspeeds you, meaning that you can't Magnet Rise up. I would personally have 2 Rock Polishes than a RP + a Magnet Rise, as the Grounds that resist Head Smash (Swampert, Hippowdon) both can Roar out Aggron anyway. As for Gliscor, Ice Punch would beat him more easily.

As for Chople Berry, it's mostly only useful for Scarf Infernape (rare enough) and for Mach Punch (Chople doesn't let you survive Focus Blast even with sandstorm). It'll get a mention though.

Still have to test Substitute Aggron though.
 
I have used Aggron with some extremely great results, namely because his LO STAB Head Smash wrecks just about everything. I would also mention Rotom-H in good teamates, or burn inflictors, as he actually allows him to take EQs, STAB or non STAB. Just an example, a burnt Jolly Flygon 252 Atk deals (59.57% - 69.50%) with EQ. Allowing him to set up Rock Polish in his face, and late game sweep really well. So yeah burn support I have found to work wonders which him. Also Rotom-H is immune to both his x4 weaknesses.

Also Hippodowon should be part of where it says "tyranitar can set up sand stream"
 
Tyranitar can OHKO Flygon with Ice Beam/Ice Punch, Hippowdon has a lower chance of OHKOing Flygon with Ice Fang.

Max HP and Def Hippowdon [brave nature] vs. ScarfGof using Ice Fang: 90.4% - 107.6% [OHKO with Rocks, probably]
Max Atk and Spe Tyranitar [Jolly nature] vs. ScarfGon using Ice Punch: 134.2% - 158.1%
 
The thing is that Aggron isn't completely dead weight against Flygon because of Teammates. Aggron can Rock Polish multiple times provided it has a satisfactory switch-in (A Dragonite or Flygon stuck in Outrage, or a weak special attack in SandStorm). With Aqua Tail, Aggron's almost weak against healthy Breloom, and Hippowdon's not that big of a threat to be common anyways.

Oh, and I wouldn't pair up Aggron with a Tyranitar. They share too many similar weaknesses to be called viable teammates. Unless there's a policy concerning resistances, Hippowdon gets the SandStorm done and practically gives a check against Lucario and Tyranitar somewhat.
 
Aggron and Tyranitar work well together because they tend to break for one another fairly well. There aren't many Rock resists with recovery, so it's fairly easy for Tyranitar and Aggron to just tag-team and spam powerful Rock-type STAB moves and watch opposing teams fall apart.

Anyway, looks good.

QC APPROVED (1/3)
 
any chance of some calcs? Looks pretty good at the moment, but it would be nice in the analysis to see how much its doing to common stuff as its not commonly used.
 
Some calcs by Justineawe (everything written below is by Justineawe, even the results!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have compiled a list of all of the OU pokemon, and how they fare against a CB Head Smash from Aggron, here are the results.

Red=OHKO
Orange=2HKO
Green=3HKO
Black=4HKO

CB Aggron Calcs
​

Head Smash

Max/Max Aerodactyl: (185.16% - 218.13%)

Max/Max Alakazam: (129.94% - 153.18%)

4 HP Azelf: (164.38% - 193.49%)

with Reflect: (82.19% - 96.92%) With SR and Reflect there’s still a 58.97% chance to OHKO

Max/Max Blissey: (90.90% - 107.14%) OHKO 41.03% of the time, always with SR

248 HP Breloom: (66.87% - 78.64%) Possible OHKO with Spikes and SR, 2HKO otherwise

4 HP: (82.44% - 96.95%) 20.51% to OHKO with SR

Max/Max Bronzong: (34.32% - 40.53%) 3HKO, 2HKO with enough prior damage

252/220 Celebi: (72.28% - 85.40%) Possible OHKO with Spikes and SR, otherwise 2HKO

Max/Max Cresselia: (51.35% - 60.36%) 88.30% to 2HKO with Leftovers

Max/Max Dragonite: (100%+)

Max/Max Dusknoir: (71.43% - 84.01%) 2HKO

Electivire:(100%+)

252/160 Calm Empoleon: (45.16% - 53.23%) Possible 2HKO with SR

252/176 Neutral Flygon: (48.35% - 56.87%) Easy 2HK0 with SR, offensive ones have no chance

Max/Max Forretress: (57.63% - 68.08%) Easy 2HKO

Max HP: (75.71% - 89.27%) Has a 7.69% to be KO’d with SR

Gengar: (100%+)

252/40 Gliscor: (80.79% - 95.20%) 53.85% chance to OHKO with SR, 2HKO otherwise

Max/Max Gyarados: (101.02% - 119.29%) Not even an Intimidate phases Aggron!

252 HP Heatran: (88.08% - 104.15%) Always OHKO with SR

4 HP: (104.94% - 124.07%) OHKO

Heracross: (100%+)

252/168 Hippowdon: (32.14% - 37.86%) Possible 3HKO with SR

Infernape: (100%+)

252 HP Jirachi: (44.31% - 52.23%) 74.88% Chance to 2HKO

Jolteon: (100%+)

252/68 Adamant Kingdra: (98.31% - 116.10%) 87.18% chance to KO, SR finishes it

252 HP Latias: (107.42% - 126.92%) OHKO

4 HP Lucario: (42.55% - 50.00%)Possible 2HKO if it has used LO already, 3HKO otherwise

252 HP Machamp: 56.25% - 66.15%) Easy 2HKO

172 HP Magnezone: (52.30% - 61.51%) Always 2HKO with SR

124/64 Adamant Mamoswine: (102.81% - 121.17%)

252/176 Metagross: (29.67% - 35.16%) Great switch into Aggron, not even a 3HKO

252 HP Metagross: (39.29% - 46.15%) Need Spikes and SR for 2HKO, otherwise 3HKO

Ninjask: (1019.01% - 1201.52%) No chance lol

Porygon-Z: (100%+)

244/184 Rhyperior: (28.47% - 33.80%) 4HKO at best even with SR

252/168 Rotom-A: (78.29% - 92.76%) 33.33% chance to OHKO with SR, 2HKO otherwise

Max/Max Salamence: (100%+)

248 HP Scizor: (100%+)

Max/Max Skarmory: (61.08% - 72.16%) Easy 2HKO

Smeargle: (100%+)

168/120 Neutral Snorlax: (87.78% - 103.73%) Always an OHKO with SR

136/156 Neutral Starmie: (117.29% - 138.31%) OHKO

Max/Max Suicune: (58.17% - 68.56%) Easy 2HKO

Max/Max Swampert: (34.16% - 40.35%) Possible 2HKO with Spikes, otherwise 3HKO

252/120 Neutral Tentacruel: (118.68% - 139.56%) OHKO

Togekiss: (100+)

252 HP Tyranitar: (81.93% - 96.53%) 58.97% chance to OHKO with SR

252 HP Umbreon: (84.01% - 98.98%)74.36% OHKO chance with SR

188/252 Vaporeon: (78.57% - 92.63%) 33.33% OHKO with SR

Weavile: (100+)

248/228 Zapdos: (152.48% - 180.16%) OHKO


Results
-30 of the top 49 most used pokemon are OHKO'd by Head Smash
-14 of them are 2HKO'd
-5 of them are 3HKO'd
-The only 2 that are 4HKO'd, Rhyperior and Metagross, have to run super defensive sets in order to not be 3HKO'd, thus losing offensive power.

Just something I wanted to share, and hopefully convince some people of how powerful the CB set really is!
 
Those calcs above are all with Adamant. The power may justify a mention in additional comments, but I did them all again with Jolly Aggron:

Max/Max Aerodactyl: (168.1% - 198.4%) obviously an OHKO - no change on Adamant

Max/Max Alakazam: (118.5% - 139.5%) not even OU any more and still an OHKO

4 HP Azelf: (150% - 176.7%) Still an OHKO.

with Reflect: don’t see relevance of this. 252hp Azelf under reflect is more likely

Max/Max Blissey: (82.9% - 97.6%) Probable OHKO with SR but no chance without (note difference to Adamant here)

248 HP Breloom: (60.7% - 71.5%) 2HKO

4 HP: (74.8% - 88.2%) Very small chance to OHKO – note difference to adamant

Max/Max Bronzong: (31.1% - 37%) might miss a 3HKO here

252/220 Celebi: (59.7% - 70.5%) 2HKO.

Max/Max Cresselia: (46.6% - 55%) May not 2HKO with SR and leftovers

Max/Max Dragonite: (100%+)

Max/Max Dusknoir: (64.6% - 76.5%) 2HKO

Electivire:(100%+)

252/160 Calm Empoleon: (41.1% - 48.4%) 3HKO

252/176 Neutral Flygon: (44% - 51.9%) Uncommon Flygon but 3HKO likely. (normal Flygon takes 65.1% - 76.7%)

Max/Max Forretress: (52.5% - 61.9%) 2HKO

Max HP: (68.6% - 80.8%) 2HKO

Gengar: (100%+)

252/40 Gliscor: (73.4% - 86.4%) 2HKO

Max/Max Gyarados: (92.9% - 109.6%) Needs SR to ensure OHKO.

252 HP Heatran: (80.7% - 95.3%) roughly 50% chance to OHKO with SR.

4 HP: (96% - 113.3%) likely OHKO made certain by SR

Heracross: (100%+) Every analysis version OHKOed

252/168 Hippowdon: (26.4% - 31.4%) 4HKO

Infernape: (100%+)

252 HP Jirachi: (40.6% - 47.9%) 3HKO

Jolteon: (100%+)

252/68 Adamant Kingdra: (89.3% - 105.4%) Guaranteed OHKO with SR

252 HP Latias: Irrelevant

4 HP Lucario: (38.8% - 45.9%) 3HKO

252 HP Machamp: (51% - 60.2%) 2HKO SR needed to guarantee with leftovers

172 HP Magnezone: (44.4% - 52.8%) Chance to 2HKO with SR but likely 3HKO

124/64 Adamant Mamoswine: Nonexistant mamo spread. Common spreads OHKOed)

252/176 Metagross: (28.3% - 33.5%) Great switch into Aggron, not even a 3HKO

252 HP Metagross: (35.7% - 42%) 3HKO

Ninjask: OHKO

Porygon-Z: (100%+)

244/184 Rhyperior: 4-5HKO lol

252/168 Rotom-A: (78.9% - 93.1%) Chance to OHKO with SR. Calc with adamant is wrong.

Max/Max Salamence: Irrelevant

248 HP Scizor: (95.3% - 112.2%) OHKO with SR.

Max/Max Skarmory: (55.7% - 65.3%) 2HKO

Smeargle: (100%+)

168/120 Neutral Snorlax: (78.1% - 92%) Small chance to OHKO with SR

136/156 Neutral Starmie: OHKO

Max/Max Suicune: (52.7% - 62.4%) 2HKO

Max/Max Swampert: (31.2% - 36.6%) Probable 3HKO, but not guaranteed by any means

252/120 Neutral Tentacruel: OHKO

Togekiss: (100+)

252 HP Tyranitar: (74.5% - 87.9%) 2HKO

252 HP Umbreon: (76.4% - 90.1%) Small chance to OHKO

188/252 Vaporeon: (71.7% - 84.4%) 2HKO

Weavile: (100+)

248/228 Zapdos: OHKO
 
But why would you even run Jolly? In UU, Jolly lets you outspeed defensive Milotic, and that's pretty important but in OU you are far to slow to outspeed anything worthwhile. Furthermore, Adamant still lets you Vaporeon, Skarmory and basically anything in the base 70-80 tier that doesn't run any speed.
It's 199 speed vs 218 speed, and personally that doesn't really make much of difference in OU. (It's that damned Milotic in UU that caused CB gron to run Jolly :/)

Jolly lets you notably outspeed Crocune and Cresselia and imo that is not worth the significant power loss.
 
Aggron in OU is a beast.
However, I have a few comments.
1) I agreed with PK, I would run Adamant.
2) You'll notice the only things (besides Swampert and Hippodon) that CB's Head Smash has problems with are nicely taken out by Magnazone. Every single one is a steel type.
Specs/Steel killer Magnazone makes a phenomenal partner.
 
@Despotar: I have had to edit your post as it was in violation of probably the most common rule of the Quality Control sub-forum. Please refrain from posting official QC stamps in the future. Thank you.
 
I'm guessing the main point of Toxic on the CB set is to cripple Hippowdon, in which case it shouldn't go over Ice Punch, but Aqua Tail, since I'm pretty sure you're using Aqua Tail just for Hippo.
 
In regards to Toxic Of the choice band set,
if you run adamant (Which I highly suggest you do, Jolly doesn't let it outspeed anything notable), you can generally 2HKO Hippo, always with SR, so why use toxic? I don't understand why this is even a option.
 
I'm guessing the main point of Toxic on the CB set is to cripple Hippowdon, in which case it shouldn't go over Ice Punch, but Aqua Tail, since I'm pretty sure you're using Aqua Tail just for Hippo.
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Well it also cripples Swampert, but largely yes. Ice Punch is really just a filler move as Aqua Tail is. Even when poisoned Hippowdon can wall Head Smash, so the next time it comes in you can hopefully finish off the poisoned Hippo with Aqua Tail. It can go over either Ice Punch or Aqua Tail with reasonably little impact really; the moves are largely filler anyway. Even when I know the opponent has a Flygon I wouldn't use Ice Punch; it, like Breloom, takes loads from Head Smash.

And you need spikes to 2HKO Hippo IIRC.

Edit - Hippowdon resists SR, so with SR you have to deal 50% average damage over 2 turns. This probably is a 2HKO therefore. With Jolly as currently listed your chance to 2HKO is very very small.
 
jc104 said:
Well it also cripples Swampert, but largely yes. Ice Punch is really just a filler move as Aqua Tail is. Even when poisoned Hippowdon can wall Head Smash, so the next time it comes in you can hopefully finish off the poisoned Hippo with Aqua Tail. It can go over either Ice Punch or Aqua Tail with reasonably little impact really; the moves are largely filler anyway. Even when I know the opponent has a Flygon I wouldn't use Ice Punch; it, like Breloom it takes loads from Head Smash.

And you need spikes to 2HKO Hippo IIRC.
Click to expand...
Are you sure it needs spikes?
Here's adamant Aqua Tail to standard Hippodon
47.1% - 55.7%
factoring damage from SR in the switch, it starts out with 88%,
then you hit for a average of 51%, it gets 6% with leftovers, it then has 43%, you then outspeed and kill with a second Aqua Tail.
 
Aerodactyl: OHKO. No change.

4 HP Azelf: OHKO. No change.

252 HP Azelf with Reflect: 2HKO. No change.

Max/Max+ Blissey: 100% to KO with Adamant after SR, 66.67% to KO with Jolly after SR. Sandstorm likely to be up due to pairing with ttar. No change.

12 HP Breloom: 2HKO (Adamant get OHKO 2.56% with SR, 15.38% with sandstorm). No change.

236/248+ Breloom: Adamant gets 2HKO 62.13% of the time after SR + SS + 1 turn Poison Heal, Jolly effectively none. Win for Adamant.

Max/80 Bronzong: (31.1% - 37%) Adamant gets 2HKO 3.55% of the time after SR + Leftovers. No effective change.

Max/220+ Celebi: 2HKO. No change.

Max/Max+ Cresselia: Jolly 2HKOes 62% of the time after SS + Leftovers, Adamant 2HKOes 100% of the time. SR should be up, so negligible. No change.

Dragonite: OHKO. No change.

Max/228+ Dusknoir: 2HKO. No change.

Electivire: OHKO. No change.

Min/12 Empoleon: 2HKO. No change.

Max/160 Empoleon: Adamant 2HKOes 26.82% after SR + 1 turn of Leftovers, Jolly 0%. Head Smash accuracy brings that number down even more. Negligible change.

Min/Min Flygon: 2HKO. No change.

Max/176 Flygon: Adamant 2HKOes 90.53% after SR + Leftovers, Jolly 8.02%. 70% are Scarf, 15% are LO, I assume 9% are CB. Rare, but win for Adamant.

Max/Max and Max/Min Forretress: 2HKO. No change.

Gengar: OHKO. No change.

Max/4 Gliscor: Adamant OHKOes 66.67% after SR, Jolly 7.69%. Coinflip due to Sand Veil + accuracy, but win for Adamant.

Max/Max+ Gyarados: OHKO (Jolly needs either SR or SS, not hard to do). No change.

4/Min Heatran: OHKO (Jolly needs SR). No change.

Max/Min Heatran: Jolly OHKOes after SR 46.15%, Adamant 100%. Win for Adamant, but rare Heatran.

Heracross: OHKO. No change.

Max/168+ Hippowdon: Adamant 2HKOes with Aqua Tail 73.11% after SR + 1 turn Leftovers, Jolly 0.33%. Win for Adamant.

Infernape: OHKO. No change.

4/Min Jirachi: Jolly 2HKOes 83.04% w/o SR, 100% with. Adamant 2HKOes 100% w/o. No change.

Max/220+ Jirachi: 3-4HKO, Jirachi can Wish stall for Head Smash miss. No change.

Jolteon: OHKO. No change.

Min/min Kingdra: OHKO. No change.

Min/4 Lucario: 2HKO but he outspeeds. No change.

248/Min Machamp: 2HKO. No change.

Magnezone: 2HKO (Dual screens is 3HKO). No change.

Mamoswine: OHKO. No change.

248/Min Metagross: 3HKO. No change.

Min/Min Metagross: Adamant 2HKOes 100% after SR, Jolly 2HKOes 47.73% after SR. Rare but Adamant win.

Ninjask: OHKO. No change.

Porygon-Z: OHKO. No change.

Min/Min Rhyperior: 3HKO. No change.

Roserade: OHKO. No change.

Max/168+ Rotom-A: Jolly OHKOes 33% after SR, 74.36% after SR + SS. Adamant OHKOes 92.31% after SR. Win for Adamant.

Max/120+ Rotom-A: Jolly OHKOes 58.97% after SR, 100% after SR + SS., Adamant 100%. Jolly gets 2 shots to hit, Adamant has to do switch-in. Jolly win IMO, but debatable.

248/Min Scizor: OHKO (Jolly needs SR). No change.

Max/176+ Skarmory: 2HKO. No change.

Max/Min Skarmory: Adamant gets OHKO 41.03% of the time after SR, Jolly 0%. Adamant win here.

Smeargle: OHKO. No change.

168/120 Snorlax: OHKO with Adamant after SR + SS, 66.67% with Jolly after SR + SS. Win for Adamant.

Starmie: OHKO. No change.

Max/Max+ Suicune: 2HKO. No change.

4/Min Suicune: 79.49% OHKO with Jolly after SR, 100% with SS included. No change.

Max/Max Swampert: 3HKO with both if SR is up. No change.

Max/120 Tentacruel: OHKO. No change.

Togekiss: OHKO. No change.

Min/Min Tyranitar: OHKO (both need SR). No change.

Max/Min Tyranitar: Adamant gets OHKO 58.97% after SR, 100% including SS also. Jolly gets OHKO 2.56% after SR, 41.03% including SS. Win for Adamant.

Max/Min Umbreon: Adamant OHKOes 74.36% after SR, 100% including SS. Jolly OHKOes 15.38% after SR, 53.85% after SS. Win for Adamant.

188/Max+ Vaporeon: 2HKO. No change.

Weavile: OHKO. No change.

248/228+ Zapdos: OHKO. No change.
So the only mons that make a difference are for Adamant:
  • 236/248+ Breloom - Reason why Ice Punch exists.
  • Max/176 Flygon - Rare, but Ice Punch exists.
  • Max/4 Gliscor - Ice Punch and Aqua Tail both check him.
  • Max/Min Heatran - Aqua Tail + Earthquake. Rare.
  • Max/168+ Hippowdon - The main Adamant reason.
  • Min/Min Metagross - Rare. Most Metagross have bulk.
  • Max/168+ Rotom-A - You should probably have SS + SR up.
  • Max/Min Skarmory - Cool.
  • 168/120 Snorlax - Snorlax can only check you if it has EQ, and you get 2 shots anyway. If it KOes you with EQ, it risks being revenged.
  • Max/Min Tyranitar - Boah can't Focus Punch you, Curse has weak Payback.
  • Max/Min Umbreon - This isn't doing anything back except for Wish passing.

Whereas Jolly lets you outspeed RT Gyara, RT Rotom-H, Crocune, and Cresselia. Being able to outspeed some of Stall's key points is great and better than those OHKOes/2HKOes IMO (since they won't be at 100% when they come in anyway most of the time.

I still will make a mention of Adamant with an EV spread to outspeed Skarm for more power + bulk, but it's not gonna be the main option.

mtr: Toxic is mostly just a filler move anyway in case you NEED the poison. I guess I'll make a mention of it over either Aqua Tail or Ice Punch and mention what you can't hit instead.

Also, sorry for being so slow on the SubRise set, I got distracted with other things.
 
QC APPROVED (2/3).

The sheer power alone of this set is enough to warrant use of aggron but...

252 HP Machamp: 56.25% - 66.15%) Easy 2HKO
252/40 Gliscor: (80.79% - 95.20%) 53.85% chance to OHKO with SR, 2HKO otherwise
252 HP Jirachi: (44.31% - 52.23%) 74.88% Chance to 2HKO

this basically shows aggron can pretty much spam head smash with no qualms, something that gives it an advantage over CB tar (no prediction? yes please!). This in conjunction with not being weak to steel and a lack of sandstorm is enough to differentiate itself from tyranitar, especially since I think jirachi; the most common rock-resist (i think?) is 2HKOed and aggron isn't weak to steel. To reitterate what SDS said, this would work great with tyranitar, but I'm sure it would work reasonably well without it anyway.

So yeah, looks good to me!
 
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